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    Communism

    Would communism work better than capitalism in England ?.
    What would be the pro's and flaws ?.
    Was Marx a visionary or a fantasist ?.

    139 Comments

    INB4 FF tells us low earners how lazy we are & that we are just cry baby's :-/

    Would communism work better than capitalism in England ? - Communism hasn't worked very well so far so probably not.
    What would be the pro's and flaws ?. Look at states that were communist for your answer - corruption, inefficiency and stagnation
    Was Marx a visionary or a fantasist ? - An Idealist who's ideals could never be properly implimented into reality.

    Tried.... and failed. I don't see why England would be any different.

    mod

    Would communism work better than capitalism in England ?.What would be … Would communism work better than capitalism in England ?.What would be the pro's and flaws ?.Was Marx a visionary or a fantasist ?.


    You got your Sociology exam next week or something scousekop?

    andywedge

    You got your Sociology exam next week or something scousekop?



    I thought that too - do your own homework lol

    Original Poster

    andywedge

    You got your Sociology exam next week or something scousekop?


    Just interested in people's emotions towards politics and social problems, that is all Andy.

    Banned

    Communism - the political idealistic utopia. If it weren't for people it could actually work.

    Banned

    master_chief

    Communism - the political idealistic utopia. If it weren't for people it … Communism - the political idealistic utopia. If it weren't for people it could actually work.



    This.

    Communism fails because the majority of people in this world are selfish.

    The End.

    Banned

    bykergrove

    This.Communism fails because the majority of people in this world are … This.Communism fails because the majority of people in this world are selfish.The End.



    Precisely the reason capitalism is also failing the citizens of Earth too.

    Banned

    Communism or Marxism? 2 different things and going by your opening post your mixing them up

    Original Poster

    Karl Marx, was the father of Communism, he posted the communistic manifesto, where is the mix-up ODB.

    ODB_69

    Communism or Marxism? 2 different things and going by your opening post … Communism or Marxism? 2 different things and going by your opening post your mixing them up


    Only mentions communism in the OP not marxism. It mentions Marx but he was the co-author of the communist manifesto so relevant.

    Banned

    scousekop

    Karl Marx, was the father of Communism, he posted the communistic … Karl Marx, was the father of Communism, he posted the communistic manifesto, where is the mix-up ODB.



    Yes he did communist manifesto but did he explain how it was to work? No

    Original Poster

    Sorry ODB I am lacking the intellectual capacity to comprehend your point, my understanding is that the Communist manifesto is the blueprint of Communism, what did Marx not explain?.

    Banned

    You'd be kind of right and kind of wrong on that. He advised distribution to start the process but not actually to say how it would work

    Point is Marx can't be wrong as his vision of communism isn't what we see as communism...

    So to answer the last question....both! In reality Marx's vision was a Utopian society pretty much

    Edited by: "ODB_69" 10th Apr 2011

    Original Poster

    That's because of the natural evolution, nothing stays the same, edges get blurred, opinions and views get diallated, Marxism is still a form of communism, Imperialism hasnt worked, Capitalism hasn't worked, why shouldn't we try Communism?.
    Edited by: "scousekop" 10th Apr 2011

    I would like to see a Communist Conservative amalgamation, with the way real people are a true marx state would not work, but a lot more level playing field would be good, something i and friends have discussed in long discussions before
    Edited by: "Chuckles1001" 10th Apr 2011

    Wasn't communism envisaged as more a stage we would eventually reach as nature takes it's course? Maybe we're seeing the beginnings of this with the world financial melt-down and banking crisis?!

    One thing's for sure. Those who have accumulated wealth through their greed will be unlikely to give up such wealth, without the value of it dwindling faster than the value of a tenner in Zimbabwe. The concept of having "worked for what you have" is still alive and strong, even if you inherited your fortune and are a lazy ***. It makes people feel happy about their achievements and driving a new BMW rather than a Ford Escort, and gives them a means by which to put down others without such wealth whom they may see as lazy.

    Unfortunately most implementations of communism there have been in the world have not really been pure communism - leading to a number of misconceptions on what communism really is about. May be of interest en.wikipedia.org/wik…ets

    One thing capitalism does do is fails people with disabilities. Often people with certain types of disability will find extreme difficulty finding work where competition for positions is fierce, and for an employer whose aims are to make as much money as possible - only the best will do - and the best is not in anyway disabled. Anti-discrimination laws are a complete toothless joke. Millions of people are discriminated against in this manner, show me more than a handful of cases where employers have been punished!
    Edited by: "anewman" 10th Apr 2011

    Who says capitalism hasn't worked - most people in the U.K. are materially better off than in the past. Life expectancy has increased. There is financial support for those, not working, homeless, disabled, on a low income, retired and with children.
    Education has got worse but that has been 1997 when a socialist government (proto communist) got things wrong.
    Capitalism It has a blip it did in the 1920s and a bit in the 1970s but it bounces back - it encourages innovation, progress and personal endevour.

