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    Do I need a new PC or just get more RAM?

    Well my PC is running incredibly slow and is getting a bit old now but I am broke at the moment so looking for the cheapest way to sort it out.

    The CPU/RAM monitor in Windows 7 says the RAM usage is pretty much always over 80% even now when I am just downloading a few things and typing on here, it can shoot up way over 90% if I should try burning a CD whilst surfing the net and downloading.

    I've formatted the hard drive and installed Windows freshly but still very slow, it may be that I din't have enough RAM to run Windows 7 but I had the same problem with Vista and downgrading below that is not really an option.

    CPU is an Athlon 64 X2 3800+ and I have 2gig of RAM installed (I think it's PC2700 but I could be completely wrong as it has been a long time since I built it and I am really out of touch with PC components now!)
    It has 3 hard drives, all SATA.

    Baring in mind that the most complex game it gets used for is Solitaire I only need it for word processing, downloading, streaming to xbox & ps3 and browsing the internet. Occasionally it gets used for photo editiing but nothing hardcore.

    So really what I want to know is would it be worth me getting some more RAM?
    (One problem is although I think the motherboard can handle up to 4gb all the 4 slots are filled with 512mb sticks)
    Or would I be better off saving towards a barebones system and keeping to hard drives and other bits?

    Seems like older RAM is really expensive at the moment.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    64 Comments

    Have you tried running ccleaner?

    looks like its the cpu that one is very old and slow

    i run win 7 on 2gb ram fine although your ram is slow too

    yup first thing you do is try and solve it with software before upgrading any hardware-

    go to run then type msconfig and disable any applications that run on start up (just keep you anti virus) also ine services tab click hide all microsoft services and disable the rest

    disk defrag regularly so your disk can be easily accessed

    uninstall any programs you dont need, use ccleaner to delete any unwanted tempory files and registry keys.

    also go to run type %temp% and delete all

    since you have 3 hard drives why not increase your page file (virtual memory) to make up for the 2gb ram

    if all fails and its still slow, thats when you can think about buying some ram and increasing it to 4gb

    good luck.

    Original Poster

    Thanks for the quick replies, downloading ccleaner now.

    I don't think it's a software issue though, remember I just formatted and freshly installed Windows, so no other software was installed and it still ran slow.
    I configured windows to be optimised for speed, so removed all the bells and whistles that come with win7.

    Going to try the ideas suggested here now and see how that goes!

    dont think more ram will help if its slow even running windows only as 2 gb is plenty for that.

    as you say old 2700 ram prices are a joke even on ebay.over twice the price of 5300 ramoO

    try computer exchange for ram, paid £2 for laptop ram thats £20 on ebay other day and it works fine

    Original Poster

    Ran ccleaner, cleared out around 2gb of stuff which should help a bit!

    I set virtual memory to 3gb on the main drive, it said Available 4.5gb so I figured this would be about right as that leaves some space for programs? All data is stored on the other 2 drives so the main drive is only used for running windows and programs.

    Now here's something new, where is the RUN command on Win7? lol

    if that's all you use it for just do a format/clean install, or go through the laborious process of going through all your programs and looking at whats running on startup/in the background (if you disable some things with msconfig you might figure out how much this will help)

    Original Poster

    I always install up to date virus protection software before connecting online so shouldn't be a problem in that respect anyway.

    Seems to be running faster since I upped the virtual memory and cleared out a few things, don't have time to do anymore tonight but will start going through msconfig tomorrow to see what else I can clear out.

    Thanks for all the help so far!

    Banned

    muffin247

    looks like its the cpu that one is very old and slowi run win 7 on 2gb … looks like its the cpu that one is very old and slowi run win 7 on 2gb ram fine although your ram is slow too


    it may be oldish but certainly isnt slow. Win7 should fly, especially with 2GB RAM

    must be other crap loaded after the install slowing it down.

