CCTV Advice

34
Posted 22nd May
Evening hdukers
I’m after a bit of advice on CCTV if anyone is able to help please.
We are looking to have a camera front and rear of house installed, mainly to act as a slight deterrent and also to keep a cursory eye on things.
A friend we use has quoted us £1,250 for 2 Hikvision cameras, 6tb NVR, cabling, app connectivity etc

Mrs AngelBomber feel this is a bit steep for what we need, and wonders whether we’d be better off with a couple of Ring Spotlight cameras.

Is anybody able to offer any advice please?

Thank you
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Depends if you want 24/7 recording or not. I have the same setup as you need, one camera up high covering front garden and the same at the rear. Both were £80 Kasa TpLink ones from amazon and record on movement and we get the app notifications as and when people/animals enter the area.

Fantastic quality at night and during the day as well. Obviously from above you’ll never see a face but it’s interesting to see what goes on.

£1250 seems extremely pricey in my opinion.
Very overpriced IMO
ArcadeAssassin22/05/2020 19:45

Depends if you want 24/7 recording or not. I have the same setup as you …Depends if you want 24/7 recording or not. I have the same setup as you need, one camera up high covering front garden and the same at the rear. Both were £80 Kasa TpLink ones from amazon and record on movement and we get the app notifications as and when people/animals enter the area. Fantastic quality at night and during the day as well. Obviously from above you’ll never see a face but it’s interesting to see what goes on. £1250 seems extremely pricey in my opinion.


Thank you, that’s helpful. I imagine the quality he’s suggesting is great but a bit overkill for my needs.
Got 3 Hikvision cameras installed approx 3 months ago, £400 or so which included all the cameras, NVR, cabling, powerline adapters etc and the installer did a decent job. If you want a 6TB backup you’d be better off buying a separate hard drive and swapping it yourself as I’m sure the installer would add a fair bit of markup. Though 1TB lasts me approx 3-4 weeks on 24x7 recording. 6TB I feel would be fairly excessive for 2 cameras.

I’d get someone to comparatively quote.
Edited by: "matthewemmer" 22nd May
Just remember to position them so they point inwardly and not towards a public place.
matthewemmer22/05/2020 20:22

Got 3 Hikvision cameras installed approx 3 months ago, £400 or so which …Got 3 Hikvision cameras installed approx 3 months ago, £400 or so which included all the cameras, NVR, cabling, powerline adapters etc and the installer did a decent job. If you want a 6TB backup you’d be better off buying a separate hard drive and swapping it yourself as I’m sure the installer would add a fair bit of markup. Though 1TB lasts me approx a month and a half or so 24x7 recording. 6TB I feel would be fairly excessive for 2 cameras.I’d get someone to comparatively quote.


What megapixel cameras are they?
Sam22322/05/2020 20:37

What megapixel cameras are they?



I’d have to check to be certain but I believe off the top of my head they’re 4MP, which is 1080P equivalent? Which is sufficient quality for my usage. The same installer offered 8MP “4K” hikvision cameras for £800. Though both prices seemed fair for 3 cameras.
matthewemmer22/05/2020 20:42

I’d have to check to be certain but I believe off the top of my head t …I’d have to check to be certain but I believe off the top of my head they’re 4MP, which is 1080P equivalent? Which is sufficient quality for my usage. The same installer offered 8MP “4K” hikvision cameras for £800. Though both prices seemed fair for 3 cameras.


Sounds a great price. One more q- Do the cameras run off 1 or 2 cables attached?
Sam22322/05/2020 20:47

Sounds a great price. One more q- Do the cameras run off 1 or 2 cables …Sounds a great price. One more q- Do the cameras run off 1 or 2 cables attached?



Just looked back, they’re actually 5MP (much to my surprise) - two cables. He noted the 8MP ones are using Ethernet POE and not analogue BNC & separate power from the NVR.
Edited by: "matthewemmer" 22nd May
tardytortoise22/05/2020 20:31

Just remember to position them so they point inwardly and not towards a …Just remember to position them so they point inwardly and not towards a public place.


