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    Cruise holidays to Haiti - Ethical or not?

    Could you lie on a beach while millions of people are in desperate need less than 100 miles away?

    The pro for it would be that cruises bring tourism to the country, but hardly a scratch.
    Of course there is the fact that it wouldn't be ethically right to just lie there doing nothing though.

    Link to the story in the first post.

    57 Comments

    Original Poster

    Banned

    Well I wouldn´t do it but is distance really the issue?

    Changing the distance to 500 miles doesn´t make any difference.

    We are all sat in our comfortable homes watching the story develop and most of the readers of this thread will not have donated anything to the cause. Just as uncaring as sat on a beach a 100 miles away sipping a Pina Colada,

    Too risky, still aftershocks..could set off a tidal wave

    Banned

    Would the OP prefer that tourism to Haiti is cancelled and all revenues from it lost?

    Is that a good idea?

    If they can get tourists on and off a man made beach so easily, why can't they get supplies in and out by the same route. One of the biggest issues has been the logistics of getting supplies to where it is needed.

    The PR guff spouted by Royal Caribbean is total fluff. Cancel the cruise and comandeer the ship to fill up and get supplies in, even just one trip would have given them much better publicity than they ever could wish for.

    You can just imagine the holiday pics..."this is where went to do our bit and support Haiti", like a badge of honour, they might even be able to find a few local dugout victims with some scars and bandages for them to see, what a highlight that would be tro make them feel happier about being there.

    Tourism is vital to these places but this is not the time or place to put profit first which is what they are doing, Royal Caribbean own the beach. Trickle down to the local economy, there is no local economy yet!

    If the tourists give locals £100 in their hand, it is is of little use when there are no shops, food or supplies.
    NO. profit comes first as usual, morals don't come into it.

    Bully;7620149

    Too risky, still aftershocks..could set off a tidal wave



    You forgot this bit....:roll:


    are you serious?

    Brazilian slums are right next to Brazilian 'Beverley Hills'. It doesnt matter at the end of the day, theres always someone nearby suffering.

    skintzimbo;7620390

    Brazilian slums are right next to Brazilian 'Beverley Hills'. It doesnt … Brazilian slums are right next to Brazilian 'Beverley Hills'. It doesnt matter at the end of the day, theres always someone nearby suffering.



    Then nobody would ever go anywhere on that logic.

    We are not talking about general social conditions, We are in the situation of total devastation and extreme suffering. :whistling: A bit different. On the news the other day, a doctor who was interviewed had just had to amputate the leg of a toddler who was on the verge of septicaemia from gangrene, no anaesthetic or pain relief available.
    In the next few weeks, they won't be top of the headlines anymore and they will have to get on with their recovery. But right now they need immediate help that will ease the terrible situations. I cannot do anything, only give money but am sure as hell not going to live in decadence within spitting distance of such horrors.

    iglimpse;7620213

    If they can get tourists on and off a man made beach so easily, why can't … If they can get tourists on and off a man made beach so easily, why can't they get supplies in and out by the same route. One of the biggest issues has been the logistics of getting supplies to where it is needed. The PR guff spouted by Royal Caribbean is total fluff. Cancel the cruise and comandeer the ship to fill up and get supplies in, even just one trip would have given them much better publicity than they ever could wish for.You can just imagine the holiday pics..."this is where went to do our bit and support Haiti", like a badge of honour, they might even be able to find a few local dugout victims with some scars and bandages for them to see, what a highlight that would be tro make them feel happier about being there. Tourism is vital to these places but this is not the time or place to put profit first which is what they are doing, Royal Caribbean own the beach. Trickle down to the local economy, there is no local economy yet!If the tourists give locals £100 in their hand, it is is of little use when there are no shops, food or supplies. NO. profit comes first as usual, morals don't come into it.



    iglimpse;7621536

    Then nobody would ever go anywhere on that logic.We are not talking about … Then nobody would ever go anywhere on that logic.We are not talking about general social conditions, We are in the situation of total devastation and extreme suffering. :whistling: A bit different. On the news the other day, a doctor who was interviewed had just had to amputate the leg of a toddler who was on the verge of septicaemia from gangrene, no anaesthetic or pain relief available.In the next few weeks, they won't be top of the headlines anymore and they will have to get on with their recovery. But right now they need immediate help that will ease the terrible situations. I cannot do anything, only give money but am sure as hell not going to live in decadence within spitting distance of such horrors.