    Banned

    whatsThePoint

    If you connected to the internet without an uptodate spyware blocker and … If you connected to the internet without an uptodate spyware blocker and antivirus program you would of been infected in secondsPlus if you had a virus on your HD to start with formatting isn't guaranteed to get rid of it


    LOL at both points being complete nonsense!

    you really shouldnt comment in threads if your knowledge is this wrong on the subject matter

    Banned

    Satan_Claws

    Ran ccleaner, cleared out around 2gb of stuff which should help a bit!I … Ran ccleaner, cleared out around 2gb of stuff which should help a bit!I set virtual memory to 3gb on the main drive, it said Available 4.5gb so I figured this would be about right as that leaves some space for programs? All data is stored on the other 2 drives so the main drive is only used for running windows and programs.Now here's something new, where is the RUN command on Win7? lol


    right click empty task bar and select properties, then START MENU, then customise. Check the RUN box.

    Banned

    Satan_Claws

    I always install up to date virus protection software before connecting … I always install up to date virus protection software before connecting online so shouldn't be a problem in that respect anyway.Seems to be running faster since I upped the virtual memory and cleared out a few things, don't have time to do anymore tonight but will start going through msconfig tomorrow to see what else I can clear out.Thanks for all the help so far!


    what AV product? Please dont say AVG, Mcafee or norton (pre 2010)!!!

    Original Poster

    what AV product? Please dont say AVG, Mcafee or norton (pre 2010)!!!



    Avira, used to have Spyware Terminator as well but found out that was hogging even more resources!

    become a pirate, use avast

    you can also hit windows key and r to enter run command

    I was able to read your first post clearly, so lucky for you that I wont have to tell you also that a fresh install of windows might cure your problem as you clearly said you done this already X)

    And other suggestions like running spy ware, antivirus, are not going to be of much use either as you have done a fresh install and problem remains.

    Your computer should run fine after a fresh install, more ram is always a bonus, but at the same time 2gb is fine, so it is strange.

    You might want to check setting in the bios including CPU settings, or you could have a hardware fault, like faulty HDD

    Defo look into Bios settings, it could even be the wrong hard drive settings.

    Or google : System Slow After Clean Install

    whatsThePoint

    If you connected to the internet without an uptodate spyware blocker and … If you connected to the internet without an uptodate spyware blocker and antivirus program you would of been infected in secondsPlus if you had a virus on your HD to start with formatting isn't guaranteed to get rid of it



    Actually, the only time that such a thing has ever happened was in 2004 with the Sasser worm, which wouldn't actually have been stopped by either a spyware blocker or any anti-virus software. It crept into a system and automatically executed itself using a buffer overrun trick via a vulnerable port, which is something that could've been completely avoided if people had actually installed the relevant Windows security updates. Since then, I don't think there's been anything that can automatically install itself like you describe.

    What make is the PC? Is it a self build or a Currys/PC World Jobby?

    Original Poster

    I bulit it myself, have always built my own PC's but in recent years money has been too tight to keep upgrading like I used to and as a result I am now completely out of it with current technology!

    The machine was pretty top of the range when I first built it, only thing that is crap is the graphics and sound because I use the onboard cards - basically because who needs a decent graphics card for surfing the net? All video/music is streamed to my PS3 or Xbox360 so the graphics/sound on the pc don't actually make a difference

    So far I have freed up a load of space on the main drive and am allocating that for virtual memory.
    I have run ccleaner and cleared out all temp files.
    I started defragging the main drive this morning but it was still going after an hour and I had to leave for work so it's churning away at home now.

    Once I allcocated more space for virtual memory it became noticeably quicker so I am hoping that added with all the other things suggestions on here will solve the problem as I would really rather not spend money on an old PC and wait till I can afford a new system.

    Thanks for all the help and by all means keep the ideas coming

    Obviously when you did your fresh install you diddnt just install over the current installation? Did you perform a full format first?