CCTV operator can point the camera(s) wherever chosen but if capturing images beyond own boundary then a domestic user is simply classed as a data controller with all the obligations that entails.
ico.org.uk/you…tv/
matthewemmer22/05/2020 20:22

Got 3 Hikvision cameras installed approx 3 months ago, £400 or so which …Got 3 Hikvision cameras installed approx 3 months ago, £400 or so which included all the cameras, NVR, cabling, powerline adapters etc and the installer did a decent job. If you want a 6TB backup you’d be better off buying a separate hard drive and swapping it yourself as I’m sure the installer would add a fair bit of markup. Though 1TB lasts me approx a month and a half or so 24x7 recording. 6TB I feel would be fairly excessive for 2 cameras.I’d get someone to comparatively quote.


That's recording everything or just saving anything that triggered recording from movement within the frame?
PenguinsForAll22/05/2020 21:51

That's recording everything or just saving anything that triggered …That's recording everything or just saving anything that triggered recording from movement within the frame?


24x7 recording, I think it is possible to do motion alerts or motion based recording but I’ve never found anything motion related to be reliable in the past, would rather have a full copy of footage than potentially missing something.
Well overpriced!!
matthewemmer22/05/2020 20:54

Just looked back, they’re actually 5MP (much to my surprise) - two cables. …Just looked back, they’re actually 5MP (much to my surprise) - two cables. He noted the 8MP ones are using Ethernet POE and not analogue BNC & separate power from the NVR.


Not sure how that works, I have 3 hikvision cameras 4mbp and I only get 3 weeks recording on 2tb nvr
matthewemmer22/05/2020 20:22

Got 3 Hikvision cameras installed approx 3 months ago, £400 or so which …Got 3 Hikvision cameras installed approx 3 months ago, £400 or so which included all the cameras, NVR, cabling, powerline adapters etc and the installer did a decent job. If you want a 6TB backup you’d be better off buying a separate hard drive and swapping it yourself as I’m sure the installer would add a fair bit of markup. Though 1TB lasts me approx a month and a half or so 24x7 recording. 6TB I feel would be fairly excessive for 2 cameras.I’d get someone to comparatively quote.


Your right about the drive markups by the installer when I asked for much difference between 1 and 2 tb I knew the difference on amazon was £20 and he said £70. He lost the job then and I did job myself
snoopy1822/05/2020 22:48

Not sure how that works, I have 3 hikvision cameras 4mbp and I only get 3 …Not sure how that works, I have 3 hikvision cameras 4mbp and I only get 3 weeks recording on 2tb nvr



Just checked mine, amended my original as I was a tad overoptimistic but it does appear from 1TB I do get a good 3 1/2 weeks from all 3 by looks of it which is a bit odd like you say, unless it’s dependent on the amount of activity which dictates the size of the file? Though as OP only has 2 I’d expect they’d achieve over a month with ease.
£1250 is a stupid amount of money!! I got a hikvision DVR and 4 cameras for £3-400 I think and installed it myself, but maybe someone will install it for the same price?

Don’t pay more than £800
matthewemmer22/05/2020 22:57

Just checked mine, amended my original as I was a tad overoptimistic but …Just checked mine, amended my original as I was a tad overoptimistic but it does appear from 1TB I do get a good 3 1/2 weeks from all 3 by looks of it which is a bit odd like you say, unless it’s dependent on the amount of activity which dictates the size of the file? Though as OP only has 2 I’d expect they’d achieve over a month with ease.


There is a setting on mine for clear which I believe is the best and then fluent so that would alter the file size
What did you amend?
Edited by: "snoopy18" 22nd May
AndyRoyd22/05/2020 21:09

CCTV operator can point the camera(s) wherever chosen but if capturing …CCTV operator can point the camera(s) wherever chosen but if capturing images beyond own boundary then a domestic user is simply classed as a data controller with all the obligations that entails.https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/domestic-cctv-systems-guidance-for-people-using-cctv/



Obligations which need thinking about a great deal before embarking on such a project. A good vendor would point all these out.
AngelBomber22/05/2020 20:20

...mainly to act as a slight deterrent and also to keep a cursory eye on …...mainly to act as a slight deterrent and also to keep a cursory eye on things. ..wonders whether we’d be better off with a couple of Ring Spotlight cameras.


