Boiler Switching off

34
Posted 1st Nov
Hi All - our boiler which was working fine until yesterday have stopped working - I mean it switches on and then switches off in couple of minutes and then restarts in like 10-15 minutes and switches off.

I called the emergency insurance company - the engineer told me that mid valve requires replacement but then reported to the company that it requires power flush and the insurance company have now said that power flush is not covered under emergency cover so they won’t repair anything now.

Do you think Powerflush is necessary given all the radiators are working perfectly?

Any help would go long way as my wife is 8th month pregnant and we are really thin on such expenses where we can’t afford such out of the blue £500-£600 power flush cost.

Regards,
Vivek
Community Updates
Ask

Groups

34 Comments
Phone another engineer and get there opinion. Call out fee would normally be £60.
Are all the radiators hot (the same temp and free from cold spots) from top to bottom?
Edited by: "OllieSt" 1st Nov
I would say insurance company are scamming you in to more work then needed. Demand they get it fixed or your report them to watchdog and every social media out there. Dont take no for answers and ask them where it states you need a power flush in the contract.
OllieSt01/11/2019 23:38

Are all the radiators hot (the same temp and free from cold spots) from …Are all the radiators hot (the same temp and free from cold spots) from top to bottom?


Yes all radiators are fine from top to bottom that’s why surprised if I need to get power flush done at all.
devshib01/11/2019 23:46

I would say insurance company are scamming you in to more work then …I would say insurance company are scamming you in to more work then needed. Demand they get it fixed or your report them to watchdog and every social media out there. Dont take no for answers and ask them where it states you need a power flush in the contract.


They did not specify on my contract but in their own policy booklet which they never supplied me it says power flush is not covered. My point is, do I even need power flush?
freedeals2102/11/2019 00:01

They did not specify on my contract but in their own policy booklet which …They did not specify on my contract but in their own policy booklet which they never supplied me it says power flush is not covered. My point is, do I even need power flush?



Reading what you said, the engineer told you that mid valve requires replacement, isn't your question to the engineer thus: would replacing the mid valve fixes the start/stop issue without a power flush amd is this covered by the emergency insurance? And, try this replacement first.
splender02/11/2019 00:08

Reading what you said, the engineer told you that mid valve requires …Reading what you said, the engineer told you that mid valve requires replacement, isn't your question to the engineer thus: would replacing the mid valve fixes the start/stop issue without a power flush amd is this covered by the emergency insurance? And, try this replacement first.


The challenge is engineer didn’t tell me anything about power flush and told me that changing the valve will correct the boiler but then when I called the insurance company they said about power flush and won’t send the engineer again to show me or prove me that it’s not valve but power flush
freedeals2102/11/2019 00:12

The challenge is engineer didn’t tell me anything about power flush and t …The challenge is engineer didn’t tell me anything about power flush and told me that changing the valve will correct the boiler but then when I called the insurance company they said about power flush and won’t send the engineer again to show me or prove me that it’s not valve but power flush



Your next step is to give the insurance company this:: Either send that engineer to fix the named fault (without a power flush) as covered by insurance terms, or you call another engineer to fix, this fix would be covered by the policy as stated. If this other enginer did fix the fault (as covered by policy), ask manager/team leader of insurance company if this cost would be refunded as the work could have being under the insurance cover.
freedeals2102/11/2019 00:12

The challenge is engineer didn’t tell me anything about power flush and t …The challenge is engineer didn’t tell me anything about power flush and told me that changing the valve will correct the boiler but then when I called the insurance company they said about power flush and won’t send the engineer again to show me or prove me that it’s not valve but power flush


Who is the insurance company and how much are you paying per month? A powerflush is for the partial removal of sludge from around the CH system. If the radiators are as described you don't need a powerflush.
Try turning down the radiator temperature dial on the boiler if it has one
38881601-zGNsa.jpg
freedeals2102/11/2019 00:12

The challenge is engineer didn’t tell me anything about power flush and t …The challenge is engineer didn’t tell me anything about power flush and told me that changing the valve will correct the boiler but then when I called the insurance company they said about power flush and won’t send the engineer again to show me or prove me that it’s not valve but power flush


The ins co is likely suggesting the valve issue has been caused by chemical contaminants within the system.
If this is the case I doubt they would consider any further similar or unrelated boiler repair claims until a flush has been completed.

freedeals2102/11/2019 00:01

... My point is, do I even need power flush?


Most credible sources recommend power flush every 5-6 years, so thwart the ins co and prove that a power flush is not required by supplying the receipt for the most recent power flush completed within the last five years.
I had this exact same problem. It was a loose thermistor which I reseated and problem disappeared
splender02/11/2019 00:21

Your next step is to give the insurance company this:: Either send that …Your next step is to give the insurance company this:: Either send that engineer to fix the named fault (without a power flush) as covered by insurance terms, or you call another engineer to fix, this fix would be covered by the policy as stated. If this other enginer did fix the fault (as covered by policy), ask manager/team leader of insurance company if this cost would be refunded as the work could have being under the insurance cover.


