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    Disgraceful NHS......should drunks and self inflicted pay

    So been sat in "urgent care" at my local hospital since 1030pm and it's now 410am. My daughter has severe abdominal pains. They took blood samples and a urine sample and that was at 1045pm. We have since been told there's only ONE Doctor on duty and the wait could be another 4 HOURS! During this time I've seen a number of drunks and idiots come in with various injuries obviously been caused through drink or fighting. So we keep getting pushed to the back of the queue due to these people. It's like a set off Jeremy Kyle in here. So wheres all my taxes and NI contributions going? Surely these drunks and idiots should pay an excess if it can be shown that it is their fault that they are here?

    Edit: there's a nurse going round now telling people to go home and come back later......as we might not be seen for another 4 HOURS. FFS.

    Top comments

    I have heard this a lot, but I always answer the same way, once you start charging where do you stop......

    Sportsmen - Their choice

    Horse Riders -Their Choice

    Motorcycle Riders - Their Choice

    Car Drivers -Their choice

    Cyclists - Their Choice

    Meat eaters - Their choice


    Overweight - Their choice,.... what questioned to see how they got that way....ate too much you pay..:(

    Drinkers - what .....breathalysed before being allowed treatment oO


    Anyone here not in that group.....


    You get where I am heading, visions of only teetotal health freaks with a perfect diet and perfect BMI being treated for free, then one small step to not being treated..

    I was in Hospital earlier this year, the first time in 20 years, and could not get over the difference, last time I was seen straight away put in a bed and sorted, this time 2 hours on a trolley in the corridor with a dozen others, this was 11am on a Tuesday morning and not a drunk to be seen..

    Same old powers that be trick, get us to blame others.............

    The NHS was set up to treat all people based on their medical need...........and should be given the resources to do so...

    OK Rant Over



    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

    Edited by: "mfactor" 16th Apr

    So your daughter was seen within 15 minutes of arrival and blood and urine samples were taken

    Obviously, these have to be analysed before any further diagnosis is possible

    Well done NHS!

    So if your daughter is found to be suffering from food poisoning will you be happy to pay excess as its self inflicted?

    Do not blame others, that is what they want you to do, blame the idiots that are not providing enough funding.
    65 Comments

    Everyone is triaged and seen in order of medical priority. I am assuming from the above you were triaged, tests ordered and samples taken within 15 minutes of arrival?

    While I feel for you having to wait so long, feel glad that your daughters condition is believed to be none serious.

    4 hours is quite quick. I went in after being bitten by someone and was waiting for 6!

    Hi,
    I totally understand ur frustration and as emergency medicine staff it angers us no end to see this situation which is replicated throughout the country. Successive govts have continued to underinvest in the nhs but happy to collect revenue from 24 hr opening of bars and pubs. There is chronic shortage of emergency staff and the staff are overworked and often undervalued by their own management. Nothing will change unless there is legislation in parliament to counter the drunks coming into emergency and jumping the queue. Please don't blame the frontline staff but this is the reality. The NHS runs on the goodwill of the staff but the govts past and present have pushed this goodwill to breaking point.

    So your daughter was seen within 15 minutes of arrival and blood and urine samples were taken

    Obviously, these have to be analysed before any further diagnosis is possible

    Well done NHS!

    Yes drink and drug self afflicted should have to pay

    Imagine what it must be like for the staff having to deal with that situation shift after shift.

    Abuse from the drunks
    Abuse from those not drunk who are angry at the delays caused by the drunks.

    Do not blame others, that is what they want you to do, blame the idiots that are not providing enough funding.

    cpet23

    Yes drink and drug self afflicted should have to pay



    ​So charging those with addictions / mental illness / behavioural issues / disabilities... Where do you draw the line?

    Most drink or drug cases that end up in ED have more serious underlying conditions and charging / attempting to charge would only compound the issue.

    Charging those who can actually afford to pay and have one to many on a night out and requires a visit to ED... hardly worth while and would be seen as an attack on middle Britain. It would also most like increase the alcohol related death rates of this demographic.

    Also, if someone is unconscious due to drink or drugs, had no intention of going to ED, and you took them, who would be liable for the cost?

    ED = A+E sorry realise some may not recognise ED

    MR1123

    Do not blame others, that is what they want you to do, blame the idiots … Do not blame others, that is what they want you to do, blame the idiots that are not providing enough funding.



