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    Acid

    I'm seeing a number of acid attacks reported in this country in recent times.
    I was told there aren't any restrictions on buying the stuff (I might be wrong).
    Unlike knives, I cannot think of any genuine reason for a member of the public to purchase acid for domestic or personal use.

    Should the sales of acid be banned to the public?

    Top comments

    If you attack someone with a corrosive substance you are trying to mark or scar them for life, the attacker should be given a life sentence.

    A particularly cowardly form of assault, with devastating and long-lasting effects on the victims. Stupid, sometimes drunken individuals with access to acid is a terrible combination. As with all life-changing 'weapons' - all measures possible should be taken to restrict availability.

    Damn, I came in expecting a thread on the 90's rave scene!

    hope everyone is enjoying the lovely sunny Sunday
    63 Comments

    A particularly cowardly form of assault, with devastating and long-lasting effects on the victims. Stupid, sometimes drunken individuals with access to acid is a terrible combination. As with all life-changing 'weapons' - all measures possible should be taken to restrict availability.

    If you attack someone with a corrosive substance you are trying to mark or scar them for life, the attacker should be given a life sentence.

    [quote=shadey12]If you attack someone with a corrosive substance you are trying to mark or scar them for life, the attacker should be given a life sentence by doing the same thing to them (_;)

    It's sad that we have to take such action and the attackers will find other things that may have to be restricted in the future. I,e petrol, If they threw petrol on someone and lit them the consequences might be similar or even worse.

    I do think acid should be restricted.

    summerof76

    [quote=shadey12]If you attack someone with a corrosive substance you are … [quote=shadey12]If you attack someone with a corrosive substance you are trying to mark or scar them for life, the attacker should be given a life sentence by doing the same thing to them (_;)


    Inb4 eye for an eye is bad and makes us just as bad as them!.

    hope everyone is enjoying the lovely sunny Sunday

    shauneco

    Inb4 eye for an eye is bad and makes us just as bad as them!.


    Instead of putting them in prison using taxpayers money to keep them in a life of luxury, they should have the same punishment dealt out.

    shauneco

    Inb4 eye for an eye is bad and makes us just as bad as them!.



    It's interesting that the "eye for an eye" / "hand for an hand" sentence was never literally carried out. After researching this some time ago, it seems that the actually phrase is lost in translation. I'm of the opinion that it was an idiom that simply means that the penalty must fit the crime. If I'm correct, then no one should object to the criminal being severely punished - an actual life behind bars for murder for instance.
    Sadly, because of do-gooders and liberals, the perpetrator gets a light sentence while the victims are physically and emotionally scared today.

    Scums, cost us tax payers buckets of cash to pick up the pieces and to treat the acid victims, medics, nurse, hospital admin, skin graft, plastic surgeon, out of work unemployment benefit, sickness benefit, psychiatrist, police, court admin, judge, social worker. Moreover, the victims' family are secondary victims, impact of loss of income, loss of job, unable to go out...
    I would finger in the air each victim on average costs us tax payers £250,000 lifetime and much more if effect impact lifetime earning ability.

    Surely anybody with A-level Chemistry could make all the acid they wanted themselves? GCSE probably covers it, it's hardly rocket science.

    Rubisco

    Surely anybody with A-level Chemistry could make all the acid they wanted … Surely anybody with A-level Chemistry could make all the acid they wanted themselves? GCSE probably covers it, it's hardly rocket science.



    Guns don't kill people, same as speed doesn't kill people, it's the driver. Gravity doesn't kill people it's the sudden stop. Making them harder to get hold of is about the limitation they can do. The automobile is probably the biggest weapon people can own. We have to make sure the punishment fits the crime. Fortunately most acid attackers will have low intelligence, probably school dropouts. It's horrendous, possibly worse than death for the victims.

    You can buy fairly strong acids in commercial products.

    Hydrochloric acid is used for cleaning bricks and unblocking urinals, sulphuric acid to top up batteries, which you could boil down to make it stronger. Phosphoric acid is used to remove rust.

    It is not so much the availability of acid that's the problem, it is that the sentencing really doesn't fit the severity of the crime.

    As melted says there a plenty of legitimate uses of strong acids so an outright ban or heavy restriction of sale won't work. One option could be stricter regulation from the sales side where all sellers are required to be licensed and obtain proof of ID and address from the buyer which are then logged on a central IT system, may act as deterrent to a potential attacker if they know the sale has been recorded. The obvious downside is the cost of setting this up.

