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    would be willing to offer me some advice via pm please? Concerns ofsted reports

    24 Comments

    Original Poster Banned

    when they have bad results, then it is something i am extremely concerned

    my sons school sends all the bad disruptive kids home (not my son of course) then run around like headless chickens mind you what makes me laugh old head teacher leaves school to become ofsted officer says alot

    send me a pm with ur query and ill ask my brother. He teaches science upto 16 and then A-level biology. I cant get back to u until tomorrow though or maybe later tonight

    im a secondary teacher

    Hi, I am the Chair of govs at a primary school, we had an inspection recently. what your question?

    Original Poster Banned

    Im pretty concerned that my son is moving onto juniour school in september and have just read the ofsted for the school he is supposed to be going to, and they have pretty much all grade 3's. Reading through the report the children are not reaching what they are capable of, this school is also amalgamating in sept and i dont think this is going to help the situation

    sassie;3598583

    Im pretty concerned that my son is moving onto juniour school in … Im pretty concerned that my son is moving onto juniour school in september and have just read the ofsted for the school he is supposed to be going to, and they have pretty much all grade 3's. Reading through the report the children are not reaching what they are capable of, this school is also amalgamating in sept and i dont think this is going to help the situation



    Grade 3's is only satisfactory, not good !

    Original Poster Banned

    plostaff;3599275

    Grade 3's is only satisfactory, not good !



    yes i know that much

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    Original Poster Banned

    hes not at the school yet, the other two schools closest are a bus ride away, and we are talking about 4 years attendance, at the mo i dont work so not a massive problem but that has to change and then it will become a problem. Im just frustrated i dont know what to do, other two schools not a real option and the way im feeling at the moment the closest school isnt an option either

    im not a teacher...hope u get ur problem sorted

    sassie;3599303

    yes i know that much



    If you have read the comments about what happens when an inspection is announced at a school and how a special effort is made, and they can only manage a grade 3 ! Need I say anymore.

    Original Poster Banned

    plostaff;3599602

    If you have read the comments about what happens when an inspection is … If you have read the comments about what happens when an inspection is announced at a school and how a special effort is made, and they can only manage a grade 3 ! Need I say anymore.



    yes i know, i just feel very disappointed at the mo, and probably about to let my son down, so not exactly feeling on top of the world about this

    starsparkle2311;3597975

    Ofsted isn't worth wasting your time on, big joke!!!!!! My kids school … Ofsted isn't worth wasting your time on, big joke!!!!!! My kids school are told when they are coming and the whole school runs round like headless chickens for 2 weeks beforehand, total waste of time. They should come un-announced and get a "true" picture of the school


    This used to be the case. Now we get 2 or 3 days notice. Most teachers prefer this - much less stressful!
    (I'm a teacher BTW!)

    sassie;3599621

    yes i know, i just feel very disappointed at the mo, and probably about … yes i know, i just feel very disappointed at the mo, and probably about to let my son down, so not exactly feeling on top of the world about this



    I agree it is a concern. Would be a good idea to ask the school for their action plan (they have to produce one) to see what they plan to do to remedy the situation. If they have good plans (and they will be inspected on this) the situation might not be as bad as it seems.

    Original Poster Banned

    Susannah;3599676

    I agree it is a concern. Would be a good idea to ask the school for … I agree it is a concern. Would be a good idea to ask the school for their action plan (they have to produce one) to see what they plan to do to remedy the situation. If they have good plans (and they will be inspected on this) the situation might not be as bad as it seems.



    If you could see then end of the report for what s asked you wouldnt have said that, its almost a joke. My son has almost been held back since he started at infants, and comlaining got me no where, now it seems he aint gonna be any better off in the juniors either, the education system and forcing our children into it is strating to sound more like a joke

    Before a visit the OFSTED lead inspector will contact the Headteacher and request a copy of their school evaluation plan (SEF). This document forms the basis of their judgements. I read in the TES that a school were told they were failing based on this document BEFORE any inspections on teaching and learning were even seen.
    This document then provides the focus of their inspection. Also remember, grade 3 is satisfactory. It is NOT poor. Interpretation of satisfactory and the way OFSTED work, always seems satisfactory is not good enough.
    As said before, ask to see a copy of this plan.
    What does the report say about teaching & learning?

