Changing a light fitting....

49
Posted 23rd Jun 2020
3491616.jpgright!!! I've been changing this light fitting to one exactly the same looking but newer and it's just not working!!

it seems so simple, all reds in the middle, one black to the right and two blacks into the left.

it's the upstairs hallway light, set it all up and it doesn't work and then the downstairs hallway light doesn't work too now? guessing it's cos they are on the same connectors.

so I think the only thing I could have done wrong is the black wire, so I've tried all three black wires into the solo spot and it's still not working!

have I just messed it all up by changing them around or something?

what else can I try ?
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chrisredmayne23/06/2020 08:17

I know how to change them, I've done them in other rooms. This one just …I know how to change them, I've done them in other rooms. This one just didn't work for some reason!Isn't a qualified electrician just going to have to try each black right combination anyways like I have been doing ?Ah just watched that video I think my partner's dad has one of those boxes I'll ask him about itJust checking though, putting the wrong one in wouldn't have messed it all up right ? Nothing blew up and the electricity is still going on, other lights still working


A qualified electrician will absolutely have the equipment to test the wiring and importantly, the knowledge to rewire it all correctly. Electric is not to be messed with, otherwise you could potentially create a fire hazard at home
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I’m going to assume you didn’t keep the wires in order when you removed them? That being the case it’ll be tricky to now get them in the correct order.

This video shows how to change the ceiling rose...



...my guess is you’ll now need a spark in to fix the mix up. I’d doubt you can do it yourself without the right equipment and knowledge.

EDIT - this video shows how to identify which wire is which, however you’d need to have the correct equipment to do it. As I said, I’d recommend getting a qualified electrician in...


Edited by: "Diggsy" 23rd Jun
Diggsy23/06/2020 08:08

I’m going to assume you didn’t keep the wires in order when you removed the …I’m going to assume you didn’t keep the wires in order when you removed them? That being the case it’ll be tricky to now get them in the correct order.This video shows how to change the ceiling rose...[Video] ...my guess is you’ll now need a spark in to fix the mix up. I’d doubt you can do it yourself without the right equipment and knowledge.EDIT - this video shows how to identify which wire is which, however you’d need to have the correct equipment to do it. As I said, I’d recommend getting a qualified electrician in...[Video]


I know how to change them, I've done them in other rooms. This one just didn't work for some reason!

Isn't a qualified electrician just going to have to try each black right combination anyways like I have been doing ?

Ah just watched that video I think my partner's dad has one of those boxes I'll ask him about it

Just checking though, putting the wrong one in wouldn't have messed it all up right ? Nothing blew up and the electricity is still going on, other lights still working
Edited by: "chrisredmayne" 23rd Jun
chrisredmayne23/06/2020 08:17

I know how to change them, I've done them in other rooms. This one just …I know how to change them, I've done them in other rooms. This one just didn't work for some reason!Isn't a qualified electrician just going to have to try each black right combination anyways like I have been doing ?Ah just watched that video I think my partner's dad has one of those boxes I'll ask him about itJust checking though, putting the wrong one in wouldn't have messed it all up right ? Nothing blew up and the electricity is still going on, other lights still working


A qualified electrician will absolutely have the equipment to test the wiring and importantly, the knowledge to rewire it all correctly. Electric is not to be messed with, otherwise you could potentially create a fire hazard at home
Is it dirt at the red wire on the right of the 3 wire or is it burn marks if it’s burn marks that means it may have arced which means the screw is not tight enough
Scotland131423/06/2020 08:23

Is it dirt at the red wire on the right of the 3 wire or is it burn marks …Is it dirt at the red wire on the right of the 3 wire or is it burn marks if it’s burn marks that means it may have arced which means the screw is not tight enough


It was really dusty, the light was working before when it was like that so don't think that would be an issue ?
Diggsy23/06/2020 08:21

A qualified electrician will absolutely have the equipment to test the …A qualified electrician will absolutely have the equipment to test the wiring and importantly, the knowledge to rewire it all correctly. Electric is not to be messed with, otherwise you could potentially create a fire hazard at home


People change light fittings all the time without electricians ? It shouldn't be hard it's just swapping a few wires around. As I say did another one just last week

Ah well, normally get family in to help! Maybe since covid is going away I can do again soon
One other thing I’m looking at is that you have black wires at both sides of the rose. Assuming your blacks are neutral, then they should only be on one side (the side serving the blue wire). Your other side should have a red (live) wire, which should be the switched one.

