Groups

    9 years after the government proposed to force single mothers to put the father on the birth certificate..

    Banned
    ..It still hasn't been done, and is still affecting thousands of men trying to fight to get their name put down.

    Why would someone not want their child to know who their father is? to ruin their lives and enshroud their origins in mystery just because Mum and Dad had a little argument?

    Oh and let's not forget she will still want financial support though!

    This topic really bothers me.

    115 Comments

    *birth certificate

    I'm sure many women feel the same way as you MSB. Let's not alienate all of them.

    Hardly the place to be fighting about it, maybe discussions with your MP would be more appropriate.
    As for the law as was brought in I'm pretty sure people said it would be unenforceable and so it appears to be.

    Original Poster Banned

    RossD89

    *birth certificateI'm sure many women feel the same way as you MSB. Let's … *birth certificateI'm sure many women feel the same way as you MSB. Let's not alienate all of them.



    Blimey! didn't mean to write bitch! must have jumped ahead of myself!

    No Ross, this isn't aimed at all women at all, far from it. There are more good than bad. However, the bad are doing bad out of spite most of the time and this is what I hate.

    Original Poster Banned

    Cozworth806

    Hardly the place to be fighting about it, maybe discussions with your MP … Hardly the place to be fighting about it, maybe discussions with your MP would be more appropriate.As for the law as was brought in I'm pretty sure people said it would be unenforceable and so it appears to be.



    Nope! you pay a fine! get's taken from your source of income! that would deter most!

    just because Mum and Dad had a little argument?

    Oh and let's not forget she will still want financial support though!


    Lot of assumptions there.

    OP seems to have a problem with women, but there are many abusive men that women might want to protect themselves and their child from. Equally, not all women want financial support even if the man has a duty to provide it.

    Situations like this always seem far more complex than some want to admit.

    This is something that really bothers me that women can play God with their kids and their dads lives. Whether the dad is on the birth certificate or not. Scorned women or women in a new relationship who think that suddenly cutting contact is acceptable because suddenly it doesn't suit. So no contact and still demanding ESA and 'extras' too. Absolutely ridiculous.

    Original Poster Banned

    HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

    just because Mum and Dad had a little argument?Oh and let's not forget … just because Mum and Dad had a little argument?Oh and let's not forget she will still want financial support though!Lot of assumptions there. OP seems to have a problem with women, but there are many abusive men that women might want to protect themselves and their child from. Equally, not all women want financial support even if the man has a duty to provide it.Situations like this always seem far more complex than some want to admit.



    You seem to have personality disorder!

    Just waiting for sidekick Ron to pop up X)

    A man who is violent to his partner to the point that the police are involved can and often is still allowed unmonitored access to any children from that relationship. Thats one reason i can think of not to want them on the birth certificate. The police don't really care until someone gets killed or kids go missing

    Original Poster Banned

    KGorman

    This is something that really bothers me that women can play God with … This is something that really bothers me that women can play God with their kids and their dads lives. Whether the dad is on the birth certificate or not. Scorned women or women in a new relationship who think that suddenly cutting contact is acceptable because suddenly it doesn't suit. So no contact and still demanding ESA and 'extras' too. Absolutely ridiculous.



    Agree,it makes me extremely sad. I understand the view that if there has been violence he shouldn't be entitled to be on there, I even disagree with that. At the end of the day, even Hitlers son had a right to know who his dad was. I don't think human right's get any more basic than knowing your parents.

    Original Poster Banned

    Error440

    A man who is violent to his partner to the point that the police are … A man who is violent to his partner to the point that the police are involved can and often is still allowed unmonitored access to any children from that relationship. Thats one reason i can think of not to want them on the birth certificate. The police don't really care until someone gets killed or kids go missing



    Is the kid not more likely to go missing by restricting the fathers rights?

    KGorman

    This is something that really bothers me that women can play God with … This is something that really bothers me that women can play God with their kids and their dads lives. Whether the dad is on the birth certificate or not. Scorned women or women in a new relationship who think that suddenly cutting contact is acceptable because suddenly it doesn't suit. So no contact and still demanding ESA and 'extras' too. Absolutely ridiculous.



    If your not on the birth certificate no one can demand anything, you are not a named carer you do not have parental responsibility and what does having kids to do with ESA thats incapacity benefit.

    Error440

    A man who is violent to his partner to the point that the police are … A man who is violent to his partner to the point that the police are involved can and often is still allowed unmonitored access to any children from that relationship. Thats one reason i can think of not to want them on the birth certificate. The police don't really care until someone gets killed or kids go missing



    ​Whether a guy is a waste of space or not kids still deserve to know who their dads are. Not putting the dads name on the birth certificate doesn't help the kids at all.

    MrScotchBonnet

    Is the kid not more likely to go missing by restricting the fathers … Is the kid not more likely to go missing by restricting the fathers rights?



    Depends doesn't it, if the father has no parental responsibility they can't demand access so it would be a case of kidnapping from school or something if the mother has denied all access. Sometimes access is only demanded out of spite anyway, most abusers are control freaks and never want to "lose" to the enemy\victim aso will do whatever they can think of to keep control.

