Decorator advice

31
Posted 16th Feb
Had a painter decorator in to line our hallway with lining paper as it's old plaster. Really don't think he's doing great, but so ignorant! He's left the paper sticking out at the corners, some strips are overlayed whereas others there are gaps... photos attached. should I get rid of him?
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I'm a painter and decorator.
Get him to f***.
What a mess.
You don't trim at a later date because the paper will be dry and it won't trim properly.
You don't overlap anything like picture 1 + 4.
You trim right up to the edges. You don't leave it too short like picture 2.
Picture 3 - gaps that wide can be filled with filler but you shouldn't have to.
My trades test any gap that was over 2mm was a fail. 1-2mm gap for expansion when the paper is drying + the paint fills it in/it's fine for paper over it.
If he has overlapped the paper this can be fixed by sanding the overlap out but again - should not have to!

Don't give him any money.
That is a riot and if he is qualified then he looks to be one of those painters without the decorator part.

Absolute con-man. Boils my blood when people like this say they're a painter and decorator. Makes tradespeople like myself look bad and out of work.

Next time OP, get a couple of different quotes and don't go with the cheapest. Real skills cost ££££.
A con-man with no skills doesn't and then you're left with that riot.
Edited by: "Cloeeez" 16th Feb
31 Comments
It’s one of those things where anyone thinks they can decorate. To be honest I could do better than that so if I was paying someone I would definitely expect better
Yeah thats not good, the gaps at the joints are not that much of a problem as it can always be filled before painting but the cutting around edges looks poor. He might not have finished yet though and he may go round at the end to trim everything again to tidy it all up.
Bobster-cyw16/02/2020 11:54

It’s one of those things where anyone thinks they can decorate. To be h …It’s one of those things where anyone thinks they can decorate. To be honest I could do better than that so if I was paying someone I would definitely expect better


He's advertising as a qualified decorator but yeah I'm pretty sure we'd have done better. Just wanted to reassure myself it's not some new method that will end up looking great...... Gonna have to tell him straight to get lost i think!
mooruk16/02/2020 11:59

He's advertising as a qualified decorator but yeah I'm pretty sure we'd …He's advertising as a qualified decorator but yeah I'm pretty sure we'd have done better. Just wanted to reassure myself it's not some new method that will end up looking great...... Gonna have to tell him straight to get lost i think!


Yep sack him.
tje197816/02/2020 11:59

Yeah thats not good, the gaps at the joints are not that much of a problem …Yeah thats not good, the gaps at the joints are not that much of a problem as it can always be filled before painting but the cutting around edges looks poor. He might not have finished yet though and he may go round at the end to trim everything again to tidy it all up.


Some of the joints are on top of each other tho, can't see how that can be rectified?
mooruk16/02/2020 12:00

Some of the joints are on top of each other tho, can't see how that can be …Some of the joints are on top of each other tho, can't see how that can be rectified?


Yeah overlapped joints is a big no no, i was trying to give him benefit of the doubt if your not happy then you need to let him know.
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deleted2430337
do you really need to ask??
i am not a decorator and i try my best to do diy but i am not very good at it. however, even i could do a better job than that!

he can't even cut straight as some of the edges are jagged in the photo unless they are the existing paper. overlapping lining paper is just a joke. you will end up with it looking like an elastoplast job!

your difficulty will be the row you are going to have now with him and not pay him. tradespeople can get very nasty if you don't pay them.
mutley116/02/2020 12:14

i am not a decorator and i try my best to do diy but i am not very good at …i am not a decorator and i try my best to do diy but i am not very good at it. however, even i could do a better job than that!he can't even cut straight as some of the edges are jagged in the photo unless they are the existing paper. overlapping lining paper is just a joke. you will end up with it looking like an elastoplast job!your difficulty will be the row you are going to have now with him and not pay him. tradespeople can get very nasty if you don't pay them.


