Bosch rant / new dishwasher advice

36
Posted 2nd Nov
I'm sooooo tired of Bosch. When we bought our house in 2015, I bought everything Bosch apart from fridge. So washer/dishwasher/dryer/oven/hob. The hob has been replaced twice due to failure in the induction coils but to be fair it has been freely replaced (but a pain in the backside not having one for several days each time).

Then the dryer broke (was fixed for free), then ran out of warranty, then the door handle snapped off (it's now got one from a cupboard door bolted onto it because it cost me nothing and the replacement required a whole new door.

Today, our dishwasher has stopped heating. My god does anything last any more? I'm wondering how long our Bosch oven and Bosch washing machine have left to live. Unfortunately the dishwasher is no longer under warranty and I'm not sure I will get anywhere by complaining that a dishwasher should last more than 4 years. So I can either fix the heat pump for around £100 when I haven't got a clue what i'm doing although i'm reasonably good with electrics/electronics, pay someone to fix it which will probably cost as much as a new dishwasher or buy a new one.

Problem is we went with Bosch because of people saying how wonderful they are, and good German quality engineering blah blah and because we had two Indesit dishwashers that also broke after 3 years and an indesit dryer that also busted itself in 4 years.

Without spending £1000s on something like miele what dishwasher lasts more than a couple /4 years ??
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I feel similarly about Smeg. Can't comment on Bosch other than to say I have a dishwasher and washing machine of theirs which are around five years old. Hopefully I've not just jinxed myself!
I have Bosch dishwasher, tumble dryer and washing machine. Haven’t had any problems at all, the tumble dryer is 4 years old and flawless. Washing machine is about 9 years old. Dishwasher is about 7 years old. Sounds like you may have been unlucky or maybe you bought the bottom of the range models.

Be aware that some of the smaller Bosch items like drills are now made in China and aren’t very good anymore like black and decker stuff.

If you need parts go to espares.co.uk
Edited by: "cmdr_elito" 2nd Nov
cmdr_elito02/11/2019 12:55

I have Bosch dishwasher, tumble dryer and washing machine. Haven’t had any …I have Bosch dishwasher, tumble dryer and washing machine. Haven’t had any problems at all, the tumble dryer is 4 years old and flawless. Washing machine is about 9 years old. Dishwasher is about 7 years old. Sounds like you may have been unlucky or maybe you bought the bottom of the range models.Be aware that some of the smaller Bosch items like drills are now made in China and aren’t very good anymore like black and decker stuff.


Not sure if it was "bottom of the range" for Bosch the washer is a SMV40C10GB and it was £499 in Currys in 2015 so not the cheapest... The induction hob apparently they all had some design flaw but should now be fixed. But yeah beginning to feel quite unlucky but then again I also think everything is built to break now. Washer still going strong though (touch wood) after 4 years.
sirsmokesalot02/11/2019 12:58

Not sure if it was "bottom of the range" for Bosch the washer is a …Not sure if it was "bottom of the range" for Bosch the washer is a SMV40C10GB and it was £499 in Currys in 2015 so not the cheapest... The induction hob apparently they all had some design flaw but should now be fixed. But yeah beginning to feel quite unlucky but then again I also think everything is built to break now. Washer still going strong though (touch wood) after 4 years.


Well considering my last tumble dryer was an indesit and I used to have to replace the heating element every year as it used to burn out, the Bosch one hasn’t needed a thing. £499 doesn’t sound bottom of the range for dishwasher the cheapest one I think was £349.
cmdr_elito02/11/2019 13:01

Well considering my last tumble dryer was an indesit and I used to have to …Well considering my last tumble dryer was an indesit and I used to have to replace the heating element every year as it used to burn out, the Bosch one hasn’t needed a thing. £499 doesn’t sound bottom of the range for dishwasher the cheapest one I think was £349.


might replace the heating element in the dishwasher, found a compatible one for £60 better than buying a whole new one I guess. Looks like you have to take quite a lot of screws and btis and pieces out to replace it though. thanks
sirsmokesalot02/11/2019 13:05

might replace the heating element in the dishwasher, found a compatible …might replace the heating element in the dishwasher, found a compatible one for £60 better than buying a whole new one I guess. Looks like you have to take quite a lot of screws and btis and pieces out to replace it though. thanks