    Free bump just to see if FF will bite :-)

    Banned

    The reality of communism, is everybody is equal.....just some more equal than others....and that's all there is to it

    Doesn't work as people will inevitably want more and crush those under them to get it.

    Rather than rich and poor it would be those in the top tiers of the government and bureaucracy living in the big houses while the rest of us queue for potatoes.

    Banned

    crd67

    Who says capitalism hasn't worked - most people in the U.K. are … Who says capitalism hasn't worked - most people in the U.K. are materially better off than in the past. Life expectancy has increased. There is financial support for those, not working, homeless, disabled, on a low income, retired and with children. Education has got worse but that has been 1997 when a socialist government (proto communist) got things wrong.Capitalism It has a blip it did in the 1920s and a bit in the 1970s but it bounces back - it encourages innovation, progress and personal endevour.



    Britain isn't a purely capitalist society. We actually have quite large socialist elements.

    New Labour weren't socialist in many people's eyes.

    crd67

    Would communism work better than capitalism in England ? - Communism … Would communism work better than capitalism in England ? - Communism hasn't worked very well so far so probably not.What would be the pro's and flaws ?. Look at states that were communist for your answer - corruption, inefficiency and stagnation



    Same for capitalism

    Banned

    roryk83

    Same for capitalism



    Really? Inefficiency and stagnation?

    crd67

    Who says capitalism hasn't worked - most people in the U.K. are … Who says capitalism hasn't worked - most people in the U.K. are materially better off than in the past. Life expectancy has increased. There is financial support for those, not working, homeless, disabled, on a low income, retired and with children. Education has got worse but that has been 1997 when a socialist government (proto communist) got things wrong.Capitalism It has a blip it did in the 1920s and a bit in the 1970s but it bounces back - it encourages innovation, progress and personal endevour.



    The only reason we have a good life expectancy and financial support for those less advantaged is because of socialist ideas like the NHS and welfare.

    people saying it wouldn't work due to previous incarnations. Stalinism & Maosim etc is not true communism. It was communism in name only. Just like the Nazis were "socialists"

    Anyway, capitialism is most definitely not working. It fails more people than it benefits, and thats in the best of times.

    Look at the recent banking crisis, when will we learn....greed is not good

    FilthAndFurry

    Really? Inefficiency and stagnation?



    yeah - the Torys have come into power and said that inefficiency and stagnation were rife in the UK

    Would communism work better than capitalism in England ? Communism would not be implemented correctly. Hence, no. Capitalism might work, but like communism I've never seen it in action to know whether it can work.
    What would be the pro's and flaws ? Pros: greater level of equality. Flaws: humans are inherently greedy and lazy.
    Was Marx a visionary or a fantasist ? Both. The two terms are not mutually exclusive.

    Banned

    Would communism work better than capitalism in England ?.What would be … Would communism work better than capitalism in England ?.What would be the pro's and flaws ?.Was Marx a visionary or a fantasist ?.



    Ignoring the rest of the UK would be a massive flaw.

    Banned

    roryk83

    yeah - the Torys have come into power and said that inefficiency and … yeah - the Torys have come into power and said that inefficiency and stagnation were rife in the UK



    I think they were referring primarily to the public sector. That, in my experience, is the definition of stagnation and inefficiency.

    Banned

    If a person was in huge financial debt for the whole of their lives they would be considered a failure economically even if they continued making money to support themselves. Every single capitalist country on the planet was, is and always be in huge debt. It's not a situation that will change. How can any system be considered a success that's based on such debt?

    A society's success should be based on how the poor are doing, not how the well off are. There has and always will be a huge gulf between the two that will only get bigger. Because of globalisation it is meaningless to judge the success on a per country basis. Even if this country doesn't have levels of poverty seen in others, we should judge the success of capitalism on the very poorest on the planet. I would also add that the state a lot of people in this country live in is still unacceptable for any system to be considered a success.

    For me it's the poorly handled globalisation of capitalism that's the problem. That and the fact the greed is good culture of our current capitalist system will always be short sighted (hence perpetual boom and bust scenario) and for the good of the few and not the many.

