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    8 years for murder!

    Banned
    Leon Elcock, 15 at the time, and Hamza Lyzai, then 14, ambushed frail pensioner Ekram Haque as he left evening prayers at a mosque during the holy month of Ramadan.

    The brutes smashed 67-year-old Mr Haque to the ground — the impact of his head hitting the pavement leaving him with fatal brain damage.

    Read more: thesun.co.uk/sol…tml

    36 Comments

    messed up

    Original Poster Banned

    If somebody got 8 years for murdering my dad.

    I would be absolutely gutted.

    Banned

    8 years for manslaughter. Seems about right.

    Banned

    The sentence was so short because they were under age and it wouldn't have been classed as murder as those idiots were going around 'happy slapping'.

    But even given that the sentence should be more

    It's not even 8 years each it's 8 between the pair of them

    Judge Stephens caged Elcock in a detention centre for four-and-half years … Judge Stephens caged Elcock in a detention centre for four-and-half years and Lyzai for three-and-a-half years — though they are likely to be out next year on licence having already spent 325 days on remand.



    4.5 years for manslaughter and 4 counts of assualt seems a tad lenient.

    Banned

    OP - it was manslaughter, not murder. They're different things.

    Banned

    DLM

    If somebody got 8 years for murdering my dad.I would be absolutely gutted.



    What a bizarre comment. Personally I'd probably push my guttedness towards the dad-murder bit.

    Banned

    dungavel

    It's not even 8 years each it's 8 between the pair of them4.5 years for … It's not even 8 years each it's 8 between the pair of them4.5 years for manslaughter and 4 counts of assualt seems a tad lenient.



    It is lenient but then a lot of sentences do seem to be these days.

    The kids are bad eggs, there's no doubting that but they didn't intend on killing the guy. Difficult to get a case like this right with all the factors involved.

    Sad

    vibeone

    What a bizarre comment. Personally I'd probably push my guttedness … What a bizarre comment. Personally I'd probably push my guttedness towards the dad-murder bit.



    Perhaps DLM is a she and as we all know women can multi-task. Hence, can feel gutted about her dad dying and the killers not getting harsh enough sentences.

    Banned

    dungavel

    Perhaps DLM is a she



    Well... there were rumours...

    master_chief

    [It is lenient but then a lot of sentences do seem to be these days.The … [It is lenient but then a lot of sentences do seem to be these days.The kids are bad eggs, there's no doubting that but they didn't intend on killing the guy. Difficult to get a case like this right with all the factors involved.



    If your main source of entertainment is going around assaulting pensioners then sooner or later there is a good chance your going to kill one. I understand that they didn't think that assaulting elderly individuals could lead to someone getting killed, but we shoudln't be overly protecting ignorant and violent idiots because they never had the foresight to think about what their actions may lead to.

    master_chief

    8 years for manslaughter. Seems about right.


    To you, maybe.
    master_chief

    The kids are bad eggs, there's no doubting that but they didn't intend on … The kids are bad eggs, there's no doubting that but they didn't intend on killing the guy.


    Yeah, just slap them. Just a bit of boisterousness.
    dungavel

    Perhaps DLM is a she and as we all know women can multi-task. Hence, can … Perhaps DLM is a she and as we all know women can multi-task. Hence, can feel gutted about her dad dying and the killers not getting harsh enough sentences.


    Ha ha! It;s a riot this thread innit?

    The thing is, newspapers are very quick to report on the crime itself and the victim impact statements, but very rarely cover the mitigation in any sort of meaningful detail. Which is why these stories provoke such a reaction from the general public. The Judge takes into account the mitigation when sentencing, which ultimately leads to members of the public branding sentences as 'lenient' and such when they quite literally only know half the story.

    8 years for murder in any form is no way near enough. I think the thing the angers me more is proportion wise the years you get for drug or theft related crimes (in the UK) are not much of a step down down murder, and as much as i dont like complementing the U.S, the jail times they give there are much more proportionate.

    Bring back the old ways, sending undisiplined teens to the army so they can be taught some manners and be in a controlled environment.

    m27try

    8 years for murder in any form is no way near enough.

    This wasn't murder. The difference between murder and manslaughter is significant.

    m27try

    8 years for murder in any form is no way near enough. I think the thing … 8 years for murder in any form is no way near enough. I think the thing the angers me more is proportion wise the years you get for drug or theft related crimes (in the UK) are not much of a step down down murder, and as much as i dont like complementing the U.S, the jail times they give there are much more proportionate.Bring back the old ways, sending undisiplined teens to the army so they can be taught some manners and be in a controlled environment.



    I maybe would of agreed but knowing someone who went to jail for murdering their partner and yet the police had no evidence against them and it went on the circumstantial i.e argument with partner then walked out on them same night as they died therefore the police said they murdered them then pretended they walked out despite witnesses saying there was someone in the house a few times the week the person was missing and the door being locked from the inside with keys in(and considering it was a 2nd floor flat there was no way the partner could of climbed out a window and they would of been noticed)

    On the chance they did do it, it would of been a crime of passion or a moment of weakness that they blocked out, you cant justify a murder but not every murder is done in a way intended to be cruel or heartless and doesnt affect the person.

    This person is now barely in their 30s and pretty much bald and often tries to commit suicide as they lost everything including their 1 year old child and looks about 50 with the remaining hair grey etc!

    Crazy Jamie

    This wasn't murder. The difference between murder and manslaughter is … This wasn't murder. The difference between murder and manslaughter is significant.



