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    BREXIT debate today - comments

    Is it just me or has the house of commons (mainly labour, snp) forgot that nearly 18 million people voted out of the European union.

    I am sick and tired of watching labour mps act like they know what the whole country wants as if they represent the normal working class man and woman. They are the real toffee noses now. One of their prominent mps allegedly has links to the law firms attempting to sue our soldiers for alleged actions in Iraq.

    I have not always been a fan of torys and I do disagree with some of their actions mainly from the Cameron era. But now the torys and ukip are the only party's listening to the people with respect to taking back control and delivering brexit.

    Brexit means brexit and I've had enough of silly delays and tactics from labour to try and divert the peoples wishes. Who is with me?

    327 Comments

    gtfo

    Original Poster

    shem2409

    gtfo



    Oh no, a remoaner?

    How will Brexit positively impact your life?

    I'm with you Youngy

    Original Poster

    HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

    How will Brexit positively impact your life?



    Hmm...let me think perhaps my children may be able to get a nursery place, I may be able to get a gp appointment and the young may be able to get on the housing ladder.

    Perhaps you should look outside your bubble rather than judging people for voting brexit. Uncontrolled immigration and loss of sovereignty has real consequences.

    Not just labour and snp, but there are a lot of Tory MPs who do not want Brexit.

    Original Poster

    tempt

    Not just labour and snp, but there are a lot of Tory MPs who do not want … Not just labour and snp, but there are a lot of Tory MPs who do not want Brexit.



    Just goes to show how out of touch they are with their constituents

    youngy7

    Hmm...let me think perhaps my children may be able to get a nursery … Hmm...let me think perhaps my children may be able to get a nursery place, I may be able to get a gp appointment and the young may be able to get on the housing ladder.Perhaps you should look outside your bubble rather than judging people for voting brexit. Uncontrolled immigration and loss of sovereignty has real consequences.



    I haven't judged you, simply asked how you'll benefit.

    Nursery places and GP numbers could increase but if the economy contracts then there's going to be less money for public spending.

    Housing will depend on the area though. The truth is that some young people can get on the housing ladder, but with the falling pound what we're seeing at this very moment is foreign investors increasing their portfolios in desirable areas.

    The population simply isn't going to fall overnight.

    Ah, someone arguing against a supposed "loss of sovereignity" while criticising the Labour MPs for doing their jobs as an elected Member of the sovereign Parliament. I'm not sure logic is a strong point here.

    Hmm...let me think perhaps my children may be able to get a nursery … Hmm...let me think perhaps my children may be able to get a nursery place, I may be able to get a gp appointment and the young may be able to get on the housing ladder.



    Uh huh.
    Without judging, what was the thought process that lead you to believe those were likely outcomes of Brexit?

    youngy7

    Hmm...let me think perhaps my children may be able to get a nursery … Hmm...let me think perhaps my children may be able to get a nursery place, I may be able to get a gp appointment and the young may be able to get on the housing ladder.Perhaps you should look outside your bubble rather than judging people for voting brexit. Uncontrolled immigration and loss of sovereignty has real consequences.



    And when the NHS we all rely on slumps further down thanks to an ageing population and your much cherished cap on immigration and therefore a lack of skilled workers - what then? Which group will you point your finger at for the state this country is in? Ignorance and small-mindedness have worse consequences...
    Edited by: "vanchapman" 12th Oct 2016

    Original Poster

    HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

    I haven't judged you, simply asked how you'll benefit.Nursery places and … I haven't judged you, simply asked how you'll benefit.Nursery places and GP numbers could increase but if the economy contracts then there's going to be less money for public spending. Housing will depend on the area though. The truth is that some young people can get on the housing ladder, but with the falling pound what we're seeing at this very moment is foreign investors increasing their portfolios in desirable areas. The population simply isn't going to fall overnight.



    How can we ever sustain uncontrolled mass immigration on this scale? We made a common sense decision.

    The economy should benefit in the long term as we will have our own trade deals with Australia USA etc. Rather than being stifled to a failing EU with less growth than Antarctica.

    Young people can not get on the housing ladder apart from if they are fortunate to have parents who help or have saved for years prior which is very difficult.

