All going well - UK's top diplomat in Brussels Sir Ivan Rogers resigns, months before Brexit negotiations expected to begin

Found 3rd Jan
UK's top diplomat in Brussels Sir Ivan Rogers resigns, months before Brexit negotiations expected to begin

bbc news link

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166 Comments

One side will say this is a good thing because he's an elitist remainiac who spread Project Fear by saying that a deal could take a decade to complete (which is what a lot of informed people have said), others will say that we've lost a knowledgable asset with regards our relationship with the EU.

As someone who wants the best for the British economy, my response:

b***er.

No surprise, he was hired by Cameron, the cynical side of me says that a big cheque was thrust in his hands and he duly "resigned" always makes more sense to put your own team in, once there has been a change at a snr staff level.

Seen it happen many times before.

What a splendid start to 2017.

jumping from the gravy train before he is pushed, good move must have the country at heart lol

Sir Ivan Rogers was responsible for renegotiating our EU membership terms and failed miserably, a faliure that ultimately lead to brexit so not such a great loss.

good riddance, he couldn't negotiate his way out of a wet paper bag X)

SIR? oO Why do so many people who have done nothing but cost the ordinary Jo fleece their way into a knighthood? Sir Fred Goodwin comes to mind....where's he about these days other than a beach in Barbados?!

DarkEnergy2012

good riddance, he couldn't negotiate his way out of a wet paper bag X)



Negotiations of the type he's been involved in are always complex which leaves a lot of room for the layperson to criticise them.

It makes criticisms like your's easy to make but hard to substantiate.

Fred Smith

Sir Ivan Rogers was responsible for renegotiating our EU membership terms … Sir Ivan Rogers was responsible for renegotiating our EU membership terms and failed miserably, a faliure that ultimately lead to brexit so not such a great loss.



Brexit was about morons obsessed with immigration thats all.

Error440

Brexit was about morons obsessed with immigration thats all.



Not quite. Immigration was a scapegoat.

Mostly it was about people with a victim complex placing their woes on something else.

It's why you hear them talk about this country not being great. What they mean is it hasn't been great for them and they want something to blame that on.

Error440

Brexit was about morons obsessed with immigration thats all.



Brexit was about a whole lot more than immigration - comments such as yours are just made by lazy ignorant people to denigrate those who voted to leave the EU.

Is it the same guy who tried to negotiate Camerons laughable remain deal? If so he should have resigned ages ago, Not like he actually did anything usefull, Didn't stop the EU becoming the great dictatorship that it is, Didn't stop Merkel allowing the terrorists to spread throughout the EU. He's partially responsible even if he voted against it.

He can probably see that the EU is about to collapse, Probably got a huge bonus, Notice how he waited until the new year.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Not quite. Immigration was a scapegoat.Mostly it was about people with a … Not quite. Immigration was a scapegoat.Mostly it was about people with a victim complex placing their woes on something else.It's why you hear them talk about this country not being great. What they mean is it hasn't been great for them and they want something to blame that on.



"Mostly it was about people with a victim complex placing their woes on something else"

It was the complete opposite it was about taking responsibility for your own future.

Original Poster

shauneco

Is it the same guy who tried to negotiate Camerons laughable remain deal? … Is it the same guy who tried to negotiate Camerons laughable remain deal? If so he should have resigned ages ago, Not like he actually did anything usefull, Didn't stop the EU becoming the great dictatorship that it is, Didn't stop Merkel allowing the terrorists to spread throughout the EU. He's partially responsible even if he voted against it. He can probably see that the EU is about to collapse, Probably got a huge bonus, Notice how he waited until the new year.




I don't think 'Dictatorship' means what you think it means.....

Fred Smith

"Mostly it was about people with a victim complex placing their woes on … "Mostly it was about people with a victim complex placing their woes on something else"It was the complete opposite it was about taking responsibility for your own future.



You couldn't take responsibility of your own future already? We're talking about individuals here.

The simple fact of the matter is that millions of people were taking responsibility for their own lives before the vote and will after. The EU didn't interfere with that, in fact as a member of the EU we have a remarkably strong economy that afforded bounteous opportunities to all.

If people weren't feeling the benefits of that, it's entirely their fault.

teh arn

I don't think 'Dictatorship' means what you think it means.....



Shaune will tell you about the EU dictatorship keeping him down until the cows come home.

The issue of personal responsibility is something he has far less to discuss.

Cameron's, Blair's and Major's "deals" on Europe all pursued elitist agendas that favoured immoral corporate fat cats and ignored the needs and concerns of the vast majority of hard working Brits. All were poorly negotiated sacrificing sovereignty, borders and hard earned taxes for worthless dross. Given Sir Ivan's involvement its both timely and beneficial to Brexit for him to go.

teh arn

I don't think 'Dictatorship' means what you think it means.....