    You cant think of any reason for the public to buy acid?

    Heres some, drain cleaning, limescale removal, paint remover, cleaning metal and electrical things

    spoo

    As melted says there a plenty of legitimate uses of strong acids so an … As melted says there a plenty of legitimate uses of strong acids so an outright ban or heavy restriction of sale won't work. One option could be stricter regulation from the sales side where all sellers are required to be licensed and obtain proof of ID and address from the buyer which are then logged on a central IT system, may act as deterrent to a potential attacker if they know the sale has been recorded. The obvious downside is the cost of setting this up.



    So a town having 15,000 registered buyers of drain clearer is somehow a deterrent? And if you think it is are you not just encouraging breakins and thefts from plumbers vans etc

    For anyone interested there is currently a petition to restrict the sale:

    change.org/p/u…bar

    Rubisco

    Surely anybody with A-level Chemistry could make all the acid they wanted … Surely anybody with A-level Chemistry could make all the acid they wanted themselves? GCSE probably covers it, it's hardly rocket science.



    http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/science.gif

    (She's probably just dropped some acid)

    sentences like this one could be a reason for the increase,

    bbc.co.uk/new…939

    fanpages

    (She's probably just dropped some acid)




    http://www.fantazia.org.uk/images/600px-Smiley_svg.png
    Edited by: "OllieSt" 9th Jul

    My suggestion would be an ID check, making a quick note of address on paper kept by the till(simple enough a supermarket can do it), along with far harsher sentences which might reduce it or at least make them think twice.

    Horrid crime. I think I'd rather be shot or stabbed, than acid.

    Damn, I came in expecting a thread on the 90's rave scene!

    An acid attack should be treated as attempted murder and the sentence handed down for it it should be severe.

    spoo

    As melted says there a plenty of legitimate uses of strong acids so an … As melted says there a plenty of legitimate uses of strong acids so an outright ban or heavy restriction of sale won't work. One option could be stricter regulation from the sales side where all sellers are required to be licensed and obtain proof of ID and address from the buyer which are then logged on a central IT system, may act as deterrent to a potential attacker if they know the sale has been recorded. The obvious downside is the cost of setting this up.


    Impossible and hugely costly to administer and to enforce, same as for cigarettes and knives ; hint: once acid was used, traceability of HCl acid once decanted into another bottle, how ?!
    Nevasleep

    My suggestion would be an ID check, making a quick note of address on … My suggestion would be an ID check, making a quick note of address on paper kept by the till(simple enough a supermarket can do it), along with far harsher sentences which might reduce it or at least make them think twice.Horrid crime. I think I'd rather be shot or stabbed, than acid.



    jadamso

    For anyone interested there is currently a petition to restrict the … For anyone interested there is currently a petition to restrict the sale:https://www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-prohibit-the-purchase-of-acid-to-those-without-a-licence?source_location=minibar




    Edited by: "splender" 10th Jul

    JumpMan1980

    Are there brave forms? What are they




    I assume that this is just a rather silly rhetorical question, unless you do not realise that the word 'particularly' points to an element of gradation. Throw a punch at someone - you run the risk of being hit back harder and faster. In comparison, throwing acid in someone's face is 'particularly cowardly'. Do you understand the difference now?

    JumpMan1980

    Assume what you like - i found the word cowardly to be odd as though … Assume what you like - i found the word cowardly to be odd as though there is any other form of attack. "hit back harder n faster" - like we are all ufc champions. Someone punches you in the face unannounced, is that not cowardly?




    I think this has all the signs of being a pointless exchange if you don't understand the meaning of 'particularly' when preceding 'cowardly'. There seems little point in repeating my previous post, but the use of acid does not run the same risk of retribution that a punch, for example, might. Again, I will assume that for whatever reason you are seeking an angle to contest where none exists.

    JumpMan1980

    did you report my original reply to this - where's it gone? in terms of … did you report my original reply to this - where's it gone? in terms of gradation it was particularly good




    No I didn't. If you have an issue with the way in which your comments are being judged, I suggest you take it up with the HUKD Moderation team.

    JumpMan1980

    Sorry Saturn - the MOD team have pointed out the error in my ways. You … Sorry Saturn - the MOD team have pointed out the error in my ways. You were right all along.





    http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lno44rCD261qblf8do1_500.gif

    Original Poster

    There is no genuine reason to allow ordinary members of the public to purchase acid.
    Unlike knives, sales of this stuff is easier to control.

