Do I need planning permission

21
Found 28th Mar
Please help a stupid person! I'm wanting to knock down this wall at the side of my garden and build a wooden fence the same size. However I want to have the fence at my property boundary, upto that footpath. So moving accross a few feet. Tried council but they keep referring me to the website. We live within a small cul-de-sac so it isn't a main road. The photo below should make it a little more clearer. I do own that patch of grass.

2916928-q2bpW.jpg
Community Updates
21 Comments
Do you own the house ?

If so the outline of your land will be on the deeds
You may need permission to close that footpath whilst you do the work. The wall may need permission, a rubber stamp job though, if you comply with the local regulations (usually height of wall and materials used).
Original Poster
Yes I own the house and yes I own that grass, my property comes upto the footpath. I don't think I'd need to close that footpath to put in the fence. As we wouldnt be on it, plus barely anyone uses it. you say a rubber stamp job, what do you mean? Will I need to hire an architect to make scale plans and drawings just for this fence? Haha. So expensive
Edited by: "Pauladin91" 28th Mar
No-one on here, unless they know the precise area, can answer your question. The exact location (postcode) matters because of such things as removal of development rights and covenants (original planning permission and title deeds) on what type of fences can be erected, the max height and where in relation to boundaries. You may even find the wall is not legal so assume nothing and go about all this quietly for fear of stirring up a jobs worth response.

EDIT - I have just noticed what looks to be a water access point in the picture? There may be other services running under the grass. You will need the suppliers approval and good luck with the water company. They will want industrial strength bridging over that water pipe and may even refuse to allow it to be enclosed inside a property. You may be asked to move it onto the pavement. More (big) expense.

1. Get the Land Registry documents to confirm you own the grass and any restrictions in the deeds.
2. Go to the planning website. It is tortuous but the answer will be there.
3. I am not sure of Party Wall rules apply to this (ANYONE ELSE KNOW?). It's not just proximity to the path. If you build the wall right against the path, the footings will, by definition, go under the edge of the path
4. You are very likely to need Building regs approval for a wall. It can probably be done under a Notice rather than having plans drawn up but for maybe £200, you can probably find someone to draw a building rega plan with all the details on it and get pre approval. It will also mean you have details of what materials to use and avoid costly mistakes.
5. You will need a barrier while digging the footings.

Yes, the planning people are not helpful these days but if you involved your local councillor, (s)he may get answers for you. Email them with details and they forward it intoo the department. Often, council employees will jump through hoops to answer a councillor.

See if anyone else done the same thing locally. Look up their address on the planning website/portal
Edited by: "ccnp" 28th Mar
Original Poster
ccnp11 m ago

No-one on here, unless they know the precise area, can answer your …No-one on here, unless they know the precise area, can answer your question. The exact location (postcode) matters because of such things as removal of development rights and covenants (original planning permission and title deeds) on what type of fences can be erected, the max height and where in relation to boundaries. You may even find the wall is not legal so assume nothing and go about all this quietly for fear of stirring up a jobs worth response.1. Get the Land Registry documents to confirm you own the grass and any restrictions in the deeds.2. Go to the planning website. It is tortuous but the answer will be there.3. I am not sure of Party Wall rules apply to this (ANYONE ELSE KNOW?). It's not just proximity to the path. If you build the wall right against the path, the footings will, by definition, go under the edge of the path4. You are very likely to need Building regs approval for a wall. It can probably be done under a Notice rather than having plans drawn up but for maybe £200, you can probably find someone to draw a building rega plan with all the details on it and get pre approval. It will also mean you have details of what materials to use and avoid costly mistakes.5. You will need a barrier while digging the footings.Yes, the planning people are not helpful these days but if you involved your local councillor, (s)he may get answers for you. Email them with details and they forward it intoo the department. Often, council employees will jump through hoops to answer a councillor.See if anyone else done the same thing locally. Look up their address on the planning website/portal



Thanks alot for the response.

1. I have the title deeds and I definitely own the land. The house is 15 years old and any covenants have since expired.
2. Ive just looked again now and it says planning needed when next to a highway, but does a quiet culdesac count?
3. For the other side of the wall, I have consulted my neighbour and they have no problem in me doing this and knocking down my side of the wall.


There are other people on my culdesac with wooden fences right upto the road however I believe they have been there since they were built. I do not understand why the idiots who built this house put my wall there, why would anyone want a pointless patch of grass next to their house.