    If it wasn't for the fact that they are treating drunks and other self inflicted ailments the service would be running better and yes these people should be charged for their stupid and irresponsible behaviour

    I agree.. they should have to pay...I do feel for the staff but why only have 1 doctor working on what is a notoriously busy day for people to go out drinking which will no doubt end up in an increase of a & e patients. Same happened with me when my daughter was a baby and having breathing difficulties.. had to wait 8 hours to be seen.. I hope your daughter gets seen soon and it's nothing too serious..

    Alcohol should be banned, that's not a question!

    The numbers of drunks are not even close enough to take the whole blame for why patients are having long waiting times. Blaming the small percentage won't have much impact overall on the waiting times I'm afraid. They had one doctor which says a lot. And the drunks maybe paying or not, no way to tell if they aren't. Bottom line is the government is screwing us over.

    Edit: The drunks Percentage is bigger than I anticipated. But still no way to tell if they are paying or not, most will be paying so paying or not they still would have to be seen which won't reduce waiting times enough.

    Like I said it's the funding. And if one doctor is left like this more often to deal with alcoholic patients and the staff having to hear complaints of long waiting times, they will quit one by one. Pressure needs to be put on the government.
    Edited by: "MR1123" 16th Apr

    So if your daughter is found to be suffering from food poisoning will you be happy to pay excess as its self inflicted?

    MR1123

    The numbers of drunks are not even close enough to take the whole blame … The numbers of drunks are not even close enough to take the whole blame for why patients are having long waiting times. Blaming the small percentage won't have much impact overall on the waiting times I'm afraid. They had one doctor which says a lot. And the drunks maybe paying or not, no way to tell if they aren't. Bottom line is the government is screwing us over. Edit: The drunks Percentage is bigger than I anticipated. But still no way to tell if they are paying or not, most will be paying so paying or not they still would have to be seen which won't reduce waiting times enough. Like I said it's the funding. And if one doctor is left like this more often to deal with alcoholic patients and the staff having to hear complaints of long waiting times, they will quit one by one. Pressure needs to be put on the government.




    Agreed i went to mine around Christmas with my boy, he had a ear infection but the school insisted i take him to be checked for meningitis, there was only about 7 people there, 3 kids, 1 guy who was still in pain after getting into a fight the week before, 1 woman who broke her foot on a trampoline and a guy who had gone down and was feeling suicidal who wanted some help, plus us.

    We still sat there for near enough 4 hours everyone does .

    MR1123

    The numbers of drunks are not even close enough to take the whole blame … The numbers of drunks are not even close enough to take the whole blame for why patients are having long waiting times. Blaming the small percentage won't have much impact overall on the waiting times I'm afraid. They had one doctor which says a lot. And the drunks maybe paying or not, no way to tell if they aren't. Bottom line is the government is screwing us over. Edit: The drunks Percentage is bigger than I anticipated. But still no way to tell if they are paying or not, most will be paying so paying or not they still would have to be seen which won't reduce waiting times enough. Like I said it's the funding. And if one doctor is left like this more often to deal with alcoholic patients and the staff having to hear complaints of long waiting times, they will quit one by one. Pressure needs to be put on the government.



    Totally agree. I hope the experience highlights the problems the government has caused. My partner is a doctor and works tirelessly with no breaks. She is constantly moaned at by patients because of how long they have had to wait and this is in no way her fault

    I have heard this a lot, but I always answer the same way, once you start charging where do you stop......

    Sportsmen - Their choice

    Horse Riders -Their Choice

    Motorcycle Riders - Their Choice

    Car Drivers -Their choice

    Cyclists - Their Choice

    Meat eaters - Their choice


    Overweight - Their choice,.... what questioned to see how they got that way....ate too much you pay..:(

    Drinkers - what .....breathalysed before being allowed treatment oO


    Anyone here not in that group.....


    You get where I am heading, visions of only teetotal health freaks with a perfect diet and perfect BMI being treated for free, then one small step to not being treated..

    I was in Hospital earlier this year, the first time in 20 years, and could not get over the difference, last time I was seen straight away put in a bed and sorted, this time 2 hours on a trolley in the corridor with a dozen others, this was 11am on a Tuesday morning and not a drunk to be seen..

    Same old powers that be trick, get us to blame others.............

    The NHS was set up to treat all people based on their medical need...........and should be given the resources to do so...

