Conspiracy Theories - Last Week - 9/11, This Week = Moon Landing

Found 7th Sep 2009
Each Monday, i'll post a well known conspiracy theory, and we can have a healthy debate (not argument) about it.

First up, as it's the anniversary, 9/11. This is the biggest of recent times, and seems to have really split people, with both sides giving evidence to support their claims.

244 Comments

9/11 was an inside job. IT was the crab people, you can tell they set off explosions in the tower. The way it collapsed.

Ask any Republican Yank - it was Barack Obama.

By this evil deed, he hoped to demoralise America, so that they would elect him, so that he could turn the USA into a Marxist state.

And if you think this is a load of [email protected]*@cks, you cannot have read the utter bilge that Republican American conspiracy theorists are pushing round about Obama! It is really hilarious. :-D

Original Poster

I haven't heard these crazy Obama theories, i'll have to go and see them

Good topic, 9/11 was a definite inside job with so much evidence to show. a lot of other well known conspiracy theories are Pearl Harbor (the US knew of the impeding attack but ignored it to get pulled into the war. Vietnam war (the US ships were not torpedoed as the crew said it was a fine day with no boats for a very far distance and never got hit), 7/7 bombings in London (another inside job, evidence such as police on the scene commenting on the bomb blast in the train made the metal in the floor to explode upwards not downwards, indicating a bomb from underneath the train), not from a passenger, the Lockerbie bombing (another inside job as how could the Libyan guy bomb a plane from being in another plane), the JFK assasination and much more

one thing everyone should remember, and that is to NEVER believe anything the media tells you, NEVER be ignorant to something that may sound extraordinary but is true, read the evidence for yourself rather than letting media tell you what happened

I've just had a read through a few of the articles posted on that whatreallyhappened.com posted a bit earlier, and I have to say there are a few good points made on there. There are a lot of things that don't add up or make sense about not only the WTC, but also the flights involved in the attacks on other places.

I still wouldn't like to say either way, as the thought that the American government could be involved in doing this to their own country and people is utterly horrific, but at the same time, there are a lot of well made points in those articles, especially about the 'collapse' of the towers. Hmmmmm :thinking:

snowflake;6234885

This will end up being locked very soon I'm sure.Theories? I think that … This will end up being locked very soon I'm sure.Theories? I think that says it all..At the end of the day respect should be paid to those who lost their lives and discussions like this should be kept away from places where horrendous arguments will be created.



+1 :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Original Poster

Charlie&Lola;6234879

I still wouldn't like to say either way, as the thought that the American … I still wouldn't like to say either way, as the thought that the American government could be involved in doing this to their own country and people is utterly horrific, but at the same time, there are a lot of well made points in those articles, especially about the 'collapse' of the towers. Hmmmmm :thinking:



This is the thing, some people instantly dismiss the theory, with, as you say, surely they wouldn't do that, with little research. If you actually stop and read what people have to say, there are some big things there that causes doubt on the situation.

Unlike other conspiracy theories, there is a lot of 'evidence' that supports the claim, and in a recent poll in America, over 3/4 believed the conspiracy theory over the government explanation.

Why are they the only 3 metal framed buildings to ever collapse from fire? Why was the wreckage cleared so quickly afterwards, before investigations could be done? Why did they collapse at near free fall speed symmetrically?

Original Poster

snowflake;6234885

At the end of the day respect should be paid to those who lost their … At the end of the day respect should be paid to those who lost their lives and discussions like this should be kept away from places where horrendous arguments will be created.



I agree, that respect should be shown, but at the same time, the truth should be known. The American government could easily debunk the Pentagon missile theory by showing some of the footage that they have that they immediately collected from neighbouring buildings that have never seen the light of day.

