Groups

    4k pc playback issues

    currently running into issues playing a 4k h265 mkv back on a laptop and desktop PC.

    all i get in vlc is a black screen and sound (on both laptop and pc) and on the i7 laptop i get stuttering picture in film and videos app on windows 10 (no picture at all with phenom just sound).

    weak pc is a phenom 955 and laptop is i7 6700hq both using same programs both 8gb ram.

    whats going wrong here? what can i use to play 4k videos files ?

    35 Comments

    Silly question but are you using a 4k screen for playback.

    Usual cause of no vid in VLC when playing x265 is an old version in use. Suggest check VLC is at latest version. If both issues are down to borderline hardware capability, consider using Media Player Classic Home Cinema as it uses less overhead. MPCHC can be bundled with various codecs and is included in the Klite codec pack, examples at codecguide.com/dow…htm
    Or any £25+ recent Android media box will play x265 @ 4k, although mid-£30+ 2GB RAM boxes tend to offer best performance.

    Original Poster

    no 4k screen being used as i didnt think it was mandatory and would get scaled......the video works on the laptop just is crazy choppy.

    i do have an android box i should crack it out i guess. im sure my vlc is up to date but ive seen suggestions of using 3.0 but that is a nightly build i think.

    ill look up that other player now.

    thanks so far guys ill start with these options.

    Argoj

    Silly question but are you using a 4k screen for playback.



    That has no bearing on the playback.

    @nekoangel: Is this 8-bit or 10-bit video and what bit rate are you looking at? HEVC is very demanding so it may be that both CPUs are too slow if this is a high bit rate clip, and Skylake only has hardware decoding for the Main profile, not Main10.

    If you're seeing 90%+ CPU usage then that's a good indication it's lack of processing power.

    It's worth trying different decoders and different programs, the latter in case VLC isn't supporting the latest quicksync decoder (I don't know). I'd avoid installing codecs for formats other than HEVC though, codec packs can often cause problems.

    Original Poster

    its 90 percent plus using vlc on the phenom for sure. im now transferring it to the laptop so i dont have to stream it to see if that helps but moving the 50 odd gb file about wirelessly wasnt my smartest move.

    id need to check the bit rate of the movie as i have no idea.

    edit: its a 10 bit file.
    Edited by: "nekoangel" 5th Jan

    Original Poster

    so i have transferred this to the android box and kodi and vlc play it perfectly..... no idea what is going on with the laptop its way more powerful than the box.

    ill have to look into vlc issues now i think.

    nekoangel

    so i have transferred this to the android box and kodi and vlc play it … so i have transferred this to the android box and kodi and vlc play it perfectly..... no idea what is going on with the laptop its way more powerful than the box.ill have to look into vlc issues now i think.


    Are you sure the Android box isn't hardware decoding it and the Laptop doesn't have that ability so you're using software ?

    Original Poster

    kester76

    Are you sure the Android box isn't hardware decoding it and the Laptop … Are you sure the Android box isn't hardware decoding it and the Laptop doesn't have that ability so you're using software ?



    the box is on default settings and the laptop ive tried on all 3, disabled ,automatic and divx something.
    how can i make the laptop decode?

    the laptop is a dell 7559 with i7 6700hq 8gb ram 960m and 1tb drive. this laptop has a 4k screen model with same specs so i was fairly sure its good enough.

    nekoangel

    the box is on default settings and the laptop ive tried on all 3, … the box is on default settings and the laptop ive tried on all 3, disabled ,automatic and divx something.how can i make the laptop decode?the laptop is a dell 7559 with i7 6700hq 8gb ram 960m and 1tb drive. this laptop has a 4k screen model with same specs so i was fairly sure its good enough.


    uk.hardware.info/rev…ice
    I've only given this a couple of minutes but it looks like MPC-HC supports H.265(HEVC) through DXVA2. I've not sure if the 960M is a cut down version but I assume it's just an underclocked/Volted GTX 960 in a mobile form factor.

    techspot.com/art…ck/

    I used cyberlink powerdvd to playback HEVC on my r9 290 which has no native support for it or didn't last time I checked. I've not noticed much CPU usage but I'm running an FX8350.