    If you have done this, the best progs I use are C Cleaner and Auslogics Disk Defrag, seem nice and quick and do the job. If you dont want to use paid anti virus then use the Microsoft Security Essentials, I have tried it and it seems quite good.

    Are you using Google Chrome? And is your internet connection ok? it is surprising how much a poor internet connection can make to the speed of your machine.

    Original Poster

    Yes did a fresh install, I partitioned my hard drive into 2 sections to allow the previous vista installation to remain as a dual boot in case something went wrong with the new install.
    The plan was to join the partitions back together once I was happy everything was running smoothly but I'm tempted to leave it as a dual boot so I can always be ready if I need to do another fresh install by formatting the vista partiion.


    Not using Google Chrome I use Firefox which I now run in XP compatibility mode and have downgraded to the previous release as the latest update caused it to drain so much power that it would often crash.

    Internet connection seems fine, certainly download speeds are as expected and can play on XBLive and PSN with no issues.

    I would say the partitions will have a part to play in the pc being slow. Others will probably disagree but whenever I have removed partitions the computer seems to run a lot better.

    Satan_Claws

    Yes did a fresh install, I partitioned my hard drive into 2 sections to … Yes did a fresh install, I partitioned my hard drive into 2 sections to allow the previous vista installation to remain as a dual boot in case something went wrong with the new install.The plan was to join the partitions back together once I was happy everything was running smoothly but I'm tempted to leave it as a dual boot so I can always be ready if I need to do another fresh install by formatting the vista partiion.Not using Google Chrome I use Firefox which I now run in XP compatibility mode and have downgraded to the previous release as the latest update caused it to drain so much power that it would often crash.Internet connection seems fine, certainly download speeds are as expected and can play on XBLive and PSN with no issues.

    press ctrl,alt+del and see whats running in task manager
    should be able to see whats hogging the ram and also see if theres any suspect apps running

    Like I pointed out previously :(, this could be HDD settings, or HDD fault.

    As it is a fresh install it is very unlikely to be spyware/virus related.

    As I also said, check bios settings

    Could be as simple as the CPU settings being wrong, your CPU could be running slower than it should be (Wrong setting)

    sparkyIreland

    Could be as simple as the CPU settings being wrong, your CPU could be … Could be as simple as the CPU settings being wrong, your CPU could be running slower than it should be (Wrong setting)



    could be but that wouldnt explain the excessive ram usage
    the post screen will confirm what the cpu is set to if your unsure about what/how to look in the bios
    i still thing task manager would be a good place to look, could be av doing a virus scan on bootup etc. amazing how many things we have running and dont know about it till we look there

    This link may be useful for disabling services, this was for vista, but there should not be much differences.

    tweakhound.com/vis…htm

    It may help, but I still doubt services are the cause of your slow system.

    Your best bet is to google windows 7 high ram usage, then read and try the many suggestions.

    It will be something simple, it is just finding it

    Or download and install hijack this, save log file and post here for us to have a look (http://download.cnet.com/Trend-Micro-HijackThis/3000-8022_4-10227353.html)

    Edited by: "sparkyIreland" 23rd Jul 2010

    irradiated

    could be but that wouldnt explain the excessive ram usagethe post screen … could be but that wouldnt explain the excessive ram usagethe post screen will confirm what the cpu is set to if your unsure about what/how to look in the biosi still thing task manager would be a good place to look, could be av doing a virus scan on bootup etc. amazing how many things we have running and dont know about it till we look there



    The hard drives being in Pio mode will show as very high CPU and ram usage via i/o buffer etc.

    Reset your DMA however (on a fresh install I would expect the DMA to be fixed or rather working as normal) which could indicate a cyclic redundancy error on the install HDD forcing the drive to operate in Pio mode.

    Check your bios for IDE/SATA settings and check if yoru hard drives are recgnised correctly in bios and that UDMA5 at least is in use on your HDD's (any IDE drive will need an 80 wire IDE cable to achieve that)

    Also make sure you have installed the chipset drivers for your board . Usually the most recent -- however the most recent is not always the best option as conflicts can occur with other untested hardware) I would suspect the most recent is still quite old .

