Credit card fraudulent transactions

41
Posted 23rd JulEdited by:"mutley1"
I got home this evening to find a credit card statement with 4 transactions on it from amazon market place.

I called the credit card fraud line and they said that they will put the money back into my account, so remove these transactions, over the next two days.

I am just wondering who pays for these fraudulent activities? Who actually foots the bill? The credit card company, the retailers, as it certainly aint me?
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Boris? Lol pass good question
The credit card company will charge the transactions back as frsudulent unless it's a small amount in which case they'll probably write them off as not cost effective to dispute. The company can represent the transaction if they can show they are genuine, in which case the credit card company will reapply them to the account
psychobitchfromhell23/07/2020 21:11

The credit card company will charge the transactions back as frsudulent …The credit card company will charge the transactions back as frsudulent unless it's a small amount in which case they'll probably write them off as not cost effective to dispute. The company can represent the transaction if they can show they are genuine, in which case the credit card company will reapply them to the account


but these transactions are fraudulent, so that mean that the amazon sellers will lose out as the transactions were on amazon market place?

there were 4 transactions, totalling nearly £130 over a week.
Edited by: "mutley1" 23rd Jul
mutley123/07/2020 21:18

but these transactions are fraudulent, so that mean that the amazon …but these transactions are fraudulent, so that mean that the amazon sellers will lose out as the transactions were on amazon market place?there were 4 transactions, totalling nearly £130 over a week.


Yep. The sellers will lose out.
psychobitchfromhell23/07/2020 21:20

Yep. The sellers will lose out.


but that is so unfair. how would they have known that the credit card details were stolen?
mutley123/07/2020 21:21

but that is so unfair. how would they have known that the credit card …but that is so unfair. how would they have known that the credit card details were stolen?


They wouldn't necessarily know but who else would you want to stand the loss?
psychobitchfromhell23/07/2020 21:23

They wouldn't necessarily know but who else would you want to stand the …They wouldn't necessarily know but who else would you want to stand the loss?


it means as a retailer, you would lose money through no fault of your own. in a way they only got themselves to blame here as they sent the purchases to another address than the billing address, as i certainly never received anything from amazon market place.

this is why some online retailers will not deliver items to a different address than the card registered address.
Whoever foots the bill will just claim it off insurance I guess.
mutley123/07/2020 21:39

it means as a retailer, you would lose money through no fault of your own. …it means as a retailer, you would lose money through no fault of your own. in a way they only got themselves to blame here as they sent the purchases to another address than the billing address, as i certainly never received anything from amazon market place.this is why some online retailers will not deliver items to a different address than the card registered address.


Exactly. Due diligence and all that.
MR112323/07/2020 21:41

Whoever foots the bill will just claim it off insurance I guess.


amazon sellers are like your ebay sellers. they won't have insurance. i would guess only the big organisations may have fraud insurance.
After investigation the charges may go back to the customer.

If the CSC was used etc. Only the customer should know this.
Amazon account password compromised etc.

The amazon purchases will have an associated IP and it will be checked against the customers accepted normal purchases.

I do some work with a bank and it's fraud department. It's not always a happy story for the card holder.

Claiming "Nothing to do with me gov" is sometimes not good enough, we all have to protect our own data.
Edited by: "Chiptivo" 23rd Jul
I wonder how much of the mark-up on goods covers unrecoverable losses e.g. some fraud?
Chiptivo23/07/2020 22:16

After investigation the charges may go back to the customer. If the CSC …After investigation the charges may go back to the customer. If the CSC was used etc. Only the customer should know this. Amazon account password compromised etc. The amazon purchases will have an associated IP and it will be checked against the customers accepted normal purchases. I do some work with a bank and it's fraud department. It's not always a happy story for the card holder. Claiming "Nothing to do with me gov" is sometimes not good enough, we all have to protect our own data.


no doubt they will check with amazon. i have had fraudulent transactions on credit cards before. normally around £200 each time. i think it must have happened about 4 or 5 times now over the years, and it always seem to be used online for purchases. the charges never come to back to me so someone had to pay for them.

i think it is not uncommon for credit card details to be stolen and used fraudulently, but it seems the customer is protected as it has to be proved that the customer made the purchases. the customer does not have to prove anything, everyone else has to produce the proof.

i guess amazon will just reverse the charge from the amazon sellers and they have to deal with it themselves? it is not amazon that loses the money in this instance, so would they bother to look that closely?