    Original Poster

    kester76

    http://www.techspot.com/article/1131-hevc-h256-enconding-playback/I used … http://www.techspot.com/article/1131-hevc-h256-enconding-playback/I used cyberlink powerdvd to playback HEVC on my r9 290 which has no native support for it or didn't last time I checked. I've not noticed much CPU usage but I'm running an FX8350.



    ive gone into the nvidia control panel and it wont let me use the 960m in any media program it defaults to intergrated gpu on cpu and cannot be changed. i think this is part of the problem its trying to use the 530 iris on chip.

    kester76

    https://uk.hardware.info/reviews/5890/2/test-the-geforce-gtx-960-is-the-best-htpc-gpu-of-this-moment-h265-on-the-gtx-960-innpracticeI've only given this a couple of minutes but it looks like MPC-HC supports H.265(HEVC) through DXVA2. I've not sure if the 960M is a cut down version but I assume it's just an underclocked/Volted GTX 960 in a mobile form factor.



    The 960M is a completely different and year older chip, the desktop branding for it would be the GTX 750ti. It only has Purevideo feature set E so it only provides hybrid HEVC Main decoding instead of the pure hardware of feature set F found in the GTX 960 and later.

    I'm not sure about Main10 Hybrid on the GM107 these days, but it wasn't initially supported:
    anandtech.com/sho…evc

    I'd expect the 6700HQ to be powerful enough to handle most bit rates though, if not exactly very battery friendly with no hardware decoder. Have you tried it in Windows Media Player? Assuming you're running Windows 10 then that should play HEVC files.

    Original Poster

    EndlessWaves

    The 960M is a completely different and year older chip, the desktop … The 960M is a completely different and year older chip, the desktop branding for it would be the GTX 750ti. It only has Purevideo feature set E so it only provides hybrid HEVC Main decoding instead of the pure hardware of feature set F found in the GTX 960 and later. I'm not sure about Main10 Hybrid on the GM107 these days, but it wasn't initially supported:http://www.anandtech.com/show/9152/futureproofing-htpcs-for-the-4k-era-hdmi-hdcp-and-hevcI'd expect the 6700HQ to be powerful enough to handle most bit rates though, if not exactly very battery friendly with no hardware decoder. Have you tried it in Windows Media Player? Assuming you're running Windows 10 then that should play HEVC files.



    its choppy video and fuzzy sound. im guessing this is going to be a no go area for everything except my android box?

    nekoangel

    its choppy video and fuzzy sound. im guessing this is going to be a no go … its choppy video and fuzzy sound. im guessing this is going to be a no go area for everything except my android box?



    ​You just need better software codecs or swap out your GPU.

    Original Poster

    kester76

    ​You just need better software codecs or swap out your GPU.



    ​I'll have to change the codecs as its a laptop hah.

    CODECS that are commonly used are FFMPEG and LAV. Its not a case of having better CODECs or using a 4K display. H265 hardware decoding is required and this may not be activated via the installed CODECs. You need to enable them (subject to your equipment supporting hardware decoding of HEVC).

    I am not sure of the settings within VLC but we use LAV CODECs via the K-Lite CODEC pack and within the LAV settings, there are options to enable H265 using DXVA (native or copyback). The CODEC pack also includes FFMPEG CODECs and similar settings are available should you choose FFMPEG over LAV. Playback of 4K Blu Ray content on my server with i3 Haswell CPU is flawless.

    Have a look at pirates-forum.org/Thr…-PC for information on enabling hardware decoding of H265.

    By the way, someone mentioned QuickSync and I can confirm Intel QuickSync is supported by VLC (since VLC use FFMPEG decoders like the vast majority of video players).


    Edited by: "ElliottC" 6th Jan

    Original Poster

    ElliottC

    CODECS that are commonly used are FFMPEG and LAV. Its not a case of … CODECS that are commonly used are FFMPEG and LAV. Its not a case of having better CODECs or using a 4K display. H265 hardware decoding is required and this may not be activated via the installed CODECs. You need to enable them (subject to your equipment supporting hardware decoding of HEVC).I am not sure of the settings within VLC but we use LAV CODECs via the K-Lite CODEC pack and within the LAV settings, there are options to enable H265 using DXVA (native or copyback). The CODEC pack also includes FFMPEG CODECs and similar settings are available should you choose FFMPEG over LAV. Playback of 4K Blu Ray content on my server with i3 Haswell CPU is flawless.Have a look at https://pirates-forum.org/Thread-How-To-Play-HEVC-H-265-Videos-on-your-PC for information on enabling hardware decoding of H265.By the way, someone mentioned QuickSync and I can confirm Intel QuickSync is supported by VLC (since VLC use FFMPEG decoders like the vast majority of video players).



