Amazon and sale of goods act

45
Found 26th Jan 2013
My sony blu ray has packed in after 16 months and i thought i'd have a shot at amazon under the SoGA on the basis that the item hasn't lasted a reasonable length of time.

Has anybody else had any joy with this? I've kinda hit a brick wall with them although my emails have been pushed up to the "Executive Customer Relations" but they are stating that as i have had 16 months use from the product it is not established that the product did not conform to the contracts (ie was defective) at the time of purchase. The are then stating that they are under no obligation to repair or replace the item and are fobbing me of to sony.

Am i flogging a dead horse here or do i have grounds to pursue this under the SoGA?

Cheers
Community Updates
45 Comments
Does it still have any warranty remaining? Worth checking, I *think* manufacturers have to provide a 2 year warranty under EU law (although most don't seem to advertise or comply with it from what little i've read).

Read here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/feb/05/how-long-electrical-goods-guaranteed

As for SoGA outside of 12 months, I've never had any luck, works well on BBC consumer shows but not IRL.

Fanpages knows a lot about this kind of stuff, hopefully he will be along soon.
Edited by: "spaceinvader" 26th Jan 2013
Banned
spaceinvader

Does it still have any warranty remaining? Worth checking, I *think* … Does it still have any warranty remaining? Worth checking, I *think* manufacturers have to provide a 2 year warranty under EU law (although most don't seem to advertise or comply with it from what little i've read).Read here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/feb/05/how-long-electrical-goods-guaranteedAs for SoGA outside of 12 months, I've never had any luck, works well on BBC consumer shows but not IRL.Fanpages knows a lot about this kind of stuff, hopefully he will be along soon.

we opted out of the 2 year eu regulations

op, try sony
Pursue it.

I got a new PS3 from Game a few years back.
spaceinvader

Does it still have any warranty remaining? Worth checking, I *think* … Does it still have any warranty remaining? Worth checking, I *think* manufacturers have to provide a 2 year warranty under EU law (although most don't seem to advertise or comply with it from what little i've read).Read here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/feb/05/how-long-electrical-goods-guaranteedAs for SoGA outside of 12 months, I've never had any luck, works well on BBC consumer shows but not IRL.Fanpages knows a lot about this kind of stuff, hopefully he will be along soon.





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fanpages

When “The Sale of Goods Act 1979″ was amended in 1994 it included a cla … When “The Sale of Goods Act 1979″ was amended in 1994 it included a clause to say that goods purchased from a trader must correspond with the description, be of satisfactory quality, & be fit for purpose with a continued operation over a “reasonable” length of time.If the goods are not of “satisfactory quality” you are entitled to claim a refund or compensation (that typically represents the cost of any repairs).You may make a claim up to five (in Scotland) or six years after the initial purchase date. You do not have a six year warranty.The retailer, not the manufacturer, is legally obliged to resolve any issue with the goods.The terms of the Consumer Law are in excess of the standard one-year guarantee provided by the manufacturer.Extended warranties are, again, in addition to the cover provided by “The Sale of Goods Act”.



I would pursue your case as far as you can, but seek additional advice from [ citizensadvice.org.uk ] or Martin "I'm a trademark" Lewis.
Banned
speak to trading standards about it and bring up SoGA they will give you more info on it, also tell amazon you spoke to trading standards
Original Poster
cheers guys - was hoping to pursue it via amazon since they are easy to contact and were the sellers but i'm just unsure how best to approach it since they are stonewalling me....i'll maybe drop sony an email as well see what they say.

It seems the EU directive isn't applicable in the UK as out SoGA goes beyond it anyway....
good luck

we had an item that went faulty after 13-14 months if I recall, Amazon had none of it, I will tell you what the CAB told me, when you order from a website 99% have their T&C's when you order...

to order you accept those T+C's

Others will argue that a websites T+C's do not circumvent european law.... so you will have to take them to court and let a judge decide.

If you disagree with their T+C's do not order from them..... that was their line to me
Edited by: "Aeschylus" 26th Jan 2013
I would send amazon a link regarding the sale of goods and reasonable time for them to last. In order to get a case against them you need to get the machine inspected to say that it has a design fault or was faulty due to poor workmanship/parts.

Tell amazon that you are willing to pay for an inspection but that these are unnecessary costs which they will have to pay if the matter was taken further, and ask that all you wanted was a working product. It may jolt them into paying out, but you could also say you would be willing to accept a part refund to buy a new machine because you have had a certain amount of use from it. Which is also fair.
This thread may be of interest to you:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/digital-photography/1384538-legal-position-failed-sony-dslr-a200-ccd-sensor.html

The person had a faulty Sony DSLR which had a sensor failure at around 16 months old, he got nowhere with Amazon and sued them through the small claims court for which they didn't turn up, the judge awarded the repair and court costs which Amazon paid up.