You may say that it is sensitive footage, but lets not forget, we saw two planes hit the towers, in a big ball of flames, and then 2 towers, with hundreds of people inside collapse, all in real time as it happened. That's never been hidden

peodude;6234936

I agree, that respect should be shown, but at the same time, the truth … I agree, that respect should be shown, but at the same time, the truth should be known. The American government could easily debunk the Pentagon missile theory by showing some of the footage that they have that they immediately collected from neighbouring buildings that have never seen the light of day. You may say that it is sensitive footage, but lets not forget, we saw two planes hit the towers, in a big ball of flames, and then 2 towers, with hundreds of people inside collapse, all in real time as it happened. That's never been hidden



I agree 100% with what you are saying. and i will rep you after writing this comment
It's true that the Pentagon (the most secure site in the entire world, with thousands of cameras covering every square inch of the premises) couldn't even show us a massive airline hitting the building.

Sure the people who died on that awful day should be respected and remembered.
But what most people are not doing is showing respect to the innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan who are being innocently murdered every day by troops there. there has been over a million people murdered by troops, and only 3,000 killed on 9/11, that's a huge difference

i've thought long and hard about this over the years. I've got friends who were firefighters on the scene. I would never rule out an inside job. However i think with a building burning that long, and the weight of all those floors that were above the fire, its quite possible that what happened, happened, and wasn't an inside job. Of course there's a difference between the american government "doing it", and them "letting it happen".

peodude;6234913

Unlike other conspiracy theories, there is a lot of 'evidence' that … Unlike other conspiracy theories, there is a lot of 'evidence' that supports the claim, and in a recent poll in America, over 3/4 believed the conspiracy theory over the government explanation.



So what would be the gain for the government out of all the deaths and carnage? I'm not saying that I believe for one minute that any government in the world is 100% trustworthy, but is it really the opinion that all of these innocent people were killed by their own country just to make the world think badly of a certain country and maybe even make it look like there was a good enough reason to go to war with them, and look in the right for doing so? I've obviously spent the last few years in a little bubble as I had no idea theories like this were even out there ! I think I vaguely remember hearing something about the towers not supposed to be able to go down like that, but I obviously just did the old 'in one ear and out the other' trick thinking that it was something similar to Titanic, being the boat that couldn't sink then forgot about it .

Well, if anythings come out of this debate, it's that no one can argue there's a fair amount of dust in between my ears at times

mcnally32;6234992

i've thought long and hard about this over the years. I've got friends … i've thought long and hard about this over the years. I've got friends who were firefighters on the scene. I would never rule out an inside job. However i think with a building burning that long, and the weight of all those floors that were above the fire, its quite possible that what happened, happened, and wasn't an inside job. Of course there's a difference between the american government "doing it", and them "letting it happen".



It would have been physically impossible for the several foot thick steel core beams, and the several inch thick outer beams to have been destroyed by fire, they need something of a higher melting point to destroy them such thermite (can cut steel in seconds)
the eyewitness reports from inside the towers were saying that there was only a few small pockets of fires, that could have been easily controlled with hoses, they said only two lines were needed, it wasn't an inferno and people were still seen un-burnt in the impact area.
a skyscraper collapsing due to fire has never happened in human history, but it happened 7 times on September 11 (towers 1,2,3,4,5,6 and 7), a coincidence? i think not

DarkKnight;6234872

one thing everyone should remember, and that is to NEVER believe anything … one thing everyone should remember, and that is to NEVER believe anything the media tells you,



Even more important: never believe anything somone with even less credibility than the media tells you in an online chat room.

And certainly never believe anything on YouTube!

Fluffykins;6235019

Even more important: never believe anything somone with even less … Even more important: never believe anything somone with even less credibility than the media tells you in an online chat room.And certainly never believe anything on YouTube!



a guy in a chat room/forum could have ten times the knowledge/qualifications as the news reporter, and that is usually the case
the videos on Youtube are just showing you the truth, how else would you see for yourself?
they are not from the media themself, so are more trustworthy, they are un-edited and therefore un-biased.
anything in the world saying something to you is better than believing media, remember it

Original Poster

DarkKnight;6235016

a skyscraper collapsing due to fire has never happened in human history, … a skyscraper collapsing due to fire has never happened in human history, but it happened 7 times on September 11 (towers 1,2,3,4,5,6 and 7), a coincidence? i think not



Nope, only 3 buildings collapsed, North Tower, South Tower and World Trade Center 7

but once an individual believes something they will do whatever to make others believe it is true! Reading darknights posts its obvious he feels it was an inside job, I am like charlie&lola never heard of all this before, there are so many questions unanswered and things are easily twisted to go one way or the other. Its one of them things we will never really know.

