Contactless Payment - Card Declined

63
Found 9th Nov 2017
I have just been embarrassed by having my card declined at the supermarket; and having spoken to the bank, I would like to stop others having the same issue.

It turns out there is a limit on how many contactless payments you can make before using chip and pin - around 30.

When declined, all you have to do is make the payment by chip and pin, and contacltess is re-enabled for another ~30 payments; however the card reader doesnt tell you that - only that the card has been declined.

I hope this info helps someone.

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63 Comments

Interesting, never knew there was a "limit" so to speak.

I always just assumed every now and then the bank required you to authenticate the card using chip and pin just to ensure you actually still owned it.

Thanks for the info!

HellRazer6 m ago

Interesting, never knew there was a "limit" so to speak.I always just …Interesting, never knew there was a "limit" so to speak.I always just assumed every now and then the bank required you to authenticate the card using chip and pin just to ensure you actually still owned it.Thanks for the info!


It's in case you lose the card and some naughty criminal goes on a spending spree with your card, could buy a hundred drinks in a nightclub before your noticed it was gone.

Sounds good BUT.
I used a card in tesco was declined- So paid cash as I dont know the pin number. Only used for housekeeping so dont want the code.
Went next door to Iceland And worked fine.
Next day went to tesco again worked fine.
Who Knows.

It's a 30 quid limit for security
In your case it is the till assistants fault for not knowing this or pointing it out to you as most will
If you don't know your pin then ask your bank to send out a new one

Sounds sensible that, and I never knew about it.

Although could still be out of pocket to the tune of £900 before it gets questioned (worse case scenario)

kotr15 m ago

It's a 30 quid limit for security In your case it is the till assistants …It's a 30 quid limit for security In your case it is the till assistants fault for not knowing this or pointing it out to you as most willIf you don't know your pin then ask your bank to send out a new one



You and the OP are talking about different limits.

Sebas11119 m ago

Sounds sensible that, and I never knew about it.Although could still be …Sounds sensible that, and I never knew about it.Although could still be out of pocket to the tune of £900 before it gets questioned (worse case scenario)



Exactly the reason why I always get non-contactless cards. Two ladies from our local charity shop had their cards nicked from out the back and the scum who stole them spent £900 on each card around town! Hopefully, the police might look at CCTV but I think thats just wishful thinking.

Not sure if they will get reimbursed by the bank as it could be deemed as negligence as the door of the back room wasnt locked.

Same applies if you lose your card I would imagine as that could be counted as negligence.

Barclays - "All contactless transactions, on both Barclaycard's and Barclays' debit cards, are covered by our standard fraud guarantee, so as long as a customer hasn't been negligent with their card or PIN they will be fully covered against fraud."

It was clearly stated on all our cards from three different banks?!?!? Perhaps people need to read the documents?

Thanks for the heads up. I keep forgetting I got a contactless card until after I’ve put my PIN number in lol.

pricesavvy5 m ago

Thanks for the heads up. I keep forgetting I got a contactless card until …Thanks for the heads up. I keep forgetting I got a contactless card until after I’ve put my PIN number in lol.

There are few actual benefits of contactless (I don't get that name as I still have to "touch" the machine), its less secure, the debit his your account later than with c&P and it saves about 2seconds

chocci12 m ago

Exactly the reason why I always get non-contactless cards. Two ladies from …Exactly the reason why I always get non-contactless cards. Two ladies from our local charity shop had their cards nicked from out the back and the scum who stole them spent £900 on each card around town! Hopefully, the police might look at CCTV but I think thats just wishful thinking.Not sure if they will get reimbursed by the bank as it could be deemed as negligence as the door of the back room wasnt locked. Same applies if you lose your card I would imagine as that could be counted as negligence.Barclays - "All contactless transactions, on both Barclaycard's and Barclays' debit cards, are covered by our standard fraud guarantee, so as long as a customer hasn't been negligent with their card or PIN they will be fully covered against fraud."