John
As the item is over 6 months old if you take it further you have to get an engineers report to say it is a manufacturing fault. The onus is on you to prove this.

You could try seeing if its a common fault and bombard Amazon with anecdotal evidence.
How much did you pay and what's it worth today?
Original Poster
cheers guys for all the comments - all very useful! The player was about 100 quid and i guess the replacement value is about 80 quid so not a fortune! Still there's the principal that a branded piece of consumer electronics should not fail within 16 months of purchase - especially considering the light use it gets....
I personally don't think it's worth the stress and time, not to mention attending court dates etc, as annoying as it is I would just let it go
Aeschylus

I personally don't think it's worth the stress and time, not to mention … I personally don't think it's worth the stress and time, not to mention attending court dates etc, as annoying as it is I would just let it go



+1

So much nonsense talked on this site about your rights. See Oneday77 post #11 for true facts.
niallmoran

cheers guys for all the comments - all very useful! The player was about … cheers guys for all the comments - all very useful! The player was about 100 quid and i guess the replacement value is about 80 quid so not a fortune! Still there's the principal that a branded piece of consumer electronics should not fail within 16 months of purchase - especially considering the light use it gets....



I know what you mean, but the thing is these days, we as consumers rush to the cheapest outlet which makes the least amount of money, then expect the type of service you would receive from a company that makes the most profit, it's the way of the world today. For £100 worth of blu ray player, I would say sell it on as parts, get some money back and put it towards a new one, things aren't built to last like they used to be. Then write Amazon a 'very disappointing' letter and see if they give you a goodwill voucher or something.

Amazon are great at returns, price and speedy response, but when it comes to sale of goods act etc, there is only so much a warehouse and website can do or will do.
i had a similar issue with a broken tv after 13 months of use the retailer didnt want to know however I contact toshiba and they did a full repair free of charge
Original Poster
Aeschylus

I personally don't think it's worth the stress and time, not to mention … I personally don't think it's worth the stress and time, not to mention attending court dates etc, as annoying as it is I would just let it go



you're probably right, just annoying that such a huge company like amazon know they can ride rough shod over consumer rights as the alternative is way too much hassle.
im not sure its worth the hassle either,you can pick up a sony bluray for about £40
niallmoran

you're probably right, just annoying that such a huge company like amazon … you're probably right, just annoying that such a huge company like amazon know they can ride rough shod over consumer rights as the alternative is way too much hassle.



Well they get away with not paying tax, the sale of goods act does not apply.
Where does this 'assumption' come from that EVERY piece of electrical equipment that is ever sold should work flawlessly for it's entire life?

QUOTE:
"a branded piece of consumer electronics should not fail within 16 months of purchase - especially considering the light use it gets..."

I'm not having a pop at you OP but this is simply not true. Branded or unbranded, a component may/can/will fail on ANY piece of equipment - FACT. It's luck of the draw, I'm afraid. Most people will dig out their stories of how they have a Bush portable radio that's 20 years+ old and still works like a dream. Then there's the Panasonic TV that worked for a month and now has a line down the middle of the screen. There's no right - no wrong. It's just something that happens when hundreds and hundreds of individual components try to work together at once in many differing situations. The manufacterers can make an item to the best quality and standard they can - AND STILL IT WILL FAIL, regardless of how little or how much use it gets.

Also, where are Amazon; as you put it; riding roughshod over your rights? 16 months is a perfectly good amount of time for a piece of equipment to prove it has performed it's duty. If you had an extended guarantee, it would be fixed for free. You didn't take one out so therefore you are not entitled to anything extra. Some companies will; as a goodwill gesture; offer to help in these situations - but it is a gesture - not a right, and they are not legally compelled to do anything. I have also been where you are now and; yes; it sucks but it's just bad luck. It didn't fail on purpose and it wasn't Amazon's fault.

This is why a manufacturer puts a 'statuatory' guarantee on an item. Had this item have had a 2yr warranty and it broke down at the 27 month mark, would you also still say that it should have lasted longer? Of course you would. So would I. Would you feel the same about trying to get it repaired/replaced? I don't know.

So, what guarantee would YOU like a manufacturer to put on a product? 5 years? 10 years? Lifetime maybe? And how much more will you pay for that product to cover this new, longer guarantee? Maybe keep an eye on the likes of Lidl and Aldi etc. Most of their electrical stock comes with a 3yr warranty. Built to a particular standard; of course; but warranty is warranty. Also, some of their components are the same ones as those you would see in LG, Toshiba, Phillips etc. and yes, good old Sony.