Well look at it this way, it’s one less part to go wrong once it’s replaced.
Depends which factory you get Bosch from the German ones are good and last, but a few years ago they started production in Spain as well and they are sub standard, my mother found out the hard way when replacing her old Bosch washing machine which lasted 20 years, the new one was from a Spain and didn’t last much past guarantee... if you look into it you can find the different factory products...
[quote]Without spending £1000s on something like miele what dishwasher lasts more than a couple /4 years ??[/quote]


Well I've lasted 21 plus years without requiring to be replaced. Although now showing wear and tear, on my last legs, plus need constant servicing and maintenance.
I feel your pain. As a household of 2 adults and 3 teenagers our white goods on every day at least once. I now buy white goods with a five year parts and labour warranty. Bit more expensive but at least know they will be fixed for free for five years. Was advised against buying Miele by a couple of different shops as apparently their service is not as good as it once was.
Our last Neff Dishwasher lasted 9 years. We replaced it with a Bosch one over. 3 years ago and its still going strong. We replaced an integrate De Dietrich washer dryer with a Miele stand alone one 4 years ago. Can I ask what 'maintainence' you do on things like a washing machine or dishwasher and which postcode district are you in?
Edited by: "pluves1" 2nd Nov
I don't see the point of keeping all appliances the same make.

We only buy white goods that come with a free extended parts and labour warranty.

Blomberg are supposed to make decent dishwashers and come with a 5 year parts and labour warranty.
nemesiz02/11/2019 13:49

[quote]Without spending £1000s on something like miele what dishwasher …[quote]Without spending £1000s on something like miele what dishwasher lasts more than a couple /4 years ??[/quote] Well I've lasted 21 plus years without requiring to be replaced. Although now showing wear and tear, on my last legs, plus need constant servicing and maintenance.


You cost £1,000’s a year in food, heat and water, not to mention space too....
I now go out of my way to avoid Bosch having had terrible experience with fridges, dishwashers and washing machines. I generally got the cheapest models (Classix) thinking they were basic and should last (but they didn't).
I have now resided my self to buying Beko washing machines on the advice of my plumber which although half the price of Bosch have already outlasted the circa 3 years I was getting before the first breakage.
I intend to buy Liebherr white goods going forward as I believe they are made in the same factory as Miele and sometimes go on sale quite cheap.
sirsmokesalot02/11/2019 12:58

Not sure if it was "bottom of the range" for Bosch the washer is a …Not sure if it was "bottom of the range" for Bosch the washer is a SMV40C10GB and it was £499 in Currys in 2015 so not the cheapest... The induction hob apparently they all had some design flaw but should now be fixed. But yeah beginning to feel quite unlucky but then again I also think everything is built to break now. Washer still going strong though (touch wood) after 4 years.


I think the first digit indicates the series number, series 4 is one up from bottom, which I guess makes it mid range. I believe I read some years ago that Bosch started making their lower end models somewhere like Turkey, probably by now they'll be making their high end stuff in the same factory too, but I would think that wherever it is assembled, there's a very good chance that the actual parts used will come from out of the same factory anyway.

4 years is not great for a dishwasher, my current Bosch is 20 years old and to date I've only needed to replace one part very recently, the seal around the rinse aid adjuster, although I just used a 20p 'O' ring. My previous Bosch lasted almost as long, I guess they don't make em like they used to.

Do you use salt? If you live in a hard water area and don't use the softener, then the element is more likely to fur up and fail.

If you decide to repair it yourself, I'd recommend checking the resistance of the element with a multimeter to confirm it has failed before ordering the part, to confirm the error is not caused by something else more trivial, like a dry solder joint on the control board, burnt relay contact, or broken wire.

Bosch seems to have helpful spares website with diagrams, and they sell parts cheaper than some of the third party spares sites:- bosch-home.co.uk/cus…rts Looks like the pump + heater assembly is around £75
Edited by: "melted" 2nd Nov
Unfortunately, this is not by fault but by design: it’s now the accepted business model for firms to manufacture products with a specific shelf life rather than to last. I’m absolutely sick to the back teeth of replacing parts on my Indesit tumble dryer, but I begrudge paying out another £350+ on an item that is only a couple of years old
Any Samsung appliance owners out there, advise if their stuff lasts a decent amount of time?
Edited by: "davewave" 2nd Nov
pluves102/11/2019 14:38

Our last Neff Dishwasher lasted 9 years. We replaced it with a Bosch one …Our last Neff Dishwasher lasted 9 years. We replaced it with a Bosch one over. 3 years ago and its still going strong. We replaced an integrate De Dietrich washer dryer with a Miele stand alone one 4 years ago. Can I ask what 'maintainence' you do on things like a washing machine or dishwasher and which postcode district are you in?


