Could this ever happen on a british airways flight

82 replies
Found 10th Apr
The United Airlines wanted to fly some crew to another destination but the aircaft was full.They had 4 crew to reseat so after randomly getting 3 people to leave the aircraft one person didn't move this is what happened next
youtube.com/wat…ePg

Top comments

Don't let Ryanair know you can get away with this! X)

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/241/770/b8a.jpghttp://rollingout.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/United-Airlines-Fight-Club.jpg
https://s3.amazonaws.com/vinescope/images/united-internet-memes.png


Sorry .. it's a slow morning in work X)
82 Comments

Don't let Ryanair know you can get away with this! X)

I understand the purpose of overselling seats but how is it that the airline can allow you to get on the plane and then say " oh we are overbooked, get off" Usually in an overbooking situation where every one turns up its sorted out before people get on the plane by way of compensation .

United Airlines have a lot of questions to answer

From what I read they overbooked but it was because of another flight crew that supposedly caused the overbooking and then the need to remove 4 paying passengers.

I doubt it would ever happen in the UK because I believe UK has better controls on how airlines treat customers and possibly would have arranged another flight crew, if needed, by other means IMHO

Many American's are spouting "I will never use United again" but I question the validity of that statement

Original Poster

rhinopaul

I understand the purpose of overselling seats but how is it that the … I understand the purpose of overselling seats but how is it that the airline can allow you to get on the plane and then say " oh we are overbooked, get off" Usually in an overbooking situation where every one turns up its sorted out before people get on the plane by way of compensation .


In the end they offered $800 compensation plus a night in a hotel.

Just seen an update on the news and it shows the manhandled passenger getting back on the plane 10 mins later, he claimed to be a doctor that needed to be in hospital, I guess he must have proved it.

rhinopaul

I understand the purpose of overselling seats but how is it that the … I understand the purpose of overselling seats but how is it that the airline can allow you to get on the plane and then say " oh we are overbooked, get off" Usually in an overbooking situation where every one turns up its sorted out before people get on the plane by way of compensation .


It's their plane and they reserve the right to evict you from their property. The Asian chap should've walked out like the other two passengers who understood the rules of contract and made no fuss.

tempt

It's their plane and they reserve the right to evict you from their … It's their plane and they reserve the right to evict you from their property. The Asian chap should've walked out like the other two passengers who understood the rules of contract and made no fuss.


Theres also something called customer service, He stated he was a doctor and needed to be on the flight and as they let him back on 10 mins later , Id suspect he wasnt lying .

GAVINLEWISHUKD

Don't let Ryanair know you can get away with this! X)



Their stock prices actually went up following this incident, too. I fully expect O'Leary to personally lay someone out first thing tomorrow.

Original Poster

Simon Calder was just on BBC radio 5 just said basically the passenger was in the wrong when he refused to leave the aircraft you have no rights yes you pay for a ticket but if the captain says you have to leave for whatever reason overbooking etc then you have to go.

I saw this on channel 4 news and thought it was disgusting, they assaulted the guy and knocked him unconscious

tempt

It's their plane and they reserve the right to evict you from their … It's their plane and they reserve the right to evict you from their property. The Asian chap should've walked out like the other two passengers who understood the rules of contract and made no fuss.


Theres also a matter of human rights, and the passenger who was forcibly ejected had done nothing wrong.
The airline was clearly in the wrong for overbooking, i'm sure if this was taken to court then the judge would rule in favor of the passenger - irrespective of any implied contract.

tempt

It's their plane and they reserve the right to evict you from their … It's their plane and they reserve the right to evict you from their property. The Asian chap should've walked out like the other two passengers who understood the rules of contract and made no fuss.



"The Asian chap"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

on the bright side this is the most litigious country in the world am sure he will make them pay, as I would

archer1204

Simon Calder was just on BBC radio 5 just said basically the passenger … Simon Calder was just on BBC radio 5 just said basically the passenger was in the wrong when he refused to leave the aircraft you have no rights yes you pay for a ticket but if the captain says you have to leave for whatever reason overbooking etc then you have to go.



​and I'm in a minority but if airport security tell me to get off a flight then I will...not bawl like a baby until I have to be dragged off it...what a tool that passenger is.

davewave

​and I'm in a minority but if airport security tell me to get off a f … ​and I'm in a minority but if airport security tell me to get off a flight then I will...not bawl like a baby until I have to be dragged off it...what a tool that passenger is.



What a deluded tool you are. The passenger 1) Paid for his seat which he doesn't have to get off for without a valid reason, ps overbooking your own flight and forgetting your own employees is not a valid excuse.

2) He was assaulted, he was attacked and you could also call racism (if you're like that).

3) If that was me, I would fight for my seat even if I was just going on holiday because its my right and their wrong and fight i don't mean kick up a fuss! I mean punch and kick, since if they want to assault me then I'll assault back in self defence.

You're obviously one of them people who like to stir s*** up, if not then you're the minority as stated who shouldn't be on this planet if you seriously think the passenger was in the wrong.