£1250 for a two-cam system is the wrong side of sane, and if "act as slight deterrent" is literal then even £400 plus fitting for two Ring Spotlight cams is extravagant.
A real visible deterrent can be achived with almost any camera, and real functionality of PIR-triggered recording with remote access and ONVIF compatibility can be achieved at under £80/pair plus fitting including onboard storage, optional cloud and / or NVR.

Usually wise to only consider PIR (heat) based detection methods to trigger event recordings for external cams otherwise rain / snow / leaves / shadows / waving tree branches will drive you demented either from false detection alerts or when trawling through recordings' history looking for real events.
Obviously if you want to record cold bricks miraculously self-throwing themselves through your windows you will have to tolerate other cruder old skool methods of movement-triggered recording based on comparison of frame images.

Random example cam circa £33 each fulfilled by Amazon plus your choice of microSD for storage amazon.co.uk/dp/…RT/ should easily satisfy initial and expandable cursory expectations and nail the slight deterrent box.
tardytortoise22/05/2020 23:41

Obligations which need thinking about a great deal before embarking on …Obligations which need thinking about a great deal before embarking on such a project. A good vendor would point all these out.


Get real, Joe Public doesn't think in rational terms, otherwise JP would never buy cars without 70mph speed limiters etc.
ICO will need some high profile prosecutions before Joe Public will take data controller obligations seriously because unlike speeding offences, JP probably doesn't know one single person that's been shafted by ICO for a CCTV violation.
That is insanely expensive. However it can be justified depending on the way of installation. I have seen silly installations where people have dangling cables which could easily be cut by any intelligent intruders. Consider carrying out the installation yourself, it really isn't difficult. Side tip, guttering is one of the best places to discreetly hide cabling.
AndyRoyd22/05/2020 23:53

£1250 for a two-cam system is the wrong side of sane, and if "act as …£1250 for a two-cam system is the wrong side of sane, and if "act as slight deterrent" is literal then even £400 plus fitting for two Ring Spotlight cams is extravagant.A real visible deterrent can be achived with almost any camera, and real functionality of PIR-triggered recording with remote access and ONVIF compatibility can be achieved at under £80/pair plus fitting including onboard storage, optional cloud and / or NVR.Usually wise to only consider PIR (heat) based detection methods to trigger event recordings for external cams otherwise rain / snow / leaves / shadows / waving tree branches will drive you demented either from false detection alerts or when trawling through recordings' history looking for real events.Obviously if you want to record cold bricks miraculously self-throwing themselves through your windows you will have to tolerate other cruder old skool methods of movement-triggered recording based on comparison of frame images.Random example cam circa £33 each fulfilled by Amazon plus your choice of microSD for storage https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07VRT1VRT/ should easily satisfy initial and expandable cursory expectations and nail the slight deterrent box.


Thank you, this is helpful.
AndyRoyd23/05/2020 00:01

Get real, Joe Public doesn't think in rational terms, otherwise JP would …Get real, Joe Public doesn't think in rational terms, otherwise JP would never buy cars without 70mph speed limiters etc. ICO will need some high profile prosecutions before Joe Public will take data controller obligations seriously because unlike speeding offences, JP probably doesn't know one single person that's been shafted by ICO for a CCTV violation.



I was merely pointing out the considerations to be made before embarking on a potentially expensive project that may not in the end achieve its aims.
As you know, ignorance is not a defence in law.
I am not Joe Public. I suppose a former occupation of over 6 years exposed me more to these issues than JP.
When the police call for CCTV assistance to help them solve crimes, quite often they have to reject the actual footage as it would not be admissible in court - of course it can still give them leads to pursue.
I know of one resident who had their cameras so positioned they could see right across the street into a neighbours bedroom. All perfectly innocent, but the camera could be positioned in no other way to survey his property without this adverse side effect. He was advised about this. He was damned annoyed with the people who sold him the setup, he managed to get his money back and bought a guard dog.
All I am trying to do with these posts is to alert the OP to some potential pitfall. And to consider other possible solutions. ASAIK there are no similar issues with dummy cameras.
tardytortoise23/05/2020 08:47

I know of one resident who had their cameras so positioned they could see …I know of one resident who had their cameras so positioned they could see right across the street into a neighbours bedroom. All perfectly innocent, but the camera could be positioned in no other way to survey his property without this adverse side effect. He was advised about this. He was damned annoyed with the people who sold him the setup, he managed to get his money back and bought a guard dog.


