Boy who was 'seconds away' from launching mass shooting at school sentenced

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Found 8th Sep 2017
Sky News link

I'm unsure if a custodial sentence is the correct course in this case. Of course carrying a loaded shotgun into a school is completely out of order, but the kid phoned the police and followed their instructions to defuse the situation.

Mental health help, yes, custodial sentence, what will that achieve?
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Destard1 h, 47 m ago

Should be named and his picture made available.Like with other teenage …Should be named and his picture made available.Like with other teenage scum bags who are capable enough of commiting serious crime, he shouldn't be treated as a child.




They should post the pictures of all mentally disturbed young people online, that way we can have a big witch hunt and stigmatise them for life
Edited by: "catbeans" 8th Sep 2017
PTibbets6 h, 36 m ago

"Ah, the meeting of two minds. I don't stalk anyone, just expose banned …"Ah, the meeting of two minds. I don't stalk anyone, just expose banned members, deflate overblown egos, and mock the nonsense."Oh My God. That is the best admission from a troll ever! You have 100% admitted that your purpose on this site is to cause trouble. To correct you. You do stalk users on HUKDs that can be proved to anyone who takes a second to view your activity. I have spent 30 mins going through your activity & it proves you stalk at least 5 users, possibly more. I agree with you that do mock users & thank you for your honesty in confirming that it is one of your sole reasons for using the site that gives you enjoyment as you bait on a daily basis. As for the other site? Yes all reports appear to be accurate.


irony
spending 30mins of stalking to prove its someone else thats the stalker
The father need the guns taken off him and his licence taken off him for allowing his son easy access.
Lock him up. He is dangerous.
60 Comments
Lock him up. He is dangerous.
This is my daughter's school......he wanted to kill 'anyone and he took 200 cartridges a lock knife ear defenders and a balaclava.

6 years isn't long enough.......the upset çauses at the achool.and the kids are still scared
FearTheBassPlayer1 m ago

This is my daughter's school......he wanted to kill 'anyone and he took …This is my daughter's school......he wanted to kill 'anyone and he took 200 cartridges a lock knife ear defenders and a balaclava.6 years isn't long enough.......the upset çauses at the achool.and the kids are still scared


He only has to serve 3, the other 3 are on license.
I agree, he should get lot longer.
The school told some parents what was going on and hid it from others at the time......it wasn't dealt with well at all
The father need the guns taken off him and his licence taken off him for allowing his son easy access.
Should be named and his picture made available.
Like with other teenage scum bags who are capable enough of commiting serious crime, he shouldn't be treated as a child.
As a snowflake I think you are all wrong.
OllieSt, I agree with your sentiment. The kid obviously has issues and needs help. What good will chucking him in some sort of custodial unit do for a few years? If anything he will come out a more hardened troubled individual.
FearTheBassPlayer43 m ago

This is my daughter's school......he wanted to kill 'anyone and he took …This is my daughter's school......he wanted to kill 'anyone and he took 200 cartridges a lock knife ear defenders and a balaclava.6 years isn't long enough.......the upset çauses at the achool.and the kids are still scared


But he clearly didn't want to kill anyone, otherwise he would and could have.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 8th Sep 2017
Firearms - Section 51A Firearms Act 1968 (as inserted by section 287 Criminal Justice Act 2003 Section 287 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 inserted a new section 51A into the Firearms Act 1968 that introduced a mandatory minimum sentence for the offence of possession, purchase, acquisition, manufacture, transfer or sale of certain prohibited weapons on or after 22 January 2004.

The section requires that a Crown Court shall impose a minimum sentence of:

  • 5 years' imprisonment if the offender is aged 18 or over when convicted; or,
  • 3 years detention under s. 91 PCC(S)A 2000 (long term detention) if the offender was under 18 but over 16 when the offence was committed.
For offences committed on or after 28 May 2007 the Firearms (Sentencing) (Transitory Provisions) Order 2007 rectified a lacuna identified by providing that where there was a reference to an offender aged 18 or over, it should read an offender aged 21 or over; and inserted a new sub-paragraph providing that where an offender is aged at least 18, but who is under 21 the "appropriate custodial sentence", means a sentence of detention at a young offenders institution under section 96 PCC(S)A 2000.