As I said, I'm not having a go at you. I just don't see where anyone; in particular; is to blame here. It's just you got the short end of the stick. It happens. I really hope you CAN get somewhere with your communication with Amazon but I; for one; would play it cool and take the moral lowground in the hope that they do offer some sort of 'goodwill' gesture. Maybe point out (as I did with another product that died just out of warranty) that if some sort of arrangement can be made you would be happy to purchase a replacement from them?

Best of luck, my friend.

(Oh, and just to upset all the Sony lovers out there - I personally wouldn't waste a penny on a Sony product. One word - SHODDY.)
If you're getting nowhere with Amazon, try the same approach with the manufacturer. They may be more accommodating if it's a known fault for that model. Could also get a quote from a local repairman for a fix if you get nowhere.. might be cheaper than replacing the whole unit and the work should be guaranteed..
A good interpretation is "reasonable expectation".

You buy a fridge/freezer, you expect it to last a good while, 4/5 years minimum is a reasonable expectation.

You buy a furby, it lasts until next christmas, you're happy - that's a reasonable expectation.

You buy el cheapo dvd, then a year is a reasonable expectation.
You spend much more on a branded dvd, then your expectation increases, but is that reasonable?

As others have said, check if there is any evidence that your model has issues - google is your friend.

You have had some use out of it, so a fair result would be to get some money back, maybe a third to half.
I'd pursue it just because it's only a couple of letters to Amazon, and then small claims is nice and straightforward if it goes that far - just be concise and factual - no believe/feel fluffy stuff!
Phsycronix

Where does this 'assumption' come from that EVERY piece of electrical … Where does this 'assumption' come from that EVERY piece of electrical equipment that is ever sold should work flawlessly for it's entire life?QUOTE:"a branded piece of consumer electronics should not fail within 16 months of purchase - especially considering the light use it gets..."I'm not having a pop at you OP but this is simply not true. Branded or unbranded, a component may/can/will fail on ANY piece of equipment - FACT. It's luck of the draw, I'm afraid. Most people will dig out their stories of how they have a Bush portable radio that's 20 years+ old and still works like a dream. Then there's the Panasonic TV that worked for a month and now has a line down the middle of the screen. There's no right - no wrong. It's just something that happens when hundreds and hundreds of individual components try to work together at once in many differing situations. The manufacterers can make an item to the best quality and standard they can - AND STILL IT WILL FAIL, regardless of how little or how much use it gets.Also, where are Amazon; as you put it; riding roughshod over your rights? 16 months is a perfectly good amount of time for a piece of equipment to prove it has performed it's duty. If you had an extended guarantee, it would be fixed for free. You didn't take one out so therefore you are not entitled to anything extra. Some companies will; as a goodwill gesture; offer to help in these situations - but it is a gesture - not a right, and they are not legally compelled to do anything. I have also been where you are now and; yes; it sucks but it's just bad luck. It didn't fail on purpose and it wasn't Amazon's fault.This is why a manufacturer puts a 'statuatory' guarantee on an item. Had this item have had a 2yr warranty and it broke down at the 27 month mark, would you also still say that it should have lasted longer? Of course you would. So would I. Would you feel the same about trying to get it repaired/replaced? I don't know.So, what guarantee would YOU like a manufacturer to put on a product? 5 years? 10 years? Lifetime maybe? And how much more will you pay for that product to cover this new, longer guarantee? Maybe keep an eye on the likes of Lidl and Aldi etc. Most of their electrical stock comes with a 3yr warranty. Built to a particular standard; of course; but warranty is warranty. Also, some of their components are the same ones as those you would see in LG, Toshiba, Phillips etc. and yes, good old Sony.As I said, I'm not having a go at you. I just don't see where anyone; in particular; is to blame here. It's just you got the short end of the stick. It happens. I really hope you CAN get somewhere with your communication with Amazon but I; for one; would play it cool and take the moral lowground in the hope that they do offer some sort of 'goodwill' gesture. Maybe point out (as I did with another product that died just out of warranty) that if some sort of arrangement can be made you would be happy to purchase a replacement from them?Best of luck, my friend.(Oh, and just to upset all the Sony lovers out there - I personally wouldn't waste a penny on a Sony product. One word - SHODDY.)



