3 incheswater under floor boards, home insurance contacted, loss adjuster incoming

50
Found 5th Jan 2016
Just an update to my previous post about finding water under my floor boards.

I have now contacted my insurance who are sending a loss adjuster round next week. This is my first home insurance claim, and they said they normally don't cover for High water tables (the cause of the problem) but with all the storms and High levels of rain we are having I may be covered. Does any one has any tips or pointers as to what I should or shouldn't say. They have sent me a table with a lost of things to claim for.

I am intending on claiming for new carpets(damp smell)

Full downstairs rewire, electrician is going to write me a quote stating the downstairs wiring has been damaged by water.

I am also going to get a quote from a builder to replace the joists etc
And I am also going to get a quote to install a sump pump.

Am I being realistic here or are they likely to tell me to **** off, I have never made an insurance claim of any sort before.

Oh, and will I be able to claim for "broken" electrical devices? My electric meter has those trip out things to protect electrical stuff, but can I still possibly claim, do they need to see evidence of said devices not working?

Thanks ppl
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Original Poster
Update, I checked yesterday and the water had not risen above the hole in the concrete, it was just sitting there.
I have now just checked again after a very heavy night of rain and the water has risen put of the hole and started spreading across the house again.
I live in hull and after the floods a few years ago the water never came into the house but it did come in under the house a couple of inches so we thought we had got away with it...about 6 months later I looked under floor boards and there was a bit of white residue so just incase I phoned the insurance company they sent someone out to look as a result we had to move out for a year while builders moved in and completely gutted the downstairs back to brick removing all wood and plaster total insurance claim was 50 thousand pounds ........phone your insurance company asap
It sounds like someone may have made the hole in the mistaken believe that it would help drain the previous drainage leak.
From what you have described it does sound very much like your water table is very high hence the ingress you are experiencing. I am not a builder but if you are not suffering from any damp or other water damage I would (if it was me) reseal the floor with concrete (research the type of concrete/mix you would need due to the whole being wet) and keep my fingers crossed.
Original Poster
mattinhull

I live in hull and after the floods a few years ago the water never came … I live in hull and after the floods a few years ago the water never came into the house but it did come in under the house a couple of inches so we thought we had got away with it...about 6 months later I looked under floor boards and there was a bit of white residue so just incase I phoned the insurance company they sent someone out to look as a result we had to move out for a year while builders moved in and completely gutted the downstairs back to brick removing all wood and plaster total insurance claim was 50 thousand pounds ........phone your insurance company asap


Thanks for the reply, not want I wanted to hear though lol. I live in the North East and as far as am aware my local area has never had any floods, so I'm hoping I won't have to do anything as drastic as that, ideally I don't want to contact the insurance and I'm hoping for an easier fix, maybe a land drain in the garden or something similar?
Original Poster
Argoj

It sounds like someone may have made the hole in the mistaken believe … It sounds like someone may have made the hole in the mistaken believe that it would help drain the previous drainage leak. From what you have described it does sound very much like your water table is very high hence the ingress you are experiencing. I am not a builder but if you are not suffering from any damp or other water damage I would (if it was me) reseal the floor with concrete (research the type of concrete/mix you would need due to the whole being wet) and keep my fingers crossed.


That's what I am thinking about doing, even if it is just a temporary Fix to stop the water entering my house
First I'd dig a large drainage ditch (soakaway) in the garden to minimise / reduce the risk - dig it fairly deep and fill with gravel.
Then if you have the necessary skills/tools create a drainage network around the edge of your home (similar to following image)
http://www.mddrivewaysandlandscaping.co.uk/images/driveway-drainage.png

Why? You clearly state neighbouring properties suffer bad drainage/flooded gardens and the water level increases after heavy rain.

The drainage ditch (soakaway) will minimise and the additional drainage system will act as a another defence. It won't prevent flooding in severe floods but should put you at ease.