for clarification, the purchases were not made from my amazon account. it was not my main credit card so i don't use that card on my amazon account anyway. i haven't used that card for over a year and it has been locked away in the drawer at home. i had used it at the supermarkets last year and ali express. the suspect is aliexpress sold the card details on somehow, i am guessing.
Edited by: "mutley1" 23rd Jul
tardytortoise23/07/2020 22:41

I wonder how much of the mark-up on goods covers unrecoverable losses e.g. …I wonder how much of the mark-up on goods covers unrecoverable losses e.g. some fraud?


i don't think it would be factored in? as prices are very competitive between retailers. i doubt any ebay sellers or amazon sellers will add a margin for fraud?

i always used to think it was the credit card company that foot the bill, and they in turn would claim against their insurance. however, it would appear that the retailers are the ones who foot the bill.
mutley123/07/2020 21:39

it means as a retailer, you would lose money through no fault of your own. …it means as a retailer, you would lose money through no fault of your own. in a way they only got themselves to blame here as they sent the purchases to another address than the billing address, as i certainly never received anything from amazon market place.this is why some online retailers will not deliver items to a different address than the card registered address.


I’ve not come across shipping limitations to registered address only except for first order in the last 5 plus years.
I would be screwed as I ship stuff to family and friends all the time.
Just checked in Amazon account and have 19 addresses I’ve shipped to.
24 litres of Smirnoff vodka using subscribe & save and 12 of Gordon’s gin, in the last 10 days.
bigwheels23/07/2020 23:07

24 litres of Smirnoff vodka using subscribe & save and 12 of Gordon’s gin, …24 litres of Smirnoff vodka using subscribe & save and 12 of Gordon’s gin, in the last 10 days.


Party at yours????

mutley123/07/2020 22:58

. i haven't used that card for over a year and it has been locked away in …. i haven't used that card for over a year and it has been locked away in the drawer at home.


One of my cards got done years ago and I hadn't used it for about 3 years ish. I disputed the charges and they insisted I made the purchases until I asked them to check the last contact I made with them. It confirmed I had asked for the account to be closed, all charges were removed.

Anyway, my point is that my suspicion was that it was an employee of the cc company, the card had not seen light of day for years, there was nowhere it could of been cloned etc
bigwheels23/07/2020 23:07

I’ve not come across shipping limitations to registered address only e …I’ve not come across shipping limitations to registered address only except for first order in the last 5 plus years.I would be screwed as I ship stuff to family and friends all the time.Just checked in Amazon account and have 19 addresses I’ve shipped to.24 litres of Smirnoff vodka using subscribe & save and 12 of Gordon’s gin, in the last 10 days.


a lot of retailers do allow the shipping address to be different to the credit card registered address, but some only allow shipping to the registered address for obvious reasons.

i buy a lot of stuff to be sent to other addresses as well, so it always annoy me when this happens, but if a retailer allows shipping to another address then they will have to bear in mind the extra risk that they take. i guess they can always sue the recipient at the shipping address as they obviously stole the card!
a666andy23/07/2020 23:17

Party at yours???? One of my cards got done years ago and I hadn't …Party at yours???? One of my cards got done years ago and I hadn't used it for about 3 years ish. I disputed the charges and they insisted I made the purchases until I asked them to check the last contact I made with them. It confirmed I had asked for the account to be closed, all charges were removed.Anyway, my point is that my suspicion was that it was an employee of the cc company, the card had not seen light of day for years, there was nowhere it could of been cloned etc


luckily whenever i have disputed fraudulent transactions, they never come back with any enquiries. happened to my mum and brother as well and they never heard anything back. so it seems to me that the consumer is protected quite well and so somebody out there is paying for all this. my mum had something like £700 in fraudulent transactions.

they may keep card details for years before they use it? to make the connection harder to detect? i am sure that if they looked hard enough they will find who made the transactions and they can get them, but thieves are clever and so are not always easy to get to, once they have stolen the money.

twice i used my credit card to pay for train ticket on the train and shortly afterwards the fraudulent transactions came through. i have stopped using my credit card on the trains after that.
mutley123/07/2020 23:27

luckily whenever i have disputed fraudulent transactions, they never come …luckily whenever i have disputed fraudulent transactions, they never come back with any enquiries. happened to my mum and brother as well and they never heard anything back. so it seems to me that the consumer is protected quite well and so somebody out there is paying for all this. my mum had something like £700 in fraudulent transactions.they may keep card details for years before they use it? to make the connection harder to detect? i am sure that if they looked hard enough they will find who made the transactions and they can get them, but thieves are clever and so are not always easy to get to, once they have stolen the money.twice i used my credit card to pay for train ticket on the train and shortly afterwards the fraudulent transactions came through. i have stopped using my credit card on the trains after that.