MK40 district, i think we have hard water. Once a month we put through one of those blue liquid dishwasher cleaner things, there is also a water softener before the dishwasher. We also occasionally put those calgon tablets in it and do an empty run. Cleaned it out whenever the brush light came on. etc
melted02/11/2019 15:07

I think the first digit indicates the series number, series 4 is one up …I think the first digit indicates the series number, series 4 is one up from bottom, which I guess makes it mid range. I believe I read some years ago that Bosch started making their lower end models somewhere like Turkey, probably by now they'll be making their high end stuff in the same factory too, but I would think that wherever it is assembled, there's a very good chance that the actual parts used will come from out of the same factory anyway.4 years is not great for a dishwasher, my current Bosch is 20 years old and to date I've only needed to replace one part very recently, the seal around the rinse aid adjuster, although I just used a 20p 'O' ring. My previous Bosch lasted almost as long, I guess they don't make em like they used to.Do you use salt? If you live in a hard water area and don't use the softener, then the element is more likely to fur up and fail.If you decide to repair it yourself, I'd recommend checking the resistance of the element with a multimeter to confirm it has failed before ordering the part, to confirm the error is not caused by something else more trivial, like a dry solder joint on the control board, burnt relay contact, or broken wire. Bosch seems to have helpful spares website with diagrams, and they sell parts cheaper than some of the third party spares sites:- https://www.bosch-home.co.uk/customer-service/care-protection-and-parts/spare-parts Looks like the pump + heater assembly is around £75


yes we use salt. and there's a water softener unit under the sink too that feeds the washer and the dishwasher not sure if it actually does anything but i guess there is two lots of salt going into the dishwasher.

Good advice on checking the heater element resistance, did that on my immersion unit before replacing it .. showed infinity resistence so I replaced it. Will do on the dishwasher too. Thanks.
Edited by: "sirsmokesalot" 2nd Nov
Also nothing against miele btw folks, I just can't lay out £1k on a dishwasher right now.
4 years from a dishwasher isn't that bad these days as white goods are no longer made to last like they were in past. this has reduced the cost of white goods over the year as manufacturers use cheaper parts to keep the cost down. bosch comes in different price brackets so the cheaper ones won't last as long as the more expensive ones.

i would expect 5 years from a bosch dishwasher at the cheap end and i would be happy to buy a new one after 5 years if it broke. i would still recommend bosch for dishwasher as yours may have only lasted 4 years, which is on the low side, but bosch is still a good dishwasher brand that will clean your dishes properly unlike some other brands, like indesit, which we had and the cleaning results were poor even though it lasted many years.

bosch is good for dishwasher but it is not the go to brand for all kitchen products. for the oven and hob and even the fridge freezer, there are better value brands available to bosch. and certainly the dryer.
sirsmokesalot02/11/2019 17:18

MK40 district, i think we have hard water. Once a month we put through one …MK40 district, i think we have hard water. Once a month we put through one of those blue liquid dishwasher cleaner things, there is also a water softener before the dishwasher. We also occasionally put those calgon tablets in it and do an empty run. Cleaned it out whenever the brush light came on. etc


Hi As suspected you are in a hard water area which doesn't bode well for dishwashers and washing machines. For example Miele recommend that you set the automatic dos system for hard water which uses more detergent in hard water areas. They also recommend using their intense clean cleaning powder between 1 and 3 times per year (rather than wait for the warning message to come on) and also the descaler between 1 and 3 times per year (in your case it would be beneficial for 3 times a year). Not many users do this and then wonder why the life of the machine has been reduced particularly in hard water areas. You would also use the descaler on your dishwasher to get rid of built up limescale. I think Bosch has a setting for hard water areas on your dishwasher as well. Finally I think Bosch appliances have a 2 year guarantee as standard but can be extended to 5 for something like £89 (it differs depending on the appliance). I still regard Miele and Bosch as 'high end' appliances but in Bosch's case you have to look towards the more expensive products in their range. They both are still highly regarded in Which surveys.
£200 Beko 6-7 years old now. I got them to replace the top as cracked, they said the heat caused it.
Not me leaning on it whoops.
While he was there I got a new bottom draw as 1 tip had gone rusty and 2 sets of wheels.
As engineer said that can break.
Still have the draw and wheels never needed them.
bigwheels02/11/2019 18:33

£200 Beko 6-7 years old now. I got them to replace the top as cracked, …£200 Beko 6-7 years old now. I got them to replace the top as cracked, they said the heat caused it.Not me leaning on it whoops.While he was there I got a new bottom draw as 1 tip had gone rusty and 2 sets of wheels.As engineer said that can break.Still have the draw and wheels never needed them.