    Must say you make sense. I was reading similar stuff the other day and thought to myself "well if the cruise ships are providing employment thats a good thing so maybe on balance let the cruises continue". But your point about using the ships for supplies makes more sense. I know what the likely response may be from many members but I keep thinking the response would have been quicker/more effective if it had been a different area being hit such as a more white island. Whilst fully understanding the devastion that is impeeding recovery I feel there is a large degree of foot dragging going on under the heading of security concerns which would probably not be mentioned if the population make up was different.. Just my thoughts.

    Banned

    WoolyM;7622576

    Must say you make sense. I was reading similar stuff the other day and … Must say you make sense. I was reading similar stuff the other day and thought to myself "well if the cruise ships are providing employment thats a good thing so maybe on balance let the cruises continue". But your point about using the ships for supplies makes more sense. I know what the likely response may be from many members but I keep thinking the response would have been quicker/more effective if it had been a different area being hit such as a more white island. Whilst fully understanding the devastion that is impeeding recovery I feel there is a large degree of foot dragging going on under the heading of security concerns which would probably not be mentioned if the population make up was different.. Just my thoughts.



    Why bring race into this? Trump card? I'm quite sure the organisations are doing all they can to help and they don't blink an eye at the colour of their skin. But thanks for your input.

    I'd take the cruise, i'm on holiday a country's problems aren't my concern

    guv;7622657

    Why bring race into this? Trump card? I'm quite sure the organisations … Why bring race into this? Trump card? I'm quite sure the organisations are doing all they can to help and they don't blink an eye at the colour of their skin. But thanks for your input.



    As I said, "just my thoughts". I am not attempting to play any sort of card. Its just a niggle I felt that I cant shake off. Sorry if the thought of such a thing disturbs you or any others.

    To me it makes sense that if any people are deprived of food/water/medical requirements (basic essentials for living) for long enough they will get desperate enough to fight for the very essentials. That does not make them a security concern. It just makes it more imperative to act with all available speed.

    I am a bit surprised that there has not been a flotilla of boats making there way to the island with supplies to help. Port or no port being operational, if there was a similar disaster in the channel islands I cant imagine that there would be such delays.

    I say again. Just my thoughts......

    Banned

    WoolyM;7622822

    As I said, "just my thoughts". I am not attempting to play any sort of … As I said, "just my thoughts". I am not attempting to play any sort of card. Its just a niggle I felt that I cant shake off. Sorry if the thought of such a thing disturbs you or any others. To me it makes sense that if any people are deprived of food/water/medical requirements (basic essentials for living) for long enough they will get desperate enough to fight for the very essentials. That does not make them a security concern. It just makes it more imperative to act with all available speed. I am a bit surprised that there has not been a flotilla of boats making there way to the island with supplies to help. Port or no port being operational, if there was a similar disaster in the channel islands I cant imagine that there would be such delays. I say again. Just my thoughts......



    I'm quite sure the reaction to something within the UK for an Area such as say Brixton, would be no different to Exeter. Colour and race doesnt come into it. If this had happened in a White third world country (and they do exist) there would be zero difference to the reaction.

    Maybe that little flotilla of boats are out fishing.... just like you.

    Original Poster

    toshapetriji;7620147

    Well I wouldn´t do it but is distance really the issue? Changing the … Well I wouldn´t do it but is distance really the issue? Changing the distance to 500 miles doesn´t make any difference. We are all sat in our comfortable homes watching the story develop and most of the readers of this thread will not have donated anything to the cause. Just as uncaring as sat on a beach a 100 miles away sipping a Pina Colada,



    Well the distance IS an issue. If you are 10,000 miles away in the UK, then it's impossible to help physically.
    If you are just down the road from the major disaster, it's very possible to help the people in need.

    guv;7620209

    Would the OP prefer that tourism to Haiti is cancelled and all revenues … Would the OP prefer that tourism to Haiti is cancelled and all revenues from it lost?Is that a good idea?



