A moral dilemma?

A madman who has threatened to explode several bombs in crowded areas has been apprehended. Unfortunately, he has already planted the bombs and they are scheduled to go off in a short time. It is possible that hundreds of people may die. The authorities cannot make him divulge the location of the bombs by conventional methods. He refuses to say anything and requests a lawyer to protect his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination. In exasperation, some high level official suggests torture. This would be illegal, of course, but the official thinks that it is nevertheless the right thing to do in this desperate situation. Do you agree? If you do, would it also be morally justifiable to torture the mad bombers innocent wife if that is the only way to make him talk? Why?

94 Comments

its not moraly right its blackmail and torture. end of, but i would lol

Banned

yes i agree .... in one hand ur saving all these peoples lives by torturing the 2 ppl
but in the other hand they do have humane rights

is the crowded area a rough housing estate ? or Oxford St on a Saturday afternoon

need all of the info my friend before I can decide

I Could Make Him Talk Without Hurting His Wife Nuf Said

Why the wife, they can torture him:whistling:

choc1969;5857735

is the crowded area a rough housing estate ? or Oxford St on a Saturday … is the crowded area a rough housing estate ? or Oxford St on a Saturday afternoonneed all of the info my friend before I can decide



:lol:

Banned

Marina;5857743

Why the wife, they can torture him:whistling:




but would it not get more to him emotionally to tortue some one he loves and that is close to him

choc1969;5857735

is the crowded area a rough housing estate ? or Oxford St on a Saturday … is the crowded area a rough housing estate ? or Oxford St on a Saturday afternoonneed all of the info my friend before I can decide



it shouldn't matter what the area is - the fact is innocent people could die.
If he is a terrorist then he is prepared to dish out the violence so torture away - if he can dish it out then he can take it as well. Bringing the wife/children etc into it would be the last resort for me but if it were to save hundreds of lifes it would be done.

You can't justify removing individuals' human rights for the greater good..... that is the excuse any terrorist group uses.

Didn't they pose this question to some high-up government people who said they would torture?

choc1969;5857735

is the crowded area a rough housing estate ? or Oxford St on a Saturday … is the crowded area a rough housing estate ? or Oxford St on a Saturday afternoonneed all of the info my friend before I can decide


:w00t:

toni15500;5857756

but would it not get more to him emotionally to tortue some one he loves … but would it not get more to him emotionally to tortue some one he loves and that is close to him


If he's planning to kill so many, I doubt if he would be humane enough to love his wife:p

Banned

StudentJo;5857761

You can't justify removing individuals' human rights for the greater … You can't justify removing individuals' human rights for the greater good..... that is the excuse any terrorist group uses.Didn't they pose this question to some high-up government people who said they would torture?



The ticking time bomb scenario is not new. It got a lot of exposure since Guantanemo opened and we started questioning what 'torture' actually was. It's a staple of ethics classes.

toni15500;5857756

but would it not get more to him emotionally to tortue some one he loves … but would it not get more to him emotionally to tortue some one he loves and that is close to him



But he's mad.

Banned

Marina;5857779

If he's planning to kill so many, I doubt if he'd love his wife:p



true !

Surely the human rights of the many innocent people he could potentially kill are more valuable than the 1 or 2 withholding the information?

Banned

Shengis;5857787

But he's mad.



yeah true

You say the wife is innocent you if she knows information is she not aiding and abetting?
Or are you saying torture her as a way to get the the mad man?

bellabonkers;5857796

You say the wife is innocent you if she knows information is she not … You say the wife is innocent you if she knows information is she not aiding and abetting?Or are you saying torture her as a way to get the the mad man?



torture her to get to the madman

Does no one have some miraculous truth drug that could be slipped into his food/drink???

lol...too much James Bond.

micoo;5857814

torture her to get to the madman


Thats mad isn't it?:)

bellabonkers;5857817

Does no one have some miraculous truth drug that could be slipped into … Does no one have some miraculous truth drug that could be slipped into his food/drink???lol...too much James Bond.



go all casino royale tortue scene, tht would get him talking

Marina;5857824

Thats mad isn't it?:)



but to save the lives of hudreds

different situation here, lets say you are in a hostage situation terroist says to you kill 2 or i will kill 200, what do you do :?

Xb0xGuru;5857791

Surely the human rights of the many innocent people he could potentially … Surely the human rights of the many innocent people he could potentially kill are more valuable than the 1 or 2 withholding the information?



Most terrorists justify their actions like that... well if it kills 20 people and saves a whole nation...

you cant just torture who you want, this isnt 24.

I wouldn't torture him or the wife. For a start it probably wouldn't achieve anything if he is as mad as it would appear and information gained under torture isn't 100% reliable anyway.

Secondly once you start justifying torture then were would it eventually stop, torturing people who just happen to a differing view from those in power. For a short term gain that may or may not save a few lives you'd be going down a road that could lead to something far worse than a few car bombs going off.