As I’ve said though, please don’t mess with it if you’re not certain. Simply not work the risk.
One red will feed light switch and comes back to fitting. Should have a red sleeve on a black wire to indicate this but often not. So one of those black cables is the return wire from switch that is black but in an idea world should be red as live not neutral. Don't kill yourself but easy enough to identify the live switch wire. One will come on and off with switch. If you attach the switch wire to the neutral which you have done, when you switch on bang. You've blown fuse or burner out something. Never mix the black wires. 2 will be neutral and one will be a live return from switch.
Edited by: "wayners" 23rd Jun
wayners23/06/2020 08:27

One red will feed light switch and comes back to fitting. Should have a …One red will feed light switch and comes back to fitting. Should have a red sleeve on to indicate this but often not. So one of those black cables is the return wire from switch that is black but in an idea world should be red as live not neutral. Don't kill yourself but easy enough to identify the live switch wire


That’s the other thing to watch for OP, if it wasn’t wired correctly in the first place, there’s no guarantee that wire colouring means anything...
should have taken photo before you started!
leitchyleck23/06/2020 08:30

should have taken photo before you started!


That is the photo before I started....
well put them back n get a sparky!
Edited by: "leitchyleck" 23rd Jun
Diggsy23/06/2020 08:31

Have you a photo of it now?


It's just exactly the same, I've copied it over. That's why I'm saying the only thing that could be different is the placement of the black wires.

So either keep changing them around until it's right? Only three options...

Or get one of those tools...

But I have already tried each combination so probably the tool or an electrician / family member with the tool is best
chrisredmayne23/06/2020 08:26

People change light fittings all the time without electricians ? It …People change light fittings all the time without electricians ? It shouldn't be hard it's just swapping a few wires around. As I say did another one just last week Ah well, normally get family in to help! Maybe since covid is going away I can do again soon


People sometimes burn their houses down and electrocute themselves too...
Diggsy23/06/2020 08:33

People sometimes burn their houses down and electrocute themselves too...


I managed to switch the electric off before doing it...
chrisredmayne23/06/2020 08:33

It's just exactly the same, I've copied it over. That's why I'm saying …It's just exactly the same, I've copied it over. That's why I'm saying the only thing that could be different is the placement of the black wires. So either keep changing them around until it's right? Only three options...Or get one of those tools...But I have already tried each combination so probably the tool or an electrician / family member with the tool is best


Please DON’T keep swapping wires around trying it. This is a really bad idea
Diggsy23/06/2020 08:34

Please DON’T keep swapping wires around trying it. This is a really bad i …Please DON’T keep swapping wires around trying it. This is a really bad idea


How so ? It'll just trip the electricity if it's wrong surely
Daft question but You have switched the circuit back on right?? Does it stop tripping the fuse when you remove the fitting?
Sc4mp023/06/2020 08:37

Daft question but You have switched the circuit back on right?? Does it …Daft question but You have switched the circuit back on right?? Does it stop tripping the fuse when you remove the fitting?


Yeah, turned it back on and the other lights in the house work fine. It doesn't even trip the electricity when I try the switch for this one
chrisredmayne23/06/2020 08:36

How so ? It'll just trip the electricity if it's wrong surely


It will if correctly connected to the board etc...problem is you’ve no idea unless you know how it was wired in the first place. I just wouldn’t risk it
If you pull all 3 Blacks out and leave in mid air. Turn on power. When you flick switch one of the black wires will come live and off with switch. That's the switch wire that on it's own. God I'm going to get slatted for this advice but that's how it's done. You need tester to see Which is live. Also neutral wires can give a glow to those naff testing screwdriver's which throws people. Your not looking for a glow. You want a bright light in tester. Fgs. Don't kill yourself.
Edited by: "wayners" 23rd Jun
Diggsy23/06/2020 08:41

It will if correctly connected to the board etc...problem is you’ve no i …It will if correctly connected to the board etc...problem is you’ve no idea unless you know how it was wired in the first place. I just wouldn’t risk it


Okay, thanks for your concern. I'll probably get some help tbh since I've tried all the ways I think it could work and it's still not going on. Just frustrating as it should be so simple
chrisredmayne23/06/2020 08:42

Okay, thanks for your concern. I'll probably get some help tbh since I've …Okay, thanks for your concern. I'll probably get some help tbh since I've tried all the ways I think it could work and it's still not going on. Just frustrating as it should be so simple


Certainly frustrating, I get that. You’re doing the right thing though getting someone to sort it for you. Always better to err on the side of caution...
Edited by: "Diggsy" 23rd Jun
wayners23/06/2020 08:42

If you pull all 3 Blacks out and leave in mid air. Turn on power. When you …If you pull all 3 Blacks out and leave in mid air. Turn on power. When you flick switch one of the black wires will come live and off with switch. That's the switch wire that on it's own. God I'm going to get slatted for this advice but that's how it's done. You need tester to see Which is live. Also neutral wires can give a glow to those naff testing screwdriver's which throws people. Your not looking for a glow. You want a bright light in tester. Fgs. Don't kill yourself.


