bt phone wire for master socket

51
Found 23rd Mar 2015
hello just about to get infinity fibre optic from BT but a few years back moved my master socket to a bedroom through a few walls and with cheap wire and 3 joins (cheap extensions out of argos with ends cut off and joined)

now this was ok moving from dial up to broadband but with fibre optic will need to replace it with i believe copper phone wire
does anyone know the best wire to use (name and link please)

p.s i know you are not supposed to move your master socket but i did not know at the time and cant put it back as all my network in the home runs from where it is now.
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I think the proper wire you need is 4 core CW1308.

Maplin

Ebay


Edited by: "Poppyj1" 23rd Mar 2015
Original Poster
thanks thats excellent
The master socket and everything behind it is the property of Openreach, so what you did is kind of illegal. For future deference the master socket loves having extensions plugged into it, so you could have just left the master there and plugged in a high quality extension to where ever you wanted it.
The engineer comes, replaces your master socket (or faceplate, as needed) and fits a modem. They will extend the connection from master to a location you choose, so I wouldn't mess around doing anything yourself. Let them put the master in the proper place and extend to your chosen location. It will all be done properly and save you time and money.

They will extend the telephone connection to a point next to a power socket (for the modem) and/or run a data extension kit to a point of your choosing as they will not fit the kit to the end of an existing extension, only the master socket.

I have heard that some engineers are willing to move the master socket properly, as running the correct cable is no different to running the data connection. YMMV

They used to ask at time of order if your network kit is next to your master socket, so they'd anticipate putting in an extension, not sure if that's still the case (or you foolishly replied yes) but I've found the engineers to be very accommodating and do a very neat job with trunking and any holes. Maybe best you confirm this with your provider before they arrive though, as they may be different in what they allow the engineers to do (though it's openreach who do all the work, so should be fine)

I'd put the master socket back to it's original location, use your existing heath-Robinson affair for an extension in the meantime and let them sort out correct fitting (I did exactly that as the previous owner had bodged it like you )

Edited by: "tapi" 24th Mar 2015
Original Poster
ok BT at least 3 reps (one english speaking) have told me they do not need in the house but i was also under the impression you needed to change a faceplate (no fibre at this address in the past) but they are adament they do not need to

anyway it might be a bit heath-Robinson but it has worked for normal broadband

please look at the first answer and tell me if that wire can be used to replace the heath-Robinson setup i have by joining it to where the master socket used to be to where it is now

also is the wire that originally came to the master socket just 3 wires and not 4



Edited by: "madmax666" 24th Mar 2015
madmax666

ok BT at least 3 reps (one english speaking) have told me they do not … ok BT at least 3 reps (one english speaking) have told me they do not need in the house but i was also under the impression you needed to change a faceplate (no fibre at this address in the past) but they are adament they do not need toanyway it might be a bit heath-Robinson but it has worked for normal broadbandplease look at the first answer and tell me if that wire can be used to replace the heath-Robinson setup i have by joining it to where the master socket used to be to where it is nowalso is the wire that originally came to the master socket just 3 wires and not 4


Not needing entry? Sounds like you've got the 'self install' option then, not seen it myself but I think it behaves like ADSL, keeping same faceplate but going back to the need for filters on the telephone connections. do you have a filtered faceplate? if not, this would help you amazon.co.uk/gp/…DSL

4 or 6 core 1308 will do, doesn't matter as only 2 of the wires are used for the master (orange and white from street iirc).

Personally, I'd still put your master back where it should be, and rewire to existing point as a telephone extension and a DSL socket (see https://www.vmadmin.co.uk/other/357-moving-bt-infinity-dsl-from-master-socket-to-any-household-extension-socket) just because it's one less thing to worry about if you have issues in future and bt refuse to do anything before charging a large fee for replacing the master (whether it needs it or not)
Edited by: "tapi" 25th Mar 2015
Original Poster
Looks like a yellow round wire was to the master with 3 wires blue brown and green as in normal cable with the green cut off

But i never did this i only joined to it using a lego connection
Original Poster
removed the skirting and back material and this is the cable that was in the master socket on the right
brown and blue wire with the green cut and not used
I thought master socket wire was grey or black and thicker (that actually looks like normal house wire)

http://s7.postimg.org/l9sp7rfa3/IMG_0673.jpg



Edited by: "madmax666" 25th Mar 2015
Original Poster
Anyone like to comment on this
Yup, whoever did it used two wires in normal electric cable.
Original Poster
But that was original wire that was in. The master socket will i leave it
Original Poster
Is it good enough for fibre
It should work. But shorter length the better and all that.
Original Poster
How short because i am leaving the master socket where it is moved to but using the right cable joined to this one
Well, it's a moot point - if you're not moving it then the lengths going to be what it needs to be.
Original Poster
Would not be so bad if the cable was proper phone cable must have been someone who owned the house before me who used normal wire