I am happy to just leave it as remember those who died or lost loved ones that day. Its a sensitive subject imo when so many deaths were involved.

DarkKnight;6235030

a guy in a chat room/forum could have ten times the … a guy in a chat room/forum could have ten times the knowledge/qualifications as the news reporter, and that is usually the casethe videos on Youtube are just showing you the truth, how else would you see for yourself?they are not from the media themself, so are more trustworthy, they are un-edited and therefore un-biased.anything in the world saying something to you is better than believing media, remember it




okayyyyyyyyyyyy

peodude;6235047

Nope, only 3 buildings collapsed, North Tower, South Tower and World … Nope, only 3 buildings collapsed, North Tower, South Tower and World Trade Center 7



WTC 3,4,5,6 were also pulled by controlled demolision, they were all in one block

]Link

You can see their demolition videos online too

4lyons09;6235051

but once an individual believes something they will do whatever to make … but once an individual believes something they will do whatever to make others believe it is true! Reading darknights posts its obvious he feels it was an inside job, I am like charlie&lola never heard of all this before, there are so many questions unanswered and things are easily twisted to go one way or the other. Its one of them things we will never really know.I am happy to just leave it as remember those who died or lost loved ones that day. Its a sensitive subject imo when so many deaths were involved.



I totally understand what you are saying. if i was in your posistion and never seen the evidence, i would also question it and probably not believe it.
I would say that the only thing that anyone should do is to see the videos explaining what really happened and decide for themselves, and then to discuss what they think about it

Original Poster

video.google.com/vid…598 is the official documentary on this, with a lot of time and effort gone into it, not just trying to tell people, but by providing statements and facts to back up what they say. It's long, but well woth a watch, even for the non-believers.

4lyons09;6235051

but once an individual believes something they will do whatever to make … but once an individual believes something they will do whatever to make others believe it is true! Reading darknights posts its obvious he feels it was an inside job, I am like charlie&lola never heard of all this before, there are so many questions unanswered and things are easily twisted to go one way or the other. Its one of them things we will never really know.I am happy to just leave it as remember those who died or lost loved ones that day. Its a sensitive subject imo when so many deaths were involved.




Well put. As I said earlier, there are certainly a lot of interesting points raised, but even despite these points, I'd still want firm evidence to support this before I'd say I agree that it was all orchestrated or even assisted by their own government.

I'm still on the fence and more than likely staying put there :thumbsup:

The truth will never be known. The government will carry on doing what they do. The public will forget and do nothing.

razta;6235091

The truth will never be known. The government will carry on doing what … The truth will never be known. The government will carry on doing what they do. The public will forget and do nothing.



Sadly thats the truth, they will never get caught, and will surely do something like this again in the near future if they know they can get away with it :x

DarkKnight;6235075

I totally understand what you are saying. if i was in your posistion and … I totally understand what you are saying. if i was in your posistion and never seen the evidence, i would also question it and probably not believe it.I would say that the only thing that anyone should do is to see the videos explaining what really happened and decide for themselves, and then to discuss what they think about it



Yea I see what your saying :thumbsup:
peodude;6235081

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3719259008768610598# is the … http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3719259008768610598# is the official documentary on this, with a lot of time and effort gone into it, not just trying to tell people, but by providing statements and facts to back up what they say. It's long, but well woth a watch, even for the non-believers.



