ebay buyer claiming he has not.receied a parel

hi guys,

I sold an.item through eBay messaging as the item had an offer last minute and didn't get a chance to accept before the item item was a cheap laptop 100.

I sent the item and received a message claiming he has not received it , checking ups he received it was delivered yesterday with a signature as a line pretty much.

if this guy puts a claim in.via paypal will it go in my favour?

33 Comments

If he paid via PayPal Gift, then he can't raise a claim with PayPal.

If he paid via PayPal "Goods and Services" and he puts a claim in, he will likely win because the transaction was conducted via eBay Messaging, rather than a formal listing.

However, if you can provide tracking details that prove the parcel was delivered and signed for at the address listed on their PayPal account then they may (I say that very lightly!) go your side.

But to be fair, I think this more of a "there's a lesson to be learned" situation - relist your item and message the buyer to buy it via the formal listing.

This happened to me.

I sold a game via ebay. Buyer claimed they never received it and put a claim in. I provided a full reciept and proof it was signed for. Despite this eBay sided with the buyer and gave them a full refund.

eBay offer zero protection for sellers. Luckily it only happens rarely as most buyers are legitimate. I now will not accept bids from people with less than 25 feedback.

add the tracking details to listing via ebay that way he will lose any claim if you have proof was delivered... same thing happened to me ....might be he sent message before item was received

I had the same issue. confirmed delivery and even positive feedback. the buyer the claimed that the transaction was fraudulent although the item went to there eBay address. eBay sided with the buyer and also charged me the selling costs of the item....
like above try not to sell to new or persons under 50 feedbacks.

I'm hearing more and more horror stories of sellers being ripped off. Even with signed for/recorded delivery. It's putting me off using eBay to sell my tonnes of stuff I've been collecting to sell on. Sorry this has happened.m to you. Have you tried contacting UPS and see what kind of proof they can provide that they took it to the correct address?

Leonintelex

This happened to me.I sold a game via ebay. Buyer claimed they never … This happened to me.I sold a game via ebay. Buyer claimed they never received it and put a claim in. I provided a full reciept and proof it was signed for. Despite this eBay sided with the buyer and gave them a full refund.eBay offer zero protection for sellers. Luckily it only happens rarely as most buyers are legitimate. I now will not accept bids from people with less than 25 feedback.



​How do you reject bids from sellers with less than 25? Thanks in advance

Ive items on eBay with 99p p&P and people from Europe have placed orders. I just refunded there monies.

If you sold outside of eBay then eBay will quite understandably not have your back. Up until two years ago, Ebay almost always favoured the buyer and sided with buyers during most disputes. That changed almost two years ago. Sellers now have more protection but not when they sell outside of eBay if course.

PayPal are no longer owned by eBay and they now act as a traditional financial merchant and treat disputes fairly just as you would expect if you raised a chargeback with your Visa card for example.

Upload the tracking information to the PayPal transaction immediately which will let your buyer know that "you mean business". If he raises a dispute in PayPal, PayPal will look at his transaction history to see if he makes a habit of claiming non receipt. I doubt this is the first time he has pulled this trick. You have a signature for the acceptance of delivery even if it's a scribble. If this scribble isn't enough for PayPal to side with you in the event of a dispute, then you can take that up with UPS and make a claim with them as the driver should ensure that the signature is legible.

I have been selling on eBay for 15 years and have managed businesses sellers account for almost as long. Don't assume the worst. The new PayPal, now out of eBay ownership, is less automated, is more personal and more fair.

I could sell loads of items on eBay but I wont touch it because of the hassle it represents , why should sellers take risks ?

Original Poster

LeahMinttoutou

I'm hearing more and more horror stories of sellers being ripped off. … I'm hearing more and more horror stories of sellers being ripped off. Even with signed for/recorded delivery. It's putting me off using eBay to sell my tonnes of stuff I've been collecting to sell on. Sorry this has happened.m to you. Have you tried contacting UPS and see what kind of proof they can provide that they took it to the correct address?


i have just messaged the buyer to state it was signed up and provided the tracking. i hope although i know its unlikely he goes "oh it was left with a neighbour or with my x family member" ... i know its unlikely haha!

i will add the tracking number - good tip thanks.

jackvdbuk

i have just messaged the buyer to state it was signed up and provided the … i have just messaged the buyer to state it was signed up and provided the tracking. i hope although i know its unlikely he goes "oh it was left with a neighbour or with my x family member" ... i know its unlikely haha!i will add the tracking number - good tip thanks.