Why was he so annoyed?
my setup cost about £500 got a couple of Reolink RLC-520-5MP currentlly £79 on amazon.....these camera's are POE (Power Over Ethernet) so one ethernet cable for both power and data needs to be run. Because of this you need a POE switch i use a TP-Link TL-SF1005P 5-Port 10/100 Mbps Ethernet PoE Switch which is £28 on amazon. You can leave it there and use a SD card in each camera to record footage....i use a QNAP NAS (TS-128A-US) and network it to record the footage with a WD Red NAS HDD .....there are alot of products out there i had a swann set of camera but too much hastle and hard to set up40844885-kp3tN.jpg40844885-cZVX5.jpg40844885-Isve6.jpg
Edited by: "davekitchen4100" 23rd May
Sam22323/05/2020 08:56

Why was he so annoyed?



cos he had paid a lot of money for something which in effect was unusable on his property
tardytortoise23/05/2020 09:27

cos he had paid a lot of money for something which in effect was unusable …cos he had paid a lot of money for something which in effect was unusable on his property


Thought you said it was covering his property but also neighbouring as a side effect. Is it unusable in court if the video includes your neighbour’s property?
Sam22323/05/2020 10:11

Thought you said it was covering his property but also neighbouring as a …Thought you said it was covering his property but also neighbouring as a side effect. Is it unusable in court if the video includes your neighbour’s property?



Read the regulations for yourself that AndyRoyd linked in this thread ^^.
In simple terms if you take CCTV pictures of people beyond your property, intentional or otherwise, you need to obey the regulations or accept the risk of ICO taking action against you.
snoopy1822/05/2020 23:18

There is a setting on mine for clear which I believe is the best and then …There is a setting on mine for clear which I believe is the best and then fluent so that would alter the file sizeWhat did you amend?



Those setting are just for viewing, the recording settings etc are in the DVR/NVR.

Crazy over priced that, shop about and ask friends for recommends, also be wary of prices that seem too good to be true.
Sam22323/05/2020 08:56

Why was he so annoyed?


He asked for his money back 3 years later after studying footage decided they were no good
tardytortoise23/05/2020 11:34

Read the regulations for yourself that AndyRoyd linked in this thread …Read the regulations for yourself that AndyRoyd linked in this thread ^^.In simple terms if you take CCTV pictures of people beyond your property, intentional or otherwise, you need to obey the regulations or accept the risk of ICO taking action against you.


Police were happy to view my footage and they can see across the road.
Its obvious that if they go straight into someone bedroom then that’s not set up right and people will complain
snoopy1823/05/2020 12:10

Police were happy to view my footage and they can see across the road. Its …Police were happy to view my footage and they can see across the road. Its obvious that if they go straight into someone bedroom then that’s not set up right and people will complain



Let me quote from the regulations
"If your CCTV captures images beyond your property boundary, such as your neighbours’ property or public streets and footpaths, then your use of the system is subject to the data protection laws.

This does not mean you are breaking the law. But it does mean that, as the CCTV user, you are a data controller. So you will need to comply with your legal obligations under the data protection laws.

You can still capture images, but you need to show you are doing it in ways that comply with the data protection laws and uphold the rights of the people whose images you are capturing."

AFAIK it is not the police who are the investigation authority; it is the ICO themselves. The police are very unlikely to inform the ICO if you are not complying fully with the regulations or data protection laws - they have much bigger fish to fry.

All I have been trying to say is that fitting CCTV is easy - it is the regulation compliance thing that has also to be done. For some, that also will be easy, for others not so easy.
If you want nightvision, the video below shows why HikVision are best, but obviously thats what you are paying for. However, they tend to not be during the day when zoomed in

youtube.com/wat…3NY
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