    The falling pound? The pound is going down due to emotional reactions. Nothing has actually changed yet. If labour had their way it wouldn't and we would carry on with an open door to 550 million people having unfettered access to our NHS.

    I hope you see where I'm coming from?!

    I hope I'm wrong here but I have a gut feeling that that the remainer MP's will eventually scupper Brexit and complexly ignore the will of the people. I'm particularly sickened at the Labour MP's trying their best to stop Brexit, don't they realise that the vote for Brexit was particularly strong in Labour held areas. It just shows you how far removed they are from their electorate.

    Original Poster

    vanchapman

    And when the NHS we all rely on slumps further down thanks to an ageing … And when the NHS we all rely on slumps further down thanks to an ageing population and your much cherished cap on immigration and therefore a lack of skilled workers - what then? Which group will you point your finger at for the state this country is in? Ignorance and small-mindedness have worse consequences...



    Skilled workers? I don't recall the UK having a skill shortage of fruit pickers. This used to be done by children but now we fly in a crazy amount of foreign labour to do it and pay them child benefit and tax credits on top.

    As for people like you acting like the only people that work in the NHS are foreign. Why don't we remember that we should be training our own people like we used to. This will come back in once brexit prevails and common sense is restored.

    You seem like someone who sneers at people from a mansion for having concerns of mass uncontrolled immigration.

    You still won't get a nursery place, you still wont get a GP appointment and you still won't get a place in school. The problem is not immigration.

    youngy7

    How can we ever sustain uncontrolled mass immigration on this scale? We … How can we ever sustain uncontrolled mass immigration on this scale? We made a common sense decision.The economy should benefit in the long term as we will have our own trade deals with Australia USA etc. Rather than being stifled to a failing EU with less growth than Antarctica. Young people can not get on the housing ladder apart from if they are fortunate to have parents who help or have saved for years prior which is very difficult.The falling pound? The pound is going down due to emotional reactions. Nothing has actually changed yet. If labour had their way it wouldn't and we would carry on with an open door to 550 million people having unfettered access to our NHS.I hope you see where I'm coming from?!



    I absolutely see where you're coming from, but I think you've been sold a lie unfortunately. It's hard to be a cheerleader for immigration but you have to take a balanced view of the benefits we get from being within the EU.

    These are all old arguments though. Trade deals don't magically happen overnight and we need to have over 100 bilateral negotiations running concurrently simply to keep pace with what the EU has in place or is currently negotiating - that's decades of work.

    The falling pound isn't emotional either. It's a combination of reacting to the challenges the economy faces and people trying to take advantage of that.

    It's natural to want the best for your kids but chances are you've voted for them to have poorer public services, fewer opportunities in a struggling economy and maybe even a harder task getting on the housing ladder. Maybe your grandkids though.

    Original Poster

    Niz

    You still won't get a nursery place, you still wont get a GP appointment … You still won't get a nursery place, you still wont get a GP appointment and you still won't get a place in school. The problem is not immigration.



    Simple supply and demand my friend. It's like organising a wedding and letting the whole of the UK come but only cater for 500 people. Madness.

    If you had a valid argument, you wouldn't have the need to make such stupid exaggerations.

    Their genuinely isn't an electable party atm, We're in a situation where May is probably indeed the best person for the job. I think their could be some massive shake ups because baring UKIP you've got Labour who have and still are anti-brexit and Conservatives who are virtually split down the middle, I'm not sure that can work in Britain's favour?. Maybe time for the creation of a new party.!.

    Labour won't get in power with Corbyn that's for sure.!.

    Original Poster

    HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

    I absolutely see where you're coming from, but I think you've been sold a … I absolutely see where you're coming from, but I think you've been sold a lie unfortunately. It's hard to be a cheerleader for immigration but you have to take a balanced view of the benefits we get from being within the EU.These are all old arguments though. Trade deals don't magically happen overnight and we need to have over 100 bilateral negotiations running concurrently simply to keep pace with what the EU has in place or is currently negotiating - that's decades of work. The falling pound isn't emotional either. It's a combination of reacting to the challenges the economy faces and people trying to take advantage of that.It's natural to want the best for your kids but chances are you've voted for them to have poorer public services, fewer opportunities in a struggling economy and maybe even a harder task getting on the housing ladder. Maybe your grandkids though.



