Changing gender to 'become easier' apparently.

302
Found 23rd Jul 2017
So if you fancy a weekend as Darlene rather than Daryl, you might be in luck.

But seriously, as a parent who has to explain why some burly bloke is wearing a dress on the Underground, this seems a little bit....unnecessary.

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HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

That he wasn't a well man. I know that is likely offensive to certain … That he wasn't a well man. I know that is likely offensive to certain people but I don't really think confusing children is the best thing. You have to teach your kids in the best way you can and for me that's explaining that there are men, and there are women.



Is it really so difficult for you to say "because he wants to"?
My wife caught me cross dressing the other week.:|

So i packed her bags & left.
Who cares? People can identify however they like as long as it isn't hurting anyone.
The OP's inability to explain something simple to their child isn't the problem of person they are explaining, it is a problem with the OP themselves.
catbeans

Your argument isn't based in biology or science, stop saying that.



I can't help but think that the main motivation behind this thread is nothing to do with the specific issue that it is supposedly about, and more to do with the authors aching need for attention on an internet forum. The choice made to crowbar in a reference to an ex-NAACP leader rather confirms this. I recall a previous thread where the same member posted up two large images of Gina Miller, and subsequently tried to turn a judicial review of the role of Parliament on Brexit into something with racial undertones.

It is most strange - maybe he might like to explain his fascination with regularly posting otherwise unrelated race-related content. Is it just attention-seeking, or something more pernicious?
300 Comments
And how did you explain that?
No idea what you are referring to without a link, but a bloke wearing a dress is not the same as wanting to change gender.

Could be fancy dress, cultural, strict work/school dress code (no shorts allowed!), or just a bit of fun. Just saying.
Original Poster
lynsaydyson

And how did you explain that?



That he wasn't a well man. I know that is likely offensive to certain people but I don't really think confusing children is the best thing. You have to teach your kids in the best way you can and for me that's explaining that there are men, and there are women.
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

That he wasn't a well man. I know that is likely offensive to certain … That he wasn't a well man. I know that is likely offensive to certain people but I don't really think confusing children is the best thing. You have to teach your kids in the best way you can and for me that's explaining that there are men, and there are women.



Is it really so difficult for you to say "because he wants to"?
Original Poster
delusion

No idea what you are referring to without a link, but a bloke wearing a … No idea what you are referring to without a link, but a bloke wearing a dress is not the same as wanting to change gender. Could be fancy dress, cultural, strict work/school dress code (no shorts allowed!), or just a bit of fun. Just saying.




bbc.co.uk/new…782

The UK government is considering plans to make the process of changing legal gender easier.
Currently, people must be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, a condition where a person's biological sex and identity does not match.
The equalities minister says she wants to reform the 2004 Gender Recognition Act to make the process less intrusive


In the example I cited, it was what I assumed was a transgender female (so born a man) opposite us and my child asked one of those questions that kids sometimes do, where they don't really care about social mores X)

Basically 'why is that man wearing a dress?'. Apologised, hopped off the train and tried to explain.
Original Poster
aau1

Is it really so difficult for you to say "because he wants to"?



Sure, but the next question is always 'why?'.

I also don't particularly want my children thinking that it's a choice they should flippantly make themselves. Well aware that probably makes me an intolerant Daily Mail reader and that I'm probably wrong but the whole issue is odd to me.
Currently it takes two years living full time to get a gender recognition certificate, you need to submit proof of living like this to a panel before being officially recognised, To receive medical treatment you have to be referred to a gender identity clinic all of which have a year long wait list or much longer, then have two assessments 6 months apart as best. There is really nothing easy about officially changing your gender at the moment and reform is definitely needed. Also I don't know what a crossdresser has to do with any of this? I'm pretty sure this law would have no effect on that, or for that matter why this has been posted on this site
Original Poster
Station540

Currently it takes two years living full time to get a gender recognition … Currently it takes two years living full time to get a gender recognition certificate, you need to submit proof of living like this to a panel before being officially recognised, To receive medical treatment you have to be referred to a gender identity clinic all of which have a year long wait list or much longer, then have two assessments 6 months apart as best. There is really nothing easy about officially changing your gender at the moment and reform is definitely needed. Also I don't know what a crossdresser has to do with any of this? I'm pretty sure this law would have no effect on that, or for that matter why this has been posted on this site



I didn't say they were a crossdresser.

I can imagine it is a very arduous process but by making it easier there's always the danger that people who need help in other areas take the plunge and make a massive change.
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Sure, but the next question is always 'why?'. I also don't particularly … Sure, but the next question is always 'why?'. I also don't particularly want my children thinking that it's a choice they should flippantly make themselves. Well aware that probably makes me an intolerant Daily Mail reader and that I'm probably wrong but the whole issue is odd to me.


I completely agree with you. I would never say "because they want to" as that implies it is a normal choice to be made. Which it obviously isn't.

