Animal testing

following on from the hot deal about Iams pet food

hotukdeals.com/for…962

and the "Iams are cruel to animals" posts, I just wonder whether like me people think that some animal testing is justified, putting it as a question:

Would anyone against animal testing deny their children life saving cancer drugs if they had been developed in whole or in part by animal testing?

I understand it's a no brainer for most people, but I wonder if anyone thinks they would let a child die for their principles?

174 Comments

I'm not for or against testing on animals but I guess if it's things like cosmetics and toiletories then it's not really fair

There is a lot of diffrence between Medical Research and testing pet food.... If you asked would i go through what an animal goes through for pet food research for medical research the answer is yes .. would i have both my kidneys removed and be forse fed pet food to see if it contains leathel amounts No and i don't think it is right to do so..... the end must justify the means with animal research

dbilsborough

following on from the hot deal about Iams pet food … following on from the hot deal about Iams pet food ]http://www.hotukdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70962and the "Iams are cruel to animals" posts, I just wonder whether like me people think that some animal testing is justified, putting it as a question:Would anyone against animal testing deny their children life saving cancer drugs if they had been developed in whole or in part by animal testing?I understand it's a no brainer for most people, but I wonder if anyone thinks they would let a child die for their principles?



I’m sure with today’s technology there are other ways to test other then using poor defenseless animals?

Would you also same the same thing if they were testing on Babies/children....didn’t Hitler once test on children ....was this also for the greater good do you think?

Original Poster

A-n-d-y

I’m sure with today’s technology there are other ways to test other then u … I’m sure with today’s technology there are other ways to test other then using poor defenseless animals?Would you also same the same thing if they were testing on Babies/children....didn’t Hitler once test on children ....was this also for the greater good do you think?




ah, but that's the rub, you have changed the question. My question looks at drugs that are already in existance, there are advances that make animal testing obsolete, but for some things there really is no substitute yet.

And to be honest how you make the jump from animal testing to Nazi baby experiments, it was Josef Mengele rather than Hitler by the way...

testing for life saving drugs on animals is often needed and should only be done when needed. But I could never agree with vivisection for testing cosmetics or a dog food. However I don't have a problem with them trying new foods on dogs and cats as long as they are well treated and it is only to measure the benefit to them and this should be none invasive. Keeping animals in bad conditions (for which there is never any justification regardless of the type of testing) and then force feeding them seems wrong to me.

I know Hitler didn’t do it personally but on his orders they did ......anyway I don’t think anybody is going to change anyone’s view on Animal testing/cruelty......

So im of to do something constructive with my time :thumbsup:

Btw they use to have a lab near where my friend lived ....he used to hear Animals screaming in pain ....luckily they are no longer....but this lab was for medical research.



cya

There is no line set in the sand for testing and the rights and wrongs are infernal thats why everyone has such strong options. It is hard to say were the right 'n' wrongs begin and end, I just know that we as a people vote with our custom. "MODS" I'm sorry if i started a riot on the site that was not my intention.

Original Poster

meagain

There is no line set in the sand for testing and the rights and wrongs … There is no line set in the sand for testing and the rights and wrongs are infernal thats why everyone has such strong options. It is hard to say were the right 'n' wrongs begin and end, I just know that we as a people vote with our custom. "MODS" I'm sorry if i started a riot on the site that was not my intention.



I don't think you caused any bad feeling to be honest, as I hope I haven't making this thread. In society in general, things only really get done when people are allowed to voice their opinions on things, and come to a compromise. This is an imotive subject, but it isn't clear cut what is right and what is wrong. In my opinion, animal testing for vanity is wrong, just as wearing fur and general cruelty to animals, but on the other hand I wouldn't want to do without anaesthetics for example and we wouldn't have them without animal testing

I totally disagree with any type of animal eperiments/drugs etc- a animals body is NOT the same as a humans -all it does is put them through torture and horrendous pain and then it doesn't work on humans as their bodies react differently.
I strongly disagree with it in every sense .

Animal testing is necessary. Who would you prefer to die? Your dog ... or your dad.

n1ck09

Animal testing is necessary. Who would you prefer to die? Your dog ... or … Animal testing is necessary. Who would you prefer to die? Your dog ... or your dad.


My dads body isnt the same as a dogs body, and is unlikely to react the same way to certain drugs. I would'nt prefer either of them to die and to be honest my dogs mean just as much to me as my dad. I love them all unconditionally and would'nt wish pain on any of them. Therefore i am TOTALLY against the testing of drugs on animals and even more so against the testing of cosmetics and pet foods...thats just plain ludicrous in my opinion!
P.S who do we test animals drugs on ?