    You woudl really need to be installing the chipset driver and if still same , then starting again and installing windows again to rule out chipset driver x conflicting with another version of the chipset driver. Having a ghost image made just after windows installs is a good way to test stuff. as in you can try driver if no good then load in ghost image in a minute to go back to just before you installed the chipset driver. Windows System restore is not the same option as it's still buggy and can still leave enough info to cause possible driver conflicts/corruption.

    Also depending on the chipset on you motherboard and how old your sata drives are eg a SATA II hard drive on a chipset that does not Fall-back correctly to SATA 150 can cause the same issues you are having.

    Maybe try remove all HDD's except the booting operating system one and see what happens. Then also check to see what model hdd the operating system is on and which sata mode it's operating in.

    Edited by: "dontasciime" 23rd Jul 2010

    Also set up a power profile for windows 7 to use full cpu power incase it aint done it properly, also get k8 driver updated. Try downloading cpu-z to check current state of cpu memory etc

    dontasciime

    The hard drives being in Pio mode will show as very high CPU and ram … The hard drives being in Pio mode will show as very high CPU and ram usage via i/o buffer etc.Reset your DMA however (on a fresh install I would expect the DMA to be fixed or rather working as normal) which could indicate a cyclic redundancy error on the install HDD forcing the drive to operate in Pio mode.Check your bios for IDE/SATA settings and check if yoru hard drives are recgnised correctly in bios and that UDMA5 at least is in use on your HDD's (any IDE drive will need an 80 wire IDE cable to achieve that)



    there all sata???
    sata drive activity might well slow down a system but not use ram in doing this
    i agree chipset drivers need to be correct etc etc but the pi0 and dma etc arent a problem here with sata

    Original Poster

    OK so the system does seem to be a lot better having done a lot of things you guys have suggested, the RAM usage is still being reported as very high but it doesn't seem to be as slow anymore.

    But in the interest of finding out whats going on I here is the hijack this log:

    Logfile of Trend Micro HijackThis v2.0.2
    Scan saved at 10:18:43, on 24/07/2010
    Platform: Unknown Windows (WinNT 6.01.3504)
    MSIE: Internet Explorer v8.00 (8.00.7600.16385)
    Boot mode: Normal

    Running processes:
    X:\Windows\system32\taskhost.exe
    X:\Windows\system32\Dwm.exe
    X:\Windows\Explorer.EXE
    X:\Program Files\Avira\AntiVir Desktop\avgnt.exe
    X:\Windows\System32\rundll32.exe
    X:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office12\GrooveMonitor.exe
    X:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\ARM\1.0\AdobeARM.exe
    X:\Program Files\Common Files\Corel\Corel PhotoDownloader\Corel Photo Downloader.exe
    X:\Program Files\Corel\Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo X2\CorelIOMonitor.exe
    X:\Program Files\Common Files\Nokia\MPlatform\NokiaMServer.exe
    X:\Program Files\Windows Sidebar\sidebar.exe
    X:\Program Files\Nokia\Nokia Ovi Suite\NokiaOviSuite.exe
    X:\Program Files\PC Connectivity Solution\Transports\NclMSBTSrvEx.exe
    X:\Program Files\Common Files\Nokia\NoA\nokiaaserver.exe
    X:\Program Files\BitTornado\btdownloadgui.exe
    X:\Program Files\BitTornado\btdownloadgui.exe
    X:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\firefox.exe
    X:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox\plugin-container.exe
    X:\Windows\system32\SearchFilterHost.exe
    X:\Program Files\Trend Micro\HijackThis\HijackThis.exe