Maybe respond to it by saying "Some adults like to dress like that"...
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Sure, but the next question is always 'why?'. I also don't particularly … Sure, but the next question is always 'why?'. I also don't particularly want my children thinking that it's a choice they should flippantly make themselves. Well aware that probably makes me an intolerant Daily Mail reader and that I'm probably wrong but the whole issue is odd to me.



and the appropriate response is "because he enjoys it"
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

I didn't say they were a crossdresser.I can imagine it is a very arduous … I didn't say they were a crossdresser.I can imagine it is a very arduous process but by making it easier there's always the danger that people who need help in other areas take the plunge and make a massive change.


Well you said a big burly bloke wearing a dress not a transwoman wearing a dress so you can understand my confusion.

There are people with mental problems who try to transition, that's why there're multiple assessments before treatment but access to medical care isn't going to change so if "taking the plunge" only means changing your recognised legal gender (which if it's so easy to do won't be hard to change back) I find it hard to see the danger. Especially when the majority of transpeople just want to get on with their lives and are being hindered by outdated laws.
Original Poster
aau1

and the appropriate response is "because he enjoys it"



Telling kids that someone is doing something 'because he enjoys it' is a tricky one. X)

The answer is that he likely believes he is a woman who was born in the wrong body. Regardless of my own thoughts about the issue, that's not something I think young children should even have to think about.
JohnnyRoller

I completely agree with you. I would never say "because they want to" as … I completely agree with you. I would never say "because they want to" as that implies it is a normal choice to be made. Which it obviously isn't.Maybe respond to it by saying "Some adults like to dress like that"...



But they do want to, because it is normal .... for them
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Telling kids that someone is doing something 'because he enjoys it' is a … Telling kids that someone is doing something 'because he enjoys it' is a tricky one. X)The answer is that he likely believes he is a woman who was born in the wrong body. Regardless of my own thoughts about the issue, that's not something I think young children should even have to think about.



It depends on the age/inquisitiveness of the child. For my children "because he enjoys it" would satisfy their curiousity for the moment
aau1

But they do want to, because it is normal .... for them


You clearly do not have children. If you did you would understand that you have to answer questions in a way that they will understand, without it having an immediate influence on their opinion and choices.

Whether I agree or disagree with men who dress like women, or people who have had a gender change is irrelevant to how I explain things to my children.
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

The answer is that he likely believes he is a woman who was born in the … The answer is that he likely believes he is a woman who was born in the wrong body. Regardless of my own thoughts about the issue, that's not something I think young children should even have to think about.


I think there are much bigger issues that could scare children such as homelessness, famine, war, Ant & Dec, violence, Diego Costa, mulled wine, Lineker's pay, The Holocaust, Brexit etc.
Children can take a lot in their stride and a man wanting to dress and be seen as a woman legally won't unnecessarily trouble a child unless the parents makes a big deal about it.
But it sounds as if you may be falling into that trap.
JohnnyRoller

You clearly do not have children. If you did you would understand that … You clearly do not have children. If you did you would understand that you have to answer questions in a way that they will understand, without it having an immediate influence on their opinion and choices. Whether I agree or disagree with men who dress like women, or people who have had a gender change is irrelevant to how I explain things to my children.



Thanks for your insight but I have a 6 year old and a 2 year old and I know how to answer their questions in a way they will understand

My above post was in response to you and your "obviously isn't normal" quip.
.............because you live in London where greed and self satisfaction are the holy grail and people get confused?
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782The UK government is considering … http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40692782The UK government is considering plans to make the process of changing legal gender easier.Currently, people must be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, a condition where a person's biological sex and identity does not match.The equalities minister says she wants to reform the 2004 Gender Recognition Act to make the process less intrusiveIn the example I cited, it was what I assumed was a transgender female (so born a man) opposite us and my child asked one of those questions that kids sometimes do, where they don't really care about social mores X)Basically 'why is that man wearing a dress?'. Apologised, hopped off the train and tried to explain.



Why apologise? Surely the right thing to do would have been to say "because people can wear whatever they feel like wearing" to which the child would have immediately understood and no embarrassment would have been caused.
aau1

Thanks for your insight but I have a 6 year old and a 2 year old and I … Thanks for your insight but I have a 6 year old and a 2 year old and I know how to answer their questions in a way they will understandMy above post was in response to you and your "obviously isn't normal" quip.


Ok, well this is my last reply. I will reinforce what I said originally, it is most definitely not normal for a man to dress like a woman. Whether you agree with that or not, the definition of the word normal doesn't fit with that particular scenario.
lynsaydyson

And how did you explain that?


HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

That he wasn't a well man. I know that is likely offensive to certain … That he wasn't a well man. I know that is likely offensive to certain people but I don't really think confusing children is the best thing. You have to teach your kids in the best way you can and for me that's explaining that there are men, and there are women.


Some of the unwell population may soon be able to choose their preferred degree of unwellness independent.co.uk/new…tml but presumably from a narrower selection than the 23 gender options available to four year olds theargus.co.uk/new…er/
Original Poster
g8spur

Why apologise? Surely the right thing to do would have been to say … Why apologise? Surely the right thing to do would have been to say "because people can wear whatever they feel like wearing" to which the child would have immediately understood and no embarrassment would have been caused.



