Donated organs of 13-year-old girl help record eight people to live

31
Found 8th Sep 2017
A 13-year-old girl who died unexpectedly of a brain aneurysm has had
her organs transplanted to eight people - the largest number in the
history of the organ donation service.


Jemima Layzell was “lovely – clever, funny, compassionate and
creative”, said her mother, Sophy Layzell, 43, a drama teacher from
Horton in Somerset.

...

Her parents found the decision hard, but are glad they made
it. Jemima’s heart, small bowel, and pancreas were transplanted into
three people. Two people received her kidneys. Her liver was split and
transplanted into another two people, while her lungs were transplanted
into one patient.


The eight recipients included five children, who came from all over England.

...

Last year, 457 people died waiting for a transplant, including 14
children. There are 6,414 people on the transplant waiting list
including 176 children.


Anthony Clarkson, of NHS Blood and Transplant, said: “Every donor is
special and Jemima’s unique story shows the extraordinary difference a
few words can make. Hundreds of people are still dying unnecessarily
waiting for a transplant because too many families say no to organ
donation.


“Please tell your family you want to donate, and if you are unsure,
ask yourself; if you needed a transplant would you accept one? If so,
shouldn’t you be prepared to donate?”


To join the NHS organ donor register visit organdonation.nhs.uk or contact the 24-hour donor line on 0300 123 23 23.

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31 Comments

Yes a fantastic donation. Everyone should be an organ donor, its just perfect sense.

Nice.

Frankly it should be the law that they can just take what they need.

Yes the parents made the right choice for them but it was still a difficult decision they said. Lots of respect for them.

I will never condone a parent who has not made the same choice. Yes maybe many lives could be saved if some parents made the same decision. But for some it's easier to accept your child has gone when they are complete. Having parts of their child still walking around whilst they have to cherish the memories and heartache must be very, very difficult.

If I ever had to make a similar decision I would want to know who would benefit and are they really worthy of my childs help and because that's not part of the donation "system" then it would mean only one possible outcome.

But that's me, my opinion (understand it, accept it because I'm allowed to have my opinion still)

philphil619 m ago

If I ever had to make a similar decision I would want to know who would …If I ever had to make a similar decision I would want to know who would benefit and are they really worthy of my childs help and because that's not part of the donation "system" then it would mean only one possible outcome. But that's me, my opinion (understand it, accept it because I'm allowed to have my opinion still)


Do you have any children, phil'?

Great story but even if you chose to be a donor, your family can refuse at the end despite your wishes.
click me

Original Poster

shabbird10 m ago

Great story but even if you chose to be a donor, your family can refuse at …Great story but even if you chose to be a donor, your family can refuse at the end despite your wishes. click me


That's sad and would make me quite angry (if I wasn't dead).
I think people should have to opt out of donation.

This is why I signed up to be a organ donor when I was signing up for my provisional drivers license, and I'll do the same for blood donation when I finally meet the requirements (I am too low weight).

philphil612 h, 13 m ago

Yes the parents made the right choice for them but it was still a …Yes the parents made the right choice for them but it was still a difficult decision they said. Lots of respect for them.I will never condone a parent who has not made the same choice. Yes maybe many lives could be saved if some parents made the same decision. But for some it's easier to accept your child has gone when they are complete. Having parts of their child still walking around whilst they have to cherish the memories and heartache must be very, very difficult.If I ever had to make a similar decision I would want to know who would benefit and are they really worthy of my childs help and because that's not part of the donation "system" then it would mean only one possible outcome. But that's me, my opinion (understand it, accept it because I'm allowed to have my opinion still)




I wonder how those parents would feel if their kid died on the waiting list. Everyone is worthy of life, organ donation relieves suffering.

When you die, your body is a lump of meat, its not a person its a corpse.

catbeans15 m ago

I wonder how those parents would feel if their kid died on the waiting …I wonder how those parents would feel if their kid died on the waiting list. Everyone is worthy of life, organ donation relieves suffering. When you die, your body is a lump of meat, its not a person its a corpse.