    Original Poster Banned

    not poor, theres only one grade left after 3 so i do class 3 as poor


    Quality of provision
    Teaching and learning Grade: 3

    Teachers provide good opportunities for pupils to work collaboratively in pairs and small groups. This contributes positively to their good personal development. Teachers have secure subject knowledge and so are able to explain new ideas and demonstrate new techniques clearly. However, they do not always use questioning effectively to develop pupils' speaking skills by requiring them to answer in an extended sentence, rather than just one word. The good teamwork between adults in classrooms ensures that pupils have a good work rate. Pupils are keen to learn and enjoy their work, saying that lessons are interesting and fun. A few pupils show challenging behaviour but adults manage them well to minimise any disruption to other pupils' learning. Activities do not always challenge pupils of different abilities sufficiently and this reduces the progress they make. Teachers do not use marking consistently as a means of guiding pupils to improve their performance. Teaching assistants give valuable support to all pupils, particularly those with learning difficulties and/or disabilities

    Hi Sassie. Sorry I didn't see this earlier.
    As you know I'm ( did a bit of supply a couple of weeks ago, so not entirely retired!!) a secondary school teacher, so I don't put much store into (SATs or) OFSTED because they haven't figured out how to do value-added yet i.e. how do schools improve on what their pupils might be expected to achieve.
    Made up examples: pupil A super bright goes to a grammar school gets 8 grade A GCSEs but so she should have , so no value-added.
    pupil B has dyslexia and goes to a comp and gets 5Cs , a D and 2 E's better than might be expected due to exceptionally good individual actions plans by school, value-added.

    The quality of provision of the report reads pretty positively well to me.

    Activities do not always challenge pupils of different abilities … Activities do not always challenge pupils of different abilities sufficiently and this reduces the progress they make


    I know that junior schools are supposed to be whizz at differentiated tasks - all the kids do what is individually tailored for them but in the real world, it just isn't possible.
    The worrying one is:

    A few pupils show challenging behaviour but adults manage them well to … A few pupils show challenging behaviour but adults manage them well to minimise any disruption to other pupils'


    This might mean that some classes are chaos. Interestingly, I think it impacts less on the other kids who generally sort of ignore it, but if it occupies teacher & helper time then it's detrimental, although not as much as you might think!! Kids are pretty keen on learning.

    It's a BIG point of contention in the teaching world when satisfactory is interpreted as being unsatisfactory.

    When push comes to shove, if you know in your heart of hearts that your lad would be better off in another school, then you have to make that happen. Bus rides are do-able.
    Just some of my thoughts. xx

    oh yes, just to reiterate ^^ Ofsted inspections are off the cuff now, with a couple of days notice and mainly look at management.

    chesso;3600790

    Hi Sassie. Sorry I didn't see this earlier.As you know I'm ( did a bit of … Hi Sassie. Sorry I didn't see this earlier.As you know I'm ( did a bit of supply a couple of weeks ago, so not entirely retired!!) a secondary school teacher, so I don't put much store into (SATs or) OFSTED because they haven't figured out how to do value-added yet i.e. how do schools improve on what their pupils might be expected to achieve. Made up examples: pupil A super bright goes to a grammar school gets 8 grade A GCSEs but so she should have , so no value-added.pupil B has dyslexia and goes to a comp and gets 5Cs , a D and 2 E's better than might be expected due to exceptionally good individual actions plans by school, value-added.The quality of provision of the report reads pretty positively well to me. I know that junior schools are supposed to be whizz at differentiated tasks - all the kids do what is individually tailored for them but in the real world, it just isn't possible.The worrying one is:This might mean that some classes are chaos. Interestingly, I think it impacts less on the other kids who generally sort of ignore it, but if it occupies teacher & helper time then it's detrimental, although not as much as you might think!! Kids are pretty keen on learning.It's a BIG point of contention in the teaching world when satisfactory is interpreted as being unsatisfactory.When push comes to shove, if you know in your heart of hearts that your lad would be better off in another school, then you have to make that happen. Bus rides are do-able. Just some of my thoughts. xxoh yes, just to reiterate ^^ Ofsted inspections are off the cuff now, with a couple of days notice and mainly look at management.




    Rubbish! I am a senior leader in a secondary school that last week achieved outstanding in 22 out of 26 categories in the new Section 8 inspections. In a sense, we should have no notice inspections to prevent the panic etc. OfSTED are only around to accredit the schools own judgements - In accrediting ours as outstanding, we have light touch inspections as we are deemed able to make judgements about ourselves. By the way, it is a grammar school and value added can easily be demonstrated in a number of ways to ensure that OfSTED recognise the many achievements in our youngsters.

    Furthermore, my last school (again as a senior leader) was a Secondary Modern school and this also was on the cusp of outstanding. Having said that, as a school is judged on the balance of its SEF, some schools are inneccesarily harsh on themselves.

    OfSTED remains a blunt but neccesary tool - we need to know how schools are doing to make an informed judgement about the potential achievement of our own youngsters. But, if schools are too harsh on themselves, OfSTED will simply agree with them - what else can they do if schools do not provide other evidence of their capacity? The best primary in my town is fantastically led and is also a grade 3. It is that because of historical issues but I have huge faith in new staff and a new Head - reading the report and ignoring the numbers is really quite enlightening!!

    My advice; ask to go in...ignore the grades...what do other parents think? How do existing students talk about their school? Are they passionate? Are they proud? Can they tell you what level they are working at (older ones!) Can they tell you what level they need to get to and have they been given clear advice on how to get there? What about parents of existing students? Are they well informed and do they feel part of the school community? Are they engaged with the school, helping to make decisions about its future?

