Groups

    Camber Sands drownings - sad loss but families blame council & services

    According to news articles some family members of the bereaved are pushing the blame of the deaths onto the council and/or life guards.

    bbc.co.uk/new…585
    theguardian.com/uk-…ion

    "Relatives have also criticised the lack of lifeguards on the stretch of Sussex coastline."

    "that the stretch of beach where they died had not been blocked off following Mr Da Cruz's death last month"

    "The family were feeling angry that the stretch of beach had not been blocked off after a man died there last month, his sister said."

    Now we are an island with over 7,000 miles of coastline and we can't provide protection for every inch and in some cases warning signs and advice is given but ignored.

    There is a greater risk of an accident when you put yourself at risk.

    It seems to me that some people just want to blame everyone else for their lack of common sense or maybe it's a financial gain opportunity?

    Either way why the press give them air time is just beyond me.

    44 Comments

    Banned

    Its just anger from grief.

    I am sure they will feel differently in time.

    it is human nature to look for reasons, if only............... what if...............

    its very sad, thoughts are with the family

    the sea is not the local pool

    Sorry OP but how can it be possibly right that a huge beach with 25000 visitors has no lifeguards
    but the tiny one round the corner does ?

    The families are saying that when the incident of the Brazilian lad drowning last month near the same place these 5 lads drowned, something should have been done about life guards from then on.

    What the families are also alluding to is the council new that the stretch of the beach where the Brazilian guy and these 5 lads drowned was unsafe and yet did not close it off.

    That's just reading between the lines. Don't know what the council response is but I'm sure there will be a investigation into the incident.

    The place I just came back has three stations fair enough they have a lifeboat station
    the resource are obviously there
    then miles of coast with no lifeguard stations apart from one particularly dangerous remote beach
    now I don't know which scenario fits this case but I would have thought temporary lifeguards while the 'review' took place is the least that could have been done

    thewongwing101

    The place I just came back has three stations fair enough they have a … The place I just came back has three stations fair enough they have a lifeboat stationthe resource are obviously therethen miles of coast with no lifeguard stations apart from one particularly dangerous remote beachnow I don't know which scenario fits this case but I would have thought temporary lifeguards while the 'review' took place is the least that could have been done



    ​The thing is all lifeboats are run by volunteers with no public funding at all, it's all money raised through charity.

    Dyslexic_Dog

    ​The thing is all lifeboats are run by volunteers with no public funding a … ​The thing is all lifeboats are run by volunteers with no public funding at all, it's all money raised through charity.



    looks like the government wants the whole country to be run by 'charity' apart from the things that makes them and their mates money. food banks, life guards etc (_;)

    Dyslexic_Dog

    ​The thing is all lifeboats are run by volunteers with no public funding a … ​The thing is all lifeboats are run by volunteers with no public funding at all, it's all money raised through charity.


    And they always have been I think
    So I don't know where this council thing comes from?

    Banned

    Dyslexic_Dog

    ​The thing is all lifeboats are run by volunteers with no public funding a … ​The thing is all lifeboats are run by volunteers with no public funding at all, it's all money raised through charity.



    A national disgrace for an island.

    cchopps

    A national disgrace for an island.



    The RNLI doesn't want government funding and interference...
    Edited by: "RossD89" 26th Aug 2016

    EN1GMA

    looks like the government wants the whole country to be run by 'charity' … looks like the government wants the whole country to be run by 'charity' apart from the things that makes them and their mates money. food banks, life guards etc (_;)


    It is the coastguard that has had its funding slashed

    Quite a high percentage of foreigners drowning in the sea recently.

    I went to Whitesands in St Davids last week and its not a very big beach, compared to some round here, also it stays very shallow for a fair distance..

    https://www.coolcamping.co.uk/system/images/5728/whitesands-west-wales-pembrokeshire-large.jpg

    yet there is a lifeguard cabin, and life guards watching over the whole beach, very safe place.

    I am confused why camber sands (i've never been) being so large, and having 'trenches' in which the tide can trap you, wouldnt have some lifeguards?

    Original Poster

    haritori

    I went to Whitesands in St Davids last week and its not a very big beach, … I went to Whitesands in St Davids last week and its not a very big beach, compared to some round here, also it stays very shallow for a fair distance..yet there is a lifeguard cabin, and life guards watching over the whole beach, very safe place.I am confused why camber sands (i've never been) being so large, and having 'trenches' in which the tide can trap you, wouldnt have some lifeguards?