Cant get BT to fix it as i have moved the master socket and they will charge an arm and a leg and probably put the master socket back to where it should be
Original Poster
Is there depreation on copper cable and how bad is it
You'd be surprised how much difference poor internal wiring can make to broadband speeds.
Can't you move the NTE5 to the point of entry and run a slave/LJU from the NTE5 to where you need the router. You can buy cable from wilkinsons.
BT/Openreach will have no way of telling it was you who moved the NTE5. If you're really bothered and can't DIY look for a telephone engineer in the yellow pages it'll take him no time and it shouldn't cost you much. I'd charge about £40 to move an NTE.
Original Poster
thanks paddy
I have moved the master socket from downstairs just inside door to a bedroom upstairs when going from dial up to normal broadband it goes through 3 walls and across loft space down to bedroom where it is now and has 3 joins with very cheap phone wire cut from extentions

It is a heath robinson affair but has worked fine but now i am getting fiber broadband i was thinking of leaving everything as it is but changing the cheap wire to cw1308 bt spec wire as i now have everything coming from the upstairs room ie extension/router/sky hd wired network cable etc etc

so best o[ption was to leave it and chance my luck with bt not bothering (in fact i have had an engineer in since and they said although i should not have moved it they said it was working fine)

now if you look at the pic above where i joined it a good few years back (lego block) the cable that was on the master socket originally looks like normal electral cable or did phone wire look like this before (i never did anything with it anyway)

as it goes into the wall its hard to say where it ends at so would like to know if i just join the correct cable after the lego block will this be ok and how good will the electral wire before it be

Its just a mess and i am getting stressed out as BT are enabling my fibre very soon
BT will charge if the master socket isn't set up as they originally installed two years ago when we had problems they wouldn't even send an engineer out until be paid the refundable fee first. When they fixed the line their issue not our it went off again a few weeks later had the same argument with them all over again. Last straw was a customer for 20 years and moved to Virgin
eslick

BT will charge if the master socket isn't set up as they originally … BT will charge if the master socket isn't set up as they originally installed two years ago when we had problems they wouldn't even send an engineer out until be paid the refundable fee first. When they fixed the line their issue not our it went off again a few weeks later had the same argument with them all over again. Last straw was a customer for 20 years and moved to Virgin


BT have no way of telling. If they can't prove a fault is down to your own negligence they can't charge you. What was the fault that BT/openreach found in your premises?


madmax666

thanks paddyI have moved the master socket from downstairs just inside … thanks paddyI have moved the master socket from downstairs just inside door to a bedroom upstairs when going from dial up to normal broadband it goes through 3 walls and across loft space down to bedroom where it is now and has 3 joins with very cheap phone wire cut from extentionsIt is a heath robinson affair but has worked fine but now i am getting fiber broadband i was thinking of leaving everything as it is but changing the cheap wire to cw1308 bt spec wire as i now have everything coming from the upstairs room ie extension/router/sky hd wired network cable etc etcso best o[ption was to leave it and chance my luck with bt not bothering (in fact i have had an engineer in since and they said although i should not have moved it they said it was working fine)now if you look at the pic above where i joined it a good few years back (lego block) the cable that was on the master socket originally looks like normal electral cable or did phone wire look like this before (i never did anything with it anyway)as it goes into the wall its hard to say where it ends at so would like to know if i just join the correct cable after the lego block will this be ok and how good will the electral wire before it beIts just a mess and i am getting stressed out as BT are enabling my fibre very soon



That cable is 100% not BT cable. You're best to wait and see how it goes. If it doesn't work raise a broadband fault with BT. They should send out an engineer to rectify the wiring. Never admit to doing anything to the wire before the NTE5. The engineer you had out should have standardised your installation. An NTE 5 should be placed at the point of entry and extensions ran from this point. This makes future fault finding easier and provides easy network separation for you the end user.
All you have to say is that it was all in place when you moved in. They should then put it as it should be. If you're having the slower speed adsl then it will be a self install, if you've gone for the fastest then an engineer will visit. They will fit a junction box at the cable entry point and run a single pair of wires to the place you want it up to a maximum of 20m. This has to be surfaced mounted cable. This is all included in the cost if you've gone for the top speed fibre.
eslick