    Beninlincs;3602135

    Rubbish! I am a senior leader in a secondary school that last week … Rubbish! I am a senior leader in a secondary school that last week achieved outstanding in 22 out of 26 categories in the new Section 8 inspections. In a sense, we should have no notice inspections to prevent the panic etc. OfSTED are only around to accredit the schools own judgements - In accrediting ours as outstanding, we have light touch inspections as we are deemed able to make judgements about ourselves. By the way, it is a grammar school and value added can easily be demonstrated in a number of ways to ensure that OfSTED recognise the many achievements in our youngsters.Furthermore, my last school (again as a senior leader) was a Secondary Modern school and this also was on the cusp of outstanding. Having said that, as a school is judged on the balance of its SEF, some schools are inneccesarily harsh on themselves.OfSTED remains a blunt but neccesary tool - we need to know how schools are doing to make an informed judgement about the potential achievement of our own youngsters. But, if schools are too harsh on themselves, OfSTED will simply agree with them - what else can they do if schools do not provide other evidence of their capacity? The best primary in my town is fantastically led and is also a grade 3. It is that because of historical issues but I have huge faith in new staff and a new Head - reading the report and ignoring the numbers is really quite enlightening!!My advice; ask to go in...ignore the grades...what do other parents think? How do existing students talk about their school? Are they passionate? Are they proud? Can they tell you what level they are working at (older ones!) Can they tell you what level they need to get to and have they been given clear advice on how to get there? What about parents of existing students? Are they well informed and do they feel part of the school community? Are they engaged with the school, helping to make decisions about its future?



    Excellent advice!

    Beninlincs;3602135

    Rubbish! I am a senior leader in a secondary school that last week … Rubbish! I am a senior leader in a secondary school that last week achieved outstanding in 22 out of 26 categories in the new Section 8 inspections. In a sense, we should have no notice inspections to prevent the panic etc. OfSTED are only around to accredit the schools own judgements - In accrediting ours as outstanding, we have light touch inspections as we are deemed able to make judgements about ourselves. By the way, it is a grammar school and value added can easily be demonstrated in a number of ways to ensure that OfSTED recognise the many achievements in our youngsters.Furthermore, my last school (again as a senior leader) was a Secondary Modern school and this also was on the cusp of outstanding. Having said that, as a school is judged on the balance of its SEF, some schools are inneccesarily harsh on themselves.OfSTED remains a blunt but neccesary tool - we need to know how schools are doing to make an informed judgement about the potential achievement of our own youngsters. But, if schools are too harsh on themselves, OfSTED will simply agree with them - what else can they do if schools do not provide other evidence of their capacity? The best primary in my town is fantastically led and is also a grade 3. It is that because of historical issues but I have huge faith in new staff and a new Head - reading the report and ignoring the numbers is really quite enlightening!!My advice; ask to go in...ignore the grades...what do other parents think? How do existing students talk about their school? Are they passionate? Are they proud? Can they tell you what level they are working at (older ones!) Can they tell you what level they need to get to and have they been given clear advice on how to get there? What about parents of existing students? Are they well informed and do they feel part of the school community? Are they engaged with the school, helping to make decisions about its future?



    Are you saying that my reply was rubbish? I hope you do not use that particular strategy when responding to viewpoints in your outstanding school. Are you saying that I am not allowed my personal opinion, as a class room science teacher since 1974 who retired in August, that I do not put much store into Ofsted? Does your final paragraph not, effectively, say to ignore Ofsted and go with popular opinion? Are you saying that it is rubbish when I said that Ofsted inspections are off the cuff now, with a couple of days notice and mainly look at management? Was my whole response rubbish or just part of it.? Most of my reply was about the sassie's quality of provision extract; was my response to that rubbish??
    Beninlincs, we clearly disagree as to whether value-added can be easily demonstrated but your retort of rubbish is, I venture to suggest, hyperbolic and obvious!!
    Oh and perhaps you can explain why

    The best primary in my town is fantastically led and is also a grade 3.

    if Ofsed are so good at value-added. You tell me that my response is rubbish but I think you'll agree that your response is inconsistent.

    I'd love to know what age group Beninlincs belongs to. Slight lack of respect there it seems ??

    Reminds me of my English teacher who announced to the class my work was "rubbish" and that I was a "guttersnipe".

    He was right of course, how could he be wrong, he was after all a respected teacher.

    Original Poster Banned

    Ide like to tank you for all your input, i feel a little less frustrated today and as others have said, sometimes its not always about grades. I will be contacting the school on monday to see if i can go in and discuss my concerns. My son is a very bright lad who i feel is already being held back and has been from the reception year really, i dont feel holding my son back is going to do anything other than in time make him become frustrated through boredom, he already reads brilliantly and his top of his class in all subjects but this doesnt mean he should just tag along with those less advanced

    Ide also like to thank two members who have pm'd me and offered me advice off the board, both have made me less worried and more dertermined to give this school a chance. My daughter left this said school some 5 years ago and it was a very good school with good reports then, and maybe given a bit more time will again become better than already is, so again many thanks all xxxxxxxx
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