I understand you and I understand the pain and suffering of family/friends to those needing or dying for lack of transplant opportunities.

My main point is that people have choices and opinions and they should be accepted not challenged or questioned. It's their right to have opinions/choices.

Just as a scenario how would anyone feel if they lost their child and donated their childs organs and one of the recipients was a convicted child sex offender? Nobody can say it won't happen and nobody will tell you that the recipient has these offences.
There's also a religious/cultural aspects, which neither are my concerns with regards to my own opinion, but I'm guessing these would refuse their childrens organs being used but wouldn't bat an eyelid at wanting their own child to be a recipient.

I give my utmost respect to those parents who have made the sacrifice and helped others but I will never condone those who choose not to.

Original Poster

philphil6123 m ago

I understand you and I understand the pain and suffering of family/friends …I understand you and I understand the pain and suffering of family/friends to those needing or dying for lack of transplant opportunities.My main point is that people have choices and opinions and they should be accepted not challenged or questioned. It's their right to have opinions/choices.Just as a scenario how would anyone feel if they lost their child and donated their childs organs and one of the recipients was a convicted child sex offender? Nobody can say it won't happen and nobody will tell you that the recipient has these offences.There's also a religious/cultural aspects, which neither are my concerns with regards to my own opinion, but I'm guessing these would refuse their childrens organs being used but wouldn't bat an eyelid at wanting their own child to be a recipient.I give my utmost respect to those parents who have made the sacrifice and helped others but I will never condone those who choose not to.


You've got every right to your opinion, you have to accept other people can challenge it though - that's their right.
I used to think it would be horrible to be buried without eyes but I just think whatever now, that may be linked to my not really being religious any more.
I think the guy from the donations service sums it up: "If you needed a transplant would you accept one? If so, shouldn’t you be prepared to donate?”

Cr0m17 m ago

You've got every right to your opinion, you have to accept other people …You've got every right to your opinion, you have to accept other people can challenge it though - that's their right.I used to think it would be horrible to be buried without eyes but I just think whatever now, that may be linked to my not really being religious any more. I think the guy from the donations service sums it up: "If you needed a transplant would you accept one? If so, shouldn’t you be prepared to donate?”


Why should people challenge others opinions? Are we allowed to challenge every religion or every race or gender without the fear of being stigmatised? People have a right to choose their religion (most), they have a right to choose their gender yes they don't have a choice when it comes to race but it's deemed offensive when others challenge. For some abortions are acceptable, for others abortions are totally unacceptable and for some abortions given the right "conditions" are acceptable but others ho have don't match those "choices" appear to be offended.

I am not offended and will not challenge a family member denying the organ donation of their deceased relative. It's their right, their choice. I would, if allowed, challenge who those organs are given to but because I'm not allowed I cannot say I would allow organ donation.

Yes I'm on the Organ Donation register and they can do what they like with my body once I'm gone because I won't ever know who is receiving them and being in a position to challenge the recipient. That said if it was my child I'd want to know who the recipient was but because I wouldn't be allowed to know I cannot make that decision.

philphil6153 m ago

I understand you and I understand the pain and suffering of family/friends …I understand you and I understand the pain and suffering of family/friends to those needing or dying for lack of transplant opportunities.My main point is that people have choices and opinions and they should be accepted not challenged or questioned. It's their right to have opinions/choices.Just as a scenario how would anyone feel if they lost their child and donated their childs organs and one of the recipients was a convicted child sex offender? Nobody can say it won't happen and nobody will tell you that the recipient has these offences.There's also a religious/cultural aspects, which neither are my concerns with regards to my own opinion, but I'm guessing these would refuse their childrens organs being used but wouldn't bat an eyelid at wanting their own child to be a recipient.I give my utmost respect to those parents who have made the sacrifice and helped others but I will never condone those who choose not to.



Your thought process is highly contradictory, phil'. Putting aside what you condone or not, this subject is not suited to predictable grandstanding. The complexities involved for both provider and receipient really cannot be captured in such simplistic terms.

