Broken toilet in rented house, who pays?

46
Found 5th Mar 2016
So basically I was in the shower and I heard what sounded like metal clanging or a 'bang'. Peeped out from the shower curtain and nothing out of the ordinary so I thought maybe it was the bathroom bin lid closing suddenly. Four hours later I look in the bathroom and it's nearly flooded! Soaked it all up to try and find the source low and behold it's coming from the toilet. I still couldn't work out exactly where until I lifted the cistern lid to see a crack all down the side. then I remembered that whilst cleaning I always felt something plaster like on that side, I just thought it was excess plaster that had accidentally been splashed there from tiling work. It obviously wasn't, someone had tried to repair a crack which at that time was small but over time it got bigger until 'bang'. Spoken to my landlords plumber and he says we need to get a new toilet. Obviously i agree. My question is who should pay? I have said I'll pay purely because I know that it's not covered under normal wear and tear. When the inventory was done I was not present and after moving I found alot of things which I did tell the landlord. I cannot prove however this crack was repaired before and he might think I am lying or that I am just very unlucky. I do not want to create problems for myself or the landlord, I am very grateful to have been given a place to stay. I have probably answered my own question but any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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I would say a reasonable landlord should pay, it all depends on your history with him and whether he will give you benefit of the doubt. Does the crack look like someone's damaged the cistern or installation related?

If it's a failure of the landlord's property then the landlord should cover the cost of the replacement and any damage caused.

But if you've said that you'll pay then I think the whole debate is now moot tbh.

Original Poster

joey1352

I would say a reasonable landlord should pay, it all depends on your … I would say a reasonable landlord should pay, it all depends on your history with him and whether he will give you benefit of the doubt. Does the crack look like someone's damaged the cistern or installation related?



​well I've only seen the end result of the crack which is all up the side. I always thought it was left over plaster. it never occurred to me that it might be a crack. I even tried scraping it off once with no joy!!! it must have been relatively small because I've been here over a year. it's on the side close to the wall so you would never see it, so I can see how it may have been overlooked. it's going to cost about £300 including a brand new toilet. Obviously i would rather not pay but I can see how my landlord might argue that it was a crack therefore physical damage through neglect/ carelessness and how could I prove otherwise.

£300 seems a bit steep to me!

Original Poster

Dyslexic_Dog

£300 seems a bit steep to me!



​roughly,so £50.00 for new toilet and labour £110 by the hour approx 2hr job. more like 270/280.

Ask your landlord about their landlord insurance as it's likely covered under that and he should be able to make an emergency claim and get it sorted relatively quickly, especially as it's not your fault and that's why he has the insurance in the first place

When you move into a rented property, you need to carry out an inventory of the items in there and the faults with the items/ fittings.
I am not a landlord but would not like to be one.
All kinds of people provide references and promise to be good tenants and not damage the place.
I know someone who rented a house to the American military in the UK.
The Americans require that their soldiers etc. have excellent properties including decorating before renting.
That takes a month per year or per 2 years out of the income, and they don't pay high rentals either.
The American tenant dropped something in the bath and cracked it.
Put gaffer tape over the split and continued to use the bath..
Water entered the fabric of the house and overall cost £22000 to repair, plus loss of rental for the repair/ drying time.
The Americans do not allow claims against their nationals!
(Even if you can trace them)

Tenants must assess any damage BEFORE they move in, and pay for any damage they cause.

Original Poster

Rocklet

When you move into a rented property, you need to carry out an inventory … When you move into a rented property, you need to carry out an inventory of the items in there and the faults with the items/ fittings.I am not a landlord but would not like to be one.All kinds of people provide references and promise to be good tenants and not damage the place.I know someone who rented a house to the American military in the UK.The Americans require that their soldiers etc. have excellent properties including decorating before renting.That takes a month per year or per 2 years out of the income, and they don't pay high rentals either.The American tenant dropped something in the bath and cracked it.Put gaffer tape over the split and continued to use the bath..Water entered the fabric of the house and overall cost £22000 to repair, plus loss of rental for the repair/ drying time.The Americans do not allow claims against their nationals!(Even if you can trace them)Tenants must assess any damage BEFORE they move in, and pay for any damage they cause.