That's the worry...
mooruk16/02/2020 12:48

That's the worry...


your best way of dealing with this is to try to control the conversation and stay calm. state that you are not happy with the quality of the work done as it is extremely poor. you are very disappointed as you had employed him as he had advertised as a professional decorator and so you had taken that on trust but the quality of work is very poor.

you will now have to find someone to rectify the job so that will cost you money and that is really bad. he may be less vicious if you say that he has actually incurred costs as you will now have to find someone to put right his botched job.
mutley116/02/2020 13:01

your best way of dealing with this is to try to control the conversation …your best way of dealing with this is to try to control the conversation and stay calm. state that you are not happy with the quality of the work done as it is extremely poor. you are very disappointed as you had employed him as he had advertised as a professional decorator and so you had taken that on trust but the quality of work is very poor.you will now have to find someone to rectify the job so that will cost you money and that is really bad. he may be less vicious if you say that he has actually incurred costs as you will now have to find someone to put right his botched job.


+1 maybe get a quote from another decorator to rectify and they could advise what is wrong so it’s not just your view vs his?

good luck!
I'm a painter and decorator.
Get him to f***.
What a mess.
You don't trim at a later date because the paper will be dry and it won't trim properly.
You don't overlap anything like picture 1 + 4.
You trim right up to the edges. You don't leave it too short like picture 2.
Picture 3 - gaps that wide can be filled with filler but you shouldn't have to.
My trades test any gap that was over 2mm was a fail. 1-2mm gap for expansion when the paper is drying + the paint fills it in/it's fine for paper over it.
If he has overlapped the paper this can be fixed by sanding the overlap out but again - should not have to!

Don't give him any money.
That is a riot and if he is qualified then he looks to be one of those painters without the decorator part.

Absolute con-man. Boils my blood when people like this say they're a painter and decorator. Makes tradespeople like myself look bad and out of work.

Next time OP, get a couple of different quotes and don't go with the cheapest. Real skills cost ££££.
A con-man with no skills doesn't and then you're left with that riot.
Edited by: "Cloeeez" 16th Feb
He’s done u up like a kipper
Cloeeez16/02/2020 13:07

I'm a painter and decorator.Get him to f***.What a mess.You don't trim at …I'm a painter and decorator.Get him to f***.What a mess.You don't trim at a later date because the paper will be dry and it won't trim properly.You don't overlap anything like picture 1 + 4.You trim right up to the edges. You don't leave it too short like picture 2.Picture 3 - gaps that wide can be filled with filler but you shouldn't have to.My trades test any gap that was over 2mm was a fail. 1-2mm gap for expansion when the paper is drying + the paint fills it in/it's fine for paper over it.If he has overlapped the paper this can be fixed by sanding the overlap out but again - should not have to!Don't give him any money.That is a riot and if he is qualified then he looks to be one of those painters without the decorator part.Absolute con-man. Boils my blood when people like this say they're a painter and decorator. Makes tradespeople like myself look bad and out of work.Next time OP, get a couple of different quotes and don't go with the cheapest. Real skills cost ££££.A con-man with no skills doesn't and then you're left with that riot.


i sometimes end up with issues from tradespeople when they do a poor job. i often choose the cheapest quote and take a gamble and it pays off 90% of the time but the other 10% of the time, i end up with a cowboy.

i have so many jobs done that paying top dollar means that i would be forking out a lot of money and even when i do choose a quote that is more expensive than another, that still doesn't guarantee that the job will be of any better quality.

this is why i often ask on here how much or how long a job would take so i can assess if the quote i have is of value or just a cowboy quote and is completely unachievable.

i have had very good work from tradespeople who have quoted very cheaply from other people, sometimes 50% lower so it very much depends on whether you can work out if they could do the work in the time that they have allocated for it.

always good to employ someone online with lots of reviews. i know they can be faked but often they serve as a good guide on the quality of the work.
Thing is this guy has a shed load of excellent reviews on checkatrade etc...ugh
mooruk16/02/2020 13:47

Thing is this guy has a shed load of excellent reviews on checkatrade …Thing is this guy has a shed load of excellent reviews on checkatrade etc...ugh