    As I've stated many times, I'm not against capitalism, just this particular iteration of it.
    Edited by: "master_chief" 10th Apr 2011

    FilthAndFurry

    Britain isn't a purely capitalist society. We actually have quite large … Britain isn't a purely capitalist society. We actually have quite large socialist elements.New Labour weren't socialist in many people's eyes.

    Hi FF I knew you couldn't resist

    http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w88/tigerplank/baby-panda-waving-pic.jpg


    crd67

    Who says capitalism hasn't worked - most people in the U.K. are … Who says capitalism hasn't worked - most people in the U.K. are materially better off than in the past. Life expectancy has increased. There is financial support for those, not working, homeless, disabled, on a low income, retired and with children. Education has got worse but that has been 1997 when a socialist government (proto communist) got things wrong.Capitalism It has a blip it did in the 1920s and a bit in the 1970s but it bounces back - it encourages innovation, progress and personal endevour.



    are you for real?

    For a start Labour weren't a socialist government

    FilthAndFurry

    I think they were referring primarily to the public sector. That, in my … I think they were referring primarily to the public sector. That, in my experience, is the definition of stagnation and inefficiency.



    They weren't exclusively referring to the public sector - for example they have introduced new rules for the removal of regulations and red tape for businesses.

    Plus, look at the amount of UK companies that have gone under - e.g. Woolsworth - surely a more apt definition of stagnation and inefficiency

    Banned

    master_chief

    If a person was in huge financial debt for the whole of their lives they … If a person was in huge financial debt for the whole of their lives they would be considered a failure economically even if they continued making money to support themselves. Every single capitalist country on the planet was, is and always be in huge debt. It's not a situation that will change. How can any system be considered a success that's based on such debt?A society's success should be based on how the poor are doing, not how the well off are. There has and always will be a huge gulf between the two that will only get bigger. Because of globalisation it is meaningless to judge the success on a per country basis. Even if this country doesn't have levels of poverty seen in others, we should judge the success of capitalism on the very poorest on the planet. I would also add that the state a lot of people in this country live in is still unacceptable for any system to be considered a success.For me it's the poorly handle globalisation of capitalism that's the problem. That and the fact the greed is good culture of our current capitalist system will always be short sighted (hence perpetual boom and bust scenario) and for the common good of the few and not the many. As I've stated many times, I'm not against capitalism, just this particular iteration of it.



    I'd judge the success of capitalism in this country on the basis that ANYBODY can become rich if they are willing to work smart and work hard. There are no limitations - innovation and new ideas are almost always richly rewarded.

    Greed isn't good, but it means that great innovation is funded and rewarded.

    Capitalism means the best are rewarded. Communism means the best are handicapped so that the worst don't feel bad.

    Banned

    roryk83

    Plus, look at the amount of UK companies that have gone under - e.g. … Plus, look at the amount of UK companies that have gone under - e.g. Woolsworth - surely a more apt definition of stagnation and inefficiency



    I think you've just pointed out how capitalism actually eliminates those who are stagnant and fail to adapt. HMV will be the next to follow.

    Maybe in a communist country we could prop these companies up and force people to use them by removing alternatives, like internet shopping.

    FilthAndFurry

    I'd judge the success of capitalism in this country on the basis that … I'd judge the success of capitalism in this country on the basis that ANYBODY can become rich if they are willing to work smart and work hard. There are no limitations - innovation and new ideas are almost always richly rewarded.Greed isn't good, but it means that great innovation is funded and rewarded.Capitalism means the best are rewarded. Communism means the best are handicapped so that the worst don't feel bad.



    Absolute rubbish

    FilthAndFurry

    I think you've just pointed out how capitalism actually eliminates those … I think you've just pointed out how capitalism actually eliminates those who are stagnant and fail to adapt. HMV will be the next to follow.Maybe in a communist country we could prop these companies up and force people to use them by removing alternatives, like internet shopping.



    My point was that stagnation and inefficiency do exist within capitalism

    Don't kid yourself, this capitalist country props up many businesses- from bailing out banks to not chasing tax evaders

    Banned

    FilthAndFurry

    I think you've just pointed out how capitalism actually eliminates those … I think you've just pointed out how capitalism actually eliminates those who are stagnant and fail to adapt. HMV will be the next to follow.Maybe in a communist country we could prop these companies up and force people to use them by removing alternatives, like internet shopping.



    Havent all the banks just been propped up?

    Banned

    But filth, answer this. How can everybody become a success? If everybody is a success then nobody is. Are there enough jobs to support everyone becoming university educated and have earning expectations of £30K plus?

    It's simple economics, this system relies on there being poor people so you can have the rich. The system doesn't want everyone to succeed, it just wants to give the impression that everyone potentially could.
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