Taking your rather bizarre 'convicted child sex offender' scenario as an example, imagine the following (purely theoretical) twist on this. For the sake of argument, what if that person were you, and you had a daughter (again purely theoretical) who desperately needed a heart transplant. The family of an available donor were aware of your criminal record, and refused permission for the perfectly-matched heart to be used to save your daughter's life, because they thought her not 'worthy' of receiving it due to your past.

Is that fair on the daughter? Of course not. And that is why we thankfully have a system, for all it's faults, that does not allow people within it to 'play God' with who does, and who doesn't specifically receive any individual organs.

You can see why that is so, right?

To take (just) one more of your points;

philphil613 h, 22 m ago

Having parts of their child still walking around whilst they have to …Having parts of their child still walking around whilst they have to cherish the memories and heartache must be very, very difficult.



I think you would find that a lot of the parents in this unfortunate situation will feel the polar opposite to the view you put forward. I dare say for many, if not all, the very existence of the enduring legacy is an incalculable help in getting them through one of the worst experiences life has to offer.

I have no doubt that is the case for this family, and the wonderful legacy that their daughter has left to so many.

philphil611 h, 51 m ago

I understand you and I understand the pain and suffering of family/friends …I understand you and I understand the pain and suffering of family/friends to those needing or dying for lack of transplant opportunities.My main point is that people have choices and opinions and they should be accepted not challenged or questioned. It's their right to have opinions/choices.Just as a scenario how would anyone feel if they lost their child and donated their childs organs and one of the recipients was a convicted child sex offender? Nobody can say it won't happen and nobody will tell you that the recipient has these offences.There's also a religious/cultural aspects, which neither are my concerns with regards to my own opinion, but I'm guessing these would refuse their childrens organs being used but wouldn't bat an eyelid at wanting their own child to be a recipient.I give my utmost respect to those parents who have made the sacrifice and helped others but I will never condone those who choose not to.



Wouldn't a convicted sex offender likely be a lot older than say a 5 or 10 year old who's organs are being donated, and wouldn't those organs be a wrong 'fit'? Not sure how these things work but I would assume the donor and recipient would need to be of a similar age.

Original Poster

philphil611 h, 16 m ago

Why should people challenge others opinions? Are we allowed to challenge …Why should people challenge others opinions? Are we allowed to challenge every religion or every race or gender without the fear of being stigmatised?


Imo it's vital to challenge different opinions, that's how we reach better conclusions. It's the process one's own brain goes through to learn.
And yeah, I hear a lot of people saying "we're not allowed to talk about" this or that... It's never stopped me then?!

emporer47 m ago

Wouldn't a convicted sex offender likely be a lot older than say a 5 or 10 …Wouldn't a convicted sex offender likely be a lot older than say a 5 or 10 year old who's organs are being donated, and wouldn't those organs be a wrong 'fit'? Not sure how these things work but I would assume the donor and recipient would need to be of a similar age.


AFAIK some organs can be used irrespective of age ie liver kidneys etc

Cr0m58 m ago

Imo it's vital to challenge different opinions, that's how we reach better …Imo it's vital to challenge different opinions, that's how we reach better conclusions. It's the process one's own brain goes through to learn.And yeah, I hear a lot of people saying "we're not allowed to talk about" this or that... It's never stopped me then?!


Maybe you are right - it is OK to question/challenge a persons opinions but to stigmatise their choices is wrong IMO

Some people including ITT think those who refuse to allow their, or their childrens organs, for organ donation is wrong and it's not wrong it's a choice. Just like it's a choice whether you want to be a car driver or cyclist. Just like you want to be identified as male or female - it's a choice and you shouldn't be criticised/stigmatised for making those choices.