I must admit i use PayPal as much as I can as no card details are given.
When out and about I use Google pay £759.99 today at currys.
No pin just fingerprint. Less chance or fraud.
bigwheels23/07/2020 23:32

I must admit i use PayPal as much as I can as no card details are …I must admit i use PayPal as much as I can as no card details are given.When out and about I use Google pay £759.99 today at currys.No pin just fingerprint. Less chance or fraud.


Also no section 75 protection with PayPal, Apple Pay and GPay..
MrSprkle24/07/2020 00:18

Also no section 75 protection with PayPal, Apple Pay and GPay..


"PayPal Credit" via PayPal would tick box for one element of S75-friendliness. Just sayin.
MrSprkle24/07/2020 00:18

Also no section 75 protection with PayPal, Apple Pay and GPay..


i didn't know that about Google pay. i use Google pay sometimes, but only small transactions as it is contactless. s75 wouldn't apply to snap purchases anyway?

Google pay passes the costs to my credit card, so that would be considered a credit card transaction?
MrSprkle24/07/2020 00:18

Also no section 75 protection with PayPal, Apple Pay and GPay..


Whilst not a legal authority, Google Pay and Apple Pay ticks the S75 box according to credible consumer organisation Which:
"...Does Section 75 protection apply to Apple and Google Pay?
Yes, provided the card in your virtual wallet is a credit card..."

which.co.uk/new…nd/
MrSprkle24/07/2020 00:18

Also no section 75 protection with PayPal, Apple Pay and GPay..


Apple and Google use a virtual card number tied to the source card, so sec 75 is still applicable as long as the source card is a credit card.
Chiptivo23/07/2020 22:16

If the CSC was used etc. Only the customer should know this.


Amazon don't require a security code - it's why fraud is so prevalent there. Card number and expiry date is enough for them.
Tom.Wilson24/07/2020 09:18

Amazon don't require a security code - it's why fraud is so prevalent …Amazon don't require a security code - it's why fraud is so prevalent there. Card number and expiry date is enough for them.


Prevalent? I would love to see the data comparing Amazon with other sites. My friends who work in credit card fraud analytics tell me that Amazon has very robust fraud prevention mechanisms compared to most other sites because of their global spread and crazy volumes. Obviously, this doesn't mean there is no fraud.
Tom.Wilson24/07/2020 09:18

Amazon don't require a security code - it's why fraud is so prevalent …Amazon don't require a security code - it's why fraud is so prevalent there. Card number and expiry date is enough for them.


They do require the CSC to add your card to your account.
They also have good session and IP based fraud prevention.
Logging in via another machine and IP requires password and text/app based auth.
Edited by: "Chiptivo" 24th Jul
41477415-3xDK7.jpg
Chiptivo24/07/2020 10:06

They do require the CSC to add your card to your account. They also have …They do require the CSC to add your card to your account. They also have good session and IP based fraud prevention. Logging in via another machine and IP requires password and text/app based auth.


Do they really...............
bozo00724/07/2020 09:55

Prevalent? I would love to see the data comparing Amazon with other sites. …Prevalent? I would love to see the data comparing Amazon with other sites. My friends who work in credit card fraud analytics tell me that Amazon has very robust fraud prevention mechanisms compared to most other sites because of their global spread and crazy volumes. Obviously, this doesn't mean there is no fraud.


Hah. Robust my backside.

A card I had linked to my account was used on another account that wasn't in my name, and the address used was in the south of the country (I'm in the north!)

No security code. No billing address check. No 3D Secure.

Where's the sophistication? Where's the robustness?
Chiptivo24/07/2020 10:10

Yes.. Go the next step.


Next step asked me to pick billing address. Step after that was confirmation:

41477477-lzVft.jpg
I've linked a number of cards to my Amazon account and I have NEVER been asked to supply a security code. Have a quick Google and you'll see this is common for Amazon.
Tom.Wilson24/07/2020 10:15

Next step asked me to pick billing address. Step after that was …Next step asked me to pick billing address. Step after that was confirmation:[Image] I've linked a number of cards to my Amazon account and I have NEVER been asked to supply a security code. Have a quick Google and you'll see this is common for Amazon.


I'm happy to admit I am wrong.
Chiptivo24/07/2020 10:20

I'm happy to admit I am wrong.


It's surprising isn't it? A company so large doesn't require it.

