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can my employer make me work off the clock?

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Found 8th Feb 2015
I have been told I need to count my till float, after hours now. This means clocking out at the end of my shift, and staying up to 15 minutes more to count my tills takings. Is this allowed in the UK?

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62 Comments

Working and not getting paid for it? Can't imagine its legal

It's totally wrong morally.

How many other people work with you? You need to stand together!

Depends on your employment contract. It is common for salaried employees not to be paid overtime.

What is your employers justification for asking you to do unpaid work?

Why not just not count it and go home?

You should be paid for it. Only where there is a discrepancy and you have to sort it out are you expected to stay unpaid.

pathetic really if you can find another job u may aswell tell him shove the till up where it belongs

Who do you work for?

There are 2 fact sheets which the Citizens Advice Bureau produces - they are in PDF format so you will need a reader which can do this.
One is Changes to employment contracts
And the other is Employer withholds your pay

I include the latter simply because I assume you work in retail of some sort - as you said you have count your tills takings - as such it would seem you would be responsible for any shortfalls. Its questionable whether you need to do the accounting in your own time.

Name and shame!.

if you're required to clock out this sounds dodgy to me - for instance in the event you get injured at work whilst clocked out, how would this be covered by insurance?

15 minutes? Maybe learn to count better.

tardytortoise

There are 2 fact sheets which the Citizens Advice Bureau produces - they … There are 2 fact sheets which the Citizens Advice Bureau produces - they are in PDF format so you will need a reader which can do this.One is Changes to employment contractsAnd the other is Employer withholds your payI include the latter simply because I assume you work in retail of some sort - as you said you have count your tills takings - as such it would seem you would be responsible for any shortfalls. Its questionable whether you need to do the accounting in your own time.


Good links

This country is getting more like certain eastern countries every day. Won't be long before the sweat shops will be moved back here.
About time we had a revolution, brought back workhouses and stuck these managers/directors and politicians in them for a good few years.

Used to work in a certain toy shop that expected me to be in 15 minutes prior to start time to count tills and get ready. This job was a 5 day a week 4hr a day jobby so those 15 minutes added up. When i didnt bother showing up until my actual start time the manager wrote me up for being late to which i laughed. Lasted 3 months there. Get out now my friend.
Edited by: "drago773" 8th Feb 2015

I'm not sure myself but definately check with CAB- citizens advice bureau
http://www.citizensadvice.org.uk
Just a quick call will answer this question.

Join a union, it is a variation of contact and has to be consulted. If they withold pay or discipline you for a refusal to do this then you should raise a grievance and consider acas conciliation (search acas early conciliation)

get a hold of your contract and employee handbook

then spend a while checking through the legislation involved.

yes join a union before you start the grievance process as they don't touch retrospective cases.

I'm having similar with a very large employer..I have refused all overtime as I felt it was forced on me,and now start 40 minutes later than everyone and take a break.

about as popular as a fart in a sauna,but of I give money away its to charity not my employer.


Also a lot of businesses ask you to clock in as you enter the building
And clock off when you finish
This is so they know who is in the building incase of a fire
Bit suss about having to clock off

years ago i use to work at the co-op, and they expected is to be at our tills 10 mins before opening to get the cash sorted etc.... also (in the days) when they closed at 6 (before late night opening), it could be 20 mins later before the last customer left had finished shopping, bagged up etc...( Thinking we had no homes to go to, and it was our pleasure they were still in store- in our time- with no pay). Looking back then i was young (17), so just put up with it! Would i put up with it now/? Not a chance, if they want more out of you, then they should pay you- or you would be in your rights to tell em to "Stuff it!"

Guess the amount you have to count and leave a minute later than you clock out.
You're welcome.

Whom do you work for ?

im guessing a fast food restaurant ?

Ring ACAS, is this Coop by any chance, sounds like their way of working.

no he can't. two main reasons, first against fire regs, second against cash regulations. call your union rep or join one if not. they can sort it out. lastly, change jobs.

My Daughter is a neo-natal nurse. She works until 8.15 am when on a night shift. She is then expected to do the hand over to the next shift and she doesn't get paid for spending this extra time which can be upto 40 minutes depending on what problems have arisen overnight. This seems to be normal practice in hospitals. Seems very unfair.