As I said, I'm on the donor register because when I'm dead I won't be able to question who will get my organs if they are any good. But if it were my child and I had to decide for me I'd want to be sure the organs went to someone worthy of benefiting from those organs and because of current legislation/policy there's no way I could guarantee that those organs wouldn't go to some worthy

For example (and yes I know it's not UK based) try searching Anthony Stokes Georgia & death row inmates transplants

I know it's a bloody tough topic and it's even worse at the time the decisions are needed to be made... that's why I offer my utmost respect to those parents but for me there is no guarantee on who would get the benefit and that's my opinion is so.


If I knew a child would benefit then yes go for it but it's the not knowing
Edited by: "philphil61" 8th Sep 2017

A good outcome of a terrible tragedy.
Could I mention that people consider being blood donors, platelet donors and bone marrow donors too? My brother is currently enduring a second attack of leukaemia and is awaiting a bone marrow transplant. I'm not a match sadly but I am a regular blood donor. People with cancer need lots of blood and platelets.

Original Poster

13norfolk15 m ago

A good outcome of a terrible tragedy. Could I mention that people consider …A good outcome of a terrible tragedy. Could I mention that people consider being blood donors, platelet donors and bone marrow donors too? My brother is currently enduring a second attack of leukaemia and is awaiting a bone marrow transplant. I'm not a match sadly but I am a regular blood donor. People with cancer need lots of blood and platelets.


I will look into that tomorrow, nice one.

philphil614 h, 0 m ago

I understand you and I understand the pain and suffering of family/friends …I understand you and I understand the pain and suffering of family/friends to those needing or dying for lack of transplant opportunities.My main point is that people have choices and opinions and they should be accepted not challenged or questioned. It's their right to have opinions/choices.Just as a scenario how would anyone feel if they lost their child and donated their childs organs and one of the recipients was a convicted child sex offender? Nobody can say it won't happen and nobody will tell you that the recipient has these offences.There's also a religious/cultural aspects, which neither are my concerns with regards to my own opinion, but I'm guessing these would refuse their childrens organs being used but wouldn't bat an eyelid at wanting their own child to be a recipient.I give my utmost respect to those parents who have made the sacrifice and helped others but I will never condone those who choose not to.



I get what you are saying, but some times there needs to be blanket rules for the greater good no matter what. Sex offenders may get organs, but then so do alot of people. If you let people judge based on criminal record, you open the door to lot of other judgements, race etc. It also delays the transplant and the process takes long enough already to match and sort who gets what. Hypothetical situations are shaley aswell, what if that sex offender has turned his life around, what if he continues on to save others life? "What if " is always a weak argument, though I see the sentiment in that case. Also why do you feel worthy to chose who deserves what? Imagine when your kids are older and one needed a transplant and they were told sorry you have convictions. It's also a case of people who feel like you do, or like the people you describe will quite happily take an organ if they need one, but won't be registered donars for silly reasons.


philphil611 h, 21 m ago

AFAIK some organs can be used irrespective of age ie liver kidneys etc



This is kind of true within reason, and they generally try to match age, as well as a bunch of other factors.

catbeans30 m ago

I get what you are saying, but some times there needs to be blanket rules …I get what you are saying, but some times there needs to be blanket rules for the greater good no matter what. Sex offenders may get organs, but then so do alot of people. If you let people judge based on criminal record, you open the door to lot of other judgements, race etc. It also delays the transplant and the process takes long enough already to match and sort who gets what. Hypothetical situations are shaley aswell, what if that sex offender has turned his life around, what if he continues on to save others life? "What if " is always a weak argument, though I see the sentiment in that case. Also why do you feel worthy to chose who deserves what? Imagine when your kids are older and one needed a transplant and they were told sorry you have convictions. It's also a case of people who feel like you do, or like the people you describe will quite happily take an organ if they need one, but won't be registered donars for silly reasons. This is kind of true within reason, and they generally try to match age, as well as a bunch of other factors.


But it's still a choice?

And to reiterate a point you make

"It's also a case of people who feel like you do, or like the people you describe will quite happily take an organ if they need one, but won't be registered donars for silly reasons. "

As I've stated I'm already on the organ donors register. As for wanting/needing any organ transplants can I just point out that there are still people alive in this country and around the world who know and understand that when their time is up then their time is up.