I wonder where your dog vaccines where tested ?

stora

I wonder where your dog vaccines where tested ?


On dogs, to save dogs!

I speak from having experience of the following

a) A daughter who was diagnosed as type 1 diabetic at 2 years

b) A father who has just been diagnosed with bowel cancer.

Treatment for both of these diseases has come on leaps and bounds over the last 20 years.

To further medical science (amongst other things) I believe we have to conduct testing on animals. Sometimes these are rats or other smaller creatures bred purely for this purpose. Without testing and research we would still be in the dark ages.

Most people focus on animals like beagles and rabbits which I agree when you have had one as a pet it is difficult to imagine using one for testing something. However, most testing is done on invertebrates and rodents. The sorts of things you would either stamp on if it was in your home or chase it round and hit it with a spade or similar blunt instrument ;-)

Dont forget that for most drugs to get to humans they also have to get through extensive testing on humans via strict phase I and phase II trials (the riskiest ones that normally require paid volunteers) and phase III trials.

I am not condoning some of the treatment I have seen on documentaries re animal testing merely stating that without some form of it we wouldn't be where we are today.

Therefore i am TOTALLY against the testing of drugs on animals and even … Therefore i am TOTALLY against the testing of drugs on animals and even more so against the testing of cosmetics and pet foods...thats just plain ludicrous in my opinion!




Lulu'sMammy

On dogs, to save dogs!



So are you for the testing of drugs on animals or not ?

stora

So are you for the testing of drugs on animals or not ?


Like i stated on my first post Following on from who would i prefer to die, my father or my dog....i stated,
"Therefore i am TOTALLY against the testing of drugs on animals and even more so against the testing of cosmetics and pet foods...thats just plain ludicrous in my opinion!"
Drugs tested on animals, to save humans, in my mind is of no match, totally different genetic makeup etc etc. Drugs tested on animals to save animals, is a no win situation, its got to be done, to enable early diagnosis of conditions, and therefore to prolong the animals life, in the long run. I do not need my posts analyzing, and would much prefer the testing of drugs done on the scum of the world, rapists, terrorists and the such, instead of seeing rabbits and guinea pigs and the like with half of their faces hanging off!
Just my opinion, if its not liked...well they will always be different opinions.

Lulu'sMammy

Like i stated on my first post Following on from who would i prefer to … Like i stated on my first post Following on from who would i prefer to die, my father or my dog....i stated,"Therefore i am TOTALLY against the testing of drugs on animals and even more so against the testing of cosmetics and pet foods...thats just plain ludicrous in my opinion!"Drugs tested on animals, to save humans, in my mind is of no match, totally different genetic makeup etc etc. Drugs tested on animals to save animals, is a no win situation, its got to be done, to enable early diagnosis of conditions, and therefore to prolong the animals life, in the long run. I do not need my posts analyzing, and would much prefer the testing of drugs done on the scum of the world, rapists, terrorists and the such, instead of seeing rabbits and guinea pigs and the like with half of their faces hanging off!Just my opinion, if its not liked...well they will always be different opinions.




So you are for animal testing. As you say "it's got to be done."

Glad we cleared that up.

It "MAY HAVE TO BE DONE " but we don't have to like it .......that would be cold and sick

From what I read of Lulu's message - I gather shes for animal testing if there only testing on the animals the drugs will be for.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
x

stora

So you are for animal testing. As you say "it's got to be done."Glad we … So you are for animal testing. As you say "it's got to be done."Glad we cleared that up.


YES for the treatment of animals NO for the treatment of humans and the luxuries of cosmetics. As a qualified VET TECHNICIAN i know what im talking about, please dont put words in my mouth, my posts are easy to read, and your in the mood for a row....go and ask your partner for one, coz frankly i cant be arsed!

Becksdawe

From what I read of Lulu's message - I gather shes for animal testing if … From what I read of Lulu's message - I gather shes for animal testing if there only testing on the animals the drugs will be for.Correct me if I'm wrong.x




Yep thats the way I read it too. That is not the same as

Therefore i am TOTALLY against the testing of drugs on animals and even … Therefore i am TOTALLY against the testing of drugs on animals and even more so against the testing of cosmetics and pet foods...thats just plain ludicrous in my opinion!



Which was later added to.

I'm not even gonna get involved in the arguement I feel your trying to cause Stora - bar to say I've read all Lulus post's as shes for animal testing if there only testing on the animals the drugs will be for. Shes against using drugs meant for humans on animals....