....and maybe a garage load of bad reviews that are not being shown
mutley116/02/2020 13:42

i sometimes end up with issues from tradespeople when they do a poor job. …i sometimes end up with issues from tradespeople when they do a poor job. i often choose the cheapest quote and take a gamble and it pays off 90% of the time but the other 10% of the time, i end up with a cowboy.i have so many jobs done that paying top dollar means that i would be forking out a lot of money and even when i do choose a quote that is more expensive than another, that still doesn't guarantee that the job will be of any better quality.this is why i often ask on here how much or how long a job would take so i can assess if the quote i have is of value or just a cowboy quote and is completely unachievable.i have had very good work from tradespeople who have quoted very cheaply from other people, sometimes 50% lower so it very much depends on whether you can work out if they could do the work in the time that they have allocated for it.always good to employ someone online with lots of reviews. i know they can be faked but often they serve as a good guide on the quality of the work.


It depends on peoples circumstances.
I'm currently in the middle of picking out people to do a driveway for me and I am 100% not going with the cheapest quote as I have two drains and if weight distribution in future bevels it then it has to be fixed. I want a reputable company I can chase to fix it.
Cheapest people who do driveways (we all know who they are) have a rep for putting tarmac over grass.

A lot of tradespeople go down the cash route and yeah sometimes it works out. But you could end up with every job not working out and having to pay the price you should of in the first place on top of what you've already paid. It is just your luck.
Trying to get back untaxed, not through the books cash you've paid a dodgey tradesperson is like catching a rainbow coloured unicorn.
It isn't worth the risk in my opinion. Especially not with electrics or plumbing.
mooruk16/02/2020 13:47

Thing is this guy has a shed load of excellent reviews on checkatrade …Thing is this guy has a shed load of excellent reviews on checkatrade etc...ugh


You get different types of painter and decorators. I trained with a decent company so I have done painting, wallpapering and ames taping.
I do all 3 of those things regularly which keeps me up to speed.
However I know guys who have 90% of their career only done painting, the other 10% papering. You get the gist.
This guy may have only painted these other houses and he may well be good at that aspect just his wallpapering is balls so he maybe rarely does it.
Edited by: "Cloeeez" 16th Feb
Cloeeez16/02/2020 14:05

It depends on peoples circumstances.I'm currently in the middle of picking …It depends on peoples circumstances.I'm currently in the middle of picking out people to do a driveway for me and I am 100% not going with the cheapest quote as I have two drains and if weight distribution in future bevels it then it has to be fixed. I want a reputable company I can chase to fix it.Cheapest people who do driveways (we all know who they are) have a rep for putting tarmac over grass.A lot of tradespeople go down the cash route and yeah sometimes it works out. But you could end up with every job not working out and having to pay the price you should of in the first place on top of what you've already paid. It is just your luck. Trying to get back untaxed, not through the books cash you've paid a dodgey tradesperson is like catching a rainbow coloured unicorn. It isn't worth the risk in my opinion. Especially not with electrics or plumbing.


i don't find cash payment to be an issue as they can still give you an invoice or i get them to sign a receipt that i have written up to describe the job, the address of the job, the date and the cash received from me.

traders who ask for cash payment aren't always unreliable. they may not declare the tax but that doesn't mean they will not do a good job. they can sometimes ask for cash payment as this means they get the payment straightaway rather than wait for you to make a payment to their bank.

i often posts on here to understand a job and some people criticise why i do so and why don't i just ask the tradespeople for a quote, but what they fail to understand is that the person giving you the quote will not be independent and they may take short cuts or not even know the best method to go about something, so it is always better to do your own independent research on a job so that you understand what needs to be done and can make an assessment when you do get a quote through as to whether it is a feasible quote.

i sometimes state the actual way i want the job to be done as there can be more than one way to get a job done but the best way may not be the cheapest.

for a driveway the depth of the foundation is important so they need to put in proper foundation otherwise the driveway will get damaged. the depth of the foundation can affect the cost quite a bit.
Cloeeez16/02/2020 14:08