One of the security has been suspended.

I'm sure they could have packed another one in somehow.
http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/2192630/84271067.gif

Normally I think Simon Calder is a deluded tool, but he's right in this case.

It can happen anywhere, yes you've paid for a ticket, but at the end of the day when you cross the threshold onto the aircraft the captain's word is final. It is up to them if you travel or not and they have complete discretion over that. Obviously, there is all sorts of commercial/reputation considerations to take into account, but if they don't want you on the flight then you're not on the flight.

Denied boarding compensationIf you are denied boarding against your will … Denied boarding compensationIf you are denied boarding against your will on a flight for which you have both a valid ticket and a confirmed reservation, we will pay you compensation and provide refreshments and other care as required by any law which may apply. This will not apply if you fail to meet the check-in and boarding requirements in clause 6 or we exercise our right to refuse to carry you under clause 5d3 or 7.



If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations than … If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations than there are seats available), no one may be denied boarding against his or her will until airline personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservation willingly, in exchange for compensation of the airline’s choosing. If there are not enough volunteers, other passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with the following boarding priority of American. In such events, American will usually deny boarding based upon check-in time, but we may also consider factors such as severe hardships, fare paid, and status within the AAdvantage® program.



Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied … Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:



Three taken from BA, AA and United. That would cover this situation, although the way the airport security have gone about it is a little OTT in this case. Every carrier in the world will have something similar to this in their T&Cs.

TL:DR - they can kick anyone they want off their flights as it's their aircraft, not yours. That said, they went about it in a very stupid way, but they 're still allowed to do it
Edited by: "Cakeboy79" 11th Apr

archer1204

In the end they offered $800 compensation plus a night in a hotel.



Sounds like a total cock up in their usual procedures.
Usually there is a rush to the desk with volunteers when they announce a flight is overbooked and they need to bump people and compensate them. I did it last year, and was put on a flight 6 hours later but was bumped up to Biz class and given £500 of flight vouchers but I was travelling alone and was in no big rush to get home.

I'm confused... If the plane was already full why were they kicking people off to let more on?... What made the passengers that didn't make it on the plane more important than someone else selected at random? First come first served seems the fairer way to deal with this sort of thing.

Don't get me started on overselling in general! Worked for a chain of hotels in the past and they oversold every day, but never managed to get the balance right so had to book people out to other lower starred hotels in the area on a daily basis. Never once did they do the right thing and put people in a like for like hotel. An absolutely **** practise! Even though I can see the point of overselling, if you're not going to handle it properly when you don't have enough cancellations, you're risking damaging your brand and severely **** off a customer.

dfunked

I'm confused... If the plane was already full why were they kicking … I'm confused... If the plane was already full why were they kicking people off to let more on?... What made the passengers that didn't make it on the plane more important than someone else selected at random? First come first served seems the fairer way to deal with this sort of thing.Don't get me started on overselling in general! Worked for a chain of hotels in the past and they oversold every day, but never managed to get the balance right so had to book people out to other lower starred hotels in the area on a daily basis. Never once did they do the right thing and put people in a like for like hotel. An absolutely **** practise! Even though I can see the point of overselling, if you're not going to handle it properly when you don't have enough cancellations, you're risking damaging your brand and severely **** off a customer.



The ones that didn't get on until later were united airlines staff I believe. But with the amount of compensation they were offering could have just paid for their staff to travel by private plane, coach, or helicopter to be honest...

I have been bumped a few times ..I expect lots of people have. And the airline has made it financially attractive and would initially seek volunteers. Never after boarding. But I used to do a regular Monday Morning and Friday return and back then would get £250 and an hour wait for the next flight. Once my partner and I got £600 each on a Friday.

Denied boarding compensationIf you are denied boarding against your will … Denied boarding compensationIf you are denied boarding against your will on a flight for which you have both a valid ticket and a confirmed reservation, we will pay you compensation and provide refreshments and other care as required by any law which may apply. This will not apply if you fail to meet the check-in and boarding requirements in clause 6 or we exercise our right to refuse to carry you under clause 5d3 or 7.

If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations … If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations than there are seats available), no one may be denied boarding against his or her will until airline personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservation willingly, in exchange for compensation of the airline’s choosing. If there are not enough volunteers, other passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with the following boarding priority of American. In such events, American will usually deny boarding based upon check-in time, but we may also consider factors such as severe hardships, fare paid, and status within the AAdvantage® program.

Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied … Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:


those quotes say deny boarding - they do not say anything about removal after boarding

Danjw91

What a deluded tool you are. The passenger 1) Paid for his seat which he … What a deluded tool you are. The passenger 1) Paid for his seat which he doesn't have to get off for without a valid reason, ps overbooking your own flight and forgetting your own employees is not a valid excuse.



If you are going to rant and insult people, as least be sure to get your facts right or it makes you look the tool.