Ok thats it - not gonna post on this thread anymore cos I feel its gonna end up getting into a huge arguement.

It's called debate and discussion.

There were no personal attacks although Lulu did try to have a little dig but I can cope with that.;-)

Lulu'sMammy

to be honest my dogs mean just as much to me as my dad.



Honenstly?

n1ck09

Honenstly?


120% without a doubt. They are an important part of our family, i dont agree in having dogs if they are anything but important.

My animals mean more to me than my family and if i had to chose which i would rather have -it would be my animals EVERY time !!!

Test the drugs on Paedophiles, Rapists and other scum bags -NOT innocent animals !!
There are plenty of them about !!!!!!!!!!!

catwoman

Test the drugs on Paedophiles, Rapists and other scum bags -NOT innocent … Test the drugs on Paedophiles, Rapists and other scum bags -NOT innocent animals !!There are plenty of them about !!!!!!!!!!!


Thats what i said lol

catwoman

Test the drugs on Paedophiles, Rapists and other scum bags -NOT innocent … Test the drugs on Paedophiles, Rapists and other scum bags -NOT innocent animals !!There are plenty of them about !!!!!!!!!!!


Now thats a BLOODY good idea!!

jennybubbles

Now thats a BLOODY good idea!!



Something we can all agree on then.

When can we start?

Would anybody like my thoughts on Animal Testing? You won't like them. :whistling:

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catwoman

I totally disagree with any type of animal eperiments/drugs etc- a … I totally disagree with any type of animal eperiments/drugs etc- a animals body is NOT the same as a humans -all it does is put them through torture and horrendous pain and then it doesn't work on humans as their bodies react differently.I strongly disagree with it in every sense .


How do you suggest we do basic scientific tests, like ones for toxicity? At the moment, they're done on rats, which has shown to be effective and reliable for decades and has lead to the careful monitoring of drug dosages and the banning of many cancer-causing chemicals.

What about all the testing of cancer treatments? What about using animals to test to create drugs to prevent a potential Bird Flu epidemic? Do you honestly think killing a few rats isn't worthwhile for saving a few people?

Animal rights-type people are all for ranting and raving about saving the pretty little furry animals, but haven't got a real alternative to replace it. Mainly because there's isn't a real viable alternative.

Oh, wait:
catwoman

Test the drugs on Paedophiles, Rapists and other scum bags -NOT innocent … Test the drugs on Paedophiles, Rapists and other scum bags -NOT innocent animals !!There are plenty of them about !!!!!!!!!!!


What an absolutely moronic statement. I hope for saying things like that you get wrongly convicted and forced to have medical experiments done on you.

I should stop posting here because it just makes me angry to see such short-sightedness.

No i'm all for the testing on Paedophiles, there are plenty out there that are quite open about it it's getting to the stage were it's somthing to be proud of look @ garry glitter for one not to mention the ones living in our comunnitys, Maybe thats why MJ looks the way he does......


Yes dinosteveus give us your thoughts...:)

How can testing on animals be such a success, where are all the cures for Cancer, Cystic Fibrosis, Aids etc etc...? Im sure all these ailments have been tested on some lab rats in the past, and where has it got too? Makes my point complete really, when comparing the Genetic Makeup of a Rat compared to a Human.

Halo

What an absolutely moronic statement. I hope for saying things like that … What an absolutely moronic statement. I hope for saying things like that you get wrongly convicted and forced to have medical experiments done on you.


Ermm slightly harsh for having an opinon don't you think??

jennybubbles

Ermm slightly harsh for having an opinon don't you think??


Some people think, not everyone is allowed an opinion Jen :-D

Lulu'sMammy

Some people think, not everyone is allowed an opinion Jen :-D


Oh right silly me :roll: I forgot its obviously one rue for one and another rule for another when everybody doesn't agree.
FGS Halo what happened to sharing opinions and having a discussion. Clearly anyone who doesn't agree with you is deranged can't imagine how I didn't see it before now :x

[SIZE=2]If testing on Animals can help find a 'cure' or better treatment for my Daughters CF or my partners Diabetes then great. Test on as many Animals as necessary. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Humans are more important than a few Animals, in my opinion.[/SIZE]

dinosteveus

[SIZE=2]If testing on Animals can help find a 'cure' or better treatment … [SIZE=2]If testing on Animals can help find a 'cure' or better treatment for my Daughters CF or my partners Diabetes then great. Test on as many Animals as necessary. [/SIZE][SIZE=2]Humans are more important than a few Animals, in my opinion.[/SIZE]


Not all humans!
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