    ​Cheers will look into this tomorrow hopefully.
    This is way more complicated than I expected to be hah

    nekoangel

    ​Cheers will look into this tomorrow hopefully. This is way more c … ​Cheers will look into this tomorrow hopefully. This is way more complicated than I expected to be hah



    Essentially, you need to take heed of the following:

    - H625 (aka HEVC and MPEG H part 2 is usually required to play 4K content).
    - Software decoding of HEVC may be possible on high end CPUs but for low end CPUs like your Android system, hardware decoding is required.
    - A poorly written CODEC has little bearing on performance if it is able to take advantage of H265 hardware decoding because the hardware decoding means that converting the compressed images into video frames is performed using a dedicated decoder either as a separate chip or within the graphics processor.
    - FFMPEG and LAV provide support for systems that support hardware decoding of H265. I believe your Intel based system is one such system. Your Android system supports hardware decoding and fortunately, the hardware decoding option is already enabled by default.
    - If your system supports hardware based decoding but the video is choppy (yet your system is capable of H265 hardware decoding), the problem is that hardware decoding has not been enabled within the CODEC.
    - FFMPEG and LAV use DXVA Copyback, DXVA Native, Intel QuickSync, NVidia CUVID for hardware H265 decoding. You will be asked to choose. I don't know how QuickSync and CUVID is implemented as they are proprietary to the respective developers but DXVA Native sends the decoded frames to a video renderer and is the quickest option. DXVA Copyback will send the decoded frames to the CPU's memory which can be further processed (eg. upscale/downscale with enhancements) before sending the results to the video renderer - hence, DXVA Native is quicker if you don't require further processing enhancements (such as smoothing of edges, conversion to HDR, and so on and so forth).



    Edited by: "ElliottC" 6th Jan

    Original Poster

    That's a lot to take it but I'll register best I can.
    Is there a good reason my Android box just works yet my laptop doesn't?
    I figured turning on hardware decode for the 960m would fix it all but the nvidia software doesn't let it.

    nekoangel

    That's a lot to take it but I'll register best I can. Is there a good … That's a lot to take it but I'll register best I can. Is there a good reason my Android box just works yet my laptop doesn't? I figured turning on hardware decode for the 960m would fix it all but the nvidia software doesn't let it.



    I sent a post earlier but it did not go through HUKD's checks (as I am based in Asia and HUKD always check posts that do not originate from the UK). Therefore, I post again and hopefully, it goes through this time.

    I suspect the NVidia setting is to enable a feature required for H265 hardware decoding (perhaps named NVidia CUVID). Even if you were able to enable this feature, hardware H265 decoding is still required to be enabled within the CODEC settings. The NVidia setting is a feature and the CODEC setting is instructing the CODEC to use that feature.

    Since, you were not able to enable the setting in NVidia's Control Panel (whatever it may be), your NVidia graphics may still support hardware decoding via DXVA (which in my opinion if far superior to nVidia' offering). So, when you find the setting in the CODEC to enable H265 hardware decoding, you need to select one of the DXVA options (preferably DXVA Native).

    Further to the above, your Intel CPU should support DXVA H265 decoding and Intel QuickSync decoding (assuming it possess onboard Intel HD graphics but I can't be bothered to check).

    Regarding enabling the settings by default, that is a good question. The CODECs do not know what hardware you possess, therefore these settings are turned off. There is a myriad of PC hardware configurations that it is not easy for CODEC developers to choose the correct settings. With your Android device, I wonder if the supplier had already preconfigured it for you - I don't know. I don't use Kodi or any other Android video players nor have I developed players on Android so I don't know the situation on that regard.

    nekoangel

    That's a lot to take it but I'll register best I can. Is there a good … That's a lot to take it but I'll register best I can. Is there a good reason my Android box just works yet my laptop doesn't? I figured turning on hardware decode for the 960m would fix it all but the nvidia software doesn't let it.



    The 960M doesn't have hardware decoding for HEVC Main10, neither does your 6700HQ. You've managed to pick up the last generation of both that don't, both their successors do as does your Android box.

    There's a useful set of test files here that'll give you some idea of what bit rates you can play. If your setup is correct then you'll probably find it can cope with much high bit rates on the Main profile (8-bit) files because of your CPU does have a decoder for those.

    jell.yfish.us/

    You haven't said what bit rate the file in question is but for comparison my i3-2120 with no hardware decoding support at all plays the Main10 40Mbps file with around 80% CPU usage.