My father has, for decades, suffered with arthritis on his knees for which he takes medication/treatment. He has been offered, previously, the opportunity to have both knees replaced. He said "I want to go out with what I was born with and let them spend that money (NHS funds) on somebody that really need the help"

He's no hero, he's just old school and I'm of his blood....I think (I could be the Findus reps or the ice cream mans son)
Not everybody is a taker in this world and not everybody should be pressured into donating their or the childrens organs.

What if it was religion or cultural thing that prevented either donating or accepting organs? Should they be challenged and stigmatised?

I lost an newborn son in 2010. To this day I wish we could have donated his organs but sadly it was not possible. My husband, parents and brothers are all aware of how important it is to me that, should I die, anything that I can donate I do. I have gone on to have 4 more children and if we faced the unthinkable again, our kids names are already on the register.
Our youngest has problems with his heart and renal system and it is possible he will need a kidney in the future - how could we willingly accept one if we weren't prepared to give?

So few people die in a situation where their organs can be donated, it is an absolute abomination that the deceased's wishes can be overridden by a grief stricken relative. I would be very interested to know what criteria you'd employ when deciding if somebody would be 'worthy' of your child's organs? Would a white child be more or less worthy than a black one? Would a 4 year old be more likely to gain approval than a 20 year old? Power trip much.

Yes, there are many people who accept that when their time is up, that's it, but there are a far greater number who are usually very young, that want to have the chance at life that your (elderly?) father has had. Oh, and just so you know, arthritis is NOTHING like organ failure.

philphil611 h, 14 m ago

But it's still a choice?And to reiterate a point you make "It's also a …But it's still a choice?And to reiterate a point you make "It's also a case of people who feel like you do, or like the people you describe will quite happily take an organ if they need one, but won't be registered donars for silly reasons. "As I've stated I'm already on the organ donors register. As for wanting/needing any organ transplants can I just point out that there are still people alive in this country and around the world who know and understand that when their time is up then their time is up.My father has, for decades, suffered with arthritis on his knees for which he takes medication/treatment. He has been offered, previously, the opportunity to have both knees replaced. He said "I want to go out with what I was born with and let them spend that money (NHS funds) on somebody that really need the help"He's no hero, he's just old school and I'm of his blood....I think (I could be the Findus reps or the ice cream mans son)Not everybody is a taker in this world and not everybody should be pressured into donating their or the childrens organs.What if it was religion or cultural thing that prevented either donating or accepting organs? Should they be challenged and stigmatised?




Good on your Dad, but knees aren't the same as something that will keep someone alive and drastically improve their life.

I would like to know what religion/ culture is against organ donation. I know of Jehovah witnesses, who don't like blood or organ transplants, but then other Jehovah's who are happy to take when they really need. Islam, there are arguments for and against but in general most Muslims are generally in favour of Transplants. I talked to a devout Muslim friend of mine who helps run his local mosque and he is very in favour. If we take religion and culture as a reason not to do something, then legalise child brides, rapes, stonings and FGM, since they have a cultural and religious Basis.

catbeans1 h, 9 m ago

Good on your Dad, but knees aren't the same as something that will keep …Good on your Dad, but knees aren't the same as something that will keep someone alive and drastically improve their life.


^^^^You and the previous reply really missed the point^^^^ Especially when you stated

"It's also a case of people who feel like you do, or like the people you describe will quite happily take an organ if they need one, but won't be registered donars for silly reasons. "

And of course knees aren't as important as organs but you both decided to ignore

"can I just point out that there are still people alive in this country and around the world who know and understand that when their time is up then their time is up."

But hey ho you are entitled to challenge my opinion and try to force me to change my ways, nothing wrong with that

or is there?

philphil6116 m ago

^^^^You and the previous reply really missed the point^^^^ Especially …^^^^You and the previous reply really missed the point^^^^ Especially when you stated"It's also a case of people who feel like you do, or like the people you describe will quite happily take an organ if they need one, but won't be registered donars for silly reasons. "And of course knees aren't as important as organs but you both decided to ignore "can I just point out that there are still people alive in this country and around the world who know and understand that when their time is up then their time is up."But hey ho you are entitled to challenge my opinion and try to force me to change my ways, nothing wrong with thator is there?