    Destard9 m ago

    There is no genuine reason to allow ordinary members of the public to …There is no genuine reason to allow ordinary members of the public to purchase acid.Unlike knives, sales of this stuff is easier to control.




    Of course there is. Many of which have been mentioned in this thread.

    Destard

    There is no genuine reason to allow ordinary members of the public to … There is no genuine reason to allow ordinary members of the public to purchase acid.Unlike knives, sales of this stuff is easier to control.



    What utter rubbish, there are 100s of perfectly legitimate uses for acid around the home. I have been using it for over 20 years without maiming anyone, well a small burn on my thumb whilst stripping paint from an old door.

    I'm a fan of acid, particularly on my chips.

    Original Poster

    RossD89

    Of course there is. Many of which have been mentioned in this thread.


    Oh you mean the nonsense people have pulled out in a bid to be argumentative? like oh yeah I need this acid to errr clean my bricks! yes, that regular brick cleaning exercise that I do....
    Face it, members of the public have no genuine need to buy acid. The sale of this can be regulated and controlled so that (for example) certified tradesmen or similar can purchase the stuff. It won't stop the attacks entirely, nor prevent it getting into the hands of the scumbags that attack people, but it will make it a lot harder.

    Destard

    Oh you mean the nonsense people have pulled out in a bid to be … Oh you mean the nonsense people have pulled out in a bid to be argumentative? like oh yeah I need this acid to errr clean my bricks! yes, that regular brick cleaning exercise that I do....Face it, members of the public have no genuine need to buy acid. The sale of this can be regulated and controlled so that (for example) certified tradesmen or similar can purchase the stuff. It won't stop the attacks entirely, nor prevent it getting into the hands of the scumbags that attack people, but it will make it a lot harder.



    Seems like you are the one being argumentative. Just because you, personally, have not used acid, does not mean that others do not have a legitimate reason to purchase and use it.

    Destard

    Oh you mean the nonsense people have pulled out in a bid to be … Oh you mean the nonsense people have pulled out in a bid to be argumentative? like oh yeah I need this acid to errr clean my bricks! yes, that regular brick cleaning exercise that I do....Face it, members of the public have no genuine need to buy acid. The sale of this can be regulated and controlled so that (for example) certified tradesmen or similar can purchase the stuff. It won't stop the attacks entirely, nor prevent it getting into the hands of the scumbags that attack people, but it will make it a lot harder.



    You talk like its a modern phenomenon, its been in regularly use in East London since the 70s, they called it squirt.
    I am just about to move house to an old victorian property, and will have plenty of uses for acid.

    Yep, I've been using oxalic acid to clear some stained wooden doors and posts/beams. Though it's not heavily corrosive, even when at saturation - which I know thanks to a split glove.
    I'm saying this as I hope there isn't a knee-jerk reaction to this, with a blanket ban on anything containing the word "acid".

    Destard

    Oh you mean the nonsense people have pulled out in a bid to be … Oh you mean the nonsense people have pulled out in a bid to be argumentative? like oh yeah I need this acid to errr clean my bricks! yes, that regular brick cleaning exercise that I do....Face it, members of the public have no genuine need to buy acid. The sale of this can be regulated and controlled so that (for example) certified tradesmen or similar can purchase the stuff. It won't stop the attacks entirely, nor prevent it getting into the hands of the scumbags that attack people, but it will make it a lot harder.



    You might not need to clean your brickwork, but other people do, which is why you can buy Hydrochloric acid (aka muriatic acid - (not sure if I've spelt that right)) based products in B&Q:-

    diy.com/dep…prd

    diy.com/dep…rue

    Why should responsible people be forced to pay a substantial sum for a professional to do a simple job they can safely do for themselves.


    Are you also going to ban unsealed car batteries to prevent people from pouring the sulphuric acid out of them.

    And while you are at it what about strong alkalines and other chemicals that these attackers could switch to, like like sodium hydroxide (caustic soda) - no more unblocking your own drains?

    It is a sadistic crime, intended to disfigure, torture and often blind the victim, the sentencing or perpetrators needs to be much more severe to create an effective deterrent.

    We will all have to find new inventive ways to digest our food too, skin should also be banned, along with vinegar.

    Alkali only in my eyes... Not literally though.
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