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    Bad News. Move Across The Country Or Get Made Redudant Help?

    Some bad news today, my work is being relocated to another part of the country. Here is the info we have had today. Any help or advice will be grateful. I will not nam the companies I work for or who are involved.

    Basically the opening paragraph states the campaign being handled by us the outscoure company in MANCHESTER is being moved in house to GLASGOW.

    As a result of this both companies have agreed that TUPE is applicable. WHAT THIS MEANS IS:

    TUPE is: Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regulations 2006.

    The regualtions aim to protect employees when there is a trasnfer of an undertaking business from one employee to another.

    Employees who will have a right to transfer are those employed in the undertaking business (or part thereof) to be transferred immediately prior to the transfer date.

    The regualtions protect employment rights and in particular terms and conditions of employment.

    Where TUPE applies employees have the right to trasnfer on the same terms and conditions (excluding pensions for which different rules apply)

    This is all well and good but as you can see GLASGOW is miles away from MANCHESTER. This will not be possible for many of us who have families and is not possible to relocate. The company do have sites closer to home but there is no mention of moving to any of these. This would be more suitable to me if I could get work at the other sites.

    Whilst TUPE is applicable and as such your role will trasnfer to GLASGOW, we acknowledged that due to geographical location of GLASGOW you may not wish to transfer to this location.

    Should you not wish to trasnfer to GLASGOW, We the outscoure company will consider redeployment oppurtunity available with the outscoure company. However should there not be suitable redeployment oppurtunity within the outscource company you should be aware that this could result in your role being at risk of redundancy.

    Can you please complete the section at the end of this letter if you wish to transfer to GLASGOW, or if you wish to object to this TUPE transfer and consider redeployment with the outscoure company.

    The section states that if I reject the TUPE to GLASGOW I will understand that I will not be entitled to any severance payment, wether contractual or statutory from the company in GLASGOW or the outscoure who I work for in MANCHESTER. It also states on there I need to sign this by the 28th May 2009. This seems well unfair to be able to make an decison like this and forcing people to say NO and this will forefit any redundnacies pays. Can some enlighten me on this any use seeking advice on this part in particualr. I have some kind of insurance which covers accident sickness unemployment but will this pay out for me?

    Carrying on key dates involved with this process are:

    28th May 2009 Notifaction of request to transfer or objection to trasnfer
    13th July 2009 121 Consultation commences.
    11th August 2009 Ramp down of campaign commences
    9th October Campaign closes.

    They are also asking for 3 employees for the TUPE consultation process. So I would like all information I can get to help us with this.

    So if anybody who has expierence in this field or have any advice, or can spot anything which is not being done right please respond in this thread.

    We have also been given an Frequently asked questions check list. Ill pick out the most important ones.

    If I am unable to trasnfer to o2 what will happen to my employment?

    If you are unable or do not wish to trasnfer to o2 you can object to the trasnfer at which point you will remain at the outscoure company employee and we will continue to review redeployment oppurtunities with you.

    However should there not be a suitable redeployment oppurtunity available you should be aware that you would be risk at risk of redundancy or you effectivelt resign. Thereofre your employment will be terminated on 9th October 2009.

    Same again by rejecting to the move to GLASGOW why would I be declining any redundncy pay as well this seems well unfair.

    Will everyone on the campaign who cannot transfer to o2 be made redundant?

    We will continue to review redeployment businsses oppurtunities. If required we will apply a criteria which will be agreed between the employee reps and the outscoure management team.

    This seems fair but what will this criteria be? I am one of the high earners on this capmaign would this put me at an higher risk?

    Thats it for now we have to of course accept or reject the move to GLASGOW by 28th May 2009, therefore rejecting redudnacy pay. So this is the big stumbling block for me so far, any advice on this before the 28th may 09 will be helpful.

    Thanks for taking your time to read this today!

    17 Comments

    Original Poster

    any help or advice will be grateful

    Where I used to work they change the shifts on us and told us we HAD to work them.
    We called one of the unions and they said if the company can prove a 'business need'?? then there was nothing we could do about it.

    You need to see someone who specialises in employment law. Too important to get it wrong!

    similiar happened to o/h a few years ago - although distance wasnt as far

    he was offered a package to move - solicitors and estate fees - removal costs - buying certain items etc

    could be a good move as living in scotland does have bonus of free university etc - if you have children

    try to find out if future looks good for company - especially as you work for outsourced one

    also got to take into consideration of your partner - hard decision for you - it was for us

    Crikey - OK you have got a wee bit of thinking to do...

    First of all TUPE is regulation that came into effect around 2006, its aim is to protect employees' terms and conditions when a business or undertaking, or part of one, is transferred to a new employer. ... (Basically what you have described above) In effect what that means is that you shouldn't be disadvantaged ......
    berr.gov.uk/fil…pdf (That is a 32 page guide should you feel the need for such a lenghty document)
    HOWEVER, what you need to think about is the re-loaction - I was once in a similar position to you buddy - and in some ways I regret so much not re-locating with my previous employer as I was soooo happy in that job, and I always look back and think "What if"

    BUT - that isn't to say that you will do the same. I chose NOT to relocate and took the Voluntary Redundancy (it was voluntary as technically I wasn't being made redundant - as my job still existed - it just happened to be in the middle of the Country now!)

    Enough about me - what is tricky is deciding what realistically your chances are of gaining alternative employment in and around your local area.

    I would imagine that Manchester has pretty vibrant employment -and remember the property prices too - as if you do decide to go and decide its not for you and want to move back, you may find that the prices of property where oyu live have gone up considerably since you left for what is in effect almost a different country....
    Erm, have a chat with the o/h and family - you could suck it and see... Rent out your place, take the job, rent out a place to live there and see how it goes, in the meantime keep looking in Manchester etc...
    The TUPE bit is what they have to do by law......