Yeah good idea. I tend to say to them can you please check with your neighbour or family members to see who signed for it. And state as it was signed for at THAT address. That gives them the opportunity to re-think the con and have an easy get out if they worry about what might happen, good luck with it
Also if you can try to withdraw your money from PayPal asap
Edited by: "LeahsMintytoutou" 1st Feb

One irritating issue is with couriers signing things as delivered and then delivering the item a day or two later. I think some delivery people do this to meet targets. Had it a few times over the years for various sized and priced items.

A neighbour yesterday asked if I had taken in a parcel as the Royal Mail left a note saying they had left the item with a neighbour. Apparently on the card they left, they did not state which neighbour. So this neighbour was going round asking at lots of properties! I suppose they may have filled the card in and then tried to leave it at another property. Not helpful to the person expecting to get their parcel though.

Hope it is something like this and you are not getting scammed.

Playing devils advocate I have had a few items over the years go missing due to the delivery firms issues
Examples include them attempting to deliver to my back garden shed that I have sometime found out cards at bottom of my garden after having been sat in waiting delivery.
Have been away when items delivered and stated signed for with my first name - check my neighbour who has same first name and no item.
Have had items delivered to similar looking addresses signed for and only found out by the honesty of that recipient.
Have had delicate items just left on my bin in public view (no secure location) and apparently signed for.
Most recently had a random name for my nieces xmas present and had to chase to ask who this person was as no address/card given of where left (only found name form checking tracking online was updated as waited delivery), none of my neighbours had it (or this name) and amazon (in this case) could not find who the delivery firm had given it to.
Above I have given years of examples where it has gone wrong just for me and to be fair the vast majority of deliveries I get are perfect but I am pointing out issues do happen.
If UPS have a signature but the recipient is saying they haven't received the item then the first question is to ask UPS to prove delivery and that they have not made a mistake. Not sure on UPS but quite a few firms now days take pictures of the delivery address they retain to protect themselves from fraud. However, if they are unable to prove delivery has been completed successfully then the buyer is entitled to a refund (regardless on your gut feeling) and you are due the value you insured the goods for from UPS. That is not saying you are wrong but neither can you "GUESS" the recipient is also.

I have stopped using PayPal without a credit card and eBay entirely after being ripped off too many times, as both a buyer and a seller.
Of 500 or so transactions, there have been at least 10 cases of fraud, the final straw being a guy who paid for a set of alloy wheels via PayPal and wanted to come and pick them up, then reversed the payment after collecting them. Despite the entire email chain being shared, PayPal found in his favour.
This was on top of someone refusing to refund £650 worth of tickets to a cancelled event, which PayPal again refused to find in my favour and several smaller cases where I paid for items and then the seller cleaned out their account and sent nothing and PayPal were unable to reclaim the money.

Gumtree is free and you get the cash in person.
PayPal without a credit card payment is just like playing Russian roulette. Every now and again you will be burned by some unscrupulous buyer/seller.

brooklynbrawler

I have stopped using PayPal without a credit card and eBay entirely after … I have stopped using PayPal without a credit card and eBay entirely after being ripped off too many times, as both a buyer and a seller.Of 500 or so transactions, there have been at least 10 cases of fraud, the final straw being a guy who paid for a set of alloy wheels via PayPal and wanted to come and pick them up, then reversed the payment after collecting them. Despite the entire email chain being shared, PayPal found in his favour.This was on top of someone refusing to refund £650 worth of tickets to a cancelled event, which PayPal again refused to find in my favour and several smaller cases where I paid for items and then the seller cleaned out their account and sent nothing and PayPal were unable to reclaim the money.Gumtree is free and you get the cash in person. PayPal without a credit card payment is just like playing Russian roulette. Every now and again you will be burned by some unscrupulous buyer/seller.


That's a commonly known scam but one I have never had as when someone has asked to pay via paypal and collect the goods I have informed them that I will only release to the car reg they provide in advance and that when they park this will be recorded getting into and out of this car on my cctv. For those without CCTV you could say you would take pictures from your phone just to protect yourself - most legitimate buyers of non adult related material are not going to have issues.
Edited by: "Bertz99" 1st Feb

Bertz99

That's a commonly known scam but one I have never had as when someone has … That's a commonly known scam but one I have never had as when someone has asked to pay via paypal and collect the goods I have informed them that I will only release to the car reg they provide in advance and that when they park this will be recorded getting into and out of this car on my cctv. For those without CCTV you could say you would take pictures from your phone just to protect yourself - most legitimate buyers of non adult related material are not going to have issues.