No there isn't anything wrong with challenging views, but this is just a discussion. I am not trying to change your mind, this is an open forum so anyone can respond to anyone and express a view point.


"People who feel like you do, or like the people you describe" - I'm not claiming you feel anyway you don't, I am talking about the scenarios and people you described. It's easy to say "some people know when to give up" when you are not in that position or when speaking about someone in later life. Maybe kids, teens, 20/30/40 year olds should know when to just give up? There is always that option it's called managed withdrawal and it is mentioned to anyone who needs a transplant.

I just always try to look at things honestly from both sides and it's easy to hold a certain position till it's someone you know or love who needs something they can't have because some people hold frankly superstitious views.

catbeans30 m ago

No there isn't anything wrong with challenging views, but this is just a …No there isn't anything wrong with challenging views, but this is just a discussion. I am not trying to change your mind, this is an open forum so anyone can respond to anyone and express a view point. "People who feel like you do, or like the people you describe" - I'm not claiming you feel anyway you don't, I am talking about the scenarios and people you described. It's easy to say "some people know when to give up" when you are not in that position or when speaking about someone in later life. Maybe kids, teens, 20/30/40 year olds should know when to just give up? There is always that option it's called managed withdrawal and it is mentioned to anyone who needs a transplant. I just always try to look at things honestly from both sides and it's easy to hold a certain position till it's someone you know or love who needs something they can't have because some people hold frankly superstitious views.


Thanks for your understanding

But reading the above replies seems to point the finger at my response as being negative and I should change and that's what I'm against.

I have an opinion on what I believe , in my heart, is correct for me and I don't need or want others to try to change as it can appear offensive (if you understand me).

That's the reason I was using religion or culture as potential arguments for non organ donation... as in if it's OK for them (and there are some) then why can't it be OK for a non believer

I also added into the discussion about convicted murderers etc and the only throwback was what if they were reformed persons but no response about what if they weren't or what if they were lifers/death row?

I'm not against organ donation my name is down. I used to give blood regularly (I got the badge to prove it - medical reasons are why I've had to give it up) but for organ donation I'd question who was the recipient

If it was another child then there would be no question - if it was a lifer/paedo or similar scumbag then no but because we aren't allowed to know who the recipient is at the time it's problematic for me.

philphil6111 m ago

Thanks for your understandingBut reading the above replies seems to point …Thanks for your understandingBut reading the above replies seems to point the finger at my response as being negative and I should change and that's what I'm against. I have an opinion on what I believe , in my heart, is correct for me and I don't need or want others to try to change as it can appear offensive (if you understand me).That's the reason I was using religion or culture as potential arguments for non organ donation... as in if it's OK for them (and there are some) then why can't it be OK for a non believerI also added into the discussion about convicted murderers etc and the only throwback was what if they were reformed persons but no response about what if they weren't or what if they were lifers/death row?I'm not against organ donation my name is down. I used to give blood regularly (I got the badge to prove it - medical reasons are why I've had to give it up) but for organ donation I'd question who was the recipient If it was another child then there would be no question - if it was a lifer/paedo or similar scumbag then no but because we aren't allowed to know who the recipient is at the time it's problematic for me.


I think your 8 lengthy contributions are mostly based on 'Straw Man' arguments of your own making, phil'. You seem to be keen to whip up your own frenzy within the selective responses you are posting. In other words, you appeared to start out arguing against points that hadn't been made, and have seized upon subsequent and selective responses for justification.