You get different types of painter and decorators. I trained with a decent …You get different types of painter and decorators. I trained with a decent company so I have done painting, wallpapering and ames taping.I do all 3 of those things regularly which keeps me up to speed.However I know guys who have 90% of their career only done painting, the other 10% papering. You get the gist.This guy may have only painted these other houses and he may well be good at that aspect just his wallpapering is balls so he maybe rarely does it.


wall papering is a different art to painting and yes, someone may be very good at painting but be useless at wall papering if they have not done it before. it is very difficult to wall paper if you haven't been trained to do so. it is not just simply sticking a piece of paper onto a wall, it is a very fine technique to get it done.

i have done a little bit of wall papering and i really suck at it, lol but at least i can cut in a straight line!
mutley116/02/2020 14:19

i don't find cash payment to be an issue as they can still give you an …i don't find cash payment to be an issue as they can still give you an invoice or i get them to sign a receipt that i have written up to describe the job, the address of the job, the date and the cash received from me.traders who ask for cash payment aren't always unreliable. they may not declare the tax but that doesn't mean they will not do a good job. they can sometimes ask for cash payment as this means they get the payment straightaway rather than wait for you to make a payment to their bank.i often posts on here to understand a job and some people criticise why i do so and why don't i just ask the tradespeople for a quote, but what they fail to understand is that the person giving you the quote will not be independent and they may take short cuts or not even know the best method to go about something, so it is always better to do your own independent research on a job so that you understand what needs to be done and can make an assessment when you do get a quote through as to whether it is a feasible quote.i sometimes state the actual way i want the job to be done as there can be more than one way to get a job done but the best way may not be the cheapest.for a driveway the depth of the foundation is important so they need to put in proper foundation otherwise the driveway will get damaged. the depth of the foundation can affect the cost quite a bit.


I never said all people who do cash are unreliable. I'm just saying you're taking more of a risk with it in my opinion and I wouldn't employ someone for certain tasks without them being VAT registered.

Proper tradespeople know what they are doing and the most efficient way on how to do that.
Yes ok research it if you want but a proper tradesperson will always have more knowledge than you.
Telling these types of people the way you want the job to be done aka how to do their job can be took as rather rude and it's a sure fire way for them to want to complete your job as quickly as possible and do you zero favours.

I have seen your posts and the accomodation that you rent out seems to be a bit of a state, I wouldn't live in it but I'm a professional so what do I know right.
Cloeeez16/02/2020 14:27

I never said all people who do cash are unreliable. I'm just saying you're …I never said all people who do cash are unreliable. I'm just saying you're taking more of a risk with it in my opinion and I wouldn't employ someone for certain tasks without them being VAT registered.Proper tradespeople know what they are doing and the most efficient way on how to do that.Yes ok research it if you want but a proper tradesperson will always have more knowledge than you.Telling these types of people the way you want the job to be done aka how to do their job can be took as rather rude and it's a sure fire way for them to want to complete your job as quickly as possible and do you zero favours.I have seen your posts and the accomodation that you rent out seems to be a bit of a state, I wouldn't live in it but I'm a professional so what do I know right.


not everyone is VAT registered as you have to have more than 85k of revenue before you need to be VAT registered so a small one man band will not always be VAT registered. a small one man band would still be reliable but for driveways i would expect them to be registered as they should easily exceed 85k of revenue since it costs a lot of money to do one drive.

tradespeople quoting may know exactly what needs to be done but that doesn't mean that they will tell you as you have stated yourself that the people who do driveways cheaply would just put tarmac over grass without putting down proper foundation. this doesn't mean that they think this is the right way of doing it, it is just a way to give you a cheap quote so they get the job.

when people quote they have to compete with other people and if their quote comes in too high they may not get the job as the customer may not know exactly what needs to be done and they are only looking at the headline figure.

i have never found tradespeople take offence when i state the precise way i want a job done. they just price the job accordingly to the spec. so for example, when i want an isolation valve fitted, i state the type of valve that i want as there are a few to choose from. or when i get a consumer unit installed, i state the actual box size i want as they come in different sizes. i find it helps when i ask for a quote if i can discuss the work with the trades person with some knowledge as then they are less likely to give me false information as they realise i understand the work but they can also discuss with me different ways to do the job as they know i will understand what they are saying.
Need to get him back to show your concerns so that he can rectify them
cliosport6516/02/2020 14:53