If you had greater threat (close to large potential flood risk) I'd look at digging down into the centre of property of making a small concrete tank with automated pump

I'm no specialist or qualified in this area - it's just what I'd do.
btw I live near a large body of water and although it's been close I've not suffered from flooding thanks to good management, flood defences etc yet the property is built on former marsh meadow flood plain land with an extremely thick clay layer....pffft

Hoping Noah's Ark II - The Austerity Cuts in Flood Defences doesn't get to be filmed in my back yard unless it stars Willa Holland and she needs a nice warm bed
mart321

That's what I am thinking about doing, even if it is just a temporary … That's what I am thinking about doing, even if it is just a temporary Fix to stop the water entering my house


It may be enough but is it worth the risk?
You'd need to reduce the water table to allow the current hole to dry out before sealing properly
I'm not discrediting the comments just pushing more thinking process
Hope you understand

What's the condensation like in your home? When you do finally get rid of the "leak" you'll need a couple of dehumidifiers to help soak up and dry out... if you was local I'd let you borrow mine for a short while as I know what damp can do especially to asthma sufferers
Edited by: "philphil61" 5th Jan 2016
Original Poster
philphil61

First I'd dig a large drainage ditch (soakaway) in the garden to minimise … First I'd dig a large drainage ditch (soakaway) in the garden to minimise / reduce the risk - dig it fairly deep and fill with gravel.Then if you have the necessary skills/tools create a drainage network around the edge of your home (similar to following image)Why? You clearly state neighbouring properties suffer bad drainage/flooded gardens and the water level increases after heavy rain.The drainage ditch (soakaway) will minimise and the additional drainage system will act as a another defence. It won't prevent flooding in severe floods but should put you at ease.If you had greater threat (close to large potential flood risk) I'd look at digging down into the centre of property of making a small concrete tank with automated pumpI'm no specialist or qualified in this area - it's just what I'd do.btw I live near a large body of water and although it's been close I've not suffered from flooding thanks to good management, flood defences etc yet the property is built on former marsh meadow flood plain land with an extremely thick clay layer....pffftHoping Noah's Ark II - The Austerity Cuts in Flood Defences doesn't get to be filmed in my back yard unless it stars Willa Holland and she needs a nice warm bed


Yes this is something I will look at, the Mrs brother mentioned a land drain in the garden also? My entire drive and front is concreted so to do a drainage ditch would probably mean completely doing the drive again, but we were thinking of having it done anyway. I was going to phone the water board and see what they say as I havnt 100% identified the problem yet.
Original Poster
Here's some pics of the hole, it is where there is a course of bricks and there is one brick missing, I think this is to help the air flow though? As there there is no bits of concrete or damage to the bricks either side.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/harker2002/Mobile%20Uploads/20160103_164323.jpg

This is the hole with the water rising

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/harker2002/Mobile%20Uploads/20160103_164248.jpg
Edited by: "mart321" 5th Jan 2016
Dig a hole in the garden to determine at which level the water table might be, if you find that you go down a long way and the hole does not reveal the water table, then that is unlikely to be the cause, try that first to rule things out one at a time.
Dig the hole in line with the hole you have found under the house
mart321

Yes this is something I will look at, the Mrs brother mentioned a land … Yes this is something I will look at, the Mrs brother mentioned a land drain in the garden also? My entire drive and front is concreted so to do a drainage ditch would probably mean completely doing the drive again, but we were thinking of having it done anyway. I was going to phone the water board and see what they say as I havnt 100% identified the problem yet.


The more of the concrete drive you can remove but to still use as a drive, considering your soaked gardens, can then be used as additional soakaways

I'm not criticizing the "concrete jungle" most people do it because it's simple, cheap and easy to maintain but if you've got issues now and the weather gets worse for the next 5/10 years or more (depending on your stance towards global warming or other) maybe a newly designed drive with added drainage and hidden soakaways on top of the other I mentioned wouldn't be that much extra work
Original Poster
Lazyoaf

Dig a hole in the garden to determine at which level the water table … Dig a hole in the garden to determine at which level the water table might be, if you find that you go down a long way and the hole does not reveal the water table, then that is unlikely to be the cause, try that first to rule things out one at a time. Dig the hole in line with the hole you have found under the house


To go in in line with the hole in would have to go about 20 foot up the garden. I may try this, thanks.
Ring your insurance company ASA, you have nothign to lose. That is what you are paying for regardless if is the water table or a broken pipe.
mart321

Yes this is something I will look at, the Mrs brother mentioned a land … Yes this is something I will look at, the Mrs brother mentioned a land drain in the garden also? My entire drive and front is concreted so to do a drainage ditch would probably mean completely doing the drive again, but we were thinking of having it done anyway. I was going to phone the water board and see what they say as I havnt 100% identified the problem yet.