Isn't it illegal to have a locked backdoor on a shop incase of fire it has to kept unlocked or be a fire safety door

Segata-Sanshiro10 m ago

Isn't it illegal to have a locked backdoor on a shop incase of fire it has …Isn't it illegal to have a locked backdoor on a shop incase of fire it has to kept unlocked or be a fire safety door




no? never even heard that, are you confusing doors with fire escapes?

frakison13 m ago

There are few actual benefits of contactless (I don't get that name as I …There are few actual benefits of contactless (I don't get that name as I still have to "touch" the machine), its less secure, the debit his your account later than with c&P and it saves about 2seconds



It doesn't actually have to touch that is just what people do.

Segata-Sanshiro13 m ago

Isn't it illegal to have a locked backdoor on a shop incase of fire it has …Isn't it illegal to have a locked backdoor on a shop incase of fire it has to kept unlocked or be a fire safety door



It was an internal door to the back office. I expect that office had a one way push bar external door for emergencies.

catbeans12 m ago

no? never even heard that, are you confusing doors with fire escapes?


If the back door is a fire escape its the same thing, somewhere my ex worked( before he worked there obviously) had one back door and the shop entrance, the key for the backdoor was kept near the till, the front of the shop caught fire and the staff died in the kitchen area because they couldn't get out the door and couldn't get back in the front to get the key, the company was fined. When he worked there all employees had a key to the backdoor on a bungee chord they had to keep on them at all times.

always thought no limit on number of transactions but that each transaction has to be under £30. good to know that if my card gets stolen there is a limit on the loss.

the limit on number of transactions may not be set in stone but depends on the bank's policy on fraud detection, which may be why the card gets blocked if it is unusual activity.

Original Poster

kotr1 h, 19 m ago

It's a 30 quid limit for security In your case it is the till assistants …It's a 30 quid limit for security In your case it is the till assistants fault for not knowing this or pointing it out to you as most willIf you don't know your pin then ask your bank to send out a new one




As mentioned above, I am not talking about £30, but 30 times; use contactless ~30 times and your card is declined until you use chip and pin; after that the card can be used for another ~30 contactless payments. Every time you use Chip and Pin, the 30 contactless payments limit is reset.

Other banks may vary in how they handle it.

I am aware of the security implications, but I use the card only a few times per week, and this was actually the first use in about 2 weeks, because I am so ill.

The amount fraudsters can get through, even with a £30 limit is scary though; I used to work as a recovery agent, and I was chasing one guy who was spending £2,000* per day on a set of cancelled cards. By using a loophole in how payments used to be processed. he had scammed about £40,000 before the bank involved woke up and realised what he was doing, and another £10,000 before they sent me the paperwork to go after him.

* this was back when you could buy a new Ford Fiesta for £5,500!!

As for the comments about it being no easier/quicker, you obviously arent using it right, I just tap my wallet on the reader, as the card is topmost in the card slots; no need to open the wallet and take the card out.

I’ve never hit the limit. In saying that there are still shops without contactless. So maybe using Chip and Pin at all resets the counter.
Even then it should decline but prompt to enter card and use pin.

It must vary with providers as my Barclays card resets about every 10 touches.

30 transactions before having to chip and pin is a lot, my bank has its limit set at seven I believe.

It's not just contactless payments, the number of total debit transactions are limited per day. As I found out the other day after a glitch where Amazon hit my account up nearly 100 times in an hour.

I am limited to 30 total transactions a day. The number resets at midnight. If there are more transactions that haven't dropped off by then, they come out on the following days allowance, as it were.

30 contactless transactions in a given period I presume, I must have made more than 30 since I had the card with no problems.