    Error440

    If your not on the birth certificate no one can demand anything, you are … If your not on the birth certificate no one can demand anything, you are not a named carer you do not have parental responsibility and what does having kids to do with ESA thats incapacity benefit.



    ​I think we all know that I meant CSA.. and I did state whether or not the father was on the birth certificate.

    I'm sure there are a minority of women who unfairly and manipulatively abuse their "power" in law as the mother. However, there are also a minority of men who don't deserve to be on the birth certificate. Abusiveness or violence I can see could easily lead a mother to wish to protect her children from such a man. Keeping him off the birth certificate would seem entirely reasonable in that scenario. Situations aren't as clear cut and straightforward as they might initially appear. I agree, law needs to be changed to reflect an attempted equality for both parents. Equally a lot of people could help by growing up and not using their children as bargaining chips in their immature dealings with each other.

    KGorman

    ​Whether a guy is a waste of space or not kids still deserve to know who t … ​Whether a guy is a waste of space or not kids still deserve to know who their dads are. Not putting the dads name on the birth certificate doesn't help the kids at all.



    It is a legal thing, there's nothing stopping the kid knowing dads name but being named on a birth certificate carries with it more then that

    KGorman

    ​I think we all know that I meant CSA.. and I did state whether or not t … ​I think we all know that I meant CSA.. and I did state whether or not the father was on the birth certificate.



    CSA doesn't exist anymore its CM, yes existing cases are still called CS if they started out as such years ago, but its CM now and the CSA is now the CMS
    Edited by: "Segata-Sanshiro" 16th Feb

    Error440

    Depends doesn't it, if the father has no parental responsibility they … Depends doesn't it, if the father has no parental responsibility they can't demand access so it would be a case of kidnapping from school or something if the mother has denied all access. Sometimes access is only demanded out of spite anyway, most abusers are control freaks and never want to "lose" to the enemy\victim aso will do whatever they can think of to keep control.



    ​But most dads aren't the big bad wolf who abuse their ex partner. Who want to keep a tight grip of control over their ex. They just want contact with their kids and many, but not all women, don't want to grant that. Either because the dad doesn't want to be in a relationship with the mum or because I doesn't suit them. This then reflects that it's the mum with the control issues..

    Error440

    CSA doesn't exist anymore its CM



    ​You are very pedantic.. We all know what I'm alluding to.

    Error440

    It is a legal thing, there's nothing stopping the kid knowing dads name … It is a legal thing, there's nothing stopping the kid knowing dads name but being named on a birth certificate carries with it more then that



    ​If they get to know their dads name then the dad should be on the birth certificate. It's hardly been an immaculate conception.

    KGorman

    ​If they get to know their dads name then the dad should be on the birth c … ​If they get to know their dads name then the dad should be on the birth certificate. It's hardly been an immaculate conception.



    You're over simplifying a LEGAL matter. And you seem vey out dated and misinformed. Maybe do some reading and considering before commenting.

    KGorman

    ​But most dads aren't the big bad wolf who abuse their ex partner. Who w … ​But most dads aren't the big bad wolf who abuse their ex partner. Who want to keep a tight grip of control over their ex. They just want contact with their kids and many, but not all women, don't want to grant that. Either because the dad doesn't want to be in a relationship with the mum or because I doesn't suit them. This then reflects that it's the mum with the control issues..



    And how many kids dont have dads name on th birth certificate, what percentage every year and it can also be the case that they just don't know who it is

    KGorman

    ​Whether a guy is a waste of space or not kids still deserve to know who t … ​Whether a guy is a waste of space or not kids still deserve to know who their dads are. Not putting the dads name on the birth certificate doesn't help the kids at all.



    It's a tough one. Being a father isn't just about creating a child, it's about being a responsible adult and not all men are capable of that.

    If a woman thinks that for the child's best interests the father isn't around then we need to acknowledge that.

    But what happens is that a lot of men with women issues choose to paint all women as evil, manipulative villains.

    KGorman

    ​You are very pedantic.. We all know what I'm alluding to.



    Being upto date is pedantic is it.

    Error440

    And how many kids dont have dads name on th birth certificate, what … And how many kids dont have dads name on th birth certificate, what percentage every year and it can also be the case that they just don't know who it is



    ​Not knowing who the dad is one thing. Being deliberately spiteful is another.

    MrScotchBonnet

    Agree,it makes me extremely sad. I understand the view that if there has … Agree,it makes me extremely sad. I understand the view that if there has been violence he shouldn't be entitled to be on there, I even disagree with that. At the end of the day, even Hitlers son had a right to know who his dad was. I don't think human right's get any more basic than knowing your parents.



    Hitler didn't have any children


    Original Poster Banned

    deeky

    Hitler didn't have any children



    Had no idea, was just a good example I could think of.

    Probably for the best, don't want little Hitlers running around!

    HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

    It's a tough one. Being a father isn't just about creating a child, it's … It's a tough one. Being a father isn't just about creating a child, it's about being a responsible adult and not all men are capable of that.If a woman thinks that for the child's best interests the father isn't around then we need to acknowledge that. But what happens is that a lot of men with women issues choose to paint all women as evil, manipulative villains.