Just an observation,

philphil614 h, 55 m ago

Thanks for your understandingBut reading the above replies seems to point …Thanks for your understandingBut reading the above replies seems to point the finger at my response as being negative and I should change and that's what I'm against. I have an opinion on what I believe , in my heart, is correct for me and I don't need or want others to try to change as it can appear offensive (if you understand me).That's the reason I was using religion or culture as potential arguments for non organ donation... as in if it's OK for them (and there are some) then why can't it be OK for a non believerI also added into the discussion about convicted murderers etc and the only throwback was what if they were reformed persons but no response about what if they weren't or what if they were lifers/death row?I'm not against organ donation my name is down. I used to give blood regularly (I got the badge to prove it - medical reasons are why I've had to give it up) but for organ donation I'd question who was the recipient If it was another child then there would be no question - if it was a lifer/paedo or similar scumbag then no but because we aren't allowed to know who the recipient is at the time it's problematic for me.



I am interested how you would feel about these completely hypothetical situations;

You are to decide whether the organs would be taken or not, as the above article there will be 8 recipients, but you found out 1 is Fred West your choices are still A. Allow donation or B. Don't allow donation of any organs, what would you do?

Would you accept the life saving organ of a pedophile for one of your children?

I think certain people should be refused organ donations if they need them, i,e rapists, pedophiles, terrorists and murderers should be left to rot.

If I needed a transplant, I wouldn't really be comfortable being the receipt-ant of a pedophiles heart etc.. I think I would rather die so I get philphils argument to a degree.

However not knowing is probably a good thing because there isn't time to be selective, I'm happy to donate my organs and hope they would go to the right people that I would find worthy.

catbeans7 h, 4 m ago

I am interested how you would feel about these completely hypothetical …I am interested how you would feel about these completely hypothetical situations;You are to decide whether the organs would be taken or not, as the above article there will be 8 recipients, but you found out 1 is Fred West your choices are still A. Allow donation or B. Don't allow donation of any organs, what would you do?Would you accept the life saving organ of a pedophile for one of your children?



Scenario 1
The morality of the government and justice system and the NHS should be challenged well before my morals should be judged. And if those in power failed then I wouldn't I'd refuse but that's because my morals are of higher standards than those that should protect us.

Scenario 2
Again those in power should ensure that the citizens should not be put into a position whereby their own morals need to be challenged, And again if those in power failed me and my family I would discuss my morals/values with the mother but for me personally I'd rather let this opportunity go and hope for better options even if it caused the death.


My morals/beliefs may differ from yours and I don't judge you so please stop judging me. It's my choice and that of my family I don't challenge your choices or that of your family. If you believe differently then that's up to you but in my heart I will always do what I believe is right for me and my family.

.MUFC.44 m ago

I think certain people should be refused organ donations if they need …I think certain people should be refused organ donations if they need them, i,e rapists, pedophiles, terrorists and murderers should be left to rot. If I needed a transplant, I wouldn't really be comfortable being the receipt-ant of a pedophiles heart etc.. I think I would rather die so I get philphils argument to a degree.However not knowing is probably a good thing because there isn't time to be selective, I'm happy to donate my organs and hope they would go to the right people that I would find worthy.


Your understanding is fully appreciated

I too, once I'm gone, couldn't/wouldn't care less where my organs go

But as you and I agree - we shouldn't be put in a position where these potential questionable scenarios need to part of the organ donation "scheme".

Someone serving life does not deserve to have their life prolonged.
Edited by: "philphil61" 9th Sep 2017

philphil6145 m ago

Scenario 1The morality of the government and justice system and the NHS …Scenario 1The morality of the government and justice system and the NHS should be challenged well before my morals should be judged. And if those in power failed then I wouldn't I'd refuse but that's because my morals are of higher standards than those that should protect us.Scenario 2Again those in power should ensure that the citizens should not be put into a position whereby their own morals need to be challenged, And again if those in power failed me and my family I would discuss my morals/values with the mother but for me personally I'd rather let this opportunity go and hope for better options even if it caused the death.My morals/beliefs may differ from yours and I don't judge you so please stop judging me. It's my choice and that of my family I don't challenge your choices or that of your family. If you believe differently then that's up to you but in my heart I will always do what I believe is right for me and my family.




I'm not judging I'm interested in your position.
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