When we rented we had a Beko fridge freezer, was a solid bit of kit. Good to know. I've decided to be a cheapskate and will order the replacement heating assembly for the dishwasher and try to keep it going for a bit longer but I might consider Beko as a replacement in future as I've had it with indesit and bosch now just from personal experience (everyone with 10 year old Bosch's notwithstanding) .

Hooked it up to the hot water pipes for the moment as I can't bare the thought of washing up with a family of 4. Not like I can damage the heating element any further by using the hot water flow and our hot water comes out at 70C anyway
sirsmokesalot02/11/2019 18:35

When we rented we had a Beko fridge freezer, was a solid bit of kit. Good …When we rented we had a Beko fridge freezer, was a solid bit of kit. Good to know. I've decided to be a cheapskate and will order the replacement heating assembly for the dishwasher and try to keep it going for a bit longer but I might consider Beko as a replacement in future as I've had it with indesit and bosch now just from personal experience (everyone with 10 year old Bosch's notwithstanding) . Hooked it up to the hot water pipes for the moment as I can't bare the thought of washing up with a family of 4. Not like I can damage the heating element any further by using the hot water flow and our hot water comes out at 70C anyway


Indesit say it ain’t so.
Was looking to replace my American fridge freezer with separate Indesit tall fridge and a tall freezer.
bigwheels02/11/2019 18:43

Indesit say it ain’t so.Was looking to replace my American fridge freezer …Indesit say it ain’t so.Was looking to replace my American fridge freezer with separate Indesit tall fridge and a tall freezer.


Not sure about fridge/freezers from Indesit, but I certainly wouldn't buy their dryers or dishwashers ever again. What's wrong with your yankee fridge/freezer? We love our samsung, heck it's even not big enough haha.
It has a flap that switches between fridge and freezer to give extra cooling when needed.
It sticks open and freezes milk and beer cans. Once in a while, needed a salad draw one a hinge bearing.
After 3-4 month British Gas could not get the parts, what a joke.
After 20-30 calls and constantly moaning The gave vouchers for a replacement.
They gave £230.01 more than I paid for the unit in the first place.
Now just waiting for Black Friday for a better deal.
mutley102/11/2019 17:37

4 years from a dishwasher isn't that bad these days as white goods are no …4 years from a dishwasher isn't that bad these days as white goods are no longer made to last like they were in past. this has reduced the cost of white goods over the year as manufacturers use cheaper parts to keep the cost down. bosch comes in different price brackets so the cheaper ones won't last as long as the more expensive ones.i would expect 5 years from a bosch dishwasher at the cheap end and i would be happy to buy a new one after 5 years if it broke. i would still recommend bosch for dishwasher as yours may have only lasted 4 years, which is on the low side, but bosch is still a good dishwasher brand that will clean your dishes properly unlike some other brands, like indesit, which we had and the cleaning results were poor even though it lasted many years.bosch is good for dishwasher but it is not the go to brand for all kitchen products. for the oven and hob and even the fridge freezer, there are better value brands available to bosch. and certainly the dryer.


Excellent points, very well made.
sirsmokesalot02/11/2019 13:05

might replace the heating element in the dishwasher, found a compatible …might replace the heating element in the dishwasher, found a compatible one for £60 better than buying a whole new one I guess. Looks like you have to take quite a lot of screws and btis and pieces out to replace it though. thanks


Are you sure it's the element and not thermostat?
Ringfinger02/11/2019 19:21

Are you sure it's the element and not thermostat?


nope. i have no idea what it is at this point.
sirsmokesalot02/11/2019 18:47

Not sure about fridge/freezers from Indesit, but I certainly wouldn't buy …Not sure about fridge/freezers from Indesit, but I certainly wouldn't buy their dryers or dishwashers ever again. What's wrong with your yankee fridge/freezer? We love our samsung, heck it's even not big enough haha.


I've got a Hotpoint, ie made by Indesit, vented tumble dryer, one of the fire risk models.