    If the EU want to cut off their nose to spite their face they will lose out more than us we are their main customer. Especially Germany, the amount of cars we buy. Can you imagine the large scale redundancies if they want to impose trade barriers. Not a chance. It's all economics and money talks.

    Your argument is essentially put up with uncontrolled mass immigration even though eventually our NHS will have to go private, my children won't have a nursery but hey don't worry let's keep in the failed EU because we are too frightened to have a better way of life.

    Mark my words: the Netherlands and France will follow shortly in our footsteps of leaving the EU look at the polls.

    freakstyler

    I hope I'm wrong here but I have a gut feeling that that the remainer … I hope I'm wrong here but I have a gut feeling that that the remainer MP's will eventually scupper Brexit and complexly ignore the will of the people. I'm particularly sickened at the Labour MP's trying their best to stop Brexit, don't they realise that the vote for Brexit was particularly strong in Labour held areas. It just shows you how far removed they are from their electorate.


    UK referendums aren't binding so why should MPs follow what the people voted for?
    I'd rather MPs did what they think is the right thing regardless of what I think about an issue.
    I think the referendum was ill advised and I'm sure a lot of MPs feel the same way and should be allowed to express that.
    If referendums were binding then I'd have much less sympathy for those trying to scupper Brexit but they aren't.

    youngy7

    Skilled workers? I don't recall the UK having a skill shortage of fruit … Skilled workers? I don't recall the UK having a skill shortage of fruit pickers. This used to be done by children but now we fly in a crazy amount of foreign labour to do it and pay them child benefit and tax credits on top. As for people like you acting like the only people that work in the NHS are foreign. Why don't we remember that we should be training our own people like we used to. This will come back in once brexit prevails and common sense is restored.You seem like someone who sneers at people from a mansion for having concerns of mass uncontrolled immigration.



    Yeah maybe back in 1900s when child labour was acceptable, which may account for your views as well.

    It takes a long time train people particularly in something like medicine so what do you do in the mean time?

    You're right I do sneer at simpletons like you who lump all of this country's problems on foreigners. I'm yet to her one credible plan about how you guys are going to make Britain great again when most native industry has been privatised and outsourced! You really think this country is going to rise out of the ashes when the £ is nosediving and our costs of living is likely going to increase? Get real.

    Niz

    You still won't get a nursery place, you still wont get a GP appointment … You still won't get a nursery place, you still wont get a GP appointment and you still won't get a place in school. The problem is not immigration.



    ​Okay, thanks for clearing that up for us, at least we know now!

    Original Poster

    shauneco

    Their genuinely isn't an electable party atm, We're in a situation where … Their genuinely isn't an electable party atm, We're in a situation where May is probably indeed the best person for the job. I think their could be some massive shake ups because baring UKIP you've got Labour who have and still are anti-brexit and Conservatives who are virtually split down the middle, I'm not sure that can work in Britain's favour?. Maybe time for the creation of a new party.!. Labour won't get in power with Corbyn that's for sure.!.



    May should call an election now. A guaranteed bolstered majority I would assume around 100 mp majority rather than 16 at the moment. Wipe labour out for good hopefully.

    Original Poster

    vanchapman

    Yeah maybe back in 1900s when child labour was acceptable, which may … Yeah maybe back in 1900s when child labour was acceptable, which may account for your views as well. It takes a long time train people particularly in something like medicine so what do you do in the mean time? You're right I do sneer at simpletons like you who lump all of this country's problems on foreigners. I'm yet to her one credible plan about how you guys are going to make Britain great again when most native industry has been privatised and outsourced! You really think this country is going to rise out of the ashes when the £ is nosediving and our costs of living is likely going to increase? Get real.



    YAWN...when you get out of your mansion and speak to a normal human who has been affected please talk to me until then carry on with your pompous over privileged views. Better still emigrate to your beloved EU.

    WrongEnglishAndWelshDeals

    These are all old arguments though. Trade deals don't magically happen … These are all old arguments though. Trade deals don't magically happen overnight and we need to have over 100 bilateral negotiations running concurrently simply to keep pace with what the EU has in place or is currently negotiating - that's decades of work.