For further explanation of the different commencement dates and firearms generally please see the chapter Firearms, elsewhere in the Legal Guidance.

The qualifying offences are:

  • Section 5(1)(a) any firearm which is so designed or adapted so that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger e.g. machine guns, burst fire weapons;
  • Section 5(1)(ab) any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for 22 rim-fire e.g. short barrelled rifles or carbines;
  • Section 5(1)(aba) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30cm in length or is less than 60cm in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus e.g. handguns, revolvers;
  • Section 5(1)(ac) any self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which is not an air weapon or chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24" in length or is less than 40" in length overall e.g. self loading or pump action shotguns;
  • Section 5(1)(ad) any smooth-bore revolver gun other than one that is chambered for 9mm rim-fire cartridges or a muzzle-loading gun e.g. Dragon or Striker Gun;
  • Section 5(1)(ae) any rocket launcher, or any mortar, for projecting a stabilised missile, other than a launcher or mortar designed for line-throwing or pyrotechnic purposes or as signalling apparatus;
  • Section 5(1)(af) any air rifle, air gun or air pistol which uses, or is designed or adapted for use with, a self- contained gas cartridge system e.g. Brococks;
  • Section 5 (1)(c) any cartridge with a bullet designed to explode on or immediately before impact, any ammunition containing or designed or adapted to contain any such noxious thing as mentioned above, and, if capable of being used with a firearm of any description, any grenade, bomb (or other like missile), or rocket or shell designed to explode as aforesaid e.g. ammunition containing explosive bullets or CS;
  • Section 5 (1)(A)(a) any firearm which is disguised as another object, e.g. pengun, key fob gun,
Section 29 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 extends the mandatory minimum sentence (of not less than 5 years) to the offence of using another person to mind a dangerous weapon, where the weapon is a prohibited weapon.

Section 30 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 extends the mandatory minimum sentence under section 51A ( 5 years for over 18 and 3 years for under 18 but over 16) to the following offences committed on or after 6 April 2007, where the firearm used is a prohibited weapon listed above:

  • Section 16 Firearms Act 1968 (possession of firearm with intent to injure);
  • Section 16A Firearms Act 1968 (possession of firearm with intent to cause fear of violence);
  • Section 17 Firearms Act 1968 (use of firearm to resist arrest);
  • Section 18 Firearms Act 1968 (carrying firearm with criminal intent);
  • Section 19 18 Firearms Act 1968 (carrying a firearm in a public place);
  • Section 20 (1) 18 Firearms Act 1968 (trespassing in a building with a firearm);
  • Section 28 Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006 (using another person to mind a dangerous weapon).
Note: The minimum sentence provisions for firearms offences apply on first conviction, unlike the provisions of s110 and 111 PCC(S)A, which apply only to repeat offenders.
He'll probably get easier access to mental health experts as part of his rehabilitation whilst inside.
OllieSt18 m ago

But he clearly didn't want to kill anyone, otherwise he would and could …But he clearly didn't want to kill anyone, otherwise he would and could have.


Try saying the same if your child was in danger at the time. 200 bullets. Lock knife.......balaclava.........it was all planned not a spur of the moment thing.

I hope that you never have a child faces with the situation of being in gun danger in a place that should be safe!!
OllieSt19 m ago

But he clearly didn't want to kill anyone, otherwise he would and could …But he clearly didn't want to kill anyone, otherwise he would and could have.


He told the call handler that he wanted to kill anyone..........read the story!!!!
Prosecutor Nigel Stelling said the teenager - who was joined in court by his parents - attended his first class on June 13 before telling the teacher he had to leave for a music lesson.

The next action of note was a 999 call made by the boy himself just after he had put in ear protectors.

“He spoke to the call handler and told them he had the weapons and ammunition,” said Mr Stelling.

“He was recorded as saying ‘I don’t know why I’ve got it - I just felt so angry this morning. I just had to get it out’,”

When asked by the 999 handler if he was going to use the gun on himself or someone else, he stated “someone else” and went on to say “anybody”.