    OK Rant Over



    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

    Edited by: "mfactor" 16th Apr

    mfactor

    I have heard this a lot, but I always answer the same way, once you start … I have heard this a lot, but I always answer the same way, once you start charging where do you stop......Sportsmen - Their choiceHorse Riders -Their ChoiceMotorcycle Riders - Their ChoiceCar Drivers -Their choiceCyclists - Their ChoiceMeat eaters - Their choiceOverweight - Their choice,.... what questioned to see how they got that way....ate too much you pay..:(Drinkers - what .....breathalysed before being allowed treatment oOAnyone here not in that group.....You get where I am heading, visions of only teetotal health freaks with a perfect diet and perfect BMI being treated for free, then one small step to not being treated.. I was in Hospital earlier this year, the first time in 20 years, and could not get over the difference, last time I was seen straight away put in a bed and sorted, this time 2 hours on a trolley in the corridor with a dozen others, this was 11am on a Tuesday morning and not a drunk to be seen..Same old powers that be trick, get us to blame others.............The NHS was set up to treat all people based on their medical need...........and should be given the resources to do so...OK Rant Over :{First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—Because I was not a Socialist.Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist.Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew.Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.




    What if you were drunk and set upon by drunk strangers on the way home, is that your fault?
    What if you were drunk and got hit by a drunk driver on the way home, is that your fault?

    Are we going to charge people just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time and also as it happens being drunk at the time?

    Me and my ex got attacked by a drunk once when we were just walking past a bus stop i think he'd got kicked off the bus and was looking to lash out, if we had been drunk ourselves at the time we were walking past that bus stop at about 8pm on a Friday would it then have been our fault for being drunk or our fault for being out at 8pm on a friday?

    We didn't need hospital treatment btw.

    Everyone should pay except those who have accidents or injuries without self imposed duress!

    With regard your daughter, if there was not a temperature, no sign of swelling, bruising or suspect rashes I suspect it was not deemed an emergency, at least not at that time enough to occupy a bed etc.

    I suspect you might not have been in need of "urgent care" hence your priority. This is why 24/7 doctors in a local medical centre would be a good idea.

    groenleader

    Everyone should pay except those who have accidents or injuries without … Everyone should pay except those who have accidents or injuries without self imposed duress!With regard your daughter, if there was not a temperature, no sign of swelling, bruising or suspect rashes I suspect it was not deemed an emergency, at least not at that time enough to occupy a bed etc. I suspect you might not have been in need of "urgent care" hence your priority. This is why 24/7 doctors in a local medical centre would be a good idea.



    Do you think your taxes will go down if everyone pays at the point of service?

    Did you vote bricksit btw because ukip told you they'd magically pull millions out of a imaginary EU hat and give it to the nhs

    Banned

    fugefa

    Alcohol should be banned, that's not a question!



    With all this discrimination being suggested, I bet I can guess which group you belong in.

    As for making certain groups pay to use the NHS, I'm all for people paying who've wasted A&E services with non emergencies that should have been dealt with by their GP.

    Edited by: "3dprince" 16th Apr

    The OP should not be waiting 4+ hours.................
    If the NHS is in such a struggle then why are we all not paying more NI. I would happily pay more to get it running correctly.
    Even knock a couple a pounds of the giro bums up & down the country & that way they won't be able to afford as many fags & bottles a wine.
    Seriously weak "PC" country we live in & always given to people who give nothing back!
    You just need to look on gumtree.Facebook & see these same giro bums selling Social cookers,beds, washing machines etc.
    I as a tax payer (like most) are forced to wipe their bums without my consent!

    Put an extra 10% tax on alcohol, tobacco and products with added sugar and give that percentage direct to the NHS.

    WheresMeNuts

    The OP should not be waiting 4+ hours.................If the NHS is in … The OP should not be waiting 4+ hours.................If the NHS is in such a struggle then why are we all not paying more NI. I would happily pay more to get it running correctly.Even knock a couple a pounds of the giro bums up & down the country & that way they won't be able to afford as many fags & bottles a wine.Seriously weak "PC" country we live in & always given to people who give nothing back!You just need to look on gumtree.Facebook & see these same giro bums selling Social cookers,beds, washing machines etc.I as a tax payer (like most) are forced to wipe their bums without my consent!


    The biggest problem is if we all had work ethic​, there would be far to many people chasing fewer jobs, truth is there are not enough jobs to go round, employers would take advantage of people's desperation, you would be to frightened to even take a day off I'll as if you did not want that day's work there would be thousands that would. There are also people that just spout stop there benefits, but that would see society break down, crime would increase 10 fold, if you think it is bad now wait till people become even more desperate.

    There's a whole multitude of problems which would take hours to fully explain, and some have already been brought up....