Yeah, I have just treated it as a 'You live, you learn' moment. Until it happens to you, you don't assume that people are going to so blatantly steal from you and you assume that there will be some repercussions, but the police were not interested in either case and neither were PayPal, so I am much more security and transaction conscious now. It's a shame that you have to be skeptical of everyone because of a few **** but hey...

try to sell on Gumtree, and if u sell on ebay, offer less price for people who collect and pay cash, for example i sold 4k TV other day, i put it for £400 and cash on collection without buy the price was £375, and TV was gone within a day, women came paid cash collected and i changed the listing for other item, ebay and paypal was going to charge me £25 anyway.
Edited by: "lindajane102361" 1st Feb

A little off topic but be careful which courier company you use to send laptops. Some do not provide insurance for screens including laptops.

Bertz99

That's a commonly known scam but one I have never had as when someone has … That's a commonly known scam but one I have never had as when someone has asked to pay via paypal and collect the goods I have informed them that I will only release to the car reg they provide in advance and that when they park this will be recorded getting into and out of this car on my cctv. For those without CCTV you could say you would take pictures from your phone just to protect yourself - most legitimate buyers of non adult related material are not going to have issues.



​I wouldn't do that either it makes no difference to paypal wether u have it all recorded or not any collection in person and u should never accept paypal it's no use trying be smart they don't care they just follow silly rules is there a tracking number which courier was it is it a well established one etc. no do u have a photo of the person whom collected it and it's exactly the same person we have on our system.

MynameisM

​I wouldn't do that either it makes no difference to paypal wether u have … ​I wouldn't do that either it makes no difference to paypal wether u have it all recorded or not any collection in person and u should never accept paypal it's no use trying be smart they don't care they just follow silly rules is there a tracking number which courier was it is it a well established one etc. no do u have a photo of the person whom collected it and it's exactly the same person we have on our system.


That's not exactly true they clearly state their terms - section 11.5 is the relevant section in them for seller protection with c and d talking about address. Below is their terms in reference to what you have stated and to paypal's reasonable satisfactions, this in in layman terms is saying effectively asking have you done everything reasonably expected in protecting both you and them. Asking a car reg in advance though the communication channels they supplied and taking photographic evidence on the recipients I think covers this easily.
paypal

Eligibility requirements c. and d. above do not apply to any item for … Eligibility requirements c. and d. above do not apply to any item for which you receive payment through the PayPal Location Based Payments Functionality, provided that you provide to PayPal proof (to PayPal’s reasonable satisfaction) that the item was collected by or delivered to the buyer.


There is of course the second part here of someone planning to defraud you being bright enough to setup all the hoops here to act on and then leaving themselves identifiable (you are unlikely to be the only one scammed in such a situation).
Although I would put it to you this way there are two ok bikes locked up in a public place in a city centre. One has locks hard enough to break to take 10 minutes to for a skilled thief to get past and the other (a cheaper bike) a few minutes - which one do you think gets stolen first and why?

shorty1892

Ive items on eBay with 99p p&P and people from Europe have placed orders. … Ive items on eBay with 99p p&P and people from Europe have placed orders. I just refunded there monies.



​you put it in the description in caps.

jackvdbuk

i have just messaged the buyer to state it was signed up and provided the … i have just messaged the buyer to state it was signed up and provided the tracking. i hope although i know its unlikely he goes "oh it was left with a neighbour or with my x family member" ... i know its unlikely haha!i will add the tracking number - good tip thanks.



Just had the same issue with a buyer and using UPS.

It is very likely that the parcel was delivered to a neighbour and the driver has failed to put a card through the original addresses door. Get in contact with UPS, they have a live chat service, then they will investigate. They responded to me within 24 hours providing me with the necessary information; they informed me that my parcel was left with a neighbour and provided me their name and door number. I then forwarded the information onto the buyer and they collected the parcel from them fine.

Although I thought you would have done the above already since your buyer has claimed they have not received the item. You cannot assume people are always lying and is most cases people are honest. I get you don't want to lose out but also put yourself in the buyer's shoes.

The contract with the courier is with yourself therefore if they have failed to deliver the item it is up to you to rectify the situation and make necessary complaints. Sorry it that sounds harsh, but it is the truth.

Edited by: "joshp" 1st Feb

Simple question, simple answer.

If the buyer puts a paypal claim in (for INR) and you did the following, you will win:

1. Posted it within 7 days.
2. Posted it to the address on the Paypal transaction.
3. Used a trackable service which is viewable online.
4. Is showing the status of "delivered".