    The revenue from cruises to Haiti is extremely little. It won't affect anything.

    iglimpse;7620213

    If they can get tourists on and off a man made beach so easily, why can't … If they can get tourists on and off a man made beach so easily, why can't they get supplies in and out by the same route. One of the biggest issues has been the logistics of getting supplies to where it is needed. The PR guff spouted by Royal Caribbean is total fluff. Cancel the cruise and comandeer the ship to fill up and get supplies in, even just one trip would have given them much better publicity than they ever could wish for.You can just imagine the holiday pics..."this is where went to do our bit and support Haiti", like a badge of honour, they might even be able to find a few local dugout victims with some scars and bandages for them to see, what a highlight that would be tro make them feel happier about being there. Tourism is vital to these places but this is not the time or place to put profit first which is what they are doing, Royal Caribbean own the beach. Trickle down to the local economy, there is no local economy yet!If the tourists give locals £100 in their hand, it is is of little use when there are no shops, food or supplies. NO. profit comes first as usual, morals don't come into it.



    Totally agree with you here :thumbsup:

    Charity begins at home. The amount of people in the UK that live in poverty and people moaning about the elderly not being able to afford gas bills. Can we not help these people out first?

    Original Poster

    davidn84;7623975

    Charity begins at home. The amount of people in the UK that live in … Charity begins at home. The amount of people in the UK that live in poverty and people moaning about the elderly not being able to afford gas bills. Can we not help these people out first?



    So you are saying that British people are in more need of help than Haitians?
    Are British people more deserving of aid then any other person of flesh and blood around the world?

    DarkKnight;7624030

    So you are saying that British people are in more need of help than … So you are saying that British people are in more need of help than Haitians?Are British people more deserving of aid then any other person of flesh and blood around the world?



    No...but i'm asking do we live in Haiti? is that physically affecting us? Is that going to physically affect us in the future? When we have flash floods, do the economic giants of the world give us aid? I've never seen another country host a 'red nose day'/'children in need' night for the UK?

    And yet...everytime theres a natural disaster somewhere we try and give aid to these people.

    Banned

    I'd take the cruise, i'm on holiday a country's problems aren't my concern




    Nice

    Alfonse;7622782

    I'd take the cruise, i'm on holiday a country's problems aren't my concern



    lol...i like your logic...if i went to America you think id care that 75% of them are going to die before they hit 50 due to obesity? Nope...:whistling:

    [COLOR="Silver"]Disclaimer: This was meant light heartedly, not as a serious point as Haiti was a naturally occurring issue, unlike the fat Americans who have caused it themselves.[/COLOR]

    Original Poster

    davidn84;7624056

    No...but i'm asking do we live in Haiti? is that physically affecting us? … No...but i'm asking do we live in Haiti? is that physically affecting us? Is that going to physically affect us in the future? When we have flash floods, do the economic giants of the world give us aid? I've never seen another country host a 'red nose day'/'children in need' night for the UK?



    Its not affecting us, but it's affecting others.
    WTF are you talking about countries giving us aid for floods? That's a tiny problem, and a few people get wet, you don't see thousands dead or cities destroyed.
    And YES WE DO have days of charity for the UK, you being a British citizen should know this.
    Such a ridiculous post from yet ANOTHER person.

    And yet...everytime theres a natural disaster somewhere we try and give … And yet...everytime theres a natural disaster somewhere we try and give aid to these people.



    Because we actually have money...duh

    awoodhall2003;7624112

    lol...i like your logic...if i went to America you think id care that 75% … lol...i like your logic...if i went to America you think id care that 75% of them are going to die before they hit 50 due to obesity? Nope...:whistling:[COLOR="Silver"]Disclaimer: This was meant light heartedly, not as a serious point as Haiti was a naturally occurring issue, unlike the fat Americans who have caused it themselves.[/COLOR]



    exactly, what you gonna do, take a cruise for your holiday and at every country stop over find the latest humanitarian crisis/event and roll up your sleeves, yeah right!