"as covered by insurance terms" may also be "as excluded by insurance terms". Below is an extract from random boiler insurer Homeserve's t&c. Note the word "may" in first sentence, not "will":
"...the engineer when dealing with your system, may complete the repair but diagnose that additional maintenance work is required to your boiler and/or central heating system in order to prevent a future breakdown. For example; maintenance work can include circumstances where there is a build up of sludge/scale/rust resulting in your boiler/and central heating system needing cleaning. As this maintenance work is not covered under this policy, it is your responsibility to have it completed. We will notify you and confirm by letter that this work needs to be completed. Until the maintenance work is carried out we will be unable to offer any cover for the affected part of your system. To avoid you paying for cover you no longer have,you should get this maintenance work completed as soon as possible. Please provide us with evidence in writing of the work having been completed in order for us to reinstate your cover..."
Once you have resolved this and got them to sort it, cancel the insurance and put the money into a bank account each month. These insurances aren’t generally worth the paper they are written on as you’ve found out, there will be all sorts of clauses to let them escape doing anything.

Why not get a quote from a local boiler engineer for a mid valve replacement you might find it costs less.

From a quick google this looks like part of the water plumbing and not part of the gas bit so should be easily fixable with basic plumbing skills. The reason a power flush has been recommended likely is because they will be draining the system down to replace this part here is an example of a motorised mid valve screwfix.com/p/h…421

You would need to find one to match your boiler.
Edited by: "cmdr_elito" 2nd Nov
Reading your original post, sounds like the engineer didn't even come out to have a look & made the diagnosis over the phone
I'm not a heating engineer but have had problems in the past, it does sound like a thermistor problem as chocci pointed out.
I did some further test and run and what happens is boiler comes on when the hot water is started and then in couple of minutes it stops. If I don’t start the hot water the boiler does not start. That seems weird. It might be a thermostat problem then because the thermostat might be passing on the message that the temperature is achieved!
Sludge is the easiest get out for all insurance companies, and increasingly boiler warranties. How much are you paying for insurance?

If I bought a car for £200 I'd expect problems.
Go back and ask them to replace the valve under the insurance agreement. If they refuse ask this to be taken through their complaints procedures. If there is an ombudsman at the end of the process they will most likely replace the valve as it costs most companies around £600 when a complaint is escalated.
freedeals2102/11/2019 08:51

I did some further test and run and what happens is boiler comes on when …I did some further test and run and what happens is boiler comes on when the hot water is started and then in couple of minutes it stops. If I don’t start the hot water the boiler does not start. That seems weird. It might be a thermostat problem then because the thermostat might be passing on the message that the temperature is achieved!



I am guessing here, if your radiators are heating up OK, and the boiler fires up for the radiator. Therefore, it could be the diverter valve, or that mid-valve. It is less likely some thermal sensor.
splender02/11/2019 10:05

I am guessing here, if your radiators are heating up OK, and the boiler …I am guessing here, if your radiators are heating up OK, and the boiler fires up for the radiator. Therefore, it could be the diverter valve, or that mid-valve. It is less likely some thermal sensor.


I doubt the radiators heat up within a couple of minutes. The thermistor measures the water temperature and if the thermal paste dries up, then it gives a high reading too quickly and turns the heating off within a few minutes .
freedeals2102/11/2019 08:51

I did some further test and run and what happens is boiler comes on when …I did some further test and run and what happens is boiler comes on when the hot water is started and then in couple of minutes it stops. If I don’t start the hot water the boiler does not start. That seems weird. It might be a thermostat problem then because the thermostat might be passing on the message that the temperature is achieved!


I’d tend to agree that it could be the CH diverter valve too.
38883304-Hfjih.jpg
You should have 2, 1 controlling the HW and the other the CH. Determine which is which by listening to them when they switch on or feel any vibration or feel the pipes either side which ones are equally hot.
Inside there is a spring that moves a diamond shape ‘paddle’ from one side to another which when working properly forms a contact which alerts the valve to open. Sometimes the spring gets stuck, so try lubricating the spring with WD40. One screw holds the silver valve lid on which should then slide/pull of easily. The valve also has a manual slide lever on one side, you could try moving that across to the open position first to see if that motivates the valve to works.
"flush is not covered under emergency cover "
If you aren't getting heating and hot water I would argue that and if it's not emergency cover get it fixed under standard cover.
greenyblades02/11/2019 09:34

Go back and ask them to replace the valve under the insurance agreement. …Go back and ask them to replace the valve under the insurance agreement. If they refuse ask this to be taken through their complaints procedures. If there is an ombudsman at the end of the process they will most likely replace the valve as it costs most companies around £600 when a complaint is escalated.