Gentle_Giant1 h, 33 m ago

As mentioned above, I am not talking about £30, but 30 times; use …As mentioned above, I am not talking about £30, but 30 times; use contactless ~30 times and your card is declined until you use chip and pin; after that the card can be used for another ~30 contactless payments. Every time you use Chip and Pin, the 30 contactless payments limit is reset.Other banks may vary in how they handle it.I am aware of the security implications, but I use the card only a few times per week, and this was actually the first use in about 2 weeks, because I am so ill.The amount fraudsters can get through, even with a £30 limit is scary though; I used to work as a recovery agent, and I was chasing one guy who was spending £2,000* per day on a set of cancelled cards. By using a loophole in how payments used to be processed. he had scammed about £40,000 before the bank involved woke up and realised what he was doing, and another £10,000 before they sent me the paperwork to go after him.* this was back when you could buy a new Ford Fiesta for £5,500!!As for the comments about it being no easier/quicker, you obviously arent using it right, I just tap my wallet on the reader, as the card is topmost in the card slots; no need to open the wallet and take the card out.


You need to tell us which bank this was just check 5 or 6 and all say there is no limit one does say you may be asked to put your pin in now and again.

Just use my phone with Apple Pay or tap with the card but limit has been £30 - read the details next time you order a new card etc.

I originally read this as a £30 limit, which I thought everyone already knew, and then re-read it.

I didn’t know a limit existed. I always use contactless so it’s helpful to know.

Nationwide’s contactless system went down on Saturday so I had the embarrassment of a payment for a £2 item being declined in front of a family member who afterwards asked if I had any financial problems (I only had a £10 note on me so didn’t want to annoy the cashier initially), and I heard of people missing their trains because they didn’t know what had happened and didn’t think of chip and pin (broke student problem).

HellRazer6 h, 21 m ago

Interesting, never knew there was a "limit" so to speak.I always just …Interesting, never knew there was a "limit" so to speak.I always just assumed every now and then the bank required you to authenticate the card using chip and pin just to ensure you actually still owned it.Thanks for the info!




Fumoffu!

A couple of times in Sainsbury's it happened to me that contactless wasn't working (Barclay`s debit card) but the reader did say to try swiping it or insert the pin.
It's only happened to me in Sainsbury's, though.

Original Poster

eslick3 h, 37 m ago

You need to tell us which bank this was just check 5 or 6 and all say …You need to tell us which bank this was just check 5 or 6 and all say there is no limit one does say you may be asked to put your pin in now and again.



It was First Direct, but it sounds like the people you spoke to at the banks didnt know; I got this from one of the service desk people after I phoned; she said they get a lot of these calls because the information isnt well known, even by the front line staff.

Gentle_Giant1 m ago

It was First Direct, but it sounds like the people you spoke to at the …It was First Direct, but it sounds like the people you spoke to at the banks didnt know; I got this from one of the service desk people after I phoned; she said they get a lot of these calls because the information isnt well known, even by the front line staff.


Useful. After 30 total transaction or per day

hearts2241 m ago

A couple of times in Sainsbury's it happened to me that contactless wasn't …A couple of times in Sainsbury's it happened to me that contactless wasn't working (Barclay`s debit card) but the reader did say to try swiping it or insert the pin.It's only happened to me in Sainsbury's, though.


I use contactless all the time now unless the bill is more than £30. It gets refused about 20% of the time and i have to use chip and pin. Happens to meany where, not just sainsburys.

i dont think it is every 30 transactions like clockwork. i've been asked for a pin much earlier than that. i think the bank does random checks

Used my Apple Pay for 6 straight months now, never used my card must be hundreds of payments never had to use my pin.

Also Apple Pay has no £30.00 limit so have done lots of higher payments too..

I find the contactless payment option depends on the shop as to if it will work or not

Original Poster

eslick1 h, 1 m ago

Useful. After 30 total transaction or per day



Total, I think the 7 limit others have mentioned might be the daily limit, but it may vary bank to bank. I suspect if you use C&P, the limit resets, so you are good for another 7 bonks that day

Original Poster

haritori7 m ago

Used my Apple Pay for 6 straight months now, never used my card must be …Used my Apple Pay for 6 straight months now, never used my card must be hundreds of payments never had to use my pin.Also Apple Pay has no £30.00 limit so have done lots of higher payments too..