Normal practise for the majority of retail or low paid jobs. As an experienced or senior member of staff you're expected to count the float, calculate daily takings, even set-up equipment for the next day without extra pay. Sadly it is part of the requirement of the job, and most small companies to large corporations insist it's done without extra remuneration. That's the problem, with weak (selfishness) of the Unions, high demand for retail jobs and position in the organization it allows the companies to exploit their staff and there is nobody to fight your corner.

Banned

I quite often start ten min early, or have a short lunch, or stay on a bit to help out. It's called a mature work ethic.

Funny how people clock watch to the nearest minute. 15 min is nothing.

Banned

dcx_badass

That's great if you're respected by work or salaried. But most low paying … That's great if you're respected by work or salaried. But most low paying jobs such as retail treat the staff like ****, if you're late they have a mental breakdown, yet want staff to do extra for them, it's a two way street.



How do you think you get to be respected and salaried? If you start 10 min early every day or stay on, with good grace, the bosses notice. Sorry but there are some really bad attitudes about work on this post. If people don't like the rules at work they can always look elsewhere. Look for the positives. I have a job which many do not in this day and age, I get paid. They want me to stay on 15 min sometimes. So what, I chose to work here.

Edited by: "Musician" 9th Feb 2015

Banned

dcx_badass

I disagree, in my experience in low paying jobs/retail, the people who … I disagree, in my experience in low paying jobs/retail, the people who move up initially are the ones who get on with managers not work hard, so where I worked it tended to be the people who would sit in the staff room with them gossiping about other staff. Those people don't get far in the long run, but short term get ahead. Better off just moving elsewhere than trying to go far somewhere like that, I moved from retail to my current job and jumped straight to a higher wage than people 2 or 3 steps above me within retail.



I hear what you are saying, as I said, "They can always look elsewhere" If you choose to work somewhere you have to play by their rules generally if you want to get on. I'm lucky I have a job I love now, but it did take 20 years of hard work, additional unpaid hours and many job changes to get there.
Edited by: "Musician" 9th Feb 2015

If your not paying me for the time then I'm not working simple as.
Either close the till early to do the count or just leave it.
By having you clock out they are making sure they don't have to pay you, its also taking you off the books as being on-site. So should anything happen like a fire or an accident your putting yourself at risk as your not officially working at the time.

The trouble is the retail business is entry level and seasonal so they tend to get away with stuff like this.

The simple answer is no.

Regardless of contract, it would be deemed in breach of numerous regulations. Sometimes a contract is referred to as a statement of fact by employers, in law it could not be further from the truth. Many take a contract as gospel, as highlighted by numerous responses in this thread. A contract can be challenged in law at any point, being instructed to complete a task, no matter who is accountable, would be deemed as employment. The law is simple in this case.

I use to work for a company where you had to go through a metal detector before you clock in and at the end of the shift to clock out and then go to a metal detector.

I did my calculations and I was wasting 20 min per shift and not being paid for it. I might not sound a lot but do the maths:


20 per day = 1.40 hour per week. Lets assume you work 48 weeks per year: 48 x 1.40= 67.20

Even on minimum wage that would be over 400 quid per year.

Obviously I left that company within 3 months of employment!

Banned

It's actually quite shocking, but not surprising some of the attitudes here. Then people wonder why companies actively go out to employ people from overseas that don't complain so much. Then in turn the same people originally complaining, complain there is no work for indigenous folk! I guess I will put some of it down to immaturity / inexperience of the work place.

Musician

It's actually quite shocking, but not surprising some of the attitudes … It's actually quite shocking, but not surprising some of the attitudes here. Then people wonder why companies actively go out to employ people from overseas that don't complain so much. Then in turn the same people originally complaining, complain there is no work for indigenous folk! I guess I will put some of it down to immaturity / inexperience of the work place.




Musician

I hear what you are saying, as I said, "They can always look elsewhere" … I hear what you are saying, as I said, "They can always look elsewhere" If you choose to work somewhere you have to play by their rules generally if you want to get on. I'm lucky I have a job I love now, but it did take 20 years of hard work, additional unpaid hours and many job changes to get there.


Its taken you 20 years of hard work, job changes and unpaid hours to find a job you love? So you've wasted half of your working life getting to this point, doing jobs you didn't enjoy and not getting paid for many of the hours you've done and you think its OK to criticise other peoples work ethics? I'd say you must have "mug" written on your forehead.

Banned

stuarthanley

Its taken you 20 years of hard work, job changes and unpaid hours to find … Its taken you 20 years of hard work, job changes and unpaid hours to find a job you love? So you've wasted half of your working life getting to this point, doing jobs you didn't enjoy and not getting paid for many of the hours you've done and you think its OK to criticise other peoples work ethics? I'd say you must have "mug" written on your forehead.