So the EU doesn't dictate to everyone else what they can and can't do, Doesn't set rules/laws that we all have to follow?. Ok then. They say we have to do, Not everything is bad but it restricts our own control.

In other EU news: Jean-Claude Juncker blocked EU curbs on tax avoidance.Leaked papers reveal that as Luxembourg’s PM, the European commission president obstructed the bloc’s tax reforms efforts

Corrupt from within,, It's all starting to come out now.
Edited by: ".MUFC." 3rd Jan

UKcitizen

Cameron's, Blair's and Major's "deals" on Europe all pursued elitist … Cameron's, Blair's and Major's "deals" on Europe all pursued elitist agendas that favoured immoral corporate fat cats and ignored the needs and concerns of the vast majority of hard working Brits. All were poorly negotiated sacrificing sovereignty, borders and hard earned taxes for worthless dross. Given Sir Ivan's involvement its both timely and beneficial to Brexit for him to go.



elitist
corporat fat cats
hard-working Brits
sovereignty

So close. Media-elite, metropolitan or London-centric would've seen you win Brexit bingo.

Seriously though, I love this idea of the 'fat-cats' versus the 'majority of hard-working Brits'. People who have worked their way up the ladder can be hard-working you know, and people who haven't prospered can just be lazy and feckless.

But no, the establishment is to blame. Wear that victim t-shirt with pride.

shauneco

So the EU doesn't dictate to everyone else what they can and can't do, … So the EU doesn't dictate to everyone else what they can and can't do, Doesn't set rules/laws that we all have to follow?. Ok then. They say we have to do, Not everything is bad but it restricts our own control. In other EU news: Jean-Claude Juncker blocked EU curbs on tax avoidance.Corrupt from within,, It's all starting to come out now.



Wait, the Prime Minister of Luxembourg fought measures designed to curb tax avoidance by multinationals....sacre bleu!!!

X)

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

You couldn't take responsibility of your own future already? We're … You couldn't take responsibility of your own future already? We're talking about individuals here.The simple fact of the matter is that millions of people were taking responsibility for their own lives before the vote and will after. The EU didn't interfere with that, in fact as a member of the EU we have a remarkably strong economy that afforded bounteous opportunities to all.If people weren't feeling the benefits of that, it's entirely their fault.



But we are not talking about individuals we are talking about a nation.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Wait, the Prime Minister of Luxembourg fought measures designed to curb … Wait, the Prime Minister of Luxembourg fought measures designed to curb tax avoidance by multinationals....sacre bleu!!!X)


No he obstructed, I missed an important quote out.
Edited by: ".MUFC." 3rd Jan

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Not quite. Immigration was a scapegoat.Mostly it was about people with a … Not quite. Immigration was a scapegoat.Mostly it was about people with a victim complex placing their woes on something else.It's why you hear them talk about this country not being great. What they mean is it hasn't been great for them and they want something to blame that on.


Is that not what you're now doing with brexit? Blaming anyone who happens to vote differently from yourself?
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Wait, the Prime Minister of Luxembourg fought measures designed to curb … Wait, the Prime Minister of Luxembourg fought measures designed to curb tax avoidance by multinationals....sacre bleu!!!X)


But surely it should for the good of all 27 not a couple of tax dodging small nations?

teh arn

I don't think 'Dictatorship' means what you think it means.....



The EU Commission is a failed dictatorship - that better?

Fred Smith

But we are not talking about individuals we are talking about a nation.



I was talking about individuals and that was clear in my post.

I said "Mostly it was about people with a victim complex placing their woes on something else" and you followed up with 'It was the complete opposite it was about taking responsibility for your own future'.

We're talking about individuals.

If you want to talk about this notion of us taking responsibility as a nation then go for it. There's some merit to the argument that we'll have greater say over certain things, but to remain within the single market (which most grown ups realise is important for our financial services sector) we'd have to adhere to a lot of EU regulations. The fact is the Great Repeal Bill will immediately enshrine EU Law into British law. It can be amended afterwards but the vast majority won't.

The question is: Who on earth, of any suitable diplomatic capacity, will actually want the job?

You report to the Prime Minister what you are being told by your EU counterparts, none of which is good, the report is leaked, and you get all manner of abuse from Brexiteers.

Anyone with half a clue knows that the negotiations are not going to go well for the UK. No matter what would be the best long term outcome for the remaining EU states, their citizens are not going to want things to go well for us. The pro-EU citizens now hate the UK for for threatening the Union and the nationalist EU citizens hate the UK because well, like UK nationalists, they hate everyone anyway. We don't really have any friends there any more. So it's not going to go well and whoever takes up the senior negotiating position is going to get a big part of the blame!