    (a) How many of those trade deals are key to UK trade? I wager single digits. If any.
    (b) Since we already have these trade deals in place (by virtue of our current membership of the EU), I personally can see no reason why we could not decide to agree new corresponding trade deals on exactly the same terms with countries as we wish when we leave the EU.

    "That's decades of work." No, that's a complete BS red herring.

    Agharta

    UK referendums aren't binding so why should MPs follow what the people … UK referendums aren't binding so why should MPs follow what the people voted for?I'd rather MPs did what they think is the right thing regardless of what I think about an issue.I think the referendum was ill advised and I'm sure a lot of MPs feel the same way and should be allowed to express that.If referendums were binding then I'd have much less sympathy for those trying to scupper Brexit but they aren't.



    People like you and HEAWD are so anti democratic, perhaps you should have your right to vote removed?.

    The dictatorship of Europe has been defeated, Just like our grandparents defeated that evil dictator in WW2.!. The EU will collapse once we stop throwing money at it.

    youngy7

    If the EU want to cut off their nose to spite their face they will lose … If the EU want to cut off their nose to spite their face they will lose out more than us we are their main customer. Especially Germany, the amount of cars we buy. Can you imagine the large scale redundancies if they want to impose trade barriers. Not a chance. It's all economics and money talks.Your argument is essentially put up with uncontrolled mass immigration even though eventually our NHS will have to go private, my children won't have a nursery but hey don't worry let's keep in the failed EU because we are too frightened to have a better way of life.Mark my words: the Netherlands and France will follow shortly in our footsteps of leaving the EU look at the polls.



    The car argument makes little sense and I'll explain why. People already pay a premium for BMWs and Audis and this market is unlikely to stop buying them even if tariffs are introduced. The same goes for Spanish and French wines. The economics of this type of trade war simply don't favour us purely on the basis of numbers.

    As for our NHS, with an ageing population it likely will be reduced in size over my lifetime, and a shrinking economy only exacerbates that.

    Again, I understand your fears but if you think that Brexit solves any problems without creating whole new ones then I think you're wrong. Brexit was essentially sold as you being able to have your cake and eat it too, that we could have all the benefits of EU membership without any of the costs and anyone who was raised to eat their veg before being allowed dessert knows that rarely happens.

    Fingers crossed though.

    Agharta

    UK referendums aren't binding so why should MPs follow what the people … UK referendums aren't binding so why should MPs follow what the people voted for?I'd rather MPs did what they think is the right thing regardless of what I think about an issue.I think the referendum was ill advised and I'm sure a lot of MPs feel the same way and should be allowed to express that.If referendums were binding then I'd have much less sympathy for those trying to scupper Brexit but they aren't.



    Because the UK is a DEMOCRACY.

    Original Poster

    3guesses

    (a) How many of those trade deals are key to UK trade? I wager single … (a) How many of those trade deals are key to UK trade? I wager single digits. If any.(b) Since we already have these trade deals in place (by virtue of our current membership of the EU), I personally can see no reason why we could not decide to agree new corresponding trade deals on exactly the same terms with countries as we wish when we leave the EU."That's decades of work." No, that's a complete BS red herring.



    Wrongenglishandwelshdeals has swallowed a considerable amount of Jean CLOWN juncker EU propaganda I believe.

    vanchapman

    Yeah maybe back in 1900s when child labour was acceptable, which may … Yeah maybe back in 1900s when child labour was acceptable, which may account for your views as well. It takes a long time train people particularly in something like medicine so what do you do in the mean time? You're right I do sneer at simpletons like you who lump all of this country's problems on foreigners. I'm yet to her one credible plan about how you guys are going to make Britain great again when most native industry has been privatised and outsourced! You really think this country is going to rise out of the ashes when the £ is nosediving and our costs of living is likely going to increase? Get real.



    So you don't see the lower pound as beneficial to the UK's economy?

    Original Poster

    shauneco

    People like you and HEAWD are so anti democratic, perhaps you should have … People like you and HEAWD are so anti democratic, perhaps you should have your right to vote removed?.The dictatorship of Europe has been defeated, Just like our grandparents defeated that evil dictator in WW2.!. The EU will collapse once we stop throwing money at it.