​this was my first property from leaving my parents. I was a newbie to the whole thing. I was not invited to any inventory and it was done by an independent assessor. after moving in I realised alot of things were not included I. e toilet did not flush, huge damp patch behind draws and mould etc ,some fixtures and fittings were also lose. my landlord did address some of the issues but others I just left. I felt bad especially considering I am a dss tenant to keep telling him this is wrong that is wrong. I have worked tirelessly to make this my home and any damage I cause is my responsibility and will undertake that, I do not understand how some people can damage rented properties and act like it isn't their problem. I do feel for landlords, so much that they are responsible for anyone irate tenant can cost them alot. That's not me, I would like to think that when he visits he is pleased that I have improved the property and can walk away confident in the knowledge that I will continue to maintain it.

Your landlord should pay. Just phone and explain I'm sure they will be fine.

Your landlord should pay. Just phone and explain I'm sure they will be fine.

zainarafiq

​roughly,so £50.00 for new toilet and labour £110 by the hour approx 2hr j … ​roughly,so £50.00 for new toilet and labour £110 by the hour approx 2hr job. more like 270/280.


Love to be a plumber on £5000 per week oO

If its not neglict on your part, then its very reasonable for the landlord to pay for it.

Call him... I think your worrying about nothing

Ask your question on landlordzone.co.uk/forums and get the informed opinions of landlords. I am a landlord and if I thought that the cistern had failed and that it was not caused by the tenant I would not expect the tenant to pay. Just part of the cost of keeping the property in good repair. The repair quote is a bit on the high side.

Original Poster

chocci

Love to be a plumber on £5000 per week oO



​I thought that was very reasonable. Although after reading the comments, I'm not so sure. I do not have a clue about plumbing or hourly rates but I was told for fitting a toilet that is the average.

I don't think it is reasonable of him to expect you to replace old with new at least not all the cost say you are willing to pay something but certainly nowhere near £300.

Could it be fixed by just buying a new cistern as that's what's broke not the toilet
Edited by: "patti" 5th Mar 2016

Banned

patti

Could it be fixed by just buying a new cistern as that's what's broke not … Could it be fixed by just buying a new cistern as that's what's broke not the toilet



You cant buy cisterns on there own & even if you could it would have to be a match to make & model.

Banned

zainarafiq

​roughly,so £50.00 for new toilet and labour £110 by the hour approx 2hr j … ​roughly,so £50.00 for new toilet and labour £110 by the hour approx 2hr job. more like 270/280.




More like £150 for the toilet & £60 x 2 hours.

Take pics of the residue to show that it has been repaired at some point and then explain to your landlord that you are not responsible for the payment as someone has repaired the toilet in the past and over time it has eventually failed.

If he gets arsey then explain you have rights and no way are you paying out of your own pocket for shoddy fixtures and fittings.

YouDontWantToKnow

You cant buy cisterns on there own & even if you could it would have to … You cant buy cisterns on there own & even if you could it would have to be a match to make & model.


Ok. Sorry didn't know that.

Ring your landlord and explain, maybe offer to pay half if that'll make you feel better? Or a third even? I think it's his responsibility to replace it seen as it is his property.

Banned

patti

Ok. Sorry didn't know that.



No need to say sorry. You are right. It would be the cheapest way if it was possible.

Rocklet

When you move into a rented property, you need to carry out an inventory … When you move into a rented property, you need to carry out an inventory of the items in there and the faults with the items/ fittings.I am not a landlord but would not like to be one.All kinds of people provide references and promise to be good tenants and not damage the place.I know someone who rented a house to the American military in the UK.The Americans require that their soldiers etc. have excellent properties including decorating before renting.That takes a month per year or per 2 years out of the income, and they don't pay high rentals either.The American tenant dropped something in the bath and cracked it.Put gaffer tape over the split and continued to use the bath..Water entered the fabric of the house and overall cost £22000 to repair, plus loss of rental for the repair/ drying time.The Americans do not allow claims against their nationals!(Even if you can trace them)Tenants must assess any damage BEFORE they move in, and pay for any damage they cause.