Will save that in my faves, watched the c4 one earlier, watching the videos from people that were there and seeing the chaos was quite intense.
Charlie&Lola;6235082

Well put. As I said earlier, there are certainly a lot of interesting … Well put. As I said earlier, there are certainly a lot of interesting points raised, but even despite these points, I'd still want firm evidence to support this before I'd say I agree that it was all orchestrated or even assisted by their own government.I'm still on the fence and more than likely staying put there :thumbsup:



Me too, for now :thumbsup:

DarkKnight;6235016

It would have been physically impossible for the several foot thick steel … It would have been physically impossible for the several foot thick steel core beams, and the several inch thick outer beams to have been destroyed by fire, they need something of a higher melting point to destroy them such thermite (can cut steel in seconds)the eyewitness reports from inside the towers were saying that there was only a few small pockets of fires, that could have been easily controlled with hoses, they said only two lines were needed, it wasn't an inferno and people were still seen un-burnt in the impact area.a skyscraper collapsing due to fire has never happened in human history, but it happened 7 times on September 11 (towers 1,2,3,4,5,6 and 7), a coincidence? i think not



lets face it towers like that aren't built to have commerical airliners fly into them with thousands of gallons of fuel on board. Pockets of fires? um did you see the videos? pockets of fires do not make that much smoke. An airline just after take off is carrying x amount of fuel which doesn't create pockets of fires, it creates an inferno. I never said it beams were destroyed by fire either, i meant weakened by fire. Then however many floors that were above the fire, all that weight on weakened steel. In saying all this i'm not a disbeliever, its quite possible the government had a hand. I just don't think they planted explosives etc. If anything they knew of the impending attack and let it go ahead.

snowflake;6234885

This will end up being locked very soon I'm sure.Theories? I think that … This will end up being locked very soon I'm sure.Theories? I think that says it all..At the end of the day respect should be paid to those who lost their lives and discussions like this should be kept away from places where horrendous arguments will be created.



Touche

mcnally32;6235224

lets face it towers like that aren't built to have commerical airliners … lets face it towers like that aren't built to have commerical airliners fly into them with thousands of gallons of fuel on board. Pockets of fires? um did you see the videos? pockets of fires do not make that much smoke. An airline just after take off is carrying x amount of fuel which doesn't create pockets of fires, it creates an inferno. I never said it beams were destroyed by fire either, i meant weakened by fire. Then however many floors that were above the fire, all that weight on weakened steel. In saying all this i'm not a disbeliever, its quite possible the government had a hand. I just don't think they planted explosives etc. If anything they knew of the impending attack and let it go ahead.



They was built to withstand plane hits, also extreme winds which are actually more powerful than bomb blasts and plane attacks due to their extreme pressure. the towers only shook a bit when the planes hit, but they took it as the planes got sliced up by the towers many feet thick steel columns, it could have taken 10 or 20 of those planes before getting some major damage. lets face it, 5+ feet thick steel > almost anything

Yes it was indeed pockets of fires, look and see the eyewitness report videos, the report of isolated fires came from fireman themselves so it couldn't have come from a better source.
the fire you saw coming from the fires was smoke from paper, carpets etc inside burning, which gives out dark sooty smoke, high temperature flames give out no smoke
you can find this out by getting a bunsen burner, a lower temperature flame produces soot, put it on high and it doesn't

if the towers were weakened by fire and caused it to collapse, then explain how it defied the laws of physics by failing on every core column and every outer column (hundreds of columns) at exactly the same time, to the exact same second and falling in freefall motion (meaning no resistance) for there to be no resistance there must be something destroying the level below before the level above reaches there, hence the bomb blasts you can see on Youtube

have you taken a look at how Tower 7 fell? that had almost no fire in it at all, yet it collapsed exactly the same as the other 6 towers.
isn't it coincidence that all of these towers fell in the exact same way as controlled demolition?

even more coincidence when no steel skyscraper has ever collapsed due to fire or plane attacks before? and yet 7 did it in the space of a few hours

It was one of the worlds biggest crimes, yet not many people know about it, at least there are some which is good

