Consumer Right? Warranty?

18
Posted 20th AprEdited by:"Notting"
Help needed regarding consumer right please. I got a N&S shower drainage pump from nichollsandclarke.com/
The item is still under warranty but they refused to replace/repair the broken drainage pump. They insist that we need to buy a new one (extra £300 + VAT) and send the old one for check and testing .. when it is done ... we will get the money back.

It doesn't sound right at all.
The product they provided is faulty and didn't last up to 2 years as promised and now they are asking me to buy again from them?

Any idea how to tackle this situation? Please help.
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18 Comments
If you don't need the pump for several weeks I'm sure they will take it back for repair (or refund if not fixable). But this will leave you without a pump for a long time.
What was your plan if you did get the refund?

Also can you not buy the new one on a credit card? Then you will have likely got the refund back before you need to pay the credit card bill.
If you are claiming under the warrenty then you need to abide by their conditions as that is a contract between you and them.
If you are claiming under consumer regs then you need to tell them in a durable format (email or letter) to reject the item, it is then up to them to collect and refund but going this route means you need to be prepared to sue for the value and prove to a CC judge the item did not meet the criteria as to quality.
Talk to the consumer experts in Citizens Advice - number at the bottom of this web page
citizensadvice.org.uk/con…ee/
They can't make you buy another one, just return the faulty one for repair/replacement/refund as per the warranty.
@Notting four questions:
Did you purchase the pump directly from the indicated supplier or via a distributer or installer?
Are you attempting to claim against the merchant legal guarantee or manufacturer warranty?
How long since the pump came into your possession?
Was the pump purchased as a single item (separately itemised on an invoice) or as a component within some other equipment?
Some generalisations in meantime: a merchant guarantee has no requirement for the claimant to purchase a like-for-like replacement for any valid element of a legal guarantee to apply. Any manufacturer warranty is separate and unrelated to merchant legal guarantee and provides gesture of goodwill benefits on the terms as stated in it.
AndyRoyd20/04/2020 14:00

@Notting four questions:Did you purchase the pump directly from the …@Notting four questions:Did you purchase the pump directly from the indicated supplier or via a distributer or installer?Are you attempting to claim against the merchant legal guarantee or manufacturer warranty? How long since the pump came into your possession?Was the pump purchased as a single item (separately itemised on an invoice) or as a component within some other equipment?Some generalisations in meantime: a merchant guarantee has no requirement for the claimant to purchase a like-for-like replacement for any valid element of a legal guarantee to apply. Any manufacturer warranty is separate and unrelated to merchant legal guarantee and provides gesture of goodwill benefits on the terms as stated in it.


@AndyRoyd
1) Bought via plumber (J Stevenson) via local supplier:
reference: hotukdeals.com/dis…505
2) Claim against manufacturer Warranty3) Had it on 3/8/2018
Edited by: "Notting" 20th Apr
Notting20/04/2020 14:41

[Image] @AndyRoyd 1) Bought via plumber (J Stevenson) via local supplier: …[Image] @AndyRoyd 1) Bought via plumber (J Stevenson) via local supplier: reference: https://www.hotukdeals.com/discussions/phlexiflow-shower-waste-drainage-pump-issue-any-experts-out-there-please-30085052) Claim against manufacturer Warranty3) Had it on 3/8/2018


Cannot read every word in the warranty terms image but there appears to be no mention of a specific obligation to buy a replacement pump to qualify for warranty service to your existing pump. There is equally no provision for a replacement pump to be provided whilst your (defective) pump is considered for any applicable warranty service.

Assuming I have read these lines of the warranty correctly:
"...we will provide replacement parts that have failed due to faults in materials or assembly... This warranty is limited to... Pump components, it does not cover any replacement work or costs involved in the replacement work..."
you have a "parts-only" warranty with no warranty cover for any labour associated with removing/refitting the pump, despatching the pump to/from the warranty provider, diagnosing the issue and fitting any prematurely-failed components.

You imply you believe the pump itself is faulty which presumably means you have (somehow) identified that the power supply / controller is not the cause of the issue (and there is no stated warranty on the electrical controls). Even if you remove the pump yourself any self-fund return to the warranty provider you still have an obligation to pay for the warranty provider to assess&address the issue and also pay for return so it would be prudent to be aware of those likely costs before proceeding.