    ...you mean the difference is a Technicality !

    Banned

    Celticsun

    ...you mean the difference is a Technicality !



    No, I think they know what they meant. Do you?

    FilthAndFurry

    No, I think they know what they meant. Do you?



    No the difference between murder and manslaughter in a court appears to be a simple technicality. In this case although they caused the man to fall and hit his head they didn't physically slam his head into the ground. So although the effect was the same, because of this simple 'Technicality' they receive a lean sentence
    Edited by: "Celticsun" 26th Jul 2010

    Banned

    Celticsun

    No the difference between murder and manslaughter in a court appears to … No the difference between murder and manslaughter in a court appears to be a simple technicality. In this case although they caused the man to fall and hit his head they didn't physically slam his head into the ground. So although the effect was the same, because of this simple 'Technicality' they receive a lean sentence



    The 'technicality' you seem to be referring to is intent.

    ryouga

    I maybe would of agreed but knowing someone who went to jail for … I maybe would of agreed but knowing someone who went to jail for murdering their partner and yet the police had no evidence against them and it went on the circumstantial i.e argument with partner then walked out on them same night as they died therefore the police said they murdered them then pretended they walked out despite witnesses saying there was someone in the house a few times the week the person was missing and the door being locked from the inside with keys in(and considering it was a 2nd floor flat there was no way the partner could of climbed out a window and they would of been noticed)On the chance they did do it, it would of been a crime of passion or a moment of weakness that they blocked out, you cant justify a murder but not every murder is done in a way intended to be cruel or heartless and doesnt affect the person.This person is now barely in their 30s and pretty much bald and often tries to commit suicide as they lost everything including their 1 year old child and looks about 50 with the remaining hair grey etc!



    i guess how many years they put on murder on manslaughter should be dependent on the circumstances, but 8 years is a joke!!!, if i could put a bet on them commiting another serious crime within 2 years of them being released, i would seriously and realistically put £500 on it.

    Again, regrettably talking about the American system; but the same crime in US (and considering they were frequently commiting crimes and beating the elderly of old people) would have got them atleast double the time.

    m27try

    i guess how many years they put on murder on manslaughter should be … i guess how many years they put on murder on manslaughter should be dependent on the circumstances, but 8 years is a joke!!!, if i could put a bet on them commiting another serious crime within 2 years of them being released, i would seriously and realistically put £500 on it.Again, regrettably talking about the American system; but the same crime in US (and considering they were frequently commiting crimes and beating the elderly of old people) would have got them atleast double the time.



    4.5 years not 8.

    FilthAndFurry

    The 'technicality' you seem to be referring to is intent.



    True, and the lines are often blurred between what the definition of intent is. The boys intent was to harm, how do you define harm? Manslaughter just seems so black and white in these cases there is no inbetween.

    i think they will enjoy prison (& im not saying that in a sarcastic way), ive heard people actually break into prison to take advantage of the cheap drugs + 3 free meals a day, chusti!.
    Edited by: "m27try" 26th Jul 2010

    It's murder, how you can call that manslaughter is **** unbelievable.

    Banned

    Wotwot123

    It's murder, how you can call that manslaughter is **** unbelievable.



    its manslaughter.

    Banned

    Wotwot123

    It's murder, how you can call that manslaughter is **** unbelievable.



    From what I've read, it sounds understandable.

    Celticsun

    True, and the lines are often blurred between what the definition of … True, and the lines are often blurred between what the definition of intent is. The boys intent was to harm, how do you define harm? Manslaughter just seems so black and white in these cases there is no inbetween.

    I don't entirely see your reason for raising that, but harm is just physical or psychological damage/injury. You hit the nail on the head that the intent was to harm. The distinction is that the intention was not to kill, nor was the act one that could be deemed reckless as to whether it could kill someone. It was actually very unfortunate that the victim died here at all, as even a hard slap is so unlikely to kill someone under ordinary circumstances. But whilst this is a serious crime, it is not a murder.

    wotwot123

    It's murder, how you can call that manslaughter is **** unbelievable.

    Are you suggesting that they intended to kill him? Because that is the difference between murder and manslaughter.

    Celticsun

    True, and the lines are often blurred between what the definition of … True, and the lines are often blurred between what the definition of intent is. The boys intent was to harm, how do you define harm? Manslaughter just seems so black and white in these cases there is no inbetween.



    Intent to harm and intent to kill are completely different.
    Don't get me wrong, I think they are scum for what they did, and deserve a bigger prison sentence, but the fact is that they committed manslaughter, not murder. Unless of course you can prove that they meant to kill him with a happy slap.

    Banned

    master_chief

    It is lenient but then a lot of sentences do seem to be these days.The … It is lenient but then a lot of sentences do seem to be these days.The kids are bad eggs, there's no doubting that but they didn't intend on killing the guy. Difficult to get a case like this right with all the factors involved.



    No it isn't, can you show many cases where children have been convicted of manslaughter and got more? This is actually slightly more than I expected them to get

    Disgusting sentence, let's hope they feel some remourse for what they have done. There is no justice in this Country

    It should be legal to shoot people who 'happy slap'.

    /thread.

    Banned

    colinsunderland

    No it isn't, can you show many cases where children have been convicted … No it isn't, can you show many cases where children have been convicted of manslaughter and got more? This is actually slightly more than I expected them to get



    *sighs

    Banned

    love to happy slap them...............with the claw end of a hammer...scum!
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