    Doctors are leaving the NHS. Please don't bash them in the media for this and don't make it a law to work in the NHS (I'm looking at you Jeremy Hunt). They are leaving due to being overworked and undervalued leading to a demoralised workforce that are treated far better in other countries. The media bash their salaries but they are underpaid compared to other countries. The vast majority don't leave on time and don't get reimbursed for the time they stay extra, every shift. There are highly paid emergency last minute shift rates in some hospitals - as they don't have enough doctors in general - sickness in the short term and longer term issues of them leaving the hospital or leaving medicine or the U.K. You are asking people to come in on their day off, they are human and have other plans so aren't going to do it for a normal days salary.

    There's also of course the more elderly population combined with the social care crisis.

    Oh - Efficiency savings are another one. It sounds great. Let's limit the number of towels I use to wash a patient (to preserve their dignity) all to save a few pennies. I'd rather all my patients had the most dignity possible.

    There's also been several suicides due to the stress in the last year. My year group colleague killed herself in training to be a doctor only 2 years ago. The pressure is intense.
    Edited by: "Firefly1" 16th Apr

    http://i.imgur.com/FilYPv3.jpg[/img]

    Number of people attending A&E pre 2002 - 14 million a year.

    Steadily rising each year since till:

    Number of people attending A&E 2015/16 - 22.9 million.

    Somethings gotta give.


    Choking. Chest pain. Severe bleeding. Blacking out. Choose A&E or 999.

    A&E and 999 are emergency services that should only be used when people are badly injured or show the symptoms of critical illness.

    Vomiting. Ear pain. Stomach ache. Back ache. Choose a GP (Doctor).
    Make an appointment with your GP (doctor) for medical advice on an illness or injury that just won’t go away. If you need a doctor outside of opening hours, call your local surgery and follow the instructions (usually to call 111).

    Diarrhoea. Runny nose. Painful cough. Headache. Choose a Pharmacist (Chemist).
    Your local pharmacist (chemist) is a highly trained healthcare professional who can provide expert, confidential advice on common health problems and the best medicines to treat them.

    Unwell? Unsure? Confused? Need help? Choose NHS Direct / NHS24 in Scotland.
    Contact NHS Direct / NHS24 when you are ill or injured and unsure what to do next, or if you have any questions about conditions, treatments or local health services.

    Hangover. Grazed knee. Sore throat. Cough. Choose self-care.
    Self-care is the best option for treating very minor illnesses or injuries.

    Choosing well ensures you receive the best possible treatment, leaving emergency services to those who need them most.







    Edited by: "Tomb" 16th Apr

    WheresMeNuts

    The OP should not be waiting 4+ hours.................If the NHS is in … The OP should not be waiting 4+ hours.................If the NHS is in such a struggle then why are we all not paying more NI. I would happily pay more to get it running correctly.Even knock a couple a pounds of the giro bums up & down the country & that way they won't be able to afford as many fags & bottles a wine.Seriously weak "PC" country we live in & always given to people who give nothing back!You just need to look on gumtree.Facebook & see these same giro bums selling Social cookers,beds, washing machines etc.I as a tax payer (like most) are forced to wipe their bums without my consent!



    The OP didn't wait 4 hours the OP walked into a walk in centre and had a urine sample and blood tests taken, i don't know about you but I'd rather have tests and wait for four hours to see if anything can be done, then to turn up and be seen immediately by a doctor who makes a rough guess of what they think is wrong an then gives out free medicine for it and sends me home

    http://i.imgur.com/vxPRk3Um.png

    Tomb

    Number of people attending A&E pre 2002 - 14 million a year.Steadily … Number of people attending A&E pre 2002 - 14 million a year.Steadily rising each year since till:Number of people attending A&E 2015/16 - 22.9 million.Somethings gotta give.Choking. Chest pain. Severe bleeding. Blacking out. Choose A&E or 999.A&E and 999 are emergency services that should only be used when people are badly injured or show the symptoms of critical illness. Choosing well ensures you receive the best possible treatment, leaving emergency services to those who need them most.Vomiting. Ear pain. Stomach ache. Back ache. Choose a GP (Doctor).Make an appointment with your GP (doctor) for medical advice on an illness or injury that just won’t go away. If you need a doctor outside of opening hours, call your local surgery and follow the instructions. Choosing well ensures you receive the best possible treatment, leaving emergency services to those who need them most. Diarrhoea. Runny nose. Painful cough. Headache. Choose a Pharmacist (Chemist).Your local pharmacist (chemist) is a highly trained healthcare professional who can provide expert, confidential advice on common health problems and the best medicines to treat them. Choosing well ensures you receive the best possible treatment, leaving emergency services to those who need them most. Unwell? Unsure? Confused? Need help? Choose NHS Direct.Contact NHS Direct when you are ill or injured and unsure what to do next, or if you have any questions about conditions, treatments or local health services. Choosing well ensures you receive the best possible treatment, leaving emergency services to those who need them most. 0845 4647 http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.ukHangover. Grazed knee. Sore throat. Cough. Choose self-care.Self-care is the best option for treating very minor illnesses or injuries. Choosing well ensures you receive the best possible treatment, leaving emergency services to those who need them most.