Not everywhere can take/want to take Apple Pay, there was a big brouhaha about it when it came out; Apple being apple with their new A¬ device toy.

(See what I did there?? )

Gentle_Giant4 m ago

Not everywhere can take/want to take Apple Pay, there was a big brouhaha …Not everywhere can take/want to take Apple Pay, there was a big brouhaha about it when it came out; Apple being apple with their new A¬ device toy.(See what I did there?? )


Everywhere that takes contactless takes Apple Pay, its all NFC payments there is no difference if a card machine accepts contactless then it accepts Apple & Android Pay..

Prior to Apple I used Android Pay same thing months of payments with no issues, and I am with Halifax and Barclays I cannot recall being asked to enter my pin.

Do you ave links to the 'big brouhaha'? As I dont recall seeing anything about it not being accepted, only certain banks (Barclays being one) not allowing it to register with them.

Original Poster

haritori1 h, 28 m ago

Everywhere that takes contactless takes Apple Pay, its all NFC payments …Everywhere that takes contactless takes Apple Pay, its all NFC payments there is no difference if a card machine accepts contactless then it accepts Apple & Android Pay..Prior to Apple I used Android Pay same thing months of payments with no issues, and I am with Halifax and Barclays I cannot recall being asked to enter my pin. Do you ave links to the 'big brouhaha'? As I dont recall seeing anything about it not being accepted, only certain banks (Barclays being one) not allowing it to register with them.




Apple tried to bully the banks the same way they bullied the mobile phone shops and teleco's when they launched the A¬Phone, and the banks told them to get lost - it put back Apple pay by over a year.
I am sure if you trawl through the back stories on The Register you will find a few articles about it; I seem to remember an article on The Daily Beast as well.

Gentle_Giant17 m ago

Apple tried to bully the banks the same way they bullied the mobile phone …Apple tried to bully the banks the same way they bullied the mobile phone shops and teleco's when they launched the A¬Phone, and the banks told them to get lost - it put back Apple pay by over a year.I am sure if you trawl through the back stories on The Register you will find a few articles about it; I seem to remember an article on The Daily Beast as well.


Not sure thats true? Apple Pay Launched fine it was Barclays who refused to use it and launched there own service, they have now added Apple as a partner.. Apple charges about 0.15% fee for each transaction thats less than Visa who charge 0.2% + 1p for each transaction..

I really cannot find information (you listening FP?) on the delays of apple pay being down to hardballing banks..

Sounds like you have a biased opinion on Apple Pay.

Original Poster

"Why do they hate Apple Pay?

Because it doesn’t benefit them enough. Apple Pay is great for consumers, because it keeps your financial information private and makes shoppers harder to track. They also hate that Apple Pay still uses credit cards, which cost retailers between 1 percent and 5 percent on each transaction. They’ve created CurrentC as a way to cut out the middlemen by processing payments through Automatic Clearing Houses that charge lower rates."

Fan-boi site

So, Apple tried to bypass the bank clearing houses, yet use the banks own card systems, so the banks werent happy about it, as they make their money on the clearing house fees.
Many retailers werent happy, because they still had to pay the banks card fees, even though Apple werent.

The bit about privacy is B.S. It just means only Apple decide who to sell your info to; and storing the info on a physical chip in your phone is also not particularly safe - I understand it has already been hacked, although the black hats need your phone to do it - so encouraging more phone thefts.

Above backed up by this

"
  • Apple is reportedly in talks to launch Apple Pay in the UK in early 2015
  • It is currently said to be negotiating terms with retailers and British banks
  • But sources claim a major bank is 'uncomfortable' with the service's terms
  • It is rumoured to be querying how much data the service wants to collect
  • This wrangling could mean the release schedule is pushed back"

Daily Fail
Edited by: "Gentle_Giant" 9th Nov 2017
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