BT will charge if the master socket isn't set up as they originally … BT will charge if the master socket isn't set up as they originally installed two years ago when we had problems they wouldn't even send an engineer out until be paid the refundable fee first. When they fixed the line their issue not our it went off again a few weeks later had the same argument with them all over again. Last straw was a customer for 20 years and moved to Virgin

madmax666

thanks paddyI have moved the master socket from downstairs just inside … thanks paddyI have moved the master socket from downstairs just inside door to a bedroom upstairs when going from dial up to normal broadband it goes through 3 walls and across loft space down to bedroom where it is now and has 3 joins with very cheap phone wire cut from extentionsIt is a heath robinson affair but has worked fine but now i am getting fiber broadband i was thinking of leaving everything as it is but changing the cheap wire to cw1308 bt spec wire as i now have everything coming from the upstairs room ie extension/router/sky hd wired network cable etc etcso best o[ption was to leave it and chance my luck with bt not bothering (in fact i have had an engineer in since and they said although i should not have moved it they said it was working fine)now if you look at the pic above where i joined it a good few years back (lego block) the cable that was on the master socket originally looks like normal electral cable or did phone wire look like this before (i never did anything with it anyway)as it goes into the wall its hard to say where it ends at so would like to know if i just join the correct cable after the lego block will this be ok and how good will the electral wire before it beIts just a mess and i am getting stressed out as BT are enabling my fibre very soon




Fault on ours was at the box outside the house, I kept telling them it was but the call centre wouldn't have it became stalemate we could have broadband but no phone, wasn't a problem as never used the phone anyway but the way they handled it and the speeds we were getting wasnt worth the hassle to stay with them when it did the same a few weeks later. Went from 1.9 mb or less to 100 with Virgin
Edited by: "eslick" 26th Mar 2015
Original Poster
Paddy_o_furniture

That cable is 100% not BT cable. You're best to wait and see how it … That cable is 100% not BT cable. You're best to wait and see how it goes. If it doesn't work raise a broadband fault with BT. They should send out an engineer to rectify the wiring. Never admit to doing anything to the wire before the NTE5. The engineer you had out should have standardised your installation. An NTE 5 should be placed at the point of entry and extensions ran from this point. This makes future fault finding easier and provides easy network separation for you the end user.



while posting on another forum digital spy someone says it is the old style cable bt used to use
see here forums.digitalspy.co.uk/sho…256
and someone on the same forum on another post has posted a picture of his wire from the junction box to the master socket and it looks much the same see here postimg.org/ima…jl/

anyway i have to leave it where it is now so my first task must be to get rid of the 3 joins and crap wire that i used to move the master socket to where it is now so will use what someone earler said bt standard 4 core 1308 but i am not sure what of the 4 wires to connect to the two wires i have here s7.postimg.org/l9s…jpg looks like blue and brown



Edited by: "madmax666" 27th Mar 2015
I never seen that wire in the 6 or so year I worked as openreach CSE.
If the one on the left is carrying the dial tone you'll need to connect pair one (usually solid blue and blue striped to it).
I'll have a look to see if I have any jelly crimps lying about rather than you using the lego block.
Original Poster
hello paddy my fault you thought it was not phone wire as i have misled you somewhat on the amount of wires and the colour there is 4 wires not three green,brown,blue and light brown could have been orange (only the blue and brown are used)
http://s4.postimg.org/r6opf1x0t/IMG_0680.jpg



Edited by: "madmax666" 27th Mar 2015
Original Poster
If i use the cw1308 4 core wire do i only use 2 wires to join to the blue and brown that went to my master socket previously or do i join both pairs to go in
See pic above
Dial tone only travels across a pair of wires (2 wires). The 3rd one when used is for slaves/lju's and is the bell wire.
Original Poster
Paddy_o_furniture

Dial tone only travels across a pair of wires (2 wires). The 3rd one … Dial tone only travels across a pair of wires (2 wires). The 3rd one when used is for slaves/lju's and is the bell wire.


youve lost me there which of the 4 wires on the cw1308 cable do i join to the blue and which do i join to the brown (see pic above)

p.s paddy did you read the post with the pic it was my fault you thought the wires were not bt wires

Edited by: "madmax666" 28th Mar 2015
madmax666

youve lost me there which of the 4 wires on the cw1308 cable do i join to … youve lost me there which of the 4 wires on the cw1308 cable do i join to the blue and which do i join to the brown (see pic above)p.s paddy did you read the post with the pic it was my fault you thought the wires were not bt wires


Me again! Bit confused now, you just asked which of the four to connect to blue and brown - I thought that side was the cable you wanted rid of? The left cable, you said is the bt incoming wire, should be orange and white (with black and green unused). No?
To make life easier, and give it a semblance of authenticity, I'd suggest you use one of these for making the connection ebay.co.uk/itm…001 and use blue/white for A and white/blue for B

Edited as just reread above - turns out you think it's the older cable, and blue/brown is actually likely blue/orange?
In that case, double check which is terminated where in the master (blue to a, orange to b perhaps?) and then just use the blue pairs as I said to replace your two or three runs, joined in the 80b box accordingly.