Need to get him back to show your concerns so that he can rectify them


Not sure I trust him to that's the problem
mooruk16/02/2020 14:54

Not sure I trust him to that's the problem


I know where you are coming from but at least give him the opportunity, then if he does rectify it watch him like a hawk
mutley116/02/2020 14:40

not everyone is VAT registered as you have to have more than 85k of …not everyone is VAT registered as you have to have more than 85k of revenue before you need to be VAT registered so a small one man band will not always be VAT registered. a small one man band would still be reliable but for driveways i would expect them to be registered as they should easily exceed 85k of revenue since it costs a lot of money to do one drive.tradespeople quoting may know exactly what needs to be done but that doesn't mean that they will tell you as you have stated yourself that the people who do driveways cheaply would just put tarmac over grass without putting down proper foundation. this doesn't mean that they think this is the right way of doing it, it is just a way to give you a cheap quote so they get the job.when people quote they have to compete with other people and if their quote comes in too high they may not get the job as the customer may not know exactly what needs to be done and they are only looking at the headline figure.i have never found tradespeople take offence when i state the precise way i want a job done. they just price the job accordingly to the spec. so for example, when i want an isolation valve fitted, i state the type of valve that i want as there are a few to choose from. or when i get a consumer unit installed, i state the actual box size i want as they come in different sizes. i find it helps when i ask for a quote if i can discuss the work with the trades person with some knowledge as then they are less likely to give me false information as they realise i understand the work but they can also discuss with me different ways to do the job as they know i will understand what they are saying.


I do understand all this but I don't think you're understanding that it is my opinion to get proper companies in to do proper jobs.
Bearing in mind I have never had to get a firm in to do my decorating. I have had a heating system put in by VAT registered company. I had my new kitchen + bathroom put in by a VAT registered company. My house rewired by a VAT registered company. Of which all these things come with a warranty and they are easy to get ahold of if anything goes wrong which it hasn't so far.
You do you, I do me.
A wise tradesman once told me - if you want to pay peanuts for a job then expect monkeys to be doing it.
Cloeeez16/02/2020 15:14

I do understand all this but I don't think you're understanding that it is …I do understand all this but I don't think you're understanding that it is my opinion to get proper companies in to do proper jobs.Bearing in mind I have never had to get a firm in to do my decorating. I have had a heating system put in by VAT registered company. I had my new kitchen + bathroom put in by a VAT registered company. My house rewired by a VAT registered company. Of which all these things come with a warranty and they are easy to get ahold of if anything goes wrong which it hasn't so far.You do you, I do me. A wise tradesman once told me - if you want to pay peanuts for a job then expect monkeys to be doing it.


as a landlord with many properties, i have had to employ more tradespeople than the average person and yes of course you often pay for what you get but you don't always have to pay top dollar to get good quality work in my experience. i have had heating systems and radiators replaced by tradespeople who are not VAT registered and they have been fine. they were gas safe registered. just because someone is VAT registered does not reflect on the quality of service at all. it just means that they are a bigger company.

i have also had kitchens and bathrooms installed by non VAT registered kitchen fitters and plumbers and the quality has been very good. the electrician i employed recently is NICEIC qualified and he replaced a consumer unit for me. his work was of a very good quality and he issued all the necessary paperwork including notifying the required authorities. however he is not VAT registered.

so whether someone is VAT registered or not will not actually reflect on the quality of service. it is certainly true however that if you pay peanuts you will get monkeys and that is not a phrase that originates from the trades but is a well known widely used phrase. however i have found that the labour rates from a tradesman can vary widely. for example, i got two quotes to replace an electric shower recently and the cheapest one was £100 while the more expensive one was £260. i went with the cheaper quote and he did a very good job. this is because i do believe that the job was achievable for £100 and that the £260 quote was over priced.
mooruk16/02/2020 14:54