    But i still help out at my local Big Issue office on sat mornings

    Original Poster

    Alfonse;7624205

    exactly, what you gonna do, take a cruise for your holiday and at every … exactly, what you gonna do, take a cruise for your holiday and at every country stop over find the latest humanitarian crisis/event and roll up your sleeves, yeah right!But i still help out at my local Big Issue office on sat mornings



    Cmon get serious, not every country has just had a devastating earthquake like Haiti recently.

    DarkKnight;7624264

    Cmon get serious, not every country has just had a devastating earthquake … Cmon get serious, not every country has just had a devastating earthquake like Haiti recently.



    I am serious, if you are that SERIOUS stop posting rubbish on here and get your bum over to Haiti then...........................................

    DarkKnight;7624185

    Its not affecting us, but it's affecting others.WTF are you talking about … Its not affecting us, but it's affecting others.WTF are you talking about countries giving us aid for floods? That's a tiny problem, and a few people get wet, you don't see thousands dead or cities destroyed.And YES WE DO have days of charity for the UK, you being a British citizen should know this.Such a ridiculous post from yet ANOTHER person.Because we actually have money...duh



    Yes we have charity days for us...no other countries do. And i wasnt talking about floods themselves...just any other issue that affects us, no-one comes running to our aid.

    But if we keep giving money to other people then we wont have money when something really bad affects the UK.

    Original Poster

    Alfonse;7624290

    I am serious, i f you are that SERIOUS stop posting rubbish on here and … I am serious, i f you are that SERIOUS stop posting rubbish on here and get you bum over to Haiti then...........................................



    I would help over in Haiti if i could. Unfortunately i can't as i have no means of geting there.

    davidn84;7624294

    Yes we have charity days for us...no other countries do. And i wasnt … Yes we have charity days for us...no other countries do. And i wasnt talking about floods themselves...just any other issue that affects us, no-one comes running to our aid.




    Haha, please don't tell me you are serious? you got to be joking right?
    Why should other countries help us? we don't have natural disasters. We don't have major earthquakes, we don't have tsunami's, we don't have hurricanes, we don't have extreme poverty, we don't have widespread disease.
    We are one of the most well-off countries in the world. We don't need aid. But Haiti being the poorest country in the western hemisphere does. We are probabably bottom of the list of the all countries that require aid

    Please read up on Geography of the UK if you don't understand any of the above.

    Original Poster

    Alfonse;7624386

    I'm sure they would accept volunteers in any of the international … I'm sure they would accept volunteers in any of the international charities that are helping there, what you waiting for......... http://www.unicef.org/about/employ/index_volunteers.htmlhttp://gvnfoundation.org/programs/emergency_relief/Haiti/?gclid=CJ7WlqetuJ8CFWlr4wodtye20Ahttp://www.petergreenberg.com/2010/01/13/how-to-help-haiti-volunteer-opportunities-and-global-relief-efforts/http://www.volunteerabroad.com/Haiti.cfm:whistling:



    After having a read of the links, it seems they want people who are skilled in certains areas which i am not skilled in.
    Try and stay on-topic though.

    You can't stop people carrying on with their lives everytime their is a major disaster. People have probably saved their money to go on a cruise........they shouldn't be made to feel like they are not allowed to enjoy themselves.

    Disasters happen and people are helping. The whole world can't down tools to do something else everything would collapse.

    Syzable;7624488

    You can't stop people carrying on with their lives everytime their is a … You can't stop people carrying on with their lives everytime their is a major disaster. People have probably saved their money to go on a cruise........they shouldn't be made to feel like they are not allowed to enjoy themselves.Disasters happen and people are helping. The whole world can't down tools to do something else everything would collapse.



    Spot on :thumbsup:

    Why

    Where did anyone suggest the world should stop and help Haiti. My earlier post said things move on. The whole point of this post was could you lie on a beach when less than 100 miles away, there was utter devastation?