TL:DR http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/202134_o.gif
deanos

amazon isnt based in uk so the euro 2yr law should … amazon isnt based in uk so the euro 2yr law should standhttp://www.bitterwallet.com/amazon-know-your-rights/29102



2 Year Euro law, you mean the one that says items are covered for two years providing the product can be proved faulty at the time of sale? As much use as a chocolate teapot.
hapless

A good interpretation is "reasonable expectation".You buy a … A good interpretation is "reasonable expectation".You buy a fridge/freezer, you expect it to last a good while, 4/5 years minimum is a reasonable expectation.You buy a furby, it lasts until next christmas, you're happy - that's a reasonable expectation.You buy el cheapo dvd, then a year is a reasonable expectation. You spend much more on a branded dvd, then your expectation increases, but is that reasonable?As others have said, check if there is any evidence that your model has issues - google is your friend.You have had some use out of it, so a fair result would be to get some money back, maybe a third to half.I'd pursue it just because it's only a couple of letters to Amazon, and then small claims is nice and straightforward if it goes that far - just be concise and factual - no believe/feel fluffy stuff!



Which is why the SOGA wording is quite loose around the word acceptable, for example you would expect a £1000 TV to last longer than a £200 tv, and a court would take this into account.
markq

TL:DR



So, YOU CAN read then...
^^^^^^ Of course I can read, I just chose not to read that huge block of text! oO
Fair 'nuff'
As said you need to point the sale of goods act and that products should be of merchantable quality and last a reasonable length of time which is 5 years or so. Point out that the item has only been used for its intended purpose and the length of time its lasted is not acceptable.

I would give them 21 days to rectify the matter and issue small claims summons for cost of item and say £100 for inconvenience.

Chances of retailer defending the matter is slim due to cost and publicity if they lose. Chances of them winning are small also as courts rarely side with businesses over consumers unless the consumer is being totally unreasonable

blakey74

As said you need to point the sale of goods act and that products should … As said you need to point the sale of goods act and that products should be of merchantable quality and last a reasonable length of time which is 5 years or so. Point out that the item has only been used for its intended purpose and the length of time its lasted is not acceptable.I would give them 21 days to rectify the matter and issue small claims summons for cost of item and say £100 for inconvenience.Chances of retailer defending the matter is slim due to cost and publicity if they lose. Chances of them winning are small also as courts rarely side with businesses over consumers unless the consumer is being totally unreasonable



point out all you like, after 6 months its up to the purchaser to prove there is an inherent fault
As previously stated. Amazon do not have to adhere to the S.O.G.A.
You simply need to if it ever gets that far turn up to court with item showing its not damaged in anyway and therefore by the laws of probability the item by failing within less than a few years was not of merchantable quality.

It will down to Amazon to prove otherwise. Judges rarely accept that the consumers are liars unless there is evidence to show otherwise
Amazon are also not above the law and therefore like any retailer has to abide by SOGA
blakey74

Amazon are also not above the law and therefore like any retailer has to … Amazon are also not above the law and therefore like any retailer has to abide by SOGA



Yes and SOGA states a reasonable time. You have to prove it had a fault from day of purchase. They have to prove nothing. They have to do nothing. They are doing nothing wrong. Some people need to read SOGA in full and not pick out a small part that seems to agree with their argument.
blakey74

You simply need to if it ever gets that far turn up to court with item … You simply need to if it ever gets that far turn up to court with item showing its not damaged in anyway and therefore by the laws of probability the item by failing within less than a few years was not of merchantable quality.It will down to Amazon to prove otherwise. Judges rarely accept that the consumers are liars unless there is evidence to show otherwise



incorrect,its the buyer that has to prove its faulty with a written report from a expert
We regularly get claims under SOGA where I work. You re rarely going to even think about defending any of these under 1k.

Like I say its all about probability and courts aren't going to accept consumers as liars without strong evidence to support. You do not have prove to anything beyond reasonable doubt. You just have to convince a judge you didnt damage the item and therefore it was not of reasonable quality.

The problem is many people struggle to get their head round how simple it is in reality for the little person to win in the Small claims court.

Id be pretty confident here that if proceedings were issued here they would not even be defended. Whether the OP wishes to bother for the sums involved is another thing.
Proving your claim for faulty goods

If your claim under the Sale of Goods Act ends up in court, you may have to prove that the fault was present when you bought the item and not, for example, something which was the result of normal wear and tear.
If your claim is about a problem that arises within six months of buying the product, it's up to the retailer to prove that the goods were of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose, or as described when it sold them.

For example, by showing that the problem was caused by an external factor such as accidental damage.

Expert's reports

Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.

So, you may need to prove that the fault was not down to ordinary wear and tear or damage you caused, and that the product (or a component) should have lasted longer than it did.

To do this you may need an expert's report, for example, from an engineer or a mechanic.
Like it says you MAY need to prove or you MAY need to get a report there nothing saying you have to. I have paid out many a claim where a judge has found in favour of the consumer simply based on oral evidence.

Like I say all in reality all you need to do is convince a judge that you didn't damage it and the likely hood is they will accept the product wasn't fit for purpose. Wear and tear isn't going to apply to a 16 month old DVD player
Edited by: "blakey74" 26th Jan 2013
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