Edited by: "tapi" 29th Mar 2015
Original Poster
hello tapi is that block not for joining thick wire to small wire
i want to join the wire on the right of the picture (small) to cw1308 wire also small
Edited by: "madmax666" 29th Mar 2015
Original Poster
On this photo
http://s7.postimg.org/4o102i0fv/IMG_0680.jpg
and using this block where do i connect the wires in the block
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/412P3RDOXqL.jpg

Or this one WHAT EVER IS BETTER

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTQ1WDM5Nw==/z/6UEAAOSw0e9Uz3E9/$_12.JPG


Edited by: "madmax666" 29th Mar 2015
Sorry madmax, yes the joiner I mentioned is for thick wire to thin. I think I'm getting very confused. I thought the wire on the left was the cable coming in through the wall (which should be thick core, but couldn't be seen clearly) and you wanted to replace the cable on the right, and the other (two?) subsequent joins with a single run to the master socket.

But it seems from the annotated image that you're keeping the right, and replacing the left all the way to the relocated master socket? Is that right? So you will still have two joins, this one and the other at the ingress point where the external thick cable is joined to this one. Any reason you're not running the 1308 all the way between socket and incoming wire? Presumably difficult to access?
If you are just going to do it here, then the block you want is of the type shown at the top of the two. Punching down thin wire on each side. You'd put the two wires in use, blue and orange(light brown?) punched into slots 1 and 2, and then punch the two strands from 1308 (as suggested, blue/white and white/blue) into the corresponding block on the opposite side (in the picture shown, the blocks directly below)

from the questions asked, rather than punch down connectors, You'd find it easier to use jelly crimps, as someone else mentioned above. See telephone-wiring.co.uk/gel…asp where you can buy them (or try ebay)and describes how you use them (but simply, one wire in each hole, squeeze with pliers)
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/25-BT-VIRGIN-TELEPHONE-CABLE-REPAIR-SPLICE-JOINER-2-WIRE-JELLY-CRIMPS-CONNECTOR-/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/$T2eC16JHJHEE9ny2p6fJBQqD4Kpkm%21~~60_35.JPG




Edited by: "tapi" 29th Mar 2015
Original Poster
Yes that is correct i cant get right the way back to where the thick wire comes in because it goes into the wall and i cant see where it goes (i have an idea but as i have laid wooden floors the glue type not the click in i cant access the hatch where i think this might lead to)

will jelly clamps still be ok if one side of the wire is very slightly thicker than the other



Edited by: "madmax666" 29th Mar 2015
If slightly thicker yes, should be fine, there's an easy tolerance. They have the IDC's inside, just like the punch down block, so no different in that regard to what size wire they are suitable for.
Found a handy vid for you that shows it all youtu.be/c85…HaA and you should tell from that if they're suitable for the wire you have (but from pics, I'd say ok)
Edited by: "tapi" 29th Mar 2015
Original Poster
thanks i was a bit worried the old wire on the right on the pic i posted 3 posts up might a bit thicker than the newer cw1308 wire




Edited by: "madmax666" 29th Mar 2015
madmax666

thanks i was a bit worried the old wire on the right on the pic i posted … thanks i was a bit worried the old wire on the right on the pic i posted 3 posts up might be thicker than the newer cw1308 wirebtw your video link gives a 404 error but i managed to access it anyway


Stray comma found its way into link. Fixed for future reference
Original Poster
ok the wire on the right is 1.25mm over the sheeth and i believe the cw1308 to be 0.50mm over the sheeth
will that difference be ok for the jelly crimps
my worry is if pushing down on the clamps it grips the thickest wire
Edited by: "madmax666" 29th Mar 2015
madmax666

ok the wire on the right is 1.25mm over the sheeth and i believe the … ok the wire on the right is 1.25mm over the sheeth and i believe the cw1308 to be 0.50mm over the sheethwill that difference be ok for the jelly crimpsmy worry is if pushing down on the clamps it grips the thickest wire


Now, I don't want to guarantee anything, but seeing as the crimp closes the same amount no matter what (the IDC pushes down to the plastic) and each wire is in a separate vee, then that shouldn't be a problem. The max insulator diameter on the jelly crimp I've just looked at says 1.52mm so that sounds within spec.
If you did hit a snag, which I don't foresee, you could even just double over the end of the 1308 wire before inserting it
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