Found 9th Feb
Car insurance renewal.

Is there a way, anonymously or I should say without contacting current insurer if I have any 3fd party claims against me.

That is if you have a minor bump, 3rd party says they'll push through insurers. However after he checked and garage said no issue found, zero cost, no claim made but he contacted insurers. How do you stand?

Hope this makes sense!

23 Comments

I do think car insurance is a bit of a honey trap. Putting the ownus on the driver to declare everything when the insurance should already have the details. Would make more sense if they automatically added any previous claims or convictions to the quotation instead of playing "guess what we know about you"

Interesting thought, wonder if you can request whatever information the insurance company holds on you. Like freedom of information?

If the other person has reported the claim even for information only and you have exchanged details it will be recorded on CUE ( Claims Underwriting Exchange ) database, plus you are required to notify your own insurer of any incident even if no claim is made. The majority of insurers will check various databases which include CUE and could result in an increased premium plus possible administration fees or cancellation if you don't inform them. The cost of your policy can still increase even if no claim is made or it's a non fault claim.

Mick.007

If the other person has reported the claim even for information only and … If the other person has reported the claim even for information only and you have exchanged details it will be recorded on CUE ( Claims Underwriting Exchange ) database, plus you are required to notify your own insurer of any incident even if no claim is made. The majority of insurers will check various databases which include CUE and could result in an increased premium plus possible administration fees or cancellation if you don't inform them. The cost of your policy can still increase even if no claim is made or it's a non fault claim.



​So if someone hits my Wing mirror and drives off and I report it to the police. you are saying even if I replaced the mirror myself I have to tell my insurance company???

Dawsy

​So if someone hits my Wing mirror and drives off and I report it to the p … ​So if someone hits my Wing mirror and drives off and I report it to the police. you are saying even if I replaced the mirror myself I have to tell my insurance company???


Yes

chocci

Yes



​unfortunately, this is correct, and some insurers will increase your premium because of this as you are now 'statistically at a higher risk of another accident'. and this is why i think car insurance is the biggest scam in the world.

it should be that if you havent cost your insurance company money in paying a claim, you should be no worse off at renewal. but that doesnt seem to be how it works

actually there is no legal obligation to report an accident to anyone unless there is an injury. if there is an injury you have to inform the police.

some insurance companies may tell you that it is the law to tell them. it isn't tho. they lie. how do I know ? I worked for a motor insurance company.

now I'll wait for idiots to come along telling me I am wrong. don't bother unless you can quote a law. don't bother quoting what it says in some insurance company blurb. that isn't a law. it's just what they want you to do.

jonnithomas

actually there is no legal obligation to report an accident to anyone … actually there is no legal obligation to report an accident to anyone unless there is an injury. if there is an injury you have to inform the police.some insurance companies may tell you that it is the law to tell them. it isn't tho. they lie. how do I know ? I worked for a motor insurance company.now I'll wait for idiots to come along telling me I am wrong. don't bother unless you can quote a law. don't bother quoting what it says in some insurance company blurb. that isn't a law. it's just what they want you to do.


Legalities aside, if you make a claim and they discover you had an undeclared accident, do you think they are going to pay out?

chocci

Legalities aside, if you make a claim and they discover you had an … Legalities aside, if you make a claim and they discover you had an undeclared accident, do you think they are going to pay out?



Yes. They might reduce the payout by the amount that your premium would have gone up, but they should still pay.
The issue would be if you've withheld details of something that would have meant that they wouldnt have quoted you. Then they'll pay the 3rd party but might come after you for all their costs.

mas99

Yes. They might reduce the payout by the amount that your premium would … Yes. They might reduce the payout by the amount that your premium would have gone up, but they should still pay.The issue would be if you've withheld details of something that would have meant that they wouldnt have quoted you. Then they'll pay the 3rd party but might come after you for all their costs.


Sorry but I dont believe that at all. It makes no sense whatsoever. If they reduced any subsequent claim payout by whatever premium increase should have applied for any previous claims, then no-one would declare previous claims when going to a new insurer.

Think about it.

chocci

Sorry but I dont believe that at all. It makes no sense whatsoever. If … Sorry but I dont believe that at all. It makes no sense whatsoever. If they reduced any subsequent claim payout by whatever premium increase should have applied for any previous claims, then no-one would declare previous claims when going to a new insurer. Think about it.



Don't need to. I spent years writing software for banks and insurers.

jonnithomas

actually there is no legal obligation to report an accident to anyone … actually there is no legal obligation to report an accident to anyone unless there is an injury. if there is an injury you have to inform the police.some insurance companies may tell you that it is the law to tell them. it isn't tho. they lie. how do I know ? I worked for a motor insurance company.now I'll wait for idiots to come along telling me I am wrong. don't bother unless you can quote a law. don't bother quoting what it says in some insurance company blurb. that isn't a law. it's just what they want you to do.