    Please someone name me a disaster here in UK, where people could not get any access to medical help, food AND the whole infrastructure of the country no longer exists. :roll:

    Can we not just recognise that this is a unique situation, cruise ships have taken a profit before moral approach. It is the equivalent of rubber neckers and I find it repugnant. Most of cannot do anything but just don't rub sand in their eyes, trying to make yourself feel better because you are contributing to the local economy :whistling:

    Banned

    Could you lie on a beach while millions of people are in desperate need … Could you lie on a beach while millions of people are in desperate need less than 100 miles away?



    Yes I could.

    Original Poster

    vibeone;7626439

    Yes I could.



    We all knew that Vibeone thinks of himself so you really didn't need to answer.

    What this boils down to here is the inability of a certain type of people not being forward thinking. After many years of independance they squandered all the money and didn't invest in the buildings and housing and countries infrastructure. I'm from Africa, it's nothing new. Send more aid please, the palace needs rebuilding.

    DarkKnight;7624481

    After having a read of the links, it seems they want people who are … After having a read of the links, it seems they want people who are skilled in certains areas which i am not skilled in.Try and stay on-topic though.



    well whatta surprise, a chance to put your money where your mouth is and you fail to actually show some grit and help the people you said you would ...........

    DarkKnight;7624481

    I would help over in Haiti if i could. Unfortunately i can't as i have no … I would help over in Haiti if i could. Unfortunately i can't as i have no means of getting there.



    absolute case of loserville

    would be justice for a tsunami to hi it

    Banned

    DarkKnight;7628578

    We all knew that Vibeone thinks of himself so you really didn't need to … We all knew that Vibeone thinks of himself so you really didn't need to answer.



    Yes, funny how that is the case, yet by your own admission a few posts up, neither of us have bothered to do anything to help. Almost like you just want attention, rather than actually help anyone.

    rugger-tyke;7648404

    would be justice for a tsunami to hi it



    I LOL'd. You attempted to robustly state your opinion, yet just came across as a really offensive *****.

    Syzable;7624488

    You can't stop people carrying on with their lives everytime their is a … You can't stop people carrying on with their lives everytime their is a major disaster. People have probably saved their money to go on a cruise........they shouldn't be made to feel like they are not allowed to enjoy themselves.Disasters happen and people are helping. The whole world can't down tools to do something else everything would collapse.



    100% Agreed.

    Original Poster

    Alfonse;7648304

    well whatta surprise, a chance to put your money where your mouth is and … well whatta surprise, a chance to put your money where your mouth is and you fail to actually show some grit and help the people you said you would ...........absolute case of loserville



    If you failed to read the couple of lines i wrote to you. They want people like nurses, builders etc
    I am not qualified or experienced in roles such as those.
    Do you not understand the words i'm writing or something.
    Most charities say the best thing to do is to send money, which i agree is the best thing to do if you are a generous and caring person.
    You don't NEED to be helping in the said country. As long as you are helping in some way then that's what matters.

    vibeone;7648840

    Yes, funny how that is the case, yet by your own admission a few posts … Yes, funny how that is the case, yet by your own admission a few posts up, neither of us have bothered to do anything to help. Almost like you just want attention, rather than actually help anyone.



    I don't want or need attention.
    This is a shopping deal forum. I couldn't care what anyone thinks on here.

    DarkKnight;7649156

    I don't want or need attention.This is a shopping deal forum. I couldn't … I don't want or need attention.This is a shopping deal forum. I couldn't care what anyone thinks on here.



    you do care othewise you wouldn't keep replying, keep getting angry D;K

    DarkKnight;7649156

    I would help over in Haiti if i could. Unfortunately i can't as i have no … I would help over in Haiti if i could. Unfortunately i can't as i have no means of geting there.



    i read your words, your only reason for not going is above, but like i said you're justa yellow belly, lots of words, no substance

    Original Poster

    Alfonse;7649186

    you do care othewise you wouldn't keep replying, keep getting angry D;K



    I'm not getting angry :?
    Like i just said, this is a shopping deal forum, i don't expect many of the members here to be of a high intellect.
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