    R1 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Page = go.microsoft.com/fwl…896
    R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = go.microsoft.com/fwl…157
    R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Page_URL = go.microsoft.com/fwl…157
    R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Search_URL = go.microsoft.com/fwl…896
    R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Page = go.microsoft.com/fwl…896
    R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = go.microsoft.com/fwl…157
    R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Search,SearchAssistant =
    R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Search,CustomizeSearch =
    R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Toolbar,LinksFolderName =
    O2 - BHO: AcroIEHelperStub - {18DF081C-E8AD-4283-A596-FA578C2EBDC3} - X:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Acrobat\ActiveX\AcroIEHelperShim.dll
    O2 - BHO: Groove GFS Browser Helper - {72853161-30C5-4D22-B7F9-0BBC1D38A37E} - X:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\Office12\GR469A~1.DLL
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Ptipbmf] rundll32.exe ptipbmf.dll,SetWriteCacheMode
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [avgnt] "X:\Program Files\Avira\AntiVir Desktop\avgnt.exe" /min
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvSvc] RUNDLL32.EXE X:\Windows\system32\nvsvc.dll,nvsvcStart
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvCplDaemon] RUNDLL32.EXE X:\Windows\system32\NvCpl.dll,NvStartup
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvMediaCenter] RUNDLL32.EXE X:\Windows\system32\NvMcTray.dll,NvTaskbarInit
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NBKeyScan] "X:\Program Files\Nero\Nero8\Nero BackItUp\NBKeyScan.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [GrooveMonitor] "X:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office12\GrooveMonitor.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Adobe Reader Speed Launcher] "X:\Program Files\Adobe\Reader 9.0\Reader\Reader_sl.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Adobe ARM] "X:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\ARM\1.0\AdobeARM.exe"
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NeroFilterCheck] X:\Program Files\Common Files\Ahead\Lib\NeroCheck.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Corel Photo Downloader] "X:\Program Files\Common Files\Corel\Corel PhotoDownloader\Corel Photo Downloader.exe" -startup
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Corel File Shell Monitor] X:\Program Files\Corel\Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo X2\CorelIOMonitor.exe
    O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NokiaMServer] X:\Program Files\Common Files\Nokia\MPlatform\NokiaMServer /watchfiles startup
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [Sidebar] X:\Program Files\Windows Sidebar\sidebar.exe /autoRun
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [BgMonitor_{79662E04-7C6C-4d9f-84C7-88D8A56B10AA}] "X:\Program Files\Common Files\Nero\Lib\NMBgMonitor.exe"
    O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [NokiaOviSuite2] X:\Program Files\Nokia\Nokia Ovi Suite\NokiaOviSuite.exe -tray
    O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-19\..\Run: [Sidebar] %ProgramFiles%\Windows Sidebar\Sidebar.exe /autoRun (User 'LOCAL SERVICE')
    O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-19\..\RunOnce: [mctadmin] X:\Windows\System32\mctadmin.exe (User 'LOCAL SERVICE')
    O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-20\..\Run: [Sidebar] %ProgramFiles%\Windows Sidebar\Sidebar.exe /autoRun (User 'NETWORK SERVICE')
    O4 - HKUS\S-1-5-20\..\RunOnce: [mctadmin] X:\Windows\System32\mctadmin.exe (User 'NETWORK SERVICE')
    O8 - Extra context menu item: E&xport to Microsoft Excel - res://X:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\Office12\EXCEL.EXE/3000
    O9 - Extra button: Send to OneNote - {2670000A-7350-4f3c-8081-5663EE0C6C49} - X:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\Office12\ONBttnIE.dll
    O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: S&end to OneNote - {2670000A-7350-4f3c-8081-5663EE0C6C49} - X:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\Office12\ONBttnIE.dll
    O9 - Extra button: Research - {92780B25-18CC-41C8-B9BE-3C9C571A8263} - X:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\Office12\REFIEBAR.DLL
    O13 - Gopher Prefix:
    O18 - Protocol: grooveLocalGWS - {88FED34C-F0CA-4636-A375-3CB6248B04CD} - X:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\Office12\GRA32A~1.DLL
    O23 - Service: Avira AntiVir Scheduler (AntiVirSchedulerService) - Avira GmbH - X:\Program Files\Avira\AntiVir Desktop\sched.exe
    O23 - Service: Avira AntiVir Guard (AntiVirService) - Avira GmbH - X:\Program Files\Avira\AntiVir Desktop\avguard.exe
    O23 - Service: NBService - Nero AG - X:\Program Files\Nero\Nero 7\Nero BackItUp\NBService.exe
    O23 - Service: NMIndexingService - Nero AG - X:\Program Files\Common Files\Ahead\Lib\NMIndexingService.exe
    O23 - Service: Protexis Licensing V2 (PSI_SVC_2) - Protexis Inc. - X:\Program Files\Common Files\Protexis\License Service\PsiService_2.exe
    O23 - Service: ServiceLayer - Nokia - X:\Program Files\PC Connectivity Solution\ServiceLayer.exe

