being paid when accompanying a client on holiday (care worker)

22
LocalFound 7th Mar 2016
Hoping someone on here is more in the know about this than me!

I'm a support worker for a severely disabled man (his condition means he can move his forefinger and thumbs, but cannot move is any other way), I'm employed by a private care company, he has 24 hour care compromised of a 12 hour day shift (which I do) , and a 12 hour waking night shift.

He is going on holiday to France for a week in April, and obviously needs carers to go with him, one of which is me and a colleague of mine who will do the night shifts whilst there.

I'm wondering whether my colleague and I should be paid for 24 hours a day, as we are away from home and residing in a place of work 24/7.

On my clients previous holidays, the carers that accompanied him have been paid for 24 hours each day, but this time I'm being told that we will only be paid for 12 hours each day.

Anyone able to shed some light on legislation regarding this?
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I remember years ago when i did caring for learning disabilities i worked 8 hr shifts & went on holiday with them to disneyland & only got paid my 8 hr shift but was given extra money 4 food 4 myself which i had to provide receipts for everything upon my return , hope this helps it mite av changed now as this was 10 years ago
mmmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeee

I remember years ago when i did caring for learning disabilities i worked … I remember years ago when i did caring for learning disabilities i worked 8 hr shifts & went on holiday with them to disneyland & only got paid my 8 hr shift but was given extra money 4 food 4 myself which i had to provide receipts for everything upon my return , hope this helps it mite av changed now as this was 10 years ago



​Thanks, obviously I know different companies will offer different policies/incentives, hoping someone knows some kind of legal legislation that exists.
My feeling would be like in any job that requires you to work away from home the general rule is, they recompense you for any travel and reasonable food and accommodation costs. as you are not working the other 12 hours they would not need to pay you for it, as long as you can do what you want, for instance go in to town. if they require you to stay in the house for the 12 hours you are not working then they should pay you for it.

For instance, the Army don't pay you 24 hours a day, neither do retail regional travelling regional managers etc, however all their travel, food and accommodation is paid for.

Legally they sound like they are in the right, as long as they are paying expenses.
Given you live at home when caring for the person how is your contract worded in regard to going on holiday with them. as this is a seperate type of caring and does inconvienience and cost more for the carers who are away from home?
Is it actually written into your contract if no requirement has been written you are not obliged to comply?






Edited by: "arachnoid" 7th Mar 2016
You should speak with your union or with ACAS for formal advice. Have your contract on hand when you do.
chezzy

My feeling would be like in any job that requires you to work away from … My feeling would be like in any job that requires you to work away from home the general rule is, they recompense you for any travel and reasonable food and accommodation costs. as you are not working the other 12 hours they would not need to pay you for it, as long as you can do what you want, for instance go in to town. if they require you to stay in the house for the 12 hours you are not working then they should pay you for it. For instance, the Army don't pay you 24 hours a day, neither do retail regional travelling regional managers etc, however all their travel, food and accommodation is paid for.Legally they sound like they are in the right, as long as they are paying expenses.



​My company are also insisting that we pay for our own food, which with the nearest shop being 8 miles away, and we will have no transport will be difficult to do.

Accommodation is not a problem as we are staying with my clients family.

My shift will launch from 9am to 9pm, so that doesn't allow time to do my own thing, I will likely be going to bed after each shift.

arachnoid

Given you live at home when caring for the person how is your contract … Given you live at home when caring for the person how is your contract worded in regard to going on holiday with them. as this is a seperate type of caring and does inconvienience and cost more for the carers who are away from home?Is it actually written into your contract if no requirement has been written you are not obliged to comply?



​It is not mentioned in my contract about holidays, nor is there a policy within the company for it.
chezzy

My feeling would be like in any job that requires you to work away from … My feeling would be like in any job that requires you to work away from home the general rule is, they recompense you for any travel and reasonable food and accommodation costs. as you are not working the other 12 hours they would not need to pay you for it, as long as you can do what you want, for instance go in to town. if they require you to stay in the house for the 12 hours you are not working then they should pay you for it. For instance, the Army don't pay you 24 hours a day, neither do retail regional travelling regional managers etc, however all their travel, food and accommodation is paid for.Legally they sound like they are in the right, as long as they are paying expenses.


I have to correct you...
Any armed forces personnel are paid a fixed wage and, although in most normal everyday instances will be "eligible" to only "work" 8hrs a day, can be "working" 24hrs a day/7days a week.
I myself have been on duty (working) continuously and without sleep for just under 3 days.
boats92

​It is not mentioned in my contract about holidays, nor is there a policy … ​It is not mentioned in my contract about holidays, nor is there a policy within the company for it.



Has this occoured before with any other carers at your company?
As there is no mention in your contract of employmernt it would have been more correct for the company to ask you if you would do it then if your were in agreement.negotiate extra payment for expenses and being away from home.
Are you happy to do the caring if they negotiate extra paymernt?
What did they say when the client asked for your attendance away from home?
Is you manager ammenable to talking the issue over?
Are they charging the client extra for you both being away from home?