Mr Stelling stated that the youngster said he “felt angry all the time and very sad”, and had done so for about a year.

Upon instruction from the call handler, the teen took the gun apart and placed it outside the room he was in.

At that point the deputy headteacher entered the room and stayed with him until police arrived, stating that he “did not feel in danger”.



Speaking for the boy, who his deputy headteacher described as a “model pupil”, Delroy Henry urged the judge not to pass a prison sentence.

He said: “He’s a boy. He’s a child.

“Offending by a child is often a phase that passes rapidly.

“A prison sentence would have a detrimental effect on his mental health.”

Mr Henry said it was “significant that the weapon was not brandished to instil fear” in anyone.

He added: “This was a relatively self-contained incident and police were called by him.

“It started because of him and ended because of him. It started because of a loss of good sense - it ended because he saw the good sense.”
PTibbets57 m ago

Well, for 3 years at least, it will stop him getting hold of a gun if he …Well, for 3 years at least, it will stop him getting hold of a gun if he is having a bad day.


After that he can do whatever he likes..... Daft argument. The child obviously needs help to deal with his issues.
Edited by: "RedLozzer" 8th Sep 2017
FearTheBassPlayer1 h, 42 m ago

This is my daughter's school......he wanted to kill 'anyone and he took …This is my daughter's school......he wanted to kill 'anyone and he took 200 cartridges a lock knife ear defenders and a balaclava.6 years isn't long enough.......the upset çauses at the achool.and the kids are still scared

How would you have reacted to the story if you had no personal involvement? I know that's a hard thing to imagine but. .......
PTibbets10 m ago

No. What is daft is you believe his behaviour doesnt warrant an immediate …No. What is daft is you believe his behaviour doesnt warrant an immediate & lengthy custodial sentence. He will get more help inside than outside. He will not be going to big boys prison (yet anyway).


You obviously don't work in the correctional services.
RedLozzer13 m ago

You obviously don't work in the correctional services.


Please do share your knowledge and experience with us.
Destard1 h, 47 m ago

Should be named and his picture made available.Like with other teenage …Should be named and his picture made available.Like with other teenage scum bags who are capable enough of commiting serious crime, he shouldn't be treated as a child.




They should post the pictures of all mentally disturbed young people online, that way we can have a big witch hunt and stigmatise them for life
Edited by: "catbeans" 8th Sep 2017
Destard12 m ago

Please do share your knowledge and experience with us.


Why? You have a closed mind.
Edited by: "RedLozzer" 8th Sep 2017
Darzet_zider8th Sep 2017

The father need the guns taken off him and his licence taken off him for …The father need the guns taken off him and his licence taken off him for allowing his son easy access.


I don't necessarily agree, the judge stated when sentencing that the crime was planned in advance as the boy took time to search for the keys to the gun cabinet, any legal gun holder could face the same problem as you dont necessary know a family member has a mental illness until its too late, who knows how long the boy had secretly been planning this, he may have been watching and listening for months to find the storage location of the cabinet and keys.
I live yards away from the school which is on the outskirts of the town and surrounded by farm land, the father may need the gun as part of his job role, he may well be a farmer, the family details haven't been realised.
I believe that if a property is suspected of having a firearm stored on it then it is at risk of being targeted, be it by family, friend or burglar.
You can only do so much to secure a weapon but if someone wants access badly enough they will find a means to get it, it would be even easier if you already had free access to the property as the boy did.
Even if guns where banned completely in this country there would still be gun crime just as there is drug crime.
I'm sure the father feels responsible enough without being blamed and punished himself.
This needs to be and I'm sure will be, a separate investigation into the security of the said gun before blame is placed on the father.
Edited by: "barriey" 8th Sep 2017
RedLozzer41 m ago

You obviously don't work in the correctional services.



Fairly sure he doesn't 'work' in correctional services, but I think he may have some insight from another perspective. #YDWTK
I actually think the sentence is harsh, he didn't go through with it, obviously he'd need to be assessed for life to see if he he needs sectioning etc though

It could send a the message to someone in future who is mentally unbalanced and snaps but then has doubts, they could think they may as well go through with it as they'll be punished either way
Jail everybody else and he can walk round with a gun all day!
RedLozzer34 m ago

Why? You have a closed mind.