There is a secondary option: you state "Bought via plumber" via "local supplier". You don't categorically state who directly received your payment for the pump but whichever entity directly received your payment is your supplier / merchant / trader and holds your legal guarantee obligations for up to 6 years after you took possession of the pump. The supplier may be receptive to your guarantee claim but realistically that is unlikely, although it may only cost you a few minutes / an email / a letter to enquire. At circa 20 months after possession the supplier is entitled to demand that you prove the issue was present at time of purchase, prior to even considering your claim. Unless you have access to a credible pump expert who will consider examining your pump at minimal cost it is unlikely the legal guarantee route via supplier is viable.
Notting20/04/2020 14:41

[Image] @AndyRoyd 1) Bought via plumber (J Stevenson) via local supplier: …[Image] @AndyRoyd 1) Bought via plumber (J Stevenson) via local supplier: reference: https://www.hotukdeals.com/discussions/phlexiflow-shower-waste-drainage-pump-issue-any-experts-out-there-please-30085052) Claim against manufacturer Warranty3) Had it on 3/8/2018


Can you post URL / image of the 3 years warranty doc? It may contain additional / different terms.
AndyRoyd20/04/2020 15:51

Cannot read every word in the warranty terms image but there appears to …Cannot read every word in the warranty terms image but there appears to be no mention of a specific obligation to buy a replacement pump to qualify for warranty service to your existing pump. There is equally no provision for a replacement pump to be provided whilst your (defective) pump is considered for any applicable warranty service.Assuming I have read these lines of the warranty correctly:"...we will provide replacement parts that have failed due to faults in materials or assembly... This warranty is limited to... Pump components, it does not cover any replacement work or costs involved in the replacement work..."you have a "parts-only" warranty with no warranty cover for any labour associated with removing/refitting the pump, despatching the pump to/from the warranty provider, diagnosing the issue and fitting any prematurely-failed components. You imply you believe the pump itself is faulty which presumably means you have (somehow) identified that the power supply / controller is not the cause of the issue (and there is no stated warranty on the electrical controls). Even if you remove the pump yourself any self-fund return to the warranty provider you still have an obligation to pay for the warranty provider to assess&address the issue and also pay for return so it would be prudent to be aware of those likely costs before proceeding.There is a secondary option: you state "Bought via plumber" via "local supplier". You don't categorically state who directly received your payment for the pump but whichever entity directly received your payment is your supplier / merchant / trader and holds your legal guarantee obligations for up to 6 years after you took possession of the pump. The supplier may be receptive to your guarantee claim but realistically that is unlikely, although it may only cost you a few minutes / an email / a letter to enquire. At circa 20 months after possession the supplier is entitled to demand that you prove the issue was present at time of purchase, prior to even considering your claim. Unless you have access to a credible pump expert who will consider examining your pump at minimal cost it is unlikely the legal guarantee route via supplier is viable.


@AndyRoyd The payment was made to the plumber. The plumber got it from the local supplier. I contacted the plumber but he asked me to contact the manufacturer directly.

I had 2 independent plumber (1. from 247 Home Rescue; 2. from HomeServe) both also said it is the shower drainage pump issue and will not be covered under their Emergency Drainage Issue policy. In fact I am struggling to find any insurance that cover Shower Tray drainage issue. Sigh...
Later they replied: that I needed a new impeller on it and they N&S would email the details and how to fit it but I have to order it at £23 from them, then only they will send out fitting instruction.
Notting20/04/2020 19:39

Later they replied: that I needed a new impeller on it and they N&S would …Later they replied: that I needed a new impeller on it and they N&S would email the details and how to fit it but I have to order it at £23 from them, then only they will send out fitting instruction.


Note the warranty extension doc you posted specifically states the impellor is excluded from warranty so if the impellor is the issue then an appropriate charge to obtain the impellor is reasonable. Your wording suggests you will be arranging the impellor swap, not the manufacturer, which follows the "parts-only" wording of the warranty extension doc.

This may still be in your favour if you can obtain a statement from the manufacturer that the (excluded from warranty) impellor has failed prematurely. You can then consider the viability of a claim against the supplier (i.e. the plumber) citing unsatisfactory quality under Consumer Rights Act 2015.
The level of compensation you could expect if your claim was successful would be relative to the period that the pump functioned correctly (20 months?) compared to the typical life expectancy of the impellor as identified by the credible expert (the manufacturer). If we assume the manufacturer states 5 years (60months) as a reasonable minimum life expectancy, you could equally reasonably suggest that you are due compensation from the supplier of circa 40/60 (two thirds) of whatever the supplier (plumber) charged for the pump plus £23 for the impellor plus impellor fitting costs. Or you could simply come to an arrangement with the supplier (plumber) for the plumber to fit the impellor at no / low / negative charge and draw a line under it.
An early approach to the supplier (plumber) is appropriate to allow the supplier a reasonable opportunity to resolve the issue without you accruing unnecessary costs.