    I also assume that like me when you go to the beach with an expectation to swim in the sea you also research on how the waters act and review safety precautions and if you knew that a death had occurred a few days earlier then maybe, if there was no lifeguards etc, you would reconsider whether to swim or not?

    or is that just only a very small percentage of the human race who would do this?

    I remember going to Cancun, Mexico and that Caribbean Sea would roll about 4ft high waves directly onto the beach.. there was no lifeguards, no safety but I still had to experience it and I don't remember seeing any swimmers. Where as in The Philippines at the local beach, where I was, was full of rubbish, nappys and the like and you needed to wade out about 50mtrs before you could swim in relatively clean water and still you'd only be waist high water. There, the only risk of anything dangerous, was a stomach bug or dirty feet getting back off the beach.

    I think we are lucky to have RNLI and the Coastguard (and others) and the ability to swim or go to the beach in almost all 7,000 miles of coastline - it just needs common sense when visiting.

    thewongwing101

    Sorry OP but how can it be possibly right that a huge beach with 25000 … Sorry OP but how can it be possibly right that a huge beach with 25000 visitors has no lifeguardsbut the tiny one round the corner does ?




    There's no lifeguards down the local river near me.

    sounds like a little rip current as the tide was incoming, only takes one to get out of his depth & the others try to help but then they're all in trouble,

    people underestimate the dangers of going into the sea unless you're a very strong swimmer

    philphil61

    I also assume that like me when you go to the beach with an expectation … I also assume that like me when you go to the beach with an expectation to swim in the sea you also research on how the waters act and review safety precautions and if you knew that a death had occurred a few days earlier then maybe, if there was no lifeguards etc, you would reconsider whether to swim or not?or is that just only a very small percentage of the human race who would do this?I remember going to Cancun, Mexico and that Caribbean Sea would roll about 4ft high waves directly onto the beach.. there was no lifeguards, no safety but I still had to experience it and I don't remember seeing any swimmers. Where as in The Philippines at the local beach, where I was, was full of rubbish, nappys and the like and you needed to wade out about 50mtrs before you could swim in relatively clean water and still you'd only be waist high water. There, the only risk of anything dangerous, was a stomach bug or dirty feet getting back off the beach.I think we are lucky to have RNLI and the Coastguard (and others) and the ability to swim or go to the beach in almost all 7,000 miles of coastline - it just needs common sense when visiting.



    If I was being completely honest, then no I didn't research the seas etc, but if the death had of happened prior then maybe I would of, Education is the problem maybe?

    philphil61

    I also assume that like me when you go to the beach with an expectation … I also assume that like me when you go to the beach with an expectation to swim in the sea you also research on how the waters act and review safety precautions and if you knew that a death had occurred a few days earlier then maybe, if there was no lifeguards etc, you would reconsider whether to swim or not?or is that just only a very small percentage of the human race who would do this?I remember going to Cancun, Mexico and that Caribbean Sea would roll about 4ft high waves directly onto the beach.. there was no lifeguards, no safety but I still had to experience it and I don't remember seeing any swimmers. Where as in The Philippines at the local beach, where I was, was full of rubbish, nappys and the like and you needed to wade out about 50mtrs before you could swim in relatively clean water and still you'd only be waist high water. There, the only risk of anything dangerous, was a stomach bug or dirty feet getting back off the beach.I think we are lucky to have RNLI and the Coastguard (and others) and the ability to swim or go to the beach in almost all 7,000 miles of coastline - it just needs common sense when visiting.



    tbh Phil, not many people do research as its a case of it wont happen to me or I know how to swim etc. People go on the beach to have fun, relax and things concerning safety such as the water is not really considered unless of course, incidents like this have happened so its fresh in peoples minds. that's just the reality really in't it?

    If it's a very busy beach it does seem a little odd to me there are no lifeguards. I was at the beach earlier this week and was very surprised to find not one but three sets of red and yellow flags, each with their own set of guards.

    I grew up by the sea and am very well educated about rip tides. These people were from London. Perhaps if they understood how they worked they would have stood a better chance of survival? That is down to education.