Also there is a main road nearby that is busy and they have the same style wall as mine that is right next to the footpath.
I haven't come across covenants that 'expire' (but neither am I an expert)

Defining a highway is fun
gardenlaw.co.uk/php…382

Good news from the neighbour

You house may have been the show house? And so they put a fancy wall up to enhance it.
Pauladin9121 m ago

Thanks alot for the response.1. I have the title deeds and I definitely …Thanks alot for the response.1. I have the title deeds and I definitely own the land. The house is 15 years old and any covenants have since expired. 2. Ive just looked again now and it says planning needed when next to a highway, but does a quiet culdesac count?3. For the other side of the wall, I have consulted my neighbour and they have no problem in me doing this and knocking down my side of the wall. There are other people on my culdesac with wooden fences right upto the road however I believe they have been there since they were built. I do not understand why the idiots who built this house put my wall there, why would anyone want a pointless patch of grass next to their house. Also there is a main road nearby that is busy and they have the same style wall as mine that is right next to the footpath.


as above, covenants don't generally expire - they stay with the property indefinitely unless you challenge and get them removed
If your in any doubt you could scan your deeds, the photos of houses with their fence line at the path etc. and email it to your planning department.

If you explain it and say that you don't believe you require planning permission could you confirm. Either way you should get a response, if they agree with you, you have the email in writing incase someone complains or you have issues.

I've done this on a few occasions although it's dependant on the council how helpful they are.
Original Poster
ccnp14 m ago

I haven't come across covenants that 'expire' (but neither am I an …I haven't come across covenants that 'expire' (but neither am I an expert)Defining a highway is funhttps://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17382Good news from the neighbourYou house may have been the show house? And so they put a fancy wall up to enhance it.


The covenants were in place for 10 years from build date.

Cheers for the suggestion about emailing them, I think I'll do that. The council are useless though. The only time I rely on them and they can't help
Isn’t there some sort of law that if someone proves that they have been responsible for a piece of land for 15 yrs+ then they have the right to claim ownership. In this case the council have beenmaintaining the grass and they probably consider it to be their land, Personalky I think you need to get permission. If I happened to see someone down my street suddenly building a new wall as you intend to do I would be ringing the council straight away to see if they’d got permission.
Original Poster
Toptrumpet8 m ago

Isn’t there some sort of law that if someone proves that they have been r …Isn’t there some sort of law that if someone proves that they have been responsible for a piece of land for 15 yrs+ then they have the right to claim ownership. In this case the council have beenmaintaining the grass and they probably consider it to be their land, Personalky I think you need to get permission. If I happened to see someone down my street suddenly building a new wall as you intend to do I would be ringing the council straight away to see if they’d got permission.


Where did you get that the council maintain that patch of grass. They've never done owt to it. Me and me neighbour (he owns the other end of the grass) have to go out of our way to cut this annoying bit. I know, it makes no sense why they didn't put the perimeter on our boundary
Just assumption on my part, sorry. Not used to seeing neighbours cutting the grass outside their house, the council just do it around here
Original Poster
Toptrumpet10 m ago

Just assumption on my part, sorry. Not used to seeing neighbours cutting …Just assumption on my part, sorry. Not used to seeing neighbours cutting the grass outside their house, the council just do it around here


No worries. You must live in a nice area. The only time the council come here is to empty the bins.
This information should be in the pack you got from the solicitors when buying the property. Some covenants are only put in place whilst the builders are trying to sell the properties, It's just a way of keeping the look of the estate. If in doubt you can consult a solicitor to put your mind at ease but as the land isn't green belt and you own it I would say you're alright.
Toptrumpet44 m ago

Isn’t there some sort of law that if someone proves that they have been r …Isn’t there some sort of law that if someone proves that they have been responsible for a piece of land for 15 yrs+ then they have the right to claim ownership. In this case the council have beenmaintaining the grass and they probably consider it to be their land, Personalky I think you need to get permission. If I happened to see someone down my street suddenly building a new wall as you intend to do I would be ringing the council straight away to see if they’d got permission.


Try having a chat with them first. You might even befriend one of your neighbours.
Original Poster
I've contacted council, only thing I can do is request a 48 hour call back. The value for money we get in council tax is just abysmal
my husband is a surveyor so i asked him for you and he says that you will need planning permission. you need to look at the neigbouring properties and see where their fences are as there is a 'building line' regulation where all properties in a street runs along so the council will need to decide if they can allow you to build outside of the building line.
To be fair I think you are wasting money and time. It won't make much difference
If I was you I would let your neighbours know what you're planning - if anyone has any concerns/objections it will be them.

If they are happy with what you plan to do then i would just email the council as whitebook says.

If you then get no objections or no response then I would just do it.

Some times in life it is better all round to "ask for forgiveness (if necessary) rather than permission" and I suggest this is one of them!
Original Poster
The council have got back to me, he says planning permission so planning it is. I hope they take my drawings on paint
Just seen this now, but you do need planning due to what I think is "change of amenity" (or similar, can't remember the exact term). That is, the public have technically had access to it up until now (or the point you want to fence it).

Any fences put up next to footpaths and highways have all sorts of protection about what you can/can't do, so planning is required for that. Bit of a shame due to the costs, but it also stops (in theory) people doing all sorts of odd things with boundary land
Edited by: "chuffedfox" 29th Mar
Post a comment
Avatar
@
    Text

    Top Discussions

    Top Merchants