I don't recall saying I was doing jobs I didn't enjoy. Just that I didn't particularly love some of my previous jobs. When you mature though, you may realise that you are not actually at work to "enjoy" yourself you are there to work for and serve the company that pay you. I also don't consider that I have wasted half my life to have got to the salaried position I am now in.

Merely pointing out to some of our less experienced and mature readers that what may seem hard now may place you in a good position for your future. If you regard hard work to get somewhere and achieve something in life as being a mug then I feel deeply sorry for you.

Look at Alan Sugar for example, he used to get up at 5am to sell on market stall. Probably put in hundreds of unpaid hours. Was he a mug? If you are happy to work exactly 9-5 not a minute over or 1 minute before you will probably stay where you are forever, for sure no director or manager will respect you, they will just think you're not interested.

If they expect you til that time to cash up then why not ask them if you can start 15/30 mins later, so you can account for the time you're expected to stay? You need to try and manage their expectations, if you get threatened with job loss etc then call ACAS.

I used to get this at the Co-op, kept behind until the manager was ready to leave because there was no security guard and he couldn't be on his own whilst counting up etc, even waited in 90 minutes after closing time on a Sunday to take a delivery, because I was told I had to... It wasn't my job to be security but I did it because I didn't know any better at the time and was pressured into it. All the extra time I did over 3 years was never rewarded, noticed nor did I get time in lieu but it all adds up when you look at it. The staff the manager was friendly with managed to go home on time everytime and get priority shift swaps and were recognised for coming in for a couple of hours on there day off...

Personally I wouldn't keep doing it if I were you. If you only get paid for the time you are supposed to work then it should be time in lieu or extra pay for going beyond. As great as the experience of shop work was, I wouldn't like to be back in that position again.

Musician

I don't recall saying I was doing jobs I didn't enjoy. Just that I didn't … I don't recall saying I was doing jobs I didn't enjoy. Just that I didn't particularly love some of my previous jobs. When you mature though, you may realise that you are not actually at work to "enjoy" yourself you are there to work for and serve the company that pay you. I also don't consider that I have wasted half my life to have got to the salaried position I am now in. Merely pointing out to some of our less experienced and mature readers that what may seem hard now may place you in a good position for your future. If you regard hard work to get somewhere and achieve something in life as being a mug then I feel deeply sorry for you. Look at Alan Sugar for example, he used to get up at 5am to sell on market stall. Probably put in hundreds of unpaid hours. Was he a mug? If you are happy to work exactly 9-5 not a minute over or 1 minute before you will probably stay where you are forever, for sure no director or manager will respect you, they will just think you're not interested.



I agree. You are there to serve the company that PAY you. In turn, you are entitled to be paid for the work you do for them. As somebody pointed out earlier, doing an extra 15 minutes here and there off the clock all adds up and, in my experience, gets you no more than if you work to your set time. It may get you some recognition in a small, close knit, company but in huge multinational companies, all it gets you is more work because you are the mug who will do it for nothing.

There are reasons that companies have clock machines. They can work out to the exact minute how much to pay you. You clock in 30 seconds late, you get a warning. You clock off 30 seconds late, you get nothing. You clock off and continue to work for free? You're a mug.

Edited by: "SJHan" 9th Feb 2015

Musician

I don't recall saying I was doing jobs I didn't enjoy. Just that I didn't … I don't recall saying I was doing jobs I didn't enjoy. Just that I didn't particularly love some of my previous jobs. When you mature though, you may realise that you are not actually at work to "enjoy" yourself you are there to work for and serve the company that pay you. I also don't consider that I have wasted half my life to have got to the salaried position I am now in. Merely pointing out to some of our less experienced and mature readers that what may seem hard now may place you in a good position for your future. If you regard hard work to get somewhere and achieve something in life as being a mug then I feel deeply sorry for you. Look at Alan Sugar for example, he used to get up at 5am to sell on market stall. Probably put in hundreds of unpaid hours. Was he a mug? If you are happy to work exactly 9-5 not a minute over or 1 minute before you will probably stay where you are forever, for sure no director or manager will respect you, they will just think you're not interested.



It is people with your mindset that have brought about the rise in Zero hours contracts and low pay . You are stating that you are happy to work for nothing you are a sucker end off!
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