    Red herring figures considering the amount of ones that have been closed or downgraded to urgent care units meaning people turn up to them and then get told to goto A&E miles away

    Most drunks will have paid A LOT of their money back in tax over the years before of the huge duties on alcohol.

    Illegal drugs... obviously there's no tax on those. It's a multi-billion pound market in the UK that currently just goes straight into the pocket of dealers and organised crime.

    Which to me isn't sensible. Much rather it was controlled, taxed, and the money saved on policing ploughed into the NHS instead.

    Edited by: "CaptainSocks" 16th Apr

    [/quote]
    Red herring figures considering the amount of ones that have been closed or downgraded to urgent care units meaning people turn up to them and then get told to goto A&E miles away[/quote]



    Of course they are...
    kingsfund.org.uk/pro…ers

    Edited by: "Tomb" 16th Apr

    Tomb

    Imagine what it must be like for the staff having to deal with that … Imagine what it must be like for the staff having to deal with that situation shift after shift.Abuse from the drunksAbuse from those not drunk who are angry at the delays caused by the drunks.



    Alcohol: a cure for stress. Discuss

    So OP. It's 5 hours later. Has your daughter been seen yet?

    fugefa

    Alcohol should be banned, that's not a question!



    Thank god Prohibition worked so well and we have a perfect example to follow...

    fugefa

    Alcohol should be banned, that's not a question!



    Long live Sharia!!! Allahu Akbar!!!

    Difficult one, the NHS is a monster is soo many ways. Needs reform, we need to get back to the values for which it was setup.
    It is not a free service, we pay for it, it is getting too expensive, it needs trimming (That is not privatisation).

    Couple of ideas..

    Sovereign immunity, or crown immunity is required. If a person decides to take a service from the NHS they are accept they can not sue the NHS for any reason. Doctors and Nurses don't intentionally create negligence, but the hoops they now have to jump through and the paper work is ridiculous. If you speak to an honest nurse/doctor, they will say the hoops and processes they have to follow causes more delay and more issues, but if they have followed them, they are safe in a court room...

    Unnecessary procedures. Get rid, the NHS is an emergency service to make you better.
    GP Practices - need a rethink, a GP practice is a money making cash cow, why do you think Richard Branson is buying them all up..I can see them going into the community and offering all sorts of services to "customers" and charging it back to the tax payer.

    The original point is interesting, I have recently spend an overnight in A&E and it was an eye opener.. Mainly drunk people, surprisingly female, some with police bringing them in and staying with them.
    We also have to remember these goods have 20% vat on them, and additional taxes on the alcohol, so in a way they are paying a little extra for the service. They will have an argument that kids playing Rugby for school etc and breaking bones don't pay a premium..
    However.. During this nightly eye openier..
    A very young couple, obviously scratters, came in with a tummy ache, when leaving they went to the counter and asked for a taxi, the counter staff pointed to the phone on the wall, they said they are on some sort of Income based benefit and are entitled to a paid taxi out of hours, staff then called a taxi and charged it to the NHS??
    I sat there is shock and I then witnessed these two getting out their iPhones and facebooking the whole experience.

    Things need to change as this government have put more and more into the NHS than any previous government, and it can not cope.

    Sunday rant over, thanks.
    Edited by: "Chiptivo" 16th Apr

    Absolutely no, NHS is an averaging costing methodology (not individualised costing) , to discrimate types of people of different causes would mean a battalion of discrimination administrators and algorithmic bureacracy which means costly maintenance.
    .
    The root cause to your woes is easily resolved at a tiny increase in NHS spend annually, about 0.1% increase in cost max.

    Don't even go down this route yes I feel sorry that you have had a long wait but once you categorise people into who pay and who don't it very quickly become a private HS

    Definitely need to separate out the injuries caused due to excessive drinking.

    Destard

    Definitely need to separate out the injuries caused due to excessive … Definitely need to separate out the injuries caused due to excessive drinking.


    NHS mess up is down to politics and mispent money collected.
    iea.org.uk/pub…way

    The tax revenue on alcohol is £10 billion: Free market think tank the Institute of Economic Affairs has produced a report which claims that alcohol revenue generates over twice as much tax revenue as it costs the country in health, policing, crime and welfare expenditure.
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