I think someone in my family might have one of the tools in the video tbh as he does electric work. Think I'd best leave that stuff alone ha
Yeah. It's common because people think all black wires are neutral. It's just that a switch is just straight through so the red feed uses the other side (black cable) as a return. Do some damage random fixing as shorting out. Sensible to get someone to sort..
Edited by: "wayners" 23rd Jun
Perfectly legal to do this yourself. Doesn't mean you should if you don't know what you're doing though. You just need a multimeter and a helpful assistant to save you getting up and down the ladder.
Your three reds is a loop wiring which 2 will connect to to the switch both live, one of the reds will be permanent live in, the 2 blacks look like neutral one permanent in and one permanent out
Just had a proper look at the photo and it looks like you have 2 switched live black cables but I guess what has been done is that the neutrals and switched lives have just been wired on the wrong side of the fitting, it would still work, just don't understand why you'd do it that way around as you've had to stick 2 cables in one hole??
Hallsie23/06/2020 11:38

Just had a proper look at the photo and it looks like you have 2 switched …Just had a proper look at the photo and it looks like you have 2 switched live black cables but I guess what has been done is that the neutrals and switched lives have just been wired on the wrong side of the fitting, it would still work, just don't understand why you'd do it that way around as you've had to stick 2 cables in one hole??


That is odd isn't it, looking at the other one I fitted the other week they did it the other way round! Maybe if was just fitted badly in the first place and trying to replicate it is making it worse ha
Blue wire looks dodgy af, it looks like it disappears for a bit.
I don't have anything to contribute but I just want to send a bit of positivity your way.

My partner is a 'glass 1/2 empty' person. No task is met without the standard 'this is impossible' statement accompanied by constant moaning, groaning and cursing. To combat that negativity I have to pretend I'm super confident even if I'm not feeling it one bit, and it works. We always manage to get all those 'impossible' tasks done. Mind over matter

You seem to know what you're doing, stay positive, watch a few YouTube videos and I'm quite sure you'll figure it out. Good luck
No one has suggested it yet but perhaps the "new" switch is faulty? You may have done it all correctly but it just doesn't work? Or is it not a "new" switch - just another one (but nicer) than the old one - and you know it worked where it was situated last?

If you were/are confident in your wiring, perhaps try yet another; if you have one; to see if that works ok?

Please be careful though. Make sure you are not on your own at any time whilst doing this work. Safety first, eh?

Regards, Phsy.
Could the NEW light fitting be faulty?
Thats why I suggested the need for a multimeter and a helpful assistant to save getting up and down ladder
Diggsy23/06/2020 08:33

People sometimes burn their houses down and electrocute themselves too...



Ive had plenty of 240v shocks none have really hurt me except when I jumped up and hit my head on a cupboard, I have even been known to test if a cable is live by touching it with the BACK of a finger (reason for back is ac voltage causes muscles to contract so would pull finger away).

Now shorting a car battery positive terminal to ground with a spanner via a ring, that really does hurt and burn, it gets the ring very hot very quickly.
harlzter23/06/2020 13:32

Ive had plenty of 240v shocks none have really hurt me except when I …Ive had plenty of 240v shocks none have really hurt me except when I jumped up and hit my head on a cupboard, I have even been known to test if a cable is live by touching it with the BACK of a finger (reason for back is ac voltage causes muscles to contract so would pull finger away).Now shorting a car battery positive terminal to ground with a spanner via a ring, that really does hurt and burn, it gets the ring very hot very quickly.


You sound like a right health hazard ...a little like the sparky I recall from years and years ago who used to test things using one particular hand (don’t recall which), as he claimed that if he got a shock it was less likely to kill him!
Diggsy23/06/2020 13:37

You sound like a right health hazard ...a little like the sparky I …You sound like a right health hazard ...a little like the sparky I recall from years and years ago who used to test things using one particular hand (don’t recall which), as he claimed that if he got a shock it was less likely to kill him!



Seriously though all I have ever felt is a little tingle Ive had worse static shocks, its not like something I do often as I have proper testers.
harlzter23/06/2020 13:43

Seriously though all I have ever felt is a little tingle Ive had worse …Seriously though all I have ever felt is a little tingle Ive had worse static shocks, its not like something I do often as I have proper testers.


We had an electrician in the kitchen before changing stuff and he was just giving himself loads of shocks like that not turning the power off ha
harlzter23/06/2020 13:43

Seriously though all I have ever felt is a little tingle Ive had worse …Seriously though all I have ever felt is a little tingle Ive had worse static shocks, its not like something I do often as I have proper testers.


Think I’ll give it a miss myself. Hopefully you don’t suffer any major ones!!
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