DKLS

No surprise, he was hired by Cameron, the cynical side of me says that a … No surprise, he was hired by Cameron, the cynical side of me says that a big cheque was thrust in his hands and he duly "resigned" always makes more sense to put your own team in, once there has been a change at a snr staff level. Seen it happen many times before.



​This ^^^^^^^

Makes a change to read sensible comments on this forum regardless of which side of the fence you sit. So often faceless people come on hear and deposit a lot if c**p which wouldn't be given an audience in the real world because they're too stupid, bigoted, racist, homophobic etc etc

shauneco

No he obstructed, I missed an important quote out.



Semantics aside, why is this a surprise? A Prime Minister trying to do best by his economy, OMG guyz!!111!


Marty1981

Is that not what you're now doing with brexit? Blaming anyone who happens … Is that not what you're now doing with brexit? Blaming anyone who happens to vote differently from yourself? But surely it should for the good of all 27 not a couple of tax dodging small nations?



Explaining why people wanted Brexit isn't the same, no. Repeating the lie that there was something wrong with this country before Brexit is simply shifting the responsibility of where one's life was at that point in time.

And the Prime Minister of Luxembourg should put their own economy's interests first, just like other country's should. Theresa May for example should do what is best for the City of London because that drives this country's economy.

david_wavid

What a splendid start to 2017.



​yes and no

VDisillusioned

The question is: Who on earth, of any suitable diplomatic capacity, will … The question is: Who on earth, of any suitable diplomatic capacity, will actually want the job? You report to the Prime Minister what you are being told by your EU counterparts, none of which is good, the report is leaked, and you get all manner of abuse from Brexiteers. Anyone with half a clue knows that the negotiations are not going to go well for the UK. No matter what would be the best long term outcome for the remaining EU states, their citizens are not going to want things to go well for us. The pro-EU citizens now hate the UK for for threatening the Union and the nationalist EU citizens hate the UK because well, like UK nationalists, they hate everyone anyway. We don't really have any friends there any more. So it's not going to go well and whoever takes up the senior negotiating position is going to get a big part of the blame!



I think you're going to be called a Remoaner spreading Project Fear, but you're speaking common sense. All this rubbish about trade balances (never reported in % terms, only in £) and German car manufacturers is there to hide the reality of the way these negotiations will go.

Sir Ivan got abuse because he reported back that a negotiation might take a decade, when all the evidence suggests that these negotiations will take longer than people were told. The problem is that we live in an age where people don't trust experts or those with knowledge and if it can't be explained on the front page of the Mail then it's not worth knowing.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Semantics aside, why is this a surprise? A Prime Minister trying to do … Semantics aside, why is this a surprise? A Prime Minister trying to do best by his economy, OMG guyz!!111!Explaining why people wanted Brexit isn't the same, no. Repeating the lie that there was something wrong with this country before Brexit is simply shifting the responsibility of where one's life was at that point in time.And the Prime Minister of Luxembourg should put their own economy's interests first, just like other country's should. Theresa May for example should do what is best for the City of London because that drives this country's economy.


Of course it is you are worried about your livelihood and blame those that have been worried about theirs for much longer. The majority of the electorate could not give 2 hoots about the city whatever its importance to the economy it is simply not relatable to them and that is why remain failed to connect with many people it was telling rather than listening.
A nation of 500000 blocked the will of much of the rest is that democracy at work with 0.1% dictating terms?

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Semantics aside, why is this a surprise? A Prime Minister trying to do … Semantics aside, why is this a surprise? A Prime Minister trying to do best by his economy, OMG guyz!!111!Explaining why people wanted Brexit isn't the same, no. Repeating the lie that there was something wrong with this country before Brexit is simply shifting the responsibility of where one's life was at that point in time.And the Prime Minister of Luxembourg should put their own economy's interests first, just like other country's should. Theresa May for example should do what is best for the City of London because that drives this country's economy.


Because that comes at the expense of everyone else, It contradicts his role, The leader should surely be neutral. He supports tax avoidance.
Edited by: ".MUFC." 3rd Jan

Marty1981

The majority of the electorate could not give 2 hoots about the city … The majority of the electorate could not give 2 hoots about the city whatever its importance to the economy it is simply not relatable to them and that is why remain failed to connect with many people it was telling rather than listening.



This is so telling. The majority of the electorate whose public services are reliant on the strength of the City of London's tax receipts simply didn't care.

They were given a scapegoat for all life's ills and took it. The thing is that if the **** hits the fan and the economy goes into recession (I'm still predicting Q3 2017) then they will be the worst hit.

Hopefully the City rides this all out because we need it.


shauneco

Because that comes at the expence of everyone else, It contradicts his … Because that comes at the expence of everyone else, It contradicts his role, The leader should surely be neutral. He supports tax avoidance.



He was the Prime Minister of Luxembourg. His concern was the economy of Luxembourg.