    ​I understand that some men are complete wastes of space and don't deserve to see their kids. But anyone can be hurtful when they've been hurt. Not all men can be good dads, putting them on the birth certificate is surely a good start to getting them to stand up to their responsibilities. I agree too that some men make it to always be the woman's fault. But not putting the dad on the birth certificate purely out of spite is truly terrible!

    The fact is first and foremost a birth certificate is a legal document of responsibility, if someone isnt trustable as a parent they should not be put on it because that may cause years of hassle blighting the other parents life and the knock on effect to the children of that.

    Dead beats should be fighting for their right not to be named as that also makes them expected to pay Cm weather they like it or not, child maintenance is now part of law.

    ​No, being up to date is a good thing. But you knew what I meant..

    Error440

    The fact is first and foremost a birth certificate is a legal document of … The fact is first and foremost a birth certificate is a legal document of responsibility, if someone isnt trustable as a parent they should not be put on it because that may cause years of hassle blighting the other parents life and the knock on effect to the children of that.Dead beats should be fighting for their right not to be named as that also makes them expected to pay Cm weather they like it or not, child maintenance is now part of law.



    1. I don't think "trustable" is a word. Trustworthy is though. 2. Who decides who gets to go on the birth certificate? The whole point is, law assumes the mother has the entitlement and the father doesn't. This is inequality enshrined in law. Ontop of which, there are just as many terrible mothers out there as there are terrible fathers. So who decides?

    KGorman

    ​I understand that some men are complete wastes of space and don't d … ​I understand that some men are complete wastes of space and don't deserve to see their kids. But anyone can be hurtful when they've been hurt. Not all men can be good dads, putting them on the birth certificate is surely a good start to getting them to stand up to their responsibilities. I agree too that some men make it to always be the woman's fault. But not putting the dad on the birth certificate purely out of spite is truly terrible!



    Not all men can be lifeguards, why don't we put them in charge of a swimming pool for an afternoon to get them to stand up to the responsibility.

    I understand that there are some terrible women out there but again, being a father isn't a right it's a responsibility. If men aren't capable of that, and we probably all know men like that, then I can understand the argument for not putting them on the certificate.

    Error440

    The fact is first and foremost a birth certificate is a legal document of … The fact is first and foremost a birth certificate is a legal document of responsibility, if someone isnt trustable as a parent they should not be put on it because that may cause years of hassle blighting the other parents life and the knock on effect to the children of that.Dead beats should be fighting for their right not to be named as that also makes them expected to pay Cm weather they like it or not, child maintenance is now part of law.



    If that were the case there would be many children with no names on the birth certificate!

    Maybe we should have a conceived certificate instead?

    deeky

    Hitler didn't have any children


    Didn't he have a ball problem?

    I've known some disgusting women who use their children as weapons against men. Bet the Guardian doesn't write a story about that.

    HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

    Not all men can be lifeguards, why don't we put them in charge of a … Not all men can be lifeguards, why don't we put them in charge of a swimming pool for an afternoon to get them to stand up to the responsibility.I understand that there are some terrible women out there but again, being a father isn't a right it's a responsibility. If men aren't capable of that, and we probably all know men like that, then I can understand the argument for not putting them on the certificate.



    ​maybe you should not go swimming if the lifeguards are unqualified.

    rodders443

    I've known some disgusting women who use their children as weapons … I've known some disgusting women who use their children as weapons against men. Bet the Guardian doesn't write a story about that.



    I've known some men who are paint themselves as the victims when the mother of their children keeps them away for the best interests of their child.

    MrScotchBonnet

    Why would someone not want their child to know who their father is?


    Maybe the Father was a wrong 'un?

    Do you know what psychology teaches? It teaches that there's no smoke without fire, that if you look at two people or a family of people and one person is on edge, fidgety, emotionally distressed etc (or several people) and one person stands out as "in control" very focused and often charming. Thats the one to be suspicious of.

    Its called masking and they often cry wolf shouting that they are a victim but not express any of the traits looked out for that shows victimhood, i.e no signs of any actual distress or shame, i.e reluctance i don't mean being a battered wife is anything to be ashamed of but peoples pride often makes them feel shame or that they are stupid for letting it happen
    Edited by: "Segata-Sanshiro" 16th Feb

    HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

    I've known some men who are paint themselves as the victims when the … I've known some men who are paint themselves as the victims when the mother of their children keeps them away for the best interests of their child.



    I've known women who have said" if I find out he has had an affair I'll make sure he never see's the kids again" or even better, I know a woman who has a son to a man whom he thinks he is father but he isn't, I know, she told me that.

    Truly disgusting and shouldn't allowed. Also if only men had the choice to keep unfit mothers away from their children too, but the legal system is sexist in that way.
    Post a comment
    Avatar
    @
      Text
      Top Discussions
      1. Magazine competitions - Issue 39 @ tvchoicemagazine.co.uk55
      2. Win 1 of 3 x £1000 Selfridges vouchers with Virgin Trains109
      3. Win a Free minion usb stick1010
      4. totalev.com comp - win an electric car2121

      See more discussions