    From what I've have read I am dubious whether some of them could swim. That on the other hand seems mad to me, why would you get past your ankles in the sea if you can't swim? Especially with no lifeguard.

    Seems life a combination, there should have been lifeguards, but perhaps they didn't behave very responsibly either.
    Edited by: "MSK." 26th Aug 2016

    moneysavingkitten

    If it's a very busy beach it does seem a little odd to me there are no … If it's a very busy beach it does seem a little odd to me there are no lifeguards. I was at the beach earlier this week and was very surprised to find not one but three sets of red and yellow flag, each with their own set of guards.I grew up by the sea and am very well educated about rip tides. These people were from London. Perhaps if they understood how they worked they would have stood a better chance of survival? That is down to education. From what I've have read I am dubious if some of them could swim. That on the other hand seems mad to me, why would you get past your ankles in the sea if you can't swim? Especially with no lifeguard.Seems life a combination, there should have been lifeguards, but perhaps they didn't behave very responsibly either.


    i'll be honest, ive heard of rip tides but no idea what they actually or how they are dangerous. but I don't go knee deep in the water anyway so not really on my mind.

    EN1GMA

    i'll be honest, ive heard of rip tides but no idea what they actually or … i'll be honest, ive heard of rip tides but no idea what they actually or how they are dangerous. but I don't go knee deep in the water anyway so not really on my mind.



    http://www.chicasurfadventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Rip-Current-Escape-larger.jpg

    Riptides drag you out to sea. You never fight a riptide. If you try to swim against them back to the shore you can't, you will just exhaust yourself. However they are circular. If you let them take you out, they will eventually bring you back in again, like in the picture above. So swimming parallel to the beach is the best thing you can do.

    They occur when waves going forward are pushed back again by something like a sandbar under the water.

    Sometimes they can't be seen and they can move position. So it is important to check if the beach you are going to has a riptide or not. So that you know what to do if you find yourself in difficulty.
    Edited by: "MSK." 26th Aug 2016

    Wikipedia has a nice gif:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Backcomp.gif/300px-Backcomp.gif

    en.wikipedia.org/wik…ent

    That's a lot of the reason life guards put out red and yellow flags. If you swim between them you should be avoiding any rip current.
    Edited by: "MSK." 26th Aug 2016

    The dangers of Camber Sands rip currents explained - bbc.co.uk/new…642

    haritori

    I went to Whitesands in St Davids last week and its not a very big beach, … I went to Whitesands in St Davids last week and its not a very big beach, compared to some round here, also it stays very shallow for a fair distance..yet there is a lifeguard cabin, and life guards watching over the whole beach, very safe place.I am confused why camber sands (i've never been) being so large, and having 'trenches' in which the tide can trap you, wouldnt have some lifeguards?


    Like I said above may have something to do with the nearby lifeboat station
    is the only lifeguard station in north Pembrokeshire as far as I know
    can get very busy at time with swimmers and/or surfers at times
    I would guess it services the stations at Newgale and broadhaven(north)
    edit found the map
    one at Newport(don't remember that at all maybe new?)
    and poppit sands
    rnli.org/fin…012
    Edited by: "Wongy110" 26th Aug 2016

    teh arn

    There's no lifeguards down the local river near me.


    Doubt there are 25k swimmers ? (_;) (still find that figure incredible )
    certainly not here when the water is 2 inches deep (_;)

    thewongwing101

    Like I said above may have something to do with the nearby lifeboat … Like I said above may have something to do with the nearby lifeboat station is the only lifeguard station in north Pembrokeshire as far as I knowcan get very busy at time with swimmers and/or surfers at timesI would guess it services the stations at Newgale and broadhaven(north).



    Most likely Newgale is a pretty rough sea at times.

    haritori

    Most likely Newgale is a pretty rough sea at times.


    All these beaches can be busy like I said but a few hundred at most
    not 25k ffs

    Really very cross about this Philip and whoever else is reading
    from what I have read these are just guys coming down from London for a jolly at the seaside
    yes they have been a bit stupid so what ? is this how we take care of our citizens ?

    haritori

    I went to Whitesands in St Davids last week and its not a very big beach, … I went to Whitesands in St Davids last week and its not a very big beach, compared to some round here, also it stays very shallow for a fair distance..yet there is a lifeguard cabin, and life guards watching over the whole beach, very safe place.I am confused why camber sands (i've never been) being so large, and having 'trenches' in which the tide can trap you, wouldnt have some lifeguards?