    Original Poster

    EndlessWaves

    The 960M doesn't have hardware decoding for HEVC Main10, neither does … The 960M doesn't have hardware decoding for HEVC Main10, neither does your 6700HQ. You've managed to pick up the last generation of both that don't, both their successors do as does your Android box.There's a useful set of test files here that'll give you some idea of what bit rates you can play. If your setup is correct then you'll probably find it can cope with much high bit rates on the Main profile (8-bit) files because of your CPU does have a decoder for those.http://jell.yfish.us/You haven't said what bit rate the file in question is but for comparison my i3-2120 with no hardware decoding support at all plays the Main10 40Mbps file with around 80% CPU usage.



    ​It's not the end if the world but I am surprised neither support it as I thought the 6700hq was very new in terms of mobile. Processor.

    I can live without it doing it just figured it would.

    Guess it's lucky I have the android box.

    Original Poster

    EndlessWaves

    The 960M doesn't have hardware decoding for HEVC Main10, neither does … The 960M doesn't have hardware decoding for HEVC Main10, neither does your 6700HQ. You've managed to pick up the last generation of both that don't, both their successors do as does your Android box.There's a useful set of test files here that'll give you some idea of what bit rates you can play. If your setup is correct then you'll probably find it can cope with much high bit rates on the Main profile (8-bit) files because of your CPU does have a decoder for those.http://jell.yfish.us/You haven't said what bit rate the file in question is but for comparison my i3-2120 with no hardware decoding support at all plays the Main10 40Mbps file with around 80% CPU usage.



    im going through the jellyfish videos and so far the hevc 10 main ones ive downloaded play on the laptop ok.
    ill keep testing and see where it stops.

    the file ive been trying to play all alone is hevc 10main @6.1 if that helps in any way

    nekoangel

    im going through the jellyfish videos and so far the hevc 10 main ones … im going through the jellyfish videos and so far the hevc 10 main ones ive downloaded play on the laptop ok.ill keep testing and see where it stops.the file ive been trying to play all alone is hevc 10main @6.1 if that helps in any way



    It tells us that it's a minimum of 60Mbps and could be anything up to a thousand megabits per second.

    For comparison the maximum video bit rate on blu-ray UHD is something like 100Mbps with most discs averaging 60-70Mbps.

    If it's substantially higher than that then it may be intended as a transfer file for video editing or torture test demo rather than a file to be played in real time.


    Original Poster

    EndlessWaves

    It tells us that it's a minimum of 60Mbps and could be anything up to a … It tells us that it's a minimum of 60Mbps and could be anything up to a thousand megabits per second.For comparison the maximum video bit rate on blu-ray UHD is something like 100Mbps with most discs averaging 60-70Mbps.If it's substantially higher than that then it may be intended as a transfer file for video editing or torture test demo rather than a file to be played in real time.



    ​Well i tested more and 250 mbps jelly didn't play. I'm guessing I can play 4k up to a certain mbps? And that this file I have is just to much? Could I then convert it?

    If you can play a 200Mbps Main10 file back fine then it sounds like your setup is probably fine and the file you're trying to play is either encoded at a ludicrously high bit rate or uses some more niche feature that's more demanding.

    You can certainly re-encode at a lower bit rate using something like handbrake. As mentioned above blu-ray quality would be about 60-70Mbps while the likes of Netflix use around 20Mbps.

    Original Poster

    EndlessWaves

    If you can play a 200Mbps Main10 file back fine then it sounds like your … If you can play a 200Mbps Main10 file back fine then it sounds like your setup is probably fine and the file you're trying to play is either encoded at a ludicrously high bit rate or uses some more niche feature that's more demanding. You can certainly re-encode at a lower bit rate using something like handbrake. As mentioned above blu-ray quality would be about 60-70Mbps while the likes of Netflix use around 20Mbps.



    ​I've found exactly where it struggles and as you said it's hevc 10bit.

    It plays the UHD jelly file that is 4k 120mbps h264 but no higher.

    I emailed nvidia and you would laugh at there replies. They don't even understand the file types codecs nor none of what we have discussed.

    I guess I could re encode it to h264 if that's even possible but I'm thinking I'll just stick to 1080p if this is what happens.

    I'm more than happy with Netflix quality as some of their programmes look surprisingly good quality.