    Banned

    cloudthecat;5084507

    Erm, have a chat with the o/h and family - you could suck it and see... … Erm, have a chat with the o/h and family - you could suck it and see... Rent out your place, take the job, rent out a place to live there and see how it goes, in the meantime keep looking in Manchester etc...The TUPE bit is what they have to do by law......



    I was going to suggest that with your important comment on property pricing currently.

    I would certainly talk to your union rep or a solicitor, I dont understadn fully everything you've said, because theres a lot of information there that would need sorting through.

    A lot of solicitors do a free 30 min consultation, Get a day where you're free and make appointments for as many as you can-theres no obligation (ive been for a few) and you could get some real good advice for free and a better idea of where to go next.

    Best of luck love, you should write to Gordon Brown and tell him what you think.

    A similar thing is happening to my uncle, he's been with them for 26 years and they were trying to fob him off about redundancy pay, so I had a scoot around and found this

    consumeractiongroup.co.uk/for…tml

    If you skim down to the bit in green, it goes on about if there are reasonable circumstances as to why you can't relocate with the company, then you are entitled to redundancy payment. Still seek legal advice to confirm this though, just incase

    Sounds to me as if money were not an issue you would not consider it. If that is true then you need to work out what is more important, money or other aspects of your life.
    A move may open new doors but your workplace is not a limb and there is nothing to say that if you uproot at the moment there might not be another change of similar proportions further down the line. Talk to your family and friends if you are close. Making the move on the basis of money alone is a risky move.

    Original Poster

    Well me and my girlfreind and daughter are not going to leave MERSEYSIDE to go and leave are family behind and go an live in GLASGOW for the sake of this job.

    My main question is they are saying if I dont accept the offer of an move they are making me sign this form which will also state an refusal to move to GLASGOW will also result in no redundancy pay.

    Original Poster

    My employment is in Altrincham outskirts of Manchester, however I live 25 miles away. So its already an hike to get to work. Anyway going to GLASGOW is out the question.

    cloudthecat;5084507

    Crikey - OK you have got a wee bit of thinking to do...First of all TUPE … Crikey - OK you have got a wee bit of thinking to do...First of all TUPE is regulation that came into effect around 2006, its aim is to protect employees' terms and conditions when a business or undertaking, or part of one, is transferred to a new employer. ... (Basically what you have described above) In effect what that means is that you shouldn't be disadvantaged ......http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file20761.pdf (That is a 32 page guide should you feel the need for such a lenghty document)HOWEVER, what you need to think about is the re-loaction - I was once in a similar position to you buddy - and in some ways I regret so much not re-locating with my previous employer as I was soooo happy in that job, and I always look back and think "What if"BUT - that isn't to say that you will do the same. I chose NOT to relocate and took the Voluntary Redundancy (it was voluntary as technically I wasn't being made redundant - as my job still existed - it just happened to be in the middle of the Country now!)Enough about me - what is tricky is deciding what realistically your chances are of gaining alternative employment in and around your local area.I would imagine that Manchester has pretty vibrant employment -and remember the property prices too - as if you do decide to go and decide its not for you and want to move back, you may find that the prices of property where oyu live have gone up considerably since you left for what is in effect almost a different country....Erm, have a chat with the o/h and family - you could suck it and see... Rent out your place, take the job, rent out a place to live there and see how it goes, in the meantime keep looking in Manchester etc...The TUPE bit is what they have to do by law......

    OK - so you are not moving - the bit you need to look at is the 'voluntary redundancy' part (as in the job isn't redundant, but you don't want to move therefore it is voluntary)...

    So, for Redundancy to come in, as you will be aware you have to be with your employer for quite some time - the statatory redundancy pay is very low indeed - most company's try to give you more than the Govt standard, but I can't comment on what your employer will choose to do obvioulsy.

    You are not entitled to that much actually, which is why most conscientious employers increase it - but your Union - or similar will be in discussion with your employer about this as they have to by law - you can't just make people redundant anymore when it affects over ??% of the workforce - there has to be a sort of counselling and meeting and discussion and so on....
    Best thing you can do is to start to look for work NOW! IMMEDIATELY! If you are fortunate enough to find some fantastic - your company will probably pay you the redundancy anyway - if you hold off looking for work on the anticipation of getting a big net of tax pay cheque - you may live to regret it - as all of the others that are doing the same will also be chasing the same roles etc, and believe me it doesn't last long no matter how much you get.....
    xxxxx

    check your employment contract for a mobility clause, same sort of thing happened to me and they had no clause in my contract but still had to fight them and ended up really stressed over it, only the company i worked for was only moving about 80 miles away, i found acas and cab very useful for advice..

    Original Poster

    Yes the main part for now is there after the from in for 11th may.

    I can either sign to say yes ill takethe move to glasgow.

    OR

    If I say no to the move I am also saying no to any redundancy pay.

    This cant be right, and I dont want to sign to say no and have no redudnacy pay

    Check the terms and conditions of this offer, as many companies will pay for independant legal advice. I would ask, and go see an employment law specialist.

    try acas,

    these guys are employment right group that help with virtually anything employment related online at [url]www.acas.org.uk[/url]
    or via phone on 08457 474 747

    they are brill!

    nitelighter;5086950

    try acas, these guys are employment right group that help with virtually … try acas, these guys are employment right group that help with virtually anything employment related online at ]www.acas.org.uk or via phone on 08457 474 747they are brill!


    That's not a bad shout at all really! I remember using them in the past.......

    Give them a ring it wont hurt after all!

    Happy to help you if needed.

    Cloud.

    xxxx

    Original Poster

    yes I think I will over the weekend

    thanks guys for now
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