Moral of the story, don't rent to americans

I'm a landlord and there is no way I would expect a tenant to pay for such a repair. A toilet is a basic must have when renting and the only obligation you have is duty of care in informing your landlord of the matter. As others have stated ring your landlord again ask him to get it fixed as a matter of urgency as the longer it leaks the more damage it will cause. Don't mention money, leave that matter in his hands.
I recently replaced a broken toilet seat for my tenant and didn't think of charging for the privilege. We're not all bad apples.

Original Poster

YouDontWantToKnow

More like £150 for the toilet & £60 x 2 hours.



​no I'm buying the toilet, Google and cheapest is £50 from better bathrooms. the hourly quote was the cheapest of four some where talking without vat upwards of £300!!! I'm sure that it is more than the standard but I can't afford to shop around. lesson learned: prepare for the unexpected and cover your back in good time.

Banned

zainarafiq

​no I'm buying the toilet, Google and cheapest is £50 from better ba … ​no I'm buying the toilet, Google and cheapest is £50 from better bathrooms. the hourly quote was the cheapest of four some where talking without vat upwards of £300!!! I'm sure that it is more than the standard but I can't afford to shop around. lesson learned: prepare for the unexpected and cover your back in good time.



Hope it all works out well.

zainarafiq

​no I'm buying the toilet, Google and cheapest is £50 from better ba … ​no I'm buying the toilet, Google and cheapest is £50 from better bathrooms. the hourly quote was the cheapest of four some where talking without vat upwards of £300!!! I'm sure that it is more than the standard but I can't afford to shop around. lesson learned: prepare for the unexpected and cover your back in good time.


You're not taking the advice here. If YOU purchase the replacement YOU become liable for it during the tenancy unless you've arranged for the landlord to inherit it. Have you done this?

Are you and the LL/his agent in agreement on the quality of the replacement? Have you given the other side the ability to have a say in this or do you think that you don't need to?

Toptrumpet

I'm a landlord and there is no way I would expect a tenant to pay for … I'm a landlord and there is no way I would expect a tenant to pay for such a repair. A toilet is a basic must have when renting and the only obligation you have is duty of care in informing your landlord of the matter. As others have stated ring your landlord again ask him to get it fixed as a matter of urgency as the longer it leaks the more damage it will cause. Don't mention money, leave that matter in his hands.I recently replaced a broken toilet seat for my tenant and didn't think of charging for the privilege. We're not all bad apples.



​I'm also a landlord and I 100% agree with the above. What I always fail to understand is how landlords do not get their property up to scratch before they let it out, regardless of being DSS or not.

Original Poster

hubcms

​I'm also a landlord and I 100% agree with the above. What I always fail t … ​I'm also a landlord and I 100% agree with the above. What I always fail to understand is how landlords do not get their property up to scratch before they let it out, regardless of being DSS or not.



​I think the answer here is "estate agents ". plus the fact that in my case I virtually begged. populou, never thought of that. and you are right any other problems then my ' toilet' will be responsible. I am very very surprised at the responses especially from landlords( pm if you ever have a property vacant, you sound like lovely people!) because my landlord after explaining the situation, has said, in no uncertain terms, " this was never in the inventory and I have never seen a crack, in fact the property was refurbished prior to you moving". I could see where this was heading so I told him that I will foot the bill since it couldn't be proved otherwise. I think he has been duped by the agents too. Obviously they get paid to keep the property pristine and they have failed, so who would he believe? me, a dss single mum who practically would have been homeless if he didn't give me a chance or the agents he has used for the last 15 years? I must stop being so naive. I really have let things slide for fear of being evicted, the more I complain the more they'll want me out is what I thought. I can see his point too , this probably sounds too far fetched and he is probably thinking " this dss bitch is destroying my house" but it's the exact opposite I have done so much to bring it upto liveable standards.

Original Poster

oops, sorry about the "b****" word, totally slipped my mind.

Banned

zainarafiq

oops, sorry about the "b****" word, totally slipped my mind.



To be fair mate. It really isn't you who should be paying. A toilet is part of buildings insurance & should be covered by landlords insurance if they give a toss about their property. Also they are legally obliged to supply a working toilet.