    Original Poster

    The other thing I'll have to ask is can you get 8bit 4k files or can you covert 10bit to 8 bit?

    nekoangel

    It plays the UHD jelly file that is 4k 120mbps h264 but no higher.



    You said you were going through the Main10 files.

    H.264 support and playback is entirely separate so you need to find out which HEVC bit rates it can handle. Will it play the 90Mbps HEVC Main10 file fine for example? What about the 40Mbps one?

    nekoangel

    I guess I could re encode it to h264 if that's even possible but I'm … I guess I could re encode it to h264 if that's even possible but I'm thinking I'll just stick to 1080p if this is what happens. I'm more than happy with Netflix quality as some of their programmes look surprisingly good quality.



    The resolution has nothing to do with it, other than the fact that more picture data needs higher bit rates for equivalent quality. It's the HEVC video encoding and you'd have exactly the same issue if it was 1080p.

    You could convert it to 8-bit H.264 but unless playback power consumption matters (dedicated hardware is lower power than CPU decoding) I would just stick to HEVC Main10 but go for a more sensible bitrate.

    Original Poster

    nekoangel

    It plays the UHD jelly file that is 4k 120mbps h264 but no higher.

    nekoangel

    I guess I could re encode it to h264 if that's even possible but I'm … I guess I could re encode it to h264 if that's even possible but I'm thinking I'll just stick to 1080p if this is what happens. I'm more than happy with Netflix quality as some of their programmes look surprisingly good quality.



    ​Yeah sorry forgot to mention I went through all the main 10 and tested the 4k h264 just in case. Main10 is a clear no go for me.

    90 hevc file also stutters.

    Id love to use hevc at all but seems every bit rate and version stutters.

    I think im stuck with h264

    nekoangel

    ​Yeah sorry forgot to mention I went through all the main 10 and tested t … ​Yeah sorry forgot to mention I went through all the main 10 and tested the 4k h264 just in case. Main10 is a clear no go for me. 90 hevc file also stutters.Id love to use hevc at all but seems every bit rate and version stutters. I think im stuck with h264



    You havn't enabled hardware decoding of HEVC/H265 as suggested. Main10 may be an issue with your hardware (as it is not currently well supported) but 8 bits per sample H265 should be handled with ease on your Intel platform.

    To check hardware decoding capabilities:-

    - Choose a site that allows you to download DXVA checker without separate download managers - I don't trust sites that use separate download managers to download an app. You can try dxva-checker.en.lo4d.com/
    - After download, install and run DXVA checker and observe the HEVC entries.

    To check the encoded format of your video files:

    - Install and run MediaInfo - again avoid websites that insist on you installing a download manager.
    - Observe the video encoded parameters to determine the number of bits per sample (8 or 10)
    Edited by: "ElliottC" 8th Jan

    nekoangel

    ​Yeah sorry forgot to mention I went through all the main 10 and tested t … ​Yeah sorry forgot to mention I went through all the main 10 and tested the 4k h264 just in case. Main10 is a clear no go for me.



    You're giving rather mixed signals here. Do any of the Main10 files work? If not then you've got a configuration issue.

    If the lower bit rates work fine and it's only the 40, 60, 90 or something that stutter then that's what you'd expect from your hardware support.

    EndlessWaves

    You're giving rather mixed signals here. Do any of the Main10 files work? … You're giving rather mixed signals here. Do any of the Main10 files work? If not then you've got a configuration issue.If the lower bit rates work fine and it's only the 40, 60, 90 or something that stutter then that's what you'd expect from your hardware support.



    I am also confused too. My understanding is that all H265 encoded files are troublesome since Post #30 states all video files encoded in HEVC are not producing the desired results. But, alas, Post #23 states that HEVC Main10 files are playing correctly.

    Original Poster


    I will double check my work once I'm back at my laptop.
    I'll download all the Main10 files I'm missing and test one by one.

    I really appreciate all the help here and I'm definantly learning new things. Sorry my newness to this is making it confusing.

    Original Poster

    so hopefully i dont make this more confusing for you.

    main 10 works at 3,10,20,40,60

    main 10 90 and above all stutter

    110 hevc main work

    120 h264 uhd works
    Post a comment
    Avatar
    @
      Text
      Top Discussions
      1. Hifi Speaker cable choice?33
      2. flamedeer66
      3. Help O2 wont repair my sony experia xz929
      4. Recommend a free reminder app1416

      See more discussions