Not sure I trust him to that's the problem


if he is this bad then he will only make it worse if he tries to sort the problem out. i would advise that you raise the problem with him and wait to see what he says. in the meantime getting someone who has reviews on wall papering round to show them the bodged job and ask them if it is possible to rectify and what would be need to do so and how much it would cost. you can then pass this information on to the decorator and if he has already completed the job, you could pay the other guy to rectify the job and any balance from that can be paid to the decorator if there is any balance left that is.
mutley116/02/2020 16:46

as a landlord with many properties, i have had to employ more tradespeople …as a landlord with many properties, i have had to employ more tradespeople than the average person and yes of course you often pay for what you get but you don't always have to pay top dollar to get good quality work in my experience. i have had heating systems and radiators replaced by tradespeople who are not VAT registered and they have been fine. they were gas safe registered. just because someone is VAT registered does not reflect on the quality of service at all. it just means that they are a bigger company.i have also had kitchens and bathrooms installed by non VAT registered kitchen fitters and plumbers and the quality has been very good. the electrician i employed recently is NICEIC qualified and he replaced a consumer unit for me. his work was of a very good quality and he issued all the necessary paperwork including notifying the required authorities. however he is not VAT registered.so whether someone is VAT registered or not will not actually reflect on the quality of service. it is certainly true however that if you pay peanuts you will get monkeys and that is not a phrase that originates from the trades but is a well known widely used phrase. however i have found that the labour rates from a tradesman can vary widely. for example, i got two quotes to replace an electric shower recently and the cheapest one was £100 while the more expensive one was £260. i went with the cheaper quote and he did a very good job. this is because i do believe that the job was achievable for £100 and that the £260 quote was over priced.


Dude. Idk how many times I've said my OPINION. You can't actually argue with someones opinion.
You hire whoever you want to hire, I don't care.
I hire big reputable companies and pay the money for it because I can.
Not everyone can afford to and that is ok but I hire companies with huge insurance and warranty incase something goes wrong either during the job or in future.
I do not hire your average joe because I have worked along side your average joe and some of the standards are horrific.
I am saying that in my opinion it is SAFER to hire a VAT reg.
I have seen and heard of too many horror stories about a little company or a man in a van.
As I said. It is all my opinion.
I am not saying that people who aren't VAT reg - that their work is atrocious. I am saying I personally would not hire them.
It also depends on what job it is.
Cloeeez16/02/2020 17:26

Dude. Idk how many times I've said my OPINION. You can't actually argue …Dude. Idk how many times I've said my OPINION. You can't actually argue with someones opinion.You hire whoever you want to hire, I don't care.I hire big reputable companies and pay the money for it because I can. Not everyone can afford to and that is ok but I hire companies with huge insurance and warranty incase something goes wrong either during the job or in future.I do not hire your average joe because I have worked along side your average joe and some of the standards are horrific.I am saying that in my opinion it is SAFER to hire a VAT reg.I have seen and heard of too many horror stories about a little company or a man in a van.As I said. It is all my opinion.I am not saying that people who aren't VAT reg - that their work is atrocious. I am saying I personally would not hire them.It also depends on what job it is.


if you pay top dollar then the risk of getting a cowboy is reduced for sure so if you don't mind spending a lot of money and always choose the most expensive quote then you are probably less likely to come across cowboys. employing a big company will also reduce the risk of a poor job.

it is all down to how much you want to pay or can afford to pay weighed up against how willing you are to take the risk that you may not get a good job done.

it is very difficult to find a good tradesman if you don't want to pay top dollar as even someone with lots of good feedback could still turn out to be poor service. this is partly why i try to do some of the diy jobs myself where i can as then at least i know i will do a proper job or spend enough time on it.
mooruk16/02/2020 13:47

Thing is this guy has a shed load of excellent reviews on checkatrade …Thing is this guy has a shed load of excellent reviews on checkatrade etc...ugh


Checkatrade is useless. Everybody has great reviews. Try finding a bad one - there aren't any.
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