    The EU is crying since we won't be funding their vanity projects any longer. The EU is a continuation of German rule by looser means.

    youngy7

    Wrongenglishandwelshdeals has swallowed a considerable amount of Jean … Wrongenglishandwelshdeals has swallowed a considerable amount of Jean CLOWN juncker EU propaganda I believe.



    I have no great love for the EU, but our economy is based on being in it. Let's not forget that our economy has actually done fairly well as a member of the European Union. I'm sure I'll be told I'm speaking from a mansion but our economy affords individuals the right of self-improvement regardless of their background.

    If you're prepared to work hard and smart there is no limit in this country to what you can achieve. It's not perfect but no country is.

    What the EU became was a boogeyman to blame anything on.

    WrongEnglishAndWelshDeals

    The car argument makes little sense and I'll explain why. People already … The car argument makes little sense and I'll explain why. People already pay a premium for BMWs and Audis and this market is unlikely to stop buying them even if tariffs are introduced. The same goes for Spanish and French wines. The economics of this type of trade war simply don't favour us purely on the basis of numbers.



    Except you are also predicting an impact to the UK economy, which will mean a drop in disposable incomes. So your argument there is based on a false premise (unchanged disposable incomes).

    There are no winners in a trade war. The UK doesn't want one, but a lot of deluded EU bureaucrats seem to think it's a solution to the innate problems of the EU.

    shauneco

    People like you and HEAWD are so anti democratic..


    A UK referendum is merely a poll and is not binding in any way.
    It's like a boss asking workers for suggestions to take under advisement.
    Obviously they ignore the foolish ideas and some MPs think Brexit is foolish and feel it's their duty to express that which is all part of the democratic process; debating.

    shauneco

    People like you and HEAWD are so anti democratic, perhaps you should have … People like you and HEAWD are so anti democratic, perhaps you should have your right to vote removed?


    That irony is staggering. So if I just acknowledge that the referendum is not binding at all, which is a fact, then I should lose the right to vote. How democratic of you.



    HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

    I have no great love for the EU, but our economy is based on being in it. … I have no great love for the EU, but our economy is based on being in it. Let's not forget that our economy has actually done fairly well as a member of the European Union. I'm sure I'll be told I'm speaking from a mansion but our economy affords individuals the right of self-improvement regardless of their background.If you're prepared to work hard and smart there is no limit in this country to what you can achieve. It's not perfect but no country is. What the EU became was a boogeyman to blame anything on.



    Make your mind up! What is your solution then? Have a revote? Rejoin later? What is wrong with Britain wanting to be a part of an economic union? and not a political one?

    shauneco

    People like you and HEAWD are so anti democratic..

    shauneco

    People like you and HEAWD are so anti democratic, perhaps you should … People like you and HEAWD are so anti democratic, perhaps you should have your right to vote removed?



    You suggested they go against what the British people wanted, That is undemocratic, Sure it wasn't legally binding, nobody suggested it was.

    Original Poster

    shauneco

    People like you and HEAWD are so anti democratic..

    shauneco

    People like you and HEAWD are so anti democratic, perhaps you should … People like you and HEAWD are so anti democratic, perhaps you should have your right to vote removed?



    Ergh you really are repugnant. You sound like the first person who would have slithered around gloating if the elites and bankers had won and got a remain vote. The brexiteers won so take it like a man.

    WrongEnglishAndWelshDeals

    I have no great love for the EU, but our economy is based on being in it.



    Yes, it is CURRENTLY based on being in the EU. Once we have left, it will be based on us NOT being in the EU. The UK economy is very dynamic, and it will adapt to the new set-up. Maybe not overnight, but in very short course.

    I know that change is frightening to a lot of people - you in particular, it would seem - but change produces opportunities, and leaving the EU will produce LOTS of opportunities. These opportunities need to be embraced, and that is precisely what will happen. This fatalistic "WE'RE ALL DOOMED" approach is neither helpful nor healthy.

    God it's tiring having the same conversation over, and over, and over, and over ...

    As a fair number of brexiters seem to be contributing to this thread, can any of you tell me what has happened to the pledge to put a further £350m a week into the NHS? When is this going to start?
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