I wouldn't do a soak away if you're garden is soaking you need good drainage to dry it run a herringbone drainage system into one of your down pipes as well as gravel strip along the back of the house where its coming in. This will get the water away quickly especially if there is a lot rain.

google.co.uk/img…wEw

Fill the drainage up to about 50mm below your grass level and turf over leave the gravel strip along the back of the house open
Original Poster
Well my water table isn't high and there is no flood risk but apparently along the back gardens of all the houses in my street there used to be a beck many years ago. Herringbone system looks very efficient but hopefully not too expensive, any ideas how much this would be, it doesn't seem like the ideal time of year for such work also?

Original Poster
Not sure what to do in regards to insurance also, I don't think they would foot the bill for a new driveway with drainage around house and thousands of pounds of landscape gardening with herringbone system etc. Someone on another forum said don't contact the insurance as there will always be a record and it could put off potential buyers In the future?
mart321

Well my water table isn't high and there is no flood risk but apparently … Well my water table isn't high and there is no flood risk but apparently along the back gardens of all the houses in my street there used to be a beck many years ago. Herringbone system looks very efficient but hopefully not too expensive, any ideas how much this would be, it doesn't seem like the ideal time of year for such work also?



​that one in the link is fairly big just to illustrate it cost will vary on access to do it with a small machine and to get materials in. obviously the deeper the track the better but you will need to go by the depth of your outlet. as for cost I could do it myself for under 1k as I do this kind of work but for a company you are looking a fair bit more than that.
Its just a high water table due to poor drainage soil. Most likely it will be clay soil below. So the water will sit on top until it slowly filters through due to high rainfall. Obviously the floor below the floorboards is lower then the outside ground level so the water will slowly find its way into the house and rise up. The gaps in the bricks are left for the purpose to allow air to flow and prevent timber rot and damp.
The best way around this problem if it bothers u is to remove the wooden floor totally and get it concreted . its a very similar problem to cellars which end up flooding due to heavy rainfalls. This is why alot of them are now filled up.
Edited by: "kash2013" 5th Jan 2016
mart321

Not sure what to do in regards to insurance also, I don't think they … Not sure what to do in regards to insurance also, I don't think they would foot the bill for a new driveway with drainage around house and thousands of pounds of landscape gardening with herringbone system etc. Someone on another forum said don't contact the insurance as there will always be a record and it could put off potential buyers In the future?



​what way does your driveway fall? if its into the house just put an aqua channel along the bottom side a and connect it to your drains.
Original Poster
kash2013

Its just a high water table due to poor drainage soil. Most likely it … Its just a high water table due to poor drainage soil. Most likely it will be clay soil below. So the water will sit on top until it slowly filters through due to high rainfall. Obviously the floor below the floorboards is lower then the outside ground level so the water will slowly find its way into the house and rise up. The gaps in the bricks are left for the purpose to allow air to flow and prevent timber rot and damp. The best way around this problem if it bothers u is to remove the wooden follr totally and get it concreted . its a very similar problem to cellars which end up flooding due to heavy rainfalls. This is why alot of them are now filled up.




Yes it's definately clay soil below, one of our trees was uprooted a few weeks back and I replanted it around 2 foot deep, I noticed that the clay soil was like mush, I've only just recalled this

Northumbrian water are coming to have a look anyway free of charge just to check the pipes.
Edited by: "mart321" 5th Jan 2016
Original Poster
RabS1

​that one in the link is fairly big just to illustrate it cost will vary o … ​that one in the link is fairly big just to illustrate it cost will vary on access to do it with a small machine and to get materials in. obviously the deeper the track the better but you will need to go by the depth of your outlet. as for cost I could do it myself for under 1k as I do this kind of work but for a company you are looking a fair bit more than that.