I wonder what conspiracy theory there is behind the conspiracy theories. I have my own theory about the conspiracies but any theory about a conspiracy is just a theory anyway.

well,let me first state that I havent seen any of the conspiracy documentaries altho they are now on my list to do-always good to have both sides of any story so impossible to have an opinion until I have done so.

what I would be interested to know tho is-in any of these docs do they then put forward a theory as to who did this and why? It certainly gave bush licence to take civil liberties away and to go to war which I personally think he was gagging to do. But he was less than 8 months in the presidency when this happened so thats a lot of scheming in a very short space of time. And if it was an inside job wouldnt it have taken a huge amount of people involved to make it happen? conspiracies are usually kept to a very small amount of people are they not?

its not enough to say "inside job" and leave it at that-so can anyone reccommend me a documentary that also has a theory as to who,how and why?

I do remember seeing a doc on bbc2 some time back with engineers explaining why the towers fell the way they did-something to do with the construction of the internal core-cant really remember it in depth tho so need to track that one down too.

but on a final note what I DO believe is that the american government are capable of anything at all-remember the "evidence" they produced to the united nations for weapons of mass destruction in iraq? remember they WERENT using extraordinary rendition? remember they DONT torture prisoners? remember they DONT use cluster bombs on civillian areas?-all lies.

incidentally-much respect for darkKnight and peodude for actually conducting an informing and reasoned discussion without treating those with an opposing view like idiots. this is one of the few "discussion" threads that ACTUALLY is a discussion without resorting to insults.

i have seen the vids on youtube and it really does make you think, was ages ago i watched them so cant remeber will have another look later

At last a proper discussion without any arguments XXX

Original Poster

I concur, well done all for keeping it on track.

In Loose Change, it shows that in January 2001, the chief designer of WTC was saying that the building WAS designed to withstand a direct hit from a plane, which, at the time of building, was a Boeing 707. All skyscrapers are built to withstand a plane hit, due to the possibility of them being hit in fog, bad conditions etc.

If it wasn't controlled demolition, then there were some serious serious building defects, whether down to the designers, or builders cutting corners.

Banned

peodude;6234913

This is the thing, some people instantly dismiss the theory, with, as you … This is the thing, some people instantly dismiss the theory, with, as you say, surely they wouldn't do that, with little research. If you actually stop and read what people have to say, there are some big things there that causes doubt on the situation.Unlike other conspiracy theories, there is a lot of 'evidence' that supports the claim, and in a recent poll in America, over 3/4 believed the conspiracy theory over the government explanation.Why are they the only 3 metal framed buildings to ever collapse from fire? Why was the wreckage cleared so quickly afterwards, before investigations could be done? Why did they collapse at near free fall speed symmetrically?



I agree 100%

There are so many discrepancies in the 'official' story

xx

Banned

DarkKnight;6235262

They was built to withstand plane hits, also extreme winds which are … They was built to withstand plane hits, also extreme winds which are actually more powerful than bomb blasts and plane attacks due to their extreme pressure. the towers only shook a bit when the planes hit, but they took it as the planes got sliced up by the towers many feet thick steel columns, it could have taken 10 or 20 of those planes before getting some major damage. lets face it, 5+ feet thick steel > almost anythingYes it was indeed pockets of fires, look and see the eyewitness report videos, the report of isolated fires came from fireman themselves so it couldn't have come from a better source.the fire you saw coming from the fires was smoke from paper, carpets etc inside burning, which gives out dark sooty smoke, high temperature flames give out no smoke you can find this out by getting a bunsen burner, a lower temperature flame produces soot, put it on high and it doesn'tif the towers were weakened by fire and caused it to collapse, then explain how it defied the laws of physics by failing on every core column and every outer column (hundreds of columns) at exactly the same time, to the exact same second and falling in freefall motion (meaning no resistance) for there to be no resistance there must be something destroying the level below before the level above reaches there, hence the bomb blasts you can see on Youtubehave you taken a look at how Tower 7 fell? that had almost no fire in it at all, yet it collapsed exactly the same as the other 6 towers.isn't it coincidence that all of these towers fell in the exact same way as controlled demolition?even more coincidence when no steel skyscraper has ever collapsed due to fire or plane attacks before? and yet 7 did it in the space of a few hoursIt was one of the worlds biggest crimes, yet not many people know about it, at least there are some which is good



Very well put!