Original Poster

YouDontWantToKnow

To be fair mate. It really isn't you who should be paying. A toilet is … To be fair mate. It really isn't you who should be paying. A toilet is part of buildings insurance & should be covered by landlords insurance if they give a toss about their property. Also they are legally obliged to supply a working toilet.



​I didn't really know that at first but I have most definitely been educated now!!! I have heard so many stories about evictions and the sort that I do not want any issues but I think it might be time to find someone who is not going to take advantage of the fact that I am dss tenant. thankyou to everyone, it's been a real eye opener and very informative

Banned

zainarafiq

​I didn't really know that at first but I have most definitely been e … ​I didn't really know that at first but I have most definitely been educated now!!! I have heard so many stories about evictions and the sort that I do not want any issues but I think it might be time to find someone who is not going to take advantage of the fact that I am dss tenant. thankyou to everyone, it's been a real eye opener and very informative



Fair play mate. Enjoy your life & put whatever agreement you made behind you. Next time you know better. We all live & learn.

The landlord pays the agents for their management services and if there are any repairs due, they're duty-bound to advise him. All the costed repairs come out of his pocket but the agents have contractors who they'd be more than happy to recommend.

There are two possibilities. Either the LL knew and carried out a repair on the cheap before your occupation, or he didn't. Either way, if there was a repair done to it then there are obvious signs.

A toilet being in the inventory is a new one. Ask him if he's recorded the taps, window's, carpet and light bulbs in this inventory too - if not then propose that you'll be off with them come expiry.

I appreciate you've probably come to an agreement but I think you should write a letter to his agent putting them on record that this toilet was damaged prior to your occupation and it and any consequential damage to the property as a result of its condition would not be your liability come the end of your tenancy. Also give them a chance to inspect now and make sure it's all documented in correspondence.

Best of luck.
Pops

YouDontWantToKnow

More like £150 for the toilet & £60 x 2 hours.


Toilet £58

plumbworld.co.uk/ess…360

A good DSS tenant is worth a lot more than a bad private one believe me. Assuming your rent is being paid and you are a good tenant do not under estimate your value. Not sure where you live but I would charge no more than £100 to fit a new toilet and dispose of the rubbish assuming almost on a like for like basis plus say £60 for the toilet. For what it's worth I'm in the trade.

I'm a landlord myself and be happy to pay for repairs if the letting agency told me about the fault during their routine quarterly check or the tennent/s did.

Original Poster

Evouk

I'm a landlord myself and be happy to pay for repairs if the letting … I'm a landlord myself and be happy to pay for repairs if the letting agency told me about the fault during their routine quarterly check or the tennent/s did.



​I think no one knew. but the general consensus is that they should pay. I would like to think the landlord appreciates that I am paying and therefore am a responsible, trustworthy tenant, one he would like to keep. I just hope he doesn't think she will pay for everything!

Original Poster

popolou

The landlord pays the agents for their management services and if there … The landlord pays the agents for their management services and if there are any repairs due, they're duty-bound to advise him. All the costed repairs come out of his pocket but the agents have contractors who they'd be more than happy to recommend.There are two possibilities. Either the LL knew and carried out a repair on the cheap before your occupation, or he didn't. Either way, if there was a repair done to it then there are obvious signs.A toilet being in the inventory is a new one. Ask him if he's recorded the taps, window's, carpet and light bulbs in this inventory too - if not then propose that you'll be off with them come expiry.I appreciate you've probably come to an agreement but I think you should write a letter to his agent putting them on record that this toilet was damaged prior to your occupation and it and any consequential damage to the property as a result of its condition would not be your liability come the end of your tenancy. Also give them a chance to inspect now and make sure it's all documented in correspondence.Best of luck.Pops



​carpets,light bulbs and even a bucket and cobwebby router were included. Not included: loose and mouldy window seals, mould and damp all over walls especially in bedroom, mouldy blinds, loose fixtures and fittings. I totally ignored and just wanted to move in hadte ( had baby on the way in 3 weeks) I thought I'll sort it out myself. even when I told the agent there was mould she said that wasn't possible and she had personally inspected the property! blamed me but I showed her where it was and explained after one week of moving I could not have created that much!!! I will however once work is completed get the landlord over to check the property thoroughly, at least my back will be covered.
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