Whereabouts are you based just for future reference? Pm me some details
Original Poster
kash2013

Its just a high water table due to poor drainage soil. Most likely it … Its just a high water table due to poor drainage soil. Most likely it will be clay soil below. So the water will sit on top until it slowly filters through due to high rainfall. Obviously the floor below the floorboards is lower then the outside ground level so the water will slowly find its way into the house and rise up. The gaps in the bricks are left for the purpose to allow air to flow and prevent timber rot and damp. The best way around this problem if it bothers u is to remove the wooden follr totally and get it concreted . its a very similar problem to cellars which end up flooding due to heavy rainfalls. This is why alot of them are now filled up.



To get that done would also involve completed rerouting existing heating pipes and electrical wires would it not? That's why I had the power cut, there is a fair few cables and pipes mingled about running across the concrete floor
If it is a high water table, could you install a float activated bilge/sump pump - so when the level rises the pump automatically turns on.
Otherwise you could be looking at tanking your property which would be extremely expensive.
I would also wonder why your neighbours dont have the same problem - is there a stream or anything nearby which may be partially diverting in heavy rain?
Edited by: "cootuk2" 5th Jan 2016
Original Poster
cootuk2

If it is a high water table, could you install a float activated … If it is a high water table, could you install a float activated bilge/sump pump - so when the level rises the pump automatically turns on. Otherwise you could be looking at tanking your property which would be extremely expensive.I would also wonder why your neighbours dont have the same problem - is there a stream or anything nearby which may be partially diverting in heavy rain?




Me next door neighbours who are attached have a large garage and extension which takes up most of their garden, the rest is paved and there is no grass, they say it still gets waterlogged, neighbours out the back look like they are mostly concreted over. My other next door neighbour, not attached also has bad drainage problems in the garden. I think the only reason I have this deluge on the house is due to the hole in my concrete which is allowing the water to seep up from the ground.

My quickfix solution will probably to bung some concrete over to stop this water before is causes serous damage, before looking at the herringbone drainage system mentioned on here with gravel pit drains around the side and back of the house.
Original Poster
philphil61

It may be enough but is it worth the risk?You'd need to reduce the water … It may be enough but is it worth the risk?You'd need to reduce the water table to allow the current hole to dry out before sealing properly I'm not discrediting the comments just pushing more thinking process Hope you understand What's the condensation like in your home? When you do finally get rid of the "leak" you'll need a couple of dehumidifiers to help soak up and dry out... if you was local I'd let you borrow mine for a short while as I know what damp can do especially to asthma sufferers


The condensation is apparent but not major, thanks for the replies and the offer. Yes it's not an ideal situation as a have a 5 year old and a 3 month old in the house.
mart321

Whereabouts are you based just for future reference? Pm me some details



​i am in Scotland that is just the price I could do it for myself don't know how to pm but feel free to contact me for any advice.
mart321

Me next door neighbours who are attached have a large garage and … Me next door neighbours who are attached have a large garage and extension which takes up most of their garden, the rest is paved and there is no grass, they say it still gets waterlogged, neighbours out the back look like they are mostly concreted over. My other next door neighbour, not attached also has bad drainage problems in the garden. I think the only reason I have this deluge on the house is due to the hole in my concrete which is allowing the water to seep up from the ground. My quickfix solution will probably to bung some concrete over to stop this water before is causes serous damage, before looking at the herringbone drainage system mentioned on here with gravel pit drains around the side and back of the house.



Can i ask is the outside ground level higher than where the water is coming in? If so you can buy tanking to put on that acts as a waterproof barrier. I also wouldn't put soak aways near your house as its quite clear that the ground is holding water not letting it soak away you would only have more water in holes all around. I would only put a soak away in the farthest away part of your garden.
Was none of this picked up in the surveys you presumably had done prior to purchase ?
Original Poster
mrwhitelabel

Was none of this picked up in the surveys you presumably had done prior … Was none of this picked up in the surveys you presumably had done prior to purchase ?


Just the basic survey from the mortgage company, and I wouldn't be surprised if a survey wouldn't pick it up anyway, we bought in summer and they wouldn't normally look under the floorboards would they?
Original Poster
The water board have now been and have ruled out a leak from the pipes.
Original Poster
RabS1

Can i ask is the outside ground level higher than where the water is … Can i ask is the outside ground level higher than where the water is coming in? If so you can buy tanking to put on that acts as a waterproof barrier. I also wouldn't put soak aways near your house as its quite clear that the ground is holding water not letting it soak away you would only have more water in holes all around. I would only put a soak away in the farthest away part of your garden.