The build quality is pretty low, the first one I got didn't blow any air and the replacement came with a defective filter. I had it in pieces a few years ago to replace the bearings, drum shaft and drum seals, which consist of a tear drop shaped bush screwed to the back of the case, that the drum shaft runs in and three plastic rubbing blocks at the front. The shaft wears through the bush and is gradually cut through by the steel back of the case and cuts a grove down the back of the case as it is cut through and the drum drops down.

The seals between the drum and case are foam, they replaced the rear foam seal with fire retardant stuff as part of the safety fix.

When I changed the bearing, the case was absolutely packed with fluff that had escaped around the foam drum seals.

The induction motor case is made from thin steel plate and looks a bit like it was designed by someone who made kids tin plate toys in the 1960's.

Remarkably, despite all that, with my repair it has lasted almost as long as my dishwasher. I'd never buy another though.
Edited by: "melted" 2nd Nov
sirsmokesalot02/11/2019 18:35

When we rented we had a Beko fridge freezer, was a solid bit of kit. Good …When we rented we had a Beko fridge freezer, was a solid bit of kit. Good to know. I've decided to be a cheapskate and will order the replacement heating assembly for the dishwasher and try to keep it going for a bit longer but I might consider Beko as a replacement in future as I've had it with indesit and bosch now just from personal experience (everyone with 10 year old Bosch's notwithstanding) . Hooked it up to the hot water pipes for the moment as I can't bare the thought of washing up with a family of 4. Not like I can damage the heating element any further by using the hot water flow and our hot water comes out at 70C anyway


Some Bosch dishwashers can be fed with hot water, which saves electricity, could also potentially extend the element life as it wouldn't be used as much, you should check the maximum temperature though, I think it probably shouldn't exceed 60 celcius.
melted02/11/2019 20:26

Some Bosch dishwashers can be fed with hot water, which saves electricity, …Some Bosch dishwashers can be fed with hot water, which saves electricity, could also potentially extend the element life as it wouldn't be used as much, you should check the maximum temperature though, I think it probably shouldn't exceed 60 celcius.


good point, but one of the settings on the dishwasher itself is 70C. Although the inlet pipe is another matter. Trying it out now, first run from the hot water feed.
Edited by: "sirsmokesalot" 2nd Nov
sirsmokesalot02/11/2019 20:28

good point, but one of the settings on the dishwasher itself is 70C. …good point, but one of the settings on the dishwasher itself is 70C. Although the inlet pipe is another matter. Trying it out now, first run from the hot water feed.


Well, hopefully it will be ok, but check the instructions, some plastic parts like the hose may weaken with the heat. On my previous model you were supposed to fit a hot fill kit, although I suspect that was just a seriously overpriced red coloured hose .

I've only stuck with cold fill on mine because it is so old it has a dumb mechanical controller, so hot fill would cut the wash times and it wouldn't clean as well.
Edited by: "melted" 2nd Nov
New bosch dishwashers have had many issues with the heatpumps. Im a whites good eng and i have to change one maybe twice a week. The old heaters never failed.
adeljay9202/11/2019 20:44

New bosch dishwashers have had many issues with the heatpumps. Im a whites …New bosch dishwashers have had many issues with the heatpumps. Im a whites good eng and i have to change one maybe twice a week. The old heaters never failed.


Thanks for posting that, I'd noticed quite a lot of failed element posts when I googled bosch heat pump dishwashers and was wondering if they might be unreliable.

Do the Bosch zeolith perfect dry dishwashers have a "heatpump" ? I'm guessing they'll have an element to dry the Zeolite so it might share the water heater element. EDIT: googling suggests they do contain a heater pump too

One of the features I miss from my old dishwasher is the air drying, so I'm tempted by those models.
Edited by: "melted" 2nd Nov
bigwheels02/11/2019 18:33

£200 Beko 6-7 years old now. I got them to replace the top as cracked, …£200 Beko 6-7 years old now. I got them to replace the top as cracked, they said the heat caused it.Not me leaning on it whoops.While he was there I got a new bottom draw as 1 tip had gone rusty and 2 sets of wheels.As engineer said that can break.Still have the draw and wheels never needed them.


A beko fridge about that age burnt down my mums house, it was a non recalled model as we had checked it. Beko still haven’t recalled it despite it causing the fire. My mum escaped luckily but it destroyed the downstairs of the house which took nearly 2 years to repair (on insurance).
Edited by: "cmdr_elito" 3rd Nov
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