You don't need a signature.

probably to u but a registration plate isn't sufficient to some others like paypal numerous people have been conned out of perfectly good phones by buyers whom send back a different phone with a differnet IMEI number. even after showing proof of the phone they sent. for the bike analysis I have no idea but thief's nick whatever is easiest to them usually they don't think about costs to others in general hey will smash a cars window to nick a few pennies they don't care if it's going cost some one hundreds to repair the glass. but why go through all the hassle and fees plod paypal for a collection it's not any better. the person may just say it was someone else who hacked my account what good will fake number plates and a face of a lowlife going do for u when u send it into paypal other than waste ur time and most likely no refund.

Next time be careful with eBay.....too many scammers out there recently. You have 50/50 here and PayPal might be your side. A lot worst, when buyer reports item as broken/faulty. PayPal accepts return and does chargeback-sellers receives empty box back. To prove PayPal that this was a case is same as banging head to the wall....My few mates lost big sums of money, as PayPal is always on buyers side..

Rimi

Next time be careful with eBay.....too many scammers out there recently. … Next time be careful with eBay.....too many scammers out there recently. You have 50/50 here and PayPal might be your side. A lot worst, when buyer reports item as broken/faulty. PayPal accepts return and does chargeback-sellers receives empty box back. To prove PayPal that this was a case is same as banging head to the wall....My few mates lost big sums of money, as PayPal is always on buyers side..



​contact bertz99 he will sort it out for u.

thetarget

A little off topic but be careful which courier company you use to send … A little off topic but be careful which courier company you use to send laptops. Some do not provide insurance for screens including laptops.



Which couriers are these?

my guess would be spelling mistakes in the address..

Ferris

Which couriers are these?



I was sent a laptop via Parcel Force which did thankfully arrive fine. However I have seen Parcel Force do not compensate for screens including laptops where damage occurs. See:

parcelforce.com/hel…ion

Some other courier companies may have a similar policy.

Ebay are very honest And few get past their rules To keep The scammers And hustlers out....If YOU opt for free mail YOU are not covered by tracking they may not side with YOU...The seller fees cover instances such As this always offer tracking i did
when i sold hair weave i didnt make a penny but somebody will try it

45scam

Ebay are very honest And few get past their rules To keep The … Ebay are very honest And few get past their rules To keep The scammers And hustlers out....If YOU opt for free mail YOU are not covered by tracking they may not side with YOU...The seller fees cover instances such As this always offer tracking i did when i sold hair weave i didnt make a penny but somebody will try it



Used to be. Not now.
I know two recent cases, where mates lost big sums of money and all sold through eBay .
One sold iPhone 7 for £650 and buyer claimed that phone faulty and doesn't switch on. PayPal accepted return and reversed charges to seller. Buyer(scammer) sent back empty box by tracked delivery. In final - PayPal refused to refund for seller-no explanation.
Another sold Samsung Galaxy S7 for £430 and buyer also claimed phone is faulty. PayPal , again, accepted return and refunded money to buyer from sellers PayPal. Seller received phone box, full of sweets. PayPal doesn't want to hear anything and closed case.
Thats two different persons form different places but same outcome. Reported to Action Fraud and police - useless.
So think twice next time if selling high value items on eBay.....

MynameisM

​contact bertz99 he will sort it out for u.


You're just weird

Edited by: "Bertz99" 3rd Feb

MynameisM

probably to u but a registration plate isn't sufficient to some others … probably to u but a registration plate isn't sufficient to some others like paypal numerous people have been conned out of perfectly good phones by buyers whom send back a different phone with a differnet IMEI number. even after showing proof of the phone they sent. for the bike analysis I have no idea but thief's nick whatever is easiest to them usually they don't think about costs to others in general hey will smash a cars window to nick a few pennies they don't care if it's going cost some one hundreds to repair the glass. but why go through all the hassle and fees plod paypal for a collection it's not any better. the person may just say it was someone else who hacked my account what good will fake number plates and a face of a lowlife going do for u when u send it into paypal other than waste ur time and most likely no refund.


It's not down to me - it is down to the legal term of what reasonable means and the recourse available to you if you think PayPal are not being reasonable as they state within their terms. It is not the car reg itself but the method to have agreement to collect in advance and the ability to prove this was followed to reasonably protect both you and PayPal.
How does someone who collects and inspects a used phone send it back?(distance selling regs do not fit here)- think you are wanting to discuss a different type of fraud than the pay, collect and then reverse charge by stating none reciept of goods!
On the bike analogy you are correct they go for easiest target with minimal risk to themselves. I just don't see someone being sophisticated enough to have fake registered paypal accounts along with fake plates, (your suggestion) would want to knowingly arrange recording themselves committing said crime where the less risky approach would be praying on those, who are unfortunately, easier pickings.


Edited by: "Bertz99" 3rd Feb
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