Edited by: "arachnoid" 8th Mar 2016
arachnoid

Has this occoured before with any other carers at your company?As there … Has this occoured before with any other carers at your company?As there is no mention in your contract of employmernt it would have been more correct for the company to ask you if you would do it then if your were in agreement.negotiate extra payment for expenses and being away from home.Are you happy to do the caring if they negotiate extra paymernt?What did they say when the client asked for your attendance away from home?Is you manager ammenable to talking the issue over?Are they charging the client extra for you both being away from home?



​Yes, my client has been on holiday twice before with 2 carers, who were all paid for 24 hours per day.

I'll be doing the caring even if they don't negotiate extra payment, I have a duty of care to this client, it would just be nice to have a little extra, you know?

I'm currently in talks with management, over email, to try and reason with them so we're all happy.
My mums a care worker, She often does 24 hour shifts but only gets paid for 12 I think, I don't think that's fair but then I guess you're sleeping for a portion of it, Albeit with one eye open.

Imo they should pay 15-16 hours and perhaps a reduced rate for the hours you sleep, That's just my opinion.

Is it compulsory that you go with your client?

What a sad situation for your client. Must be very hard enjoying the pleasures of life when limited to the use of only forefingers and thumbs.
Argoj

Is it compulsory that you go with your client?



​Not compulsory as such, no. But me and the other carer going are the only 2 that can realistically do it, one colleague has another client they care for, and the other is heavily pregnant. So if I didn't go he'd have to go with a carer who is a complete stranger, and I wouldn't want that to happen.
Surely the company you work for has had this occour many times before besides the instance you mention,they must have a procedure in place as It seems highly unfair that you not only would be out of packet but highly inconvenienced.
Just to add I applaud your attitude and dedication to your client you are a credit to your proffesion.
Edited by: "arachnoid" 9th Mar 2016
I would think you would need to be paid for your 12 hour day rate and surely an on call rate for the other 12 hours as I am sure you would get up for him if you are there. I know someone who is a carer and normally works days but for sleepovers there is a flat rate of £30 per night. If your not happy, can you refuse to go as I reckon someone else might love to go despite the silly money. Doesn't seem fair to me as you won't be living your normal life at all whilst away.
As people say it depends what's in your contract of employment, but would imagine they've checked that before telling you they will only pay you for your normal shift. Private companies in care mostly look after profits leave the caring to people like yourself and pay you as little as possible.

However as you are away from home you should ask for working away daily allowance, argument being that you can't go home and do your usual routine so therefore will incur additional cost.

Good luck with trying to get them to the decent thing and hope you have a nice time in France.
Speak with ACAS gov.uk/pay…hts
jude7219

I would think you would need to be paid for your 12 hour day rate and … I would think you would need to be paid for your 12 hour day rate and surely an on call rate for the other 12 hours as I am sure you would get up for him if you are there. I know someone who is a carer and normally works days but for sleepovers there is a flat rate of £30 per night. If your not happy, can you refuse to go as I reckon someone else might love to go despite the silly money. Doesn't seem fair to me as you won't be living your normal life at all whilst away.


I can refuse to go, but as I said before if I don't go, my client will have to go with a carer he's never met before, which I don't want to happen.


ANDYwwww987

As people say it depends what's in your contract of employment, but would … As people say it depends what's in your contract of employment, but would imagine they've checked that before telling you they will only pay you for your normal shift. Private companies in care mostly look after profits leave the caring to people like yourself and pay you as little as possible.However as you are away from home you should ask for working away daily allowance, argument being that you can't go home and do your usual routine so therefore will incur additional cost. Good luck with trying to get them to the decent thing and hope you have a nice time in France.


I've tried telling my manager "we can't do our normal routinely things that we would at home", she came back with "you wouldn't have your normal routine on any holiday", in a polite way I told her that it's not my f-ing holiday, I can't just do as I please, my client needs someone with him 24/7, didn't work!

Thanks everyone, I'll speak to ACAS and keep fighting my corner with management!
You say you are staying with the clients family, i'm sure they will be able to help out ? You have to be a bit flexible especially being a carer, lots of people have to work longer hours unpaid or travel and stay overnight, it's quite normal. I say just enjoy the break, it is that much of an inconvenience to you ?
They should be paying an unsociability allowance as well as all expenses you are in all intense and purposes "at work" for the total of the clients holiday.As you have stated it is not your holiday so they should compensate you for the inconvienience.
From your response its obvious your manager has never dealt with this situation before and is making assumptions based on poor information and use of non contractual agreements.
If they quote what others have agreed for such cover Its irrelevent as any agreement is on a personal basis and non-contractual.Just because you agree once does not bind you to do it again as it is outside your contract,nor can they forcably change your contract to add this service without mutual agreement.
You can force the issue by stating in writing to the management unless you are compensated in some way for the unsociability you are not contractually obligated to provide this service.

Edited by: "arachnoid" 10th Mar 2016
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