Yes the outside ground level is much higher than where the water is coming in, ground level is a "step" if you will, below the floorboards, while the leek is coming from just under the underneath the concrete under floor boards, as in the pictures, which is approx 600 - 700 mm below floorboards. I will have to do some research on tanking as I know nothing about it, but currently your idea of the herringbone system is what I am looking at doing. We wanted the garden drainage sorting anyway and also wanted our drive completely redoing so if we could incorporate the herringbone with a new drive. I've looked at the drive and it's angling back down toward the street, what type of drainage do you think would be best to put at the back and sides of the house to pick up the herringbone?
Edited by: "mart321" 5th Jan 2016
What is a water table? Hope you get it sorted OP.
I'm in the middle of house search and this kind of stuff scares me. Buying a property and then finding stuff wrong with it. Worst nightmare.
mart321

Yes the outside ground level is much higher than where the water is … Yes the outside ground level is much higher than where the water is coming in, ground level is a "step" if you will, below the floorboards, while the leek is coming from just under the underneath the concrete under floor boards, as in the pictures, which is approx 600 - 700 mm below floorboards. I will have to do some research on tanking as I know nothing about it, but currently your idea of the herringbone system is what I am looking at doing. We wanted the garden drainage sorting anyway and also wanted our drive completely redoing so if we could incorporate the herringbone with a new drive. I've looked at the drive and it's angling back down toward the street, what type of drainage do you think would be best to put at the back and sides of the house to pick up the herringbone?



If your drive is running away from the house you don't really need to do anything unless it is sunk in places if it has it is probably down to poor preparation of the drive not drainage. For the herringbone the mainline will run diagonally opposite to your down pipe to the back of your garden with the tails coming off from it. I would just do a single track along the side of the house preferably left open with decorative gravel and tie it into down pipe or one of the tails.

For a quick fix dig a track along the back of the house tank it (really easy paint a primer on and stick the membrane on) line track with teram weed membrane, put a bit of perforated 4" pipe in it and fill it with 20mm gravel and tie it into down pipe this should stop any water getting in and shouldn't cost much more than £100 if you shop about and a bit of hard graft with a digging shovel and wheel barrow.
EN1GMA

What is a water table? Hope you get it sorted OP.


A water table is the level of the height of the water in the ground. If it was to rain and there was a hole in the ground it would fill up to this level. With clay soil water tables are quite high as clay does not let water penetrate into the ground easily. The problem faced with houses are when the ground level outside is higher then the level inside. This causes water to automatically find its way to the lower level and fill the space, like in the ops picture as the ground outside is higher then the level below the floorboards. This is a common problem in cellars below ground which fill up with water due to rainfall and then the water sits there until the ground has absorbed it. This can vary with the amount of rainfall and a point reach the water can reach before escaping to a lower level.
Original Poster
Little update, I sucked all the water out and I'm pretty sure I found the cause. For the past 5 days I've been stuck at work until late, had a check last night and it's worse than before 3 inches now, went and bought a submersible water pump but it was useless, was meant to be good up to 40mm from the floor but it never sucked a drop out.
I'm now either going to admit defeat and phone the home insurance but i have a large excess
Or take a day off work. And try suck it all out with the vacuum and put some cement down.

I'd order one of these, it has IR lights and can see in total darkness, leave it under the floor (hanging down to avoid the water) and see where it comes in. You said you know where but didn't tell us where it was coming from.

gearbest.com/ip-…tml
Edited by: "dcx_badass" 10th Jan 2016
Original Poster
dcx_badass

I'd order one of these, it has IR lights and can see in total darkness, … I'd order one of these, it has IR lights and can see in total darkness, leave it under the floor (hanging down to avoid the water) and see where it comes in. You said you know where but didn't tell us where it was coming from.http://www.gearbest.com/ip-cameras/pp_193393.html



Nice idea but I now know there is a hole the size of a fist in the concrete, I drained it once, it's now filling from here before spilling out.
Original Poster
Dies anyone know where you stand in regards to home insurance when the water is caused by a rising water table.
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