Overbooking flights has been a common occurrence for years on flights … Overbooking flights has been a common occurrence for years on flights across the United States. Despite the inconvenience of being forced to miss a flight, the federal government allows airlines to oversell flights. While the US Department of Transportation allows for customers to be forced off flights, customers could get compensated.The airline is also required to give passengers forced off a plane due to overbooking a written statement.

Denied boarding compensationIf you are denied boarding against your … Denied boarding compensationIf you are denied boarding against your will on a flight for which you have both a valid ticket and a confirmed reservation, we will pay you compensation and provide refreshments and other care as required by any law which may apply. This will not apply if you fail to meet the check-in and boarding requirements in clause 6 or we exercise our right to refuse to carry you under clause 5d3 or 7.

If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations … If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations than there are seats available), no one may be denied boarding against his or her will until airline personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservation willingly, in exchange for compensation of the airline’s choosing. If there are not enough volunteers, other passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with the following boarding priority of American. In such events, American will usually deny boarding based upon check-in time, but we may also consider factors such as severe hardships, fare paid, and status within the AAdvantage® program.

Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied … Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:



So they make a mistake and allow too many to board. What then? Let them stand?

deeky

So they make a mistake and allow too many to board. What then? Let them … So they make a mistake and allow too many to board. What then? Let them stand?


well you said it - THEY made the mistake
this isn't a case of letting anyone stand either, it was a case of removing someone already seated so someone else who wasn't yet seated (or even booked on the plane) could take their seat

brilly

well you said it - THEY made the mistakethis isn't a case of letting … well you said it - THEY made the mistakethis isn't a case of letting anyone stand either, it was a case of removing someone already seated so someone else who wasn't yet seated (or even booked on the plane) could take their seat



It doesn't matter. They can remove him from the plane. It's their plane and it's obviously allowed. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but looking at it from their point of view, if the waiting (crew) passengers don't get on the plane, then there are are possibly hundreds of other passengers down the line going to be booked on a plane that isn't going to fly.

deeky

It doesn't matter. They can remove him from the plane. It's their plane … It doesn't matter. They can remove him from the plane. It's their plane and it's obviously allowed. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but looking at it from their point of view, if the waiting (crew) passengers don't get on the plane, then there are are possibly hundreds of other passengers down the line going to be booked on a plane that isn't going to fly.


it does matter, i am not saying they cant do it - only that it is wrong

and as you say the knock on effect could have cost then loads - they obviously could have offered much more to get someone off
if overbooking is allowed then surely they should practise over staffing also

United's PR representative showing up to work today

https://media.giphy.com/media/nLhdSinRtaL2E/giphy.gif

brilly

it does matter, i am not saying they cant do it - only that it is … it does matter, i am not saying they cant do it - only that it is wrongand as you say the knock on effect could have cost then loads - they obviously could have offered much more to get someone offif overbooking is allowed then surely they should practise over staffing also



I was just saying it doesn't matter if it's right or wrong. It's obviously allowable for them to remove him. I agree that they could have sorted it out before it came to this. I would have suggested an auction type thing where they just upped the compensation, bit by bit, for one more passenger to leave. I'm sure it wouldn't have been long before it got too much for someone to refuse X)

What gets me is the faux shock from nearby passengers, yet not one said they'd step off instead.

In other words, it's a shocking scene, but less shocking than giving up their own seat. Hmm.

What was the process that led to this specific passenger being the one chosen for removal? Was there a formalised method used such a last to check-in if not enough volunteers come forward? If entirely random, this guy will be a US lawyers dream client.

Saturn

What was the process that led to this specific passenger being the one … What was the process that led to this specific passenger being the one chosen for removal? Was there a formalised method used such a last to check-in if not enough volunteers come forward? If entirely random, this guy will be a US lawyers dream client.


According to the news, they used a computer to generate random seats.

118luke

Theres also a matter of human rights, and the passenger who was forcibly … Theres also a matter of human rights, and the passenger who was forcibly ejected had done nothing wrong.The airline was clearly in the wrong for overbooking, i'm sure if this was taken to court then the judge would rule in favor of the passenger - irrespective of any implied contract.



​he refused to get off the plane. he doesn't own the plane does he?

What I've not seen anywhere is a statement saying it was essential for these employees to be on that particular flight. I.e it doesn't say they were cabin crew for that flight - so they could have just put them on the next available flight. Or, if the passenger absolutely refused, why did they not simply try someone else?
They handled the situation very badly in my opinion.

rhinopaul

According to the news, they used a computer to generate random seats.



Thanks. Hadn't followed the story beyond the footage. The airline will still be managing a PR and reputational nightmare, but the inevitable lawsuit and payout will be less generous if they can point to a formal procedure being adhered to.

davewave

​he refused to get off the plane. he doesn't own the plane does he?



Still doesn't give them the right to assault him. There were many other options they could've done, they took the worst one to me.
Even refusing to fly the plane until someone agrees to get off would have been (a not ideal but) better solution.
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