Most insurance companies don't say it's a legal requirement though , just a condition of the policy you have signed up to

mas99

Don't need to. I spent years writing software for banks and insurers.


So did I but that didn't make me a claims specialist. There is no way insurers would pay out if they discovered undeclared claims. It would be a breach of contract. They would probably refund the premium at best.
Edited by: "chocci" 10th Feb

chocci

So did I but that didn't make me a claims specialist. There is no way … So did I but that didn't make me a claims specialist. There is no way insurers would pay out if they discovered undeclared claims. It would be a breach of contract. They would probably refund the premium at best.



They have undeclared claims and points all the time.
Sometimes deliberate, but often accidental because people really do forget about a tiny bump 3 years ago or the fixed penalty sp30. The insurer will always cover the 3rd party and will usually give cover to the policyholder, unless its blatant fraud or as I said outside their cover profile.
They may cancel a policy though which is an issue for the policyholder.

Did you never talk to the managers when you were doing development?

Edited by: "mas99" 10th Feb

jonnithomas

actually there is no legal obligation to report an accident to anyone … actually there is no legal obligation to report an accident to anyone unless there is an injury. if there is an injury you have to inform the police.some insurance companies may tell you that it is the law to tell them. it isn't tho. they lie. how do I know ? I worked for a motor insurance company.now I'll wait for idiots to come along telling me I am wrong. don't bother unless you can quote a law. don't bother quoting what it says in some insurance company blurb. that isn't a law. it's just what they want you to do.



​it might not be illegal but it is a requirement of the policy they offer you, so if you dont declare you might aswell just drive around un-insured for all the good it will do you.

chocci

So did I but that didn't make me a claims specialist. There is no way … So did I but that didn't make me a claims specialist. There is no way insurers would pay out if they discovered undeclared claims. It would be a breach of contract. They would probably refund the premium at best.




sorry but you are wrong. try reading....Consumer Insurance (Representation and Disclosure) Act 2012

or from the Financial Services Ombudsman....
'So if the insurer would have accepted the risk but charged the consumer a higher premium, we usually say that the insurer should consider the claim. If the claim is valid, the insurer should pay it in proportion to the premium that was actually paid. For example, if the consumer had been paying half the premium they should have, then we will say the consumer should get half the settlement if the claim is accepted.

However, if the insurer decides to charge the additional premium and settle the claim in full instead of settling the claim proportionately, we may also decide this is fair - provided the insurer deducts the additional premium from the claim settlement and does not put the consumer in a worse position than they would be in with a proportionate settlement.

Where the consumer hasn't made a claim and the misrepresentation was discovered for some other reason, we generally say it is fair for the insurer to charge an additional premium.

If we think it is likely the insurer would have applied different terms to the policy if it had been given correct information, we may decide that it is reasonable for these to apply retrospectively. In some cases, this will mean that the consumer's claim is no longer covered.

If we think it is likely the insurer would not have offered any cover if it had been given correct information, we may say that it can avoid the policy and not pay any claim(s) made under it. But before we do, we will look very carefully at whether the consumer failed to take reasonable care.

If we decide the consumer did take reasonable care and so it was not fair for the insurer to have avoided the policy, we are likely to say that it should treat the policy as if it was in force and assess the claim - subject to the policy terms and conditions.'

nobody is suggesting not stating when a claim has taken place. that will be on the database anyway. it's when the insured had a prang and paid for it in cash. no record and no reason to say there was one. just argue it wasn't declared as there wasn't an accident claim. all claims should, of course, be declared. the insured was acting reasonably as they misunderstood the question asked about accidents.

similarly the insurance company will ask have there ever been any convictions. By law you only have to declare it if within the last six years unless the penalty was for 3 years or more imprisonment. then I cannot remember how long it is. insurance companies know this is covered by the statute of limitations but ask anyway.

adamspencer95

​it might not be illegal but it is a requirement of the policy they offer … ​it might not be illegal but it is a requirement of the policy they offer you, so if you dont declare you might aswell just drive around un-insured for all the good it will do you.




not true. see #17.

that's the law

jonnithomas

not true. see #17.that's the law



​the law doesnt say the insurer has to pay out if you lied on your insurance proposal. the link you quoted says ..'assess the claim - subject to the policy terms and conditions.'

within those terms and conditions, there will be a clause stating that providing false information will invalidate your policy and can be used to refuse a claim. i know it wont always, but they can and no law can override that as the proposer was not acting with Uberrimae Fidei (upmost good faith) which is the law underpinning the insurance industry. if the insurer can show the proposer was not acting with upmost faith, being truthful and honest, they will be well within their rights to reject any claim and/or cancel the policy. so when the proposer is asked 'have you had any accidents'.. blah blah.. and they knowingly lie and say 'no', there is your lack of Uberrimae Fidei.