I'd suggest most people on this miscellaneous forum are closed minded.
Are you?
PTibbets2 m ago

What exactly is your problem? I have reported your post. It seems they …What exactly is your problem? I have reported your post. It seems they were right about you on the other site. . May I suggest you give up alcohol.


Elaborate? The guy stalks me on these forums for some sinister reason.
Would be interested to hear what you've read.
Edited by: "Uranus" 8th Sep 2017
PTibbets3 m ago

What exactly is your problem? I have reported your post. It seems they …What exactly is your problem? I have reported your post. It seems they were right about you on the other site. . May I suggest you give up alcohol.


I rarely drink, but I am intrigued by what your problem is with my comment? Your contributions on other sites are your own business.
Destard3 m ago

Elaborate? The guy stalks me on these forums for some sinister …Elaborate? The guy stalks me on these forums for some sinister reason.Would be interested to hear what you've read.


Ah, the meeting of two minds. I don't stalk anyone, just expose banned members, deflate overblown egos, and mock the nonsense.
catbeans58 m ago

They should post the pictures of all mentally disturbed young people …They should post the pictures of all mentally disturbed young people online, that way we can have a big witch hunt and stigmatise them for life

That's what big brother's for?? (As in the TV show)
Destard26 m ago

I'd suggest most people on this miscellaneous forum are closed minded.Are …I'd suggest most people on this miscellaneous forum are closed minded.Are you?

I'm a snowflake :-)
Darzet_zider8th Sep 2017

The father need the guns taken off him and his licence taken off him for …The father need the guns taken off him and his licence taken off him for allowing his son easy access.


If someone stole your car (just as much a weapon as a gun in the wrong hands) and threatened to kill people with it, would you expect your cars and licence to be taken from you for allowing easy access?
unreality1 h, 30 m ago

I actually think the sentence is harsh, he didn't go through with it, …I actually think the sentence is harsh, he didn't go through with it, obviously he'd need to be assessed for life to see if he he needs sectioning etc thoughIt could send a the message to someone in future who is mentally unbalanced and snaps but then has doubts, they could think they may as well go through with it as they'll be punished either way


Exactly. I wish people would try and think about things more holistically.
Incarceration isn't just to punish people, it's meant to rehabilitate people back into society and send a message to the public.

If someone is seriously mentally ill they are not responsible for their actions, they need treatment and help.
This kid called 999 too which shows there is still goodness in him despite being mentally ill.

But most importantly, as unreality says, give this kid what, 10 years? 15? What does the next shooter who has second thoughts think?
I'm not doing that time, I'll shoot a load of people and then myself.

Vengeance is a base and self-serving emotion.
unreality7 h, 14 m ago

I actually think the sentence is harsh, he didn't go through with it, …I actually think the sentence is harsh, he didn't go through with it, obviously he'd need to be assessed for life to see if he he needs sectioning etc thoughIt could send a the message to someone in future who is mentally unbalanced and snaps but then has doubts, they could think they may as well go through with it as they'll be punished either way


How can the sentence be harsh when he received the mandatory minimum sentence for the offence of possession, purchase, acquisition, manufacture, transfer or sale of certain prohibited weapons?
chocci1 h, 11 m ago

How can the sentence be harsh when he received the mandatory minimum …How can the sentence be harsh when he received the mandatory minimum sentence for the offence of possession, purchase, acquisition, manufacture, transfer or sale of certain prohibited weapons?


The section requires that a Crown Court shall impose a minimum sentence of:

  • 5 years' imprisonment if the offender is aged 18 or over when convicted; or,
  • 3 years detention under s. 91 PCC(S)A 2000 (long term detention) if the offender was under 18 but over 16 when the offence was committed.