StudentJo;5857854

Most terrorists justify their actions like that... well if it kills 20 … Most terrorists justify their actions like that... well if it kills 20 people and saves a whole nation...



so you would let hundres die cos u didnt think it was right to torture 2 :?

ants97;5857865

I wouldn't torture him or the wife. For a start it probably wouldn't … I wouldn't torture him or the wife. For a start it probably wouldn't achieve anything if he is as mad as it would appear and information gained under torture isn't 100% reliable anyway.Secondly once you start justifying torture then were would it eventually stop, torturing people who just happen to a differing view from those in power. For a short term gain that may or may not save a few lives you'd be going down a road that could lead to something far worse than a few car bombs going off.



everyone has a weakness, my justification would be torure 2 to savve 200 = good choice

rossg91;5857757

it shouldn't matter what the area is - the fact is innocent people could … it shouldn't matter what the area is - the fact is innocent people could die.If he is a terrorist then he is prepared to dish out the violence so torture away - if he can dish it out then he can take it as well. Bringing the wife/children etc into it would be the last resort for me but if it were to save hundreds of lifes it would be done.



my morals say it does matter lol

:whistling:

Banned

micoo;5857872

so you would let hundres die cos u didnt think it was right to torture 2 … so you would let hundres die cos u didnt think it was right to torture 2 :?



It's about values and morality. If you sacrifice your values then what is it you ultimately end up saving?

Plus testimony from torture is notoriously unreliable.

micoo;5857840

but to save the lives of hudredsdifferent situation here, lets say you … but to save the lives of hudredsdifferent situation here, lets say you are in a hostage situation terroist says to you kill 2 or i will kill 200, what do you do :?


I think I'll torture him first to see if he talks,:-D if that doesn't work, I'll threaten to kill his wife and other loved ones.

FilthAndFurry;5857889

It's about values and morality. If you sacrifice your values then what is … It's about values and morality. If you sacrifice your values then what is it you ultimately end up saving?Plus testimony from torture is notoriously unreliable.



hundreds of lifes

micoo;5857872

so you would let hundres die cos u didnt think it was right to torture 2 … so you would let hundres die cos u didnt think it was right to torture 2 :?



I would concentrate my efforts on locating the bombs the best way I could. If you start condoning torture you open up a can of worms. Morals are sometimes worth sticking by even if it does mean you suffer for them.

What is your view OP?

What would you do?

StudentJo;5857911

I would concentrate my efforts on locating the bombs the best way I … I would concentrate my efforts on locating the bombs the best way I could. If you start condoning torture you open up a can of worms. Morals are sometimes worth sticking by even if it does mean you suffer for them.



but the bombs are scheduled to go off in a short time

lets say this happens, you torture him he tells you what to do, he lies, the bombs go off, hundreds die, which would have happened anyway if you hadnt tortured him, you go back to the crippled terrorist (if hes not crippled you didnt torture hm very well) and kill him, tht way the people who would have died are dead and youve killeda terrorist at the smae time

if someone handed me a gun and said kill tht guy or i will kill 50 i would shoot the guy without hesitation, whether its morraly right or wrong ultimately more people live which is better

Banned

Yeah, I'd torture thought I wouldn't really call it that. I personally think it's the right thing to do.

bellabonkers;5857935

What is your view OP?What would you do?


Think he is in a dilemma:p

Banned

micoo;5857897

hundreds of lifes



And that's what the debate is about - are values more important than lives in the long term.

If you sacrifice everything you're trying to defend, what are you left with?

micoo;5857941

but the bombs are scheduled to go off in a short timelets say this … but the bombs are scheduled to go off in a short timelets say this happens, you torture him he tells you what to do, he lies, the bombs go off, hundreds die, which would have happened anyway if you hadnt tortured him, you go back to the crippled terrorist (if hes not crippled you didnt torture hm very well) and kill him, tht way the people who would have died are dead and youve killeda terrorist at the smae timeif someone handed me a gun and said kill tht guy or i will kill 50 i would shoot the guy without hesitation, whether its morraly right or wrong ultimately more people live which is better



I'm staying clear of you!

micoo;5857941

but the bombs are scheduled to go off in a short timelets say this … but the bombs are scheduled to go off in a short timelets say this happens, you torture him he tells you what to do, he lies, the bombs go off, hundreds die, which would have happened anyway if you hadnt tortured him, you go back to the crippled terrorist (if hes not crippled you didnt torture hm very well) and kill him, tht way the people who would have died are dead and youve killeda terrorist at the smae timeif someone handed me a gun and said kill tht guy or i will kill 50 i would shoot the guy without hesitation, whether its morraly right or wrong ultimately more people live which is better



I don't see the benefit of the torture in the situation you have described.

Seriously, if someone tells you to kill someone or they will kill 50, why on earth would they keep their word?

FilthAndFurry;5857962

And that's what the debate is about - are values more important than … And that's what the debate is about - are values more important than lives in the long term.If you sacrifice everything you're trying to defend, what are you left with?



Shame the American government doesn't get that
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