    Watched the first p
    moneysavingkitten

    Wikipedia has a nice gif:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rip_currentThat's … Wikipedia has a nice gif:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rip_currentThat's a lot of the reason life guards put out red and yellow flags. If you swim between them you should be avoiding any rip current.


    So the lady I saw on Saturday was in more peril than I thought ?
    http://i.imgur.com/ZQdfrjV.jpg
    tried to swim in that
    and here is the petition posted over a month ago
    change.org/p/g…mer

    Edited by: "Wongy110" 26th Aug 2016

    moneysavingkitten

    Wikipedia has a nice gif:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rip_currentThat's … Wikipedia has a nice gif:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rip_currentThat's a lot of the reason life guards put out red and yellow flags. If you swim between them you should be avoiding any rip current.


    I'm pretty sure I saw that same thing in a sex education class in the 80's.

    Original Poster

    thewongwing101

    Really very cross about this Philip and whoever else is readingfrom what … Really very cross about this Philip and whoever else is readingfrom what I have read these are just guys coming down from London for a jolly at the seasideyes they have been a bit stupid so what ? is this how we take care of our citizens ?


    I only get called that if I've been a very naughty boy

    And yes "these are just guys coming down from London for a jolly at the seaside" does that excuse them or anyone else for considering "their choices/options". Nobody forced them into the sea. They should have accessed the situation not just dive in thinking everything is OK - you wouldn't do that on an Australian beach.

    "is this how we take care of our citizens" - are we all supposed to hold their hands when they want to do something stupid? If we tell them that paragliding is dangerous would they still paraglide. If we tell them that the bungee jump they are about to take could kill them in many ways would thy still jump?

    Yes I agree that something is amiss with either warning flags or signs or even lifeguards but we still get people who want to ignore all the warnings and continue - sorry to say it but nothing more than Darwinians

    Just for example - why didn't the family tell them about the dangers of swimming in that area? Why is the family now trying to pass the buck?

    Hey I get it ---- as per miles comment "it is human nature to look for reasons, if only............... what if.............." but still even if the warnings, even if there's lifeguards... seriously how many will still ignore

    philphil61

    I only get called that if I've been a very naughty boyAnd yes "these are … I only get called that if I've been a very naughty boyAnd yes "these are just guys coming down from London for a jolly at the seaside" does that excuse them or anyone else for considering "their choices/options". Nobody forced them into the sea. They should have accessed the situation not just dive in thinking everything is OK - you wouldn't do that on an Australian beach."is this how we take care of our citizens" - are we all supposed to hold their hands when they want to do something stupid? If we tell them that paragliding is dangerous would they still paraglide. If we tell them that the bungee jump they are about to take could kill them in many ways would thy still jump?Yes I agree that something is amiss with either warning flags or signs or even lifeguards but we still get people who want to ignore all the warnings and continue - sorry to say it but nothing more than Darwinians Just for example - why didn't the family tell them about the dangers of swimming in that area? Why is the family now trying to pass the buck? Hey I get it ---- as per miles comment "it is human nature to look for reasons, if only............... what if.............." but still even if the warnings, even if there's lifeguards... seriously how many will still ignore



    They're grown men, perhaps their families didn't even know they were going?

    If you're not educated about the sea, how are you to know it's so dangerous? People ITT didn't know what a rip current was.

    philphil61

    I only get called that if I've been a very naughty boyAnd yes "these are … I only get called that if I've been a very naughty boyAnd yes "these are just guys coming down from London for a jolly at the seaside" does that excuse them or anyone else for considering "their choices/options". Nobody forced them into the sea. They should have accessed the situation not just dive in thinking everything is OK - you wouldn't do that on an Australian beach."is this how we take care of our citizens" - are we all supposed to hold their hands when they want to do something stupid? If we tell them that paragliding is dangerous would they still paraglide. If we tell them that the bungee jump they are about to take could kill them in many ways would thy still jump?Yes I agree that something is amiss with either warning flags or signs or even lifeguards but we still get people who want to ignore all the warnings and continue - sorry to say it but nothing more than Darwinians Just for example - why didn't the family tell them about the dangers of swimming in that area? Why is the family now trying to pass the buck? Hey I get it ---- as per miles comment "it is human nature to look for reasons, if only............... what if.............." but still even if the warnings, even if there's lifeguards... seriously how many will still ignore