adamspencer95

​the law doesnt say the insurer has to pay out if you lied on your i … ​the law doesnt say the insurer has to pay out if you lied on your insurance proposal. the link you quoted says ..'assess the claim - subject to the policy terms and conditions.'within those terms and conditions, there will be a clause stating that providing false information will invalidate your policy and can be used to refuse a claim. i know it wont always, but they can and no law can override that as the proposer was not acting with Uberrimae Fidei (upmost good faith) which is the law underpinning the insurance industry. if the insurer can show the proposer was not acting with upmost faith, being truthful and honest, they will be well within their rights to reject any claim and/or cancel the policy. so when the proposer is asked 'have you had any accidents'.. blah blah.. and they knowingly lie and say 'no', there is your lack of Uberrimae Fidei.




so you think those insured will actually admit to telling porkies on their application ?

all they need to say is 'oh, I thought that was accident claims, it wasn't a claim as I paid for it'.. people do it all the time. if you don't want to then tell them. I know many people who hit their garden wall or ran over little johnnies bike etc etc.... do you think they report it as an accident ? I can assure you that they don't.

it's like you often get a lower quote if you say your wife drives the car. it doesn't matter if she never does, it's cheaper to say it.


Edited by: "jonnithomas" 10th Feb

jonnithomas

so you think those insured will actually admit to telling porkies on … so you think those insured will actually admit to telling porkies on their application ? all they need to say is 'oh, I thought that was accident claims, it wasn't a claim as I paid for it'.. people do it all the time. if you don't want to then tell them. I know many people who hit their garden wall or ran over little johnnies bike etc etc.... do you think they report it as an accident ? I can assure you that they don't.it's like you often get a lower quote if you say your wife drives the car. it doesn't matter if she never does, it's cheaper to say it.



​so from your logic, next time i get an insurance quote, i'll claim to be a 68 year old woman living in the middle of wales with 50 years NCD, but as long as i 'play dumb' when questioned nothing will be done?

you dont need an admission from the proposer of knowingly declaring it incorrectly. it would be dealt with in a civil court, so it would be based on the balance of probabilities, so that would be extremely difficult to defend you 'didnt know you had to declare an accident'. the wording on insurance quotations is designed to be idiotproof, and is very clear about what you must declare.

additional drivers doesnt infer any dishonesty, it just means other people are insured to drive the car as and when required. you dont have to indicate how often named drivers will use the car (for most policies, anyway) so as long as the main driver is appropiate then this is not related in any way.

i admit there is a grey area when no third party is involved such as the examples you state, but for any accident it is very clear. you must declare any potentially insurable event which occurs

adamspencer95

​so from your logic, next time i get an insurance quote, i'll claim to be … ​so from your logic, next time i get an insurance quote, i'll claim to be a 68 year old woman living in the middle of wales with 50 years NCD, but as long as i 'play dumb' when questioned nothing will be done?you dont need an admission from the proposer of knowingly declaring it incorrectly. it would be dealt with in a civil court, so it would be based on the balance of probabilities, so that would be extremely difficult to defend you 'didnt know you had to declare an accident'. the wording on insurance quotations is designed to be idiotproof, and is very clear about what you must declare.additional drivers doesnt infer any dishonesty, it just means other people are insured to drive the car as and when required. you dont have to indicate how often named drivers will use the car (for most policies, anyway) so as long as the main driver is appropiate then this is not related in any way. i admit there is a grey area when no third party is involved such as the examples you state, but for any accident it is very clear. you must declare any potentially insurable event which occurs




no, it wouldn't be dealt with in a civil court at all. no law would have been broken.

it would, if it came up, be dealt with by the ombudsman and I have already quoted him above.

however, you are arguing for the sake of it. I am arguing from professional experience. I worked for a motor insurance company in their claims department until recently. consequently I am talking about observed real life cases and training on this type of issue.

so , no, you cannot say that you are a 73 year old nun with 50 years NCB (unless you are) but can just not mention accidents if there is no injury and no claim. people do it all the time. the only issue is if the other driver (if there is one) reports it themselves.

however, there is no law broken and it is not like your suggestion of 'if you dont declare you might as well just drive around un-insured for all the good it will do you.' that is simply factually round objects.

Original Poster

Thanks for the feedback people...

Its seems a be of nightmare, but I'll use this URL

118luke

This may help … This may help youhttps://www.mib.org.uk/managing-insurance-data/the-motor-insurance-database-mid/public-access/



as you can request a DSAR to get a list of details about yourself held on the insurance database for a small fee £10
Edited by: "rap451" 21st Feb
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