He doesn't meet any of the above criteria
Edited by: "OllieSt" 9th Sep 2017
PTibbets4 h, 46 m ago

"Ah, the meeting of two minds. I don't stalk anyone, just expose banned …"Ah, the meeting of two minds. I don't stalk anyone, just expose banned members, deflate overblown egos, and mock the nonsense."Oh My God. That is the best admission from a troll ever! You have 100% admitted that your purpose on this site is to cause trouble. To correct you. You do stalk users on HUKDs that can be proved to anyone who takes a second to view your activity. I have spent 30 mins going through your activity & it proves you stalk at least 5 users, possibly more. I agree with you that do mock users & thank you for your honesty in confirming that it is one of your sole reasons for using the site that gives you enjoyment as you bait on a daily basis. As for the other site? Yes all reports appear to be accurate.


Still up at 3am posting nonsense, YouDontWantToKnow. Nothing much changes. Good luck with your latest account - try and make this one last.
PTibbets2 h, 7 m ago

He meets the criteria well. You are looking at one charge. He committed …He meets the criteria well. You are looking at one charge. He committed about 4. Buy the way. Its over 14 years old for adult time for firearms. Theft, unlawful possession, threats & trespass with.



Are you guessing, or can you provide your source. So are you saying a 14-15 year old is treated more harshly than an over 16, but under 18 year old


He was arrested and charged with possession of the shotgun and the ammunition with intent to endanger life, as well as possession of a bladed article, which he pleaded guilty to.


Firearms - Section 51A Firearms Act 1968 (as inserted by section 287 Criminal Justice Act 2003 Section 287 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 inserted a new section 51A into the Firearms Act 1968 that introduced a mandatory minimum sentence for the offence of possession, purchase, acquisition, manufacture, transfer or sale of certain prohibited weapons on or after 22 January 2004.

The section requires that a Crown Court shall impose a minimum sentence of:

  • 5 years' imprisonment if the offender is aged 18 or over when convicted; or,
  • 3 years detention under s. 91 PCC(S)A 2000 (long term detention) if the offender was under 18 but over 16 when the offence was committed.
For offences committed on or after 28 May 2007 the Firearms (Sentencing) (Transitory Provisions) Order 2007 rectified a lacuna identified by providing that where there was a reference to an offender aged 18 or over, it should read an offender aged 21 or over; and inserted a new sub-paragraph providing that where an offender is aged at least 18, but who is under 21 the "appropriate custodial sentence", means a sentence of detention at a young offenders institution under section 96 PCC(S)A 2000.




Edited by: "OllieSt" 9th Sep 2017
PTibbets7 m ago

Probably what I stated. If not more.


So you could probably be wrong
Edited by: "OllieSt" 9th Sep 2017
PTibbets6 h, 36 m ago

"Ah, the meeting of two minds. I don't stalk anyone, just expose banned …"Ah, the meeting of two minds. I don't stalk anyone, just expose banned members, deflate overblown egos, and mock the nonsense."Oh My God. That is the best admission from a troll ever! You have 100% admitted that your purpose on this site is to cause trouble. To correct you. You do stalk users on HUKDs that can be proved to anyone who takes a second to view your activity. I have spent 30 mins going through your activity & it proves you stalk at least 5 users, possibly more. I agree with you that do mock users & thank you for your honesty in confirming that it is one of your sole reasons for using the site that gives you enjoyment as you bait on a daily basis. As for the other site? Yes all reports appear to be accurate.


irony
spending 30mins of stalking to prove its someone else thats the stalker
The kid clearly needs hospitalising for mental health, that's not the actions of a rational and mentally capable person.

Mental health is a tricky one and I hope that he gets help for his deeply troubling problems.

He certainly needs to be locked up somewhere away from society and innocent people whilst he gets the help he needs.

I do have to give him some credit for stopping himself from doing it and phoning 999 to ask for help. Yes he shouldn't have done what he did but to have gone through all of that planning and then have a moment of clarity to realise it was wrong and have the strength to ask for help is something we can all be thankful for.

That strength to fight those demons troubling him and ask for help, not tojust keeping going with the heinous plan, is the only thing that stopped him from murdering innocent children.
PTibbets12 m ago

No. I am not wrong.You pick out one offense when he committed a dozen. He …No. I am not wrong.You pick out one offense when he committed a dozen. He pleaded guilty for 3 offences.



I can only find him being charged with 2, perhaps you can enlighten me.
Edited by: "OllieSt" 9th Sep 2017
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