Because that man will identify as a woman and hearing someone use the wrong pronoun may have upset them.

Also, I don't really want my children to be under the impression that people can wear whatever they want. Ignoring the point that at school they can't do that and they won't likely be able to do that at work, I actually do think boys and girls should wear different clothes in most cases.
Left liberal pc culture will end the western world as we know it and defend Islam that hates it so much.
A few points
1 you can't change gender you can just make yourself no longer anything, render yourself a male or female who can't breed (depending on the method used possibly able to again at will) and no longer displays the outward physical markers of your gender.

2 its all mad and in general is an insult to women more so then men, its definition of gender based on stereotypes of behaviour and dress code, many of which are inforced by society, ingrained from childhood by unwittingly treating children differently according to whats between their legs, based on 100s of years of conditioning.

3 whats wong with a man wearing a dress?
Lets look at that shall we, why is a kilt ok but a skirt not? Why can women wear trousers but men not allowed to wear skirts, shall we look at other cultures would you insult a 6"3 new Zealander for wearing the traditional grass skirt?, Why can't a man wear high heels when they were invented for men, why can't men wear make up when they did in this country a few hundred years ago, why is the dandy more frowned upon now then during their hayday?.

In summary its all about BS fashion and the current social constrictions that pigeonhole pretty much everything, rather then liberating themselves they are playing into societies rigid rules.
Can it be done online similar to a deed poll? Imagine the doors it'll open from equal opportunity jobs reserved for women to the ladies changing room in the gym.
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Because that man will identify as a woman and hearing someone use the … Because that man will identify as a woman and hearing someone use the wrong pronoun may have upset them. Also, I don't really want my children to be under the impression that people can wear whatever they want. Ignoring the point that at school they can't do that and they won't likely be able to do that at work, I actually do think boys and girls should wear different clothes in most cases.



How old are you?, You do realise that 30 years ago most kids did wear whatever they wanted to school, strict school uniform was pretty much only inforced by private schools, everywhere else didn't care as long as you looked neat and clean. When my mother went to school in the 1940s they were happy if the kids turned up in shoes and had a coat for winter. Yet i think everyone can agree that social cohesion was greater in the past when there was less rules and restrictions, probably because with freedoms comes responsibility, a bit of Darwinism there. The more strict the state becomes the more childish the population
Station540

There is really nothing easy about officially changing your gender at the … There is really nothing easy about officially changing your gender at the moment



You're right. It's not easy to literally change gender. It's much easier to do it in your imagination. All you have to do is start asking questions about make-up, lipstick and sewing. Job done.
I agree with Mutley.
deeky

You're right. It's not easy to literally change gender. It's much easier … You're right. It's not easy to literally change gender. It's much easier to do it in your imagination. All you have to do is start asking questions about make-up, lipstick and sewing. Job done.



Anyone can sew or use makeup, these things aren't innately gendered, they are just often assigned those traits by people
I agree with Saturn.
My wife caught me cross dressing the other week.:|

So i packed her bags & left.
Old knowledge from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) in 1948, un.org/en/…ts/
......enacted in various pieces of Statutory Instruments. Parents need to explain as required and as normal for any knowledge and understanding of the world any exceptions and variations to any order, sequence, pattern that children observe as and when they are sensitive to in their sensitive period.
It is? Pray tell, what is this easy method for me to grow a **** now.

Edit: *sigh* the proper word is blocked? Grow a male appendage.
Edited by: "MSK." 23rd Jul 2017
MSK.

It is? Pray tell, what is this easy method for me to grow a **** now. … It is? Pray tell, what is this easy method for me to grow a **** now. Edit: *sigh* the proper word is blocked? Grow a male appendage.



I think didge is ok.
Restrict legal aid

Spend money on consultations to change legal gender

Goberment priority's.
Edited by: "catbeans" 23rd Jul 2017
MSK.

It is? Pray tell, what is this easy method for me to grow a **** now. … It is? Pray tell, what is this easy method for me to grow a **** now. Edit: *sigh* the proper word is blocked? Grow a male appendage.


I think most blokes will be happy to give you some
pointers
Can immediately fix the gender gap issue at BBC, just ask some of the blokes to reassign as females or simply , they ask to be counted as females in the pay reports.
Why do you feel the need to explain why a man has a dress on? so what if he has, he's not hurting anyone? What's the big deal?
HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

That he wasn't a well man. I know that is likely offensive to certain … That he wasn't a well man. I know that is likely offensive to certain people but I don't really think confusing children is the best thing. You have to teach your kids in the best way you can and for me that's explaining that there are men, and there are women.



I would say the same, if you said anything different they may decide to dress like them and being kids they may think its normal to dress like that not knowing that only cross dressers etc dress like that and their not straight. Where as you would have stright kids dress like that to which cross dressers and everyone else will find weird.
We now live in a time where it's OK to criticise heterosexual lifestyles, but saying anything negative about non-hetro relationships can land you in a load of trouble.
Even simply pointing out what is normal and what is abnormal is frowned upon most heavily.
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