I am surely complaining and get it repaired on my own and going to escalate it really high up the food chain. I also have ISA worth £35K with this company. Sainsbury’s Bank and I am taking it all out and moving to a different ISA.
Edited by: "freedeals21" 2nd Nov
splender02/11/2019 10:05

I am guessing here, if your radiators are heating up OK, and the boiler …I am guessing here, if your radiators are heating up OK, and the boiler fires up for the radiator. Therefore, it could be the diverter valve, or that mid-valve. It is less likely some thermal sensor.


You were bang on - I got a private Plumber/Engineer to come and have a look and it is Mid Valve. They are going to charge me like £285 with valve replacement, putting some chemical in the system and replacing the valve.
freedeals2102/11/2019 15:19

You were bang on - I got a private Plumber/Engineer to come and have a …You were bang on - I got a private Plumber/Engineer to come and have a look and it is Mid Valve. They are going to charge me like £285 with valve replacement, putting some chemical in the system and replacing the valve.


Controversial it may be, but I would be claiming back my direct debits for the payment of this insurance up to the £285 cost you have incurred. I would tell the bank that the payments went through in error and you had just noticed.

I would tell the insurance company what you have done and if they have an issue with it I would just tell them that you cannot be expected to pay for a policy that does not pay out when required.

To dramatically assist your situation I would get the private plumber to confirm in writing no powerflush was performed or required.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 2nd Nov
OllieSt02/11/2019 20:09

Controversial it may be, but I would be claiming back my direct debits for …Controversial it may be, but I would be claiming back my direct debits for the payment of this insurance up to the £285 cost you have incurred. I would tell the bank that the payments went through in error and you had just noticed. I would tell the insurance company what you have done and if they have an issue with it I would just tell them that you cannot be expected to pay for a policy that does not pay out when required. To dramatically assist your situation I would get the private plumber to confirm in writing no powerflush was performed or required.


Hey I am asking the plumber to do that, but challenge is I was dumb enough to pay upfront on my credit card which has now passed 10 months so can’t even dispute it now.
freedeals2102/11/2019 21:31

Hey I am asking the plumber to do that, but challenge is I was dumb enough …Hey I am asking the plumber to do that, but challenge is I was dumb enough to pay upfront on my credit card which has now passed 10 months so can’t even dispute it now.


I cannot see why a Section 75 refund would not be applicable here if the cost was over £100. I don't think 10 months has anything to do with the situation. I assume you bought 12 months insurance, it's no different from buying any other product that you would have an issue with after 10 months. You basically have a problem with the product you purchased using your credit card.

8 month pregnant wife, non response from insurance company would perfectly explain why you needed to act quickly. I would be unsure if your claim would be for the cost of your insurance or the £285 for the repair.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 2nd Nov
OllieSt02/11/2019 21:36

I cannot see why a Section 75 refund would not be applicable here if the …I cannot see why a Section 75 refund would not be applicable here if the cost was over £100. I don't think 10 months has anything to do with the situation. I assume you bought 12 months insurance, it's no different from buying any other product that you would have an issue with after 10 months. 8 month pregnant wife, non response from insurance company would perfectly explain why you needed to act quickly. I would be unsure if your claim would be for the cost of your insurance or the £285 for the repair.


Actually I have even closed down that Amex card, I checked after I messaged you. The insurance amount was £146. I think you are perfectly right the thing will be should I charge £146 or £285 but I think I can’t charge back more than what I paid for..
freedeals2102/11/2019 21:42

Actually I have even closed down that Amex card, I checked after I …Actually I have even closed down that Amex card, I checked after I messaged you. The insurance amount was £146. I think you are perfectly right the thing will be should I charge £146 or £285 but I think I can’t charge back more than what I paid for..


Closing down the Amex card makes no difference.
OllieSt02/11/2019 21:44

Closing down the Amex card makes no difference.


Yeah you are right and you are a Star. I will first write the CEO for the claim and if nothing happens then I will charge back on my card!
OllieSt02/11/2019 21:44

Closing down the Amex card makes no difference.


You are truly a Hero, no matter what happens but thanks a ton for helping and thinking about it..
freedeals2102/11/2019 21:48

You are truly a Hero, no matter what happens but thanks a ton for helping …You are truly a Hero, no matter what happens but thanks a ton for helping and thinking about it..


No problem. The more I think about it the more I reckon your claim should/could/would be £285.

If the customer has incurred any costs relating to the problems with goods or services, we'll consider whether it's reasonable for you to reimburse these costs.
freedeals2102/11/2019 15:19

You were bang on - I got a private Plumber/Engineer to come and have a …You were bang on - I got a private Plumber/Engineer to come and have a look and it is Mid Valve. They are going to charge me like £285 with valve replacement, putting some chemical in the system and replacing the valve.



sounds like the insurance company is fobbing you off. powerflush deals with radiators, not the boiler. the boiler is faulty so it needs to be fixed. you are better off taking out boiler cover with british gas rather than rely on an insured policy. insurers are notorious for not coughing up on a claim so emergencies are best not dependent on them.

i had a similar issue with a boiler recently. british gas had to replace a part in the boiler
Post a comment
Avatar
@
    Text

    Discussions

    Top Merchants