Has anyone even started on the Pentagon plane (missile) attack yet? :roll: x

It was setup to give reason for oil hunting end of.

What's up with creating a war you cannot defeat and using as a fear tool to control laws, better and easier then cold war, whoever thought it up was a brilliant mind.

Banned

DarkKnight;6234872

Good topic, 9/11 was a definite inside job with so much evidence to show. … Good topic, 9/11 was a definite inside job with so much evidence to show. a lot of other well known conspiracy theories are Pearl Harbor (the US knew of the impeding attack but ignored it to get pulled into the war. Vietnam war (the US ships were not torpedoed as the crew said it was a fine day with no boats for a very far distance and never got hit), 7/7 bombings in London (another inside job, evidence such as police on the scene commenting on the bomb blast in the train made the metal in the floor to explode upwards not downwards, indicating a bomb from underneath the train), not from a passenger, the Lockerbie bombing (another inside job as how could the Libyan guy bomb a plane from being in another plane), the JFK assasination and much moreone thing everyone should remember, and that is to NEVER believe anything the media tells you, NEVER be ignorant to something that may sound extraordinary but is true, read the evidence for yourself rather than letting media tell you what happened


I used to think 911 was an inside job after watching Loose change etc but deeper investigations revealed most of their points to be false.

Dont believe the USA let pearl harbour happen so the USA could get pulled into the war either.

On October 31, 1941 The destroyer USS Reuben James was torpedoed by a German U-boat near Iceland, killing more than 100 United States Navy sailors.

Roosevelt took no action whatsoever.

csiman;6236004

I used to think 911 was an inside job after watching Loose change etc but … I used to think 911 was an inside job after watching Loose change etc but deeper investigations revealed most of their points to be false.Dont believe the USA let pearl harbour happen so the USA could get pulled into the war either. On October 31, 1941 The destroyer USS Reuben James was torpedoed by a German U-boat near Iceland, killing more than 100 United States Navy sailors. Roosevelt took no action whatsoever.



Its all about public outrage, sorry but one ship isn't going to outrage the USA public into war, there was little or no support for entering world war 2 after world war one, suddenly pearl harbour is attacked and the need for war was on there door step, since then it had been europe and was not there problem as the americans were living a nice life.

The Americans have done it over and over again, the media networks are owned by the people who make tanks and weapons at the end of the day America is always prosperous as a war machine.

Banned

Adam2050;6236031

Its all about public outrage, sorry but one ship isn't going to outrage … Its all about public outrage, sorry but one ship isn't going to outrage the USA public into war, there was little or no support for entering world war 2 after world war one, suddenly pearl harbour is attacked and the need for war was on there door step, since then it had been europe and was not there problem as the americans were living a nice life.The Americans have done it over and over again, the media networks are owned by the people who make tanks and weapons at the end of the day America is always prosperous as a war machine.


dont get me wrong! I know the US government is the biggest warmongering nation probably in history but I cant see that they let pearl harbour happen to enter a war. hardly makes sense to allow their pacific fleet to be bombed to bits to enter a war.

Quite alarming to see just how many military operations they have been involved in over their history. You'd think the average US citizen would be better at geography than they are :-D

en.wikipedia.org/wik…ons

they were old buildings, anywho its a tragedy such a waste of life

Banned

Alfonse;6236104

they were old buildings, anywho its a tragedy such a waste of life


I wouldnt call 30 year old buildings old! :w00t:

Banned

csiman;6236169

I wouldnt call 30 year old buildings old! :w00t:



Especially when they were built to withstand attacks....:thumbsup:
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