    --
    End of file - 5773 bytes

    and here is a screenshot of the resource monitor:


    [img]i134.photobucket.com/alb…jpg?t=1279963255[/img]

    Does that shed any light?

    Original Poster

    Oh and googling the high ram usage in windows 7 seems to always come up with tech forums and it appears to be normal and nothing to worry about so as long as the system doesn't slow down again I guess it should be ok!

    irradiated

    there all sata???sata drive activity might well slow down a system but … there all sata???sata drive activity might well slow down a system but not use ram in doing thisi agree chipset drivers need to be correct etc etc but the pi0 and dma etc arent a problem here with sata



    Sorry but sata drives can operate in pio mode , get stuck etc and sata drives do and can have DMA issues as most sata boards offer/ operate IDE emulated under SATA controller.
    Edited by: "dontasciime" 24th Jul 2010

    i dont know if you have done this but try running in cmd chkdsk /f it might ask you to restart and let it go through the process of checking the hard drive and fixing any errors!

    kind regards

    Original Poster

    Satan claws your screen shot is no good as no one has eyes that good … Satan claws your screen shot is no good as no one has eyes that good [well without 400x]



    Oops sorry about that, it was on really to show how much RAM was in use.

    How big is your pagefile ?



    I have now set it to 40424mb after the advice on here, this seems to have solved the main problem of the pc being slow.

    I have now done the advice in your links and removed/disabled Protexis and Groove Monitor.

    Get rid of your sidebars/ gadgets



    The only gadget I have running is the CPU/RAM usage tool - which is how come I spotted the ram was at a high usage all the time.

    Any chance we can get a screenshot of the Performance tab in Task Manager?

    Also a screenshot of the first tab on CPUz might be helpful

    The localgws and groove monitor links were for you to decide if you needed to take them out etc by reading a few forum posts ... I would have taken them out based on the info ( you need to take not of the Corel products (instructions) to keep them working.

    If you have not already scanned all hard drives for errors you should schedule any to check on restart if prompter or you get and error about forcing dismount press cancel and then schedule) just tick top box for file system errors (not the clusters)
    Edited by: "dontasciime" 24th Jul 2010

    Original Poster

    Any chance we can get a screenshot of the Performance tab in Task Manager?



    Yep, here you go:
    [img]i134.photobucket.com/alb…jpg?t=1280006264[/img]

    [img]i134.photobucket.com/alb…jpg?t=1280006747[/img]


    The localgws and groove monitor links were for you to decide if you … The localgws and groove monitor links were for you to decide if you needed to take them out etc by reading a few forum posts ... I would have taken them out based on the info ( you need to take not of the Corel products (instructions) to keep them working.



    Yes I had to tinker around using the instructions in order to remove them but still allow Corel PSP to work.
    After reading through the info decided that it was worth taking them

    Will schedule a scan of the hard drives now and restart the pc

    http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/7973/45140151.png mine with 4gig of ram in W7
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