Why on Earth would a leader be neutral? His concern should be the country he is leading.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

I think you're going to be called a Remoaner spreading Project Fear, but … I think you're going to be called a Remoaner spreading Project Fear, but you're speaking common sense. All this rubbish about trade balances (never reported in % terms, only in £) and German car manufacturers is there to hide the reality of the way these negotiations will go.Sir Ivan got abuse because he reported back that a negotiation might take a decade, when all the evidence suggests that these negotiations will take longer than people were told. The problem is that we live in an age where people don't trust experts or those with knowledge and if it can't be explained on the front page of the Mail then it's not worth knowing.


Not to cherry pick a couple but experts warned of an immediate recession following brexit? Stock market crash(ftse at record highs)?

Marty1981

Not to cherry pick a couple but experts warned of an immediate recession … Not to cherry pick a couple but experts warned of an immediate recession following brexit? Stock market crash(ftse at record highs)?



Firstly, Brexit hasn't happened yet. Hard to remember I know but you've put it clearly there - 'immediate recession following Brexit'.

Secondly, which experts? The immediate response was a fall in the value of the Pound which has had and will continue to have implications on the price of goods. That leads on to the point about the FTSE - it's cheaper for overseas investors to invest in the FTSE 100 which is why they've gone up. Again, that's good news for some but it's linked to the value of the Pound. In fact if you had savings or investments linked to the FTSE then it's hard to know if you're better off in the long-term once price rises occur.

VDisillusioned

The question is: Who on earth, of any suitable diplomatic capacity, will … The question is: Who on earth, of any suitable diplomatic capacity, will actually want the job? You report to the Prime Minister what you are being told by your EU counterparts, none of which is good, the report is leaked, and you get all manner of abuse from Brexiteers. Anyone with half a clue knows that the negotiations are not going to go well for the UK. No matter what would be the best long term outcome for the remaining EU states, their citizens are not going to want things to go well for us. The pro-EU citizens now hate the UK for for threatening the Union and the nationalist EU citizens hate the UK because well, like UK nationalists, they hate everyone anyway. We don't really have any friends there any more. So it's not going to go well and whoever takes up the senior negotiating position is going to get a big part of the blame!



It's probably one of the most important jobs in the civil service available at the moment so I'm sure there will be lots of people wanting it.

As for "Anyone with half a clue..." that is one opinion widely held by people who are terrified at the prospect of leaving the EU, for whatever reason. There is also a view that the EU would take a more professional approach to trade talks with the 5th largest economy on the planet. We shall see in the next few months.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Firstly, Brexit hasn't happened yet. Hard to remember I know but you've … Firstly, Brexit hasn't happened yet. Hard to remember I know but you've put it clearly there - 'immediate recession following Brexit'. Secondly, which experts? The immediate response was a fall in the value of the Pound which has had and will continue to have implications on the price of goods. That leads on to the point about the FTSE - it's cheaper for overseas investors to invest in the FTSE 100 which is why they've gone up. Again, that's good news for some but it's linked to the value of the Pound. In fact if you had savings or investments linked to the FTSE then it's hard to know if you're better off in the long-term once price rises occur.


It was actually following brexit vote that q3 would contract 0.1%.
So your recession prediction is negative growth in q2 from next year? Are you an expert and we can see how accurate your predciction is. The pound was overvalued where it was and now gives the opportunity to rebalance and grow the economy. Again inflation is not a terrible thing and is nowhere near a level seen whilst safely in the EU ?

colin4man

It's probably one of the most important jobs in the civil service … It's probably one of the most important jobs in the civil service available at the moment so I'm sure there will be lots of people wanting it.As for "Anyone with half a clue..." that is one opinion widely held by people who are terrified at the prospect of leaving the EU, for whatever reason. There is also a view that the EU would take a more professional approach to trade talks with the 5th largest economy on the planet. We shall see in the next few months.



The man reported back his honest view that it would take a decade to complete negotiations (which is a fairly accepted time frame based on similar negotiations) and was torn to shreds. Three weeks later he quits.

Now do you think there's going to be a long line of people who get abuse for giving their honest assessment? Maybe we'll get someone who tells the government and Brixters what they want to hear, even if it isn't true.

But civil servants are supposed to be apolitical and when giving an apolitical answer, he was attacked. I don't blame the man for quitting when he can work in the private sector earning a similar wage, if not more and not have to be associated with the horror show that is Theresa May's Brexit adventure.

As for the EU, they have 27 nations that they want to retain as part of the bloc. They can't give us special treatment no matter how many bottles of Rioja and BMWs we buy (the numbers of which won't be affected by tariffs in the slightest).

teh arn

You know it's not just UK companies on the FTSE 100, don't you?


I know but they will be moving to the dax of the cac soon once we implode and sink into the sea.
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