I heard the reason behind it was they considered a simpler customer experience was worth more than the potential losses from fraud.
Tom.Wilson24/07/2020 09:18

Amazon don't require a security code - it's why fraud is so prevalent …Amazon don't require a security code - it's why fraud is so prevalent there. Card number and expiry date is enough for them.


i noticed this on my amazon account as it just uses my stored credit card as payment and never asks me for the security code ever!!

i have my card stored with sainsburys and tesco (my main one, not this one) and every now and then it asks for the security code again. but i never seem to get this on amazon, which does seem a bit slack but i am guessing that is because it is sent to the registered address so they know it is unlikely someone who has stolen the credit card details.
mutley124/07/2020 10:28

i noticed this on my amazon account as it just uses my stored credit card …i noticed this on my amazon account as it just uses my stored credit card as payment and never asks me for the security code ever!! i have my card stored with sainsburys and tesco (my main one, not this one) and every now and then it asks for the security code again. but i never seem to get this on amazon, which does seem a bit slack but i am guessing that is because it is sent to the registered address so they know it is unlikely someone who has stolen the credit card details.


Supposedly they have enough data to minimise losses without requiring it.

My issue where someone used my card (see above) did seem a little... uh... negligent on Amazon's part, but I suppose it could have been an isolated case..
I always just assumed since Amazon was so huge the software was much smarter, running it through some fraud detection model that spikes / notices things like, new location, new device, checks that billing address matches delivery address, buying trends (is this a 'normal' purchase for you based on your history) just 100 things all working in concert for them to be able to say: 'Oh this is "probably" you' or 'Hmmmmm wait a minute!'
Tom.Wilson24/07/2020 10:32

Supposedly they have enough data to minimise losses without requiring …Supposedly they have enough data to minimise losses without requiring it.My issue where someone used my card (see above) did seem a little... uh... negligent on Amazon's part, but I suppose it could have been an isolated case..


i opened a new amazon account for my dad a couple of weeks ago, and if i remember correctly, it asks for the billing address, that is, it asks if i wanted to use the delivery address as the billing address or to use a different billing address.

it certainly never asked me for the security code on the credit card, which surprised me as i didn't think they would be able to get the money from the credit card provider without the security code, but obviously they did as it got taken from the credit card.

seems far too relaxed, which explains why the fraudulent activities had taken place on my other credit card. it must be a popular hunting ground for thieves, aiming particularly at amazon market sellers, who tends to be your small business, like your ebay seller, without any sophisticated means of investigating fraud.

i would be interested to know if amazon protects those sellers from fraud like this. they should do, in my opinion, as their security system is so laxed.
mutley124/07/2020 11:16

i opened a new amazon account for my dad a couple of weeks ago, and if i …i opened a new amazon account for my dad a couple of weeks ago, and if i remember correctly, it asks for the billing address, that is, it asks if i wanted to use the delivery address as the billing address or to use a different billing address.it certainly never asked me for the security code on the credit card, which surprised me as i didn't think they would be able to get the money from the credit card provider without the security code, but obviously they did as it got taken from the credit card.seems far too relaxed, which explains why the fraudulent activities had taken place on my other credit card. it must be a popular hunting ground for thieves, aiming particularly at amazon market sellers, who tends to be your small business, like your ebay seller, without any sophisticated means of investigating fraud.i would be interested to know if amazon protects those sellers from fraud like this. they should do, in my opinion, as their security system is so laxed.


I believe Amazon protects sellers from "unauthorized use" chargebacks, but I could be wrong.
Chiptivo24/07/2020 10:06

They do require the CSC to add your card to your account. They also have …They do require the CSC to add your card to your account. They also have good session and IP based fraud prevention. Logging in via another machine and IP requires password and text/app based auth.


this IP check doesn't help if the fraudster sets up a new account with amazon and use my credit card to pay as the IP would be theirs and not mine that amazon would be referencing in their checks.
mutley124/07/2020 11:49

this IP check doesn't help if the fraudster sets up a new account with …this IP check doesn't help if the fraudster sets up a new account with amazon and use my credit card to pay as the IP would be theirs and not mine that amazon would be referencing in their checks.


Which is good for your case.

They will cross reference that IP against all activity they have in their Data.
If it matches other activity they will drill down in that activity to see if it gives another customers details, like another Amazon customer, online fraud is relatively easy to investigate if the right systems are in place.

Most of it ends in a foreign country / dead end.
It's the amateur stuff / opportunists that get found out.
The IT paper trail stands up pretty good in court as well.
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