If you cannot obtain a statement of typical life expectancy of the pump from the manufacturer and/or if the supplier (plumber) declines to play ball, you would be back to considering if it is worthwhile to employ a credible expert to provide a statement of typical life expectancy of the pump, then consider if it would be worthwhile chasing the plumber under CRA 2015.

One observation: the manufacturer excludes the impellor from its extended (and standard?) warranty which implies the typical life expectancy of the pump may be so low it would not be viable to claim against the supplier for unsatisafctory goods (premature failure) as the failure may not be excessively premature.
AndyRoyd20/04/2020 20:32

Note the warranty extension doc you posted specifically states the …Note the warranty extension doc you posted specifically states the impellor is excluded from warranty so if the impellor is the issue then an appropriate charge to obtain the impellor is reasonable. Your wording suggests you will be arranging the impellor swap, not the manufacturer, which follows the "parts-only" wording of the warranty extension doc.This may still be in your favour if you can obtain a statement from the manufacturer that the (excluded from warranty) impellor has failed prematurely. You can then consider the viability of a claim against the supplier (i.e. the plumber) citing unsatisfactory quality under Consumer Rights Act 2015. The level of compensation you could expect if your claim was successful would be relative to the period that the pump functioned correctly (20 months?) compared to the typical life expectancy of the impellor as identified by the credible expert (the manufacturer). If we assume the manufacturer states 5 years (60months) as a reasonable minimum life expectancy, you could equally reasonably suggest that you are due compensation from the supplier of circa 40/60 (two thirds) of whatever the supplier (plumber) charged for the pump plus £23 for the impellor plus impellor fitting costs. Or you could simply come to an arrangement with the supplier (plumber) for the plumber to fit the impellor at no / low / negative charge and draw a line under it.An early approach to the supplier (plumber) is appropriate to allow the supplier a reasonable opportunity to resolve the issue without you accruing unnecessary costs.If you cannot obtain a statement of typical life expectancy of the pump from the manufacturer and/or if the supplier (plumber) declines to play ball, you would be back to considering if it is worthwhile to employ a credible expert to provide a statement of typical life expectancy of the pump, then consider if it would be worthwhile chasing the plumber under CRA 2015.One observation: the manufacturer excludes the impellor from its extended (and standard?) warranty which implies the typical life expectancy of the pump may be so low it would not be viable to claim against the supplier for unsatisafctory goods (premature failure) as the failure may not be excessively premature.


Thank you @AndyRoyd !
Notting20/04/2020 22:06

https://www.docdroid.net/Ts3PH5d/phlexiflow-pump-guarantee-leaflet-pdfRef: …https://www.docdroid.net/Ts3PH5d/phlexiflow-pump-guarantee-leaflet-pdfRef: https://www.hotukdeals.com/discussions/phlexiflow-shower-waste-drainage-pump-issue-any-experts-out-there-please-3008505


That's the manufacturer's two year warranty extension doc, not specifically the (first) 3 years manufacturer warranty doc.
Is there a specific document that states t&c for the first 3 years of the manufacturer's warranty, or are you certain the extension doc provide same terms as first 3 years?
AndyRoyd20/04/2020 22:17

That's the manufacturer's two year warranty extension doc, not …That's the manufacturer's two year warranty extension doc, not specifically the (first) 3 years manufacturer warranty doc.Is there a specific document that states t&c for the first 3 years of the manufacturer's warranty, or are you certain the extension doc provide same terms as first 3 years?


In fact I don't have the hard copy of the warranty, the plumber said he sent it to the manufacturer and all he has is that digital copy.
Notting20/04/2020 22:21

In fact I don't have the hard copy of the warranty, the plumber said he …In fact I don't have the hard copy of the warranty, the plumber said he sent it to the manufacturer and all he has is that digital copy.


It's unlikely the wording of the first 3 years period is different to the 2 years extension, but it would have been prudent to clarify, especially as the warranty t&c may have changed since 20+ months ago.
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