    I don't know what what would happen on an Australian beach
    or even what happened here as it has suddenly disappeared from our medja
    truth will hopefully out on exactly what happened
    don't think banding about pointless words like 'Darwinians' (whatever it means ) helps

    and nobody has explained to me why a 'tourist' beach with a few hundred people on it at most deserves lifeguards
    but this one with a regular 25k ! does not !
    looks like the weekend storms affecting the sandbars may have been a factor

    Original Poster

    moneysavingkitten

    They're grown men, perhaps their families didn't even know they were … They're grown men, perhaps their families didn't even know they were going?If you're not educated about the sea, how are you to know it's so dangerous? People ITT didn't know what a rip current was.


    Is that down to intelligence? or common sense? or just good old stupidity?
    You don't poke your fingers into an electrical socket without first making sure it's safe.

    I have known since I was a very little boy that water is dangerous!
    I've known what a rip tide is since my early teens
    Going back to my comment about Cancun and the Caribbean with it's 4ft rolling waves beating down hard onto the beach. I could swim but I saw the power, I asked the questions and took the advice and, as you can clearly see, I got back safely - I didn't just dive in and hope for the best.

    You wouldn't catch me anywhere near the Humber Estuary on foot - I've been close to Humber. I've seen the devastation and tidal wash miles up the river so I already know it's a dangerous place to go.

    If I was heading towards Camber Sands and I'd already heard of one recent death I'd be looking for another beach which was monitored/secure (with lifeguards) if I still wanted to enter the water because I wouldn't put myself at risk whereas it seems to me these others just wanted a jolly at any risk and they paid the ultimate price.

    Yes accidents happen - most could be avoided with forethought

    as I said something is amiss with regards to safety warnings/flags etc but I also said even if all the safety measures are put in place and working you will still get people ignoring them and I honestly believe that the recent deaths would still have happened because several young men decided the other warning (the recent drowning) was not strong enough message.

    philphil61

    Is that down to intelligence? or common sense? or just good old … Is that down to intelligence? or common sense? or just good old stupidity?You don't poke your fingers into an electrical socket without first making sure it's safe.I have known since I was a very little boy that water is dangerous!I've known what a rip tide is since my early teensGoing back to my comment about Cancun and the Caribbean with it's 4ft rolling waves beating down hard onto the beach. I could swim but I saw the power, I asked the questions and took the advice and, as you can clearly see, I got back safely - I didn't just dive in and hope for the best. You wouldn't catch me anywhere near the Humber Estuary on foot - I've been close to Humber. I've seen the devastation and tidal wash miles up the river so I already know it's a dangerous place to go. If I was heading towards Camber Sands and I'd already heard of one recent death I'd be looking for another beach which was monitored/secure (with lifeguards) if I still wanted to enter the water because I wouldn't put myself at risk whereas it seems to me these others just wanted a jolly at any risk and they paid the ultimate price.Yes accidents happen - most could be avoided with forethoughtas I said something is amiss with regards to safety warnings/flags etc but I also said even if all the safety measures are put in place and working you will still get people ignoring them and I honestly believe that the recent deaths would still have happened because several young men decided the other warning (the recent drowning) was not strong enough message.



    4ft waves in the Caribbean you can see. Rip tides most of the time you can't. That's one of the reasons they are so dangerous.

    You know electrical sockets are dangerous because someone told you. Or at least I am guessing you didn't stick a coat hanger in one to find out for yourself?

    Yeah it's not very bright and I wouldn't do it myself. But I don't know what they were taught or what signage was there. Or whether they were behaving well at the beach or had been drinking or anything else.

    I'm with you on the point that any large body of water can be extremely dangerous, sea or otherwise. People should be taught from then they are small children that is the case. But as I said, I am lucky to have been taught these things because I grew up by the sea.

    I never go in the sea. Hate it. Far too many things in it that'll kill you, including the sea itself.
    Post a comment
    Avatar
    @
      Text
      Top Discussions
      1. Any Just Eat Vouchers around?22
      2. Any better deals after year's Sky subscription is nearly up?22
      3. sky q is it a good deal?55
      4. Speccing a gaming pc37

      See more discussions