Ebay - Buyer reversed payment for concert tickets

77
Found 24th Jul 2012
I had two spare tickets for a concert this week. I put them on ebay as "Buy It Now". Around a week ago a new buyer bought the tickets and paid via PayPal. I checked PayPal and I received the balance and everything was confirmed as far as I knew.

I emailed the buyer when I saw that they won the auction to say that I would try to send the tickets the next day. I couldn't send the next day so I emailed them to let them know I would send the following day. I sent the tickets through Royal Mail Special Delivery. They didn't respond to my emails but I thought that may be as I said what I was going to do, so they knew the progress and didn't need to ask anything else. Paypal was still ok when I sent.

I still have the postage receipt (proof of postage) and I have checked the tracking number this morning and the tickets have been signed for, with the name of the person that ordered the tickets. I sent the tickets to the confirmed PayPal address.

This is a part of the email I got from ebay:
"We were recently notified that a payment you received was reversed by the buyer’s bank. A bank reversal can be requested by the bank itself or the bank account holder."

What is likely to happen?

Also can I do anything about the tickets, can I get them cancelled / re-issued as I would rather this person doesn't get to use them if they are trying to scam me, which it looks like to me.

My Paypal account is now in negative balance. I arranged to buy something from somebody yesterday and agreed to pay them by ppg, beacuse of the negative balance I got charged an £1.05 fee to make the payment, even though I tried to pay the negative balance, they/paypal says that it can take upto 3-4 days for them to receive the payment.

Any advice or tip appreciated, I guess I won't be dealing with low feedback sellers any more and Paypal has left a salty taste in my mouth as well, the only info I got from them was the one email, logging onto paypal I couldn't see the situation explained, just that I had a negative balance in red, I went to pay and see the below.

Although we have sent numerous communications to you, we have not received reimbursement for this negative balance. If you do not add funds immediately, we may turn your account over to a collection agency or to our lawyers to recover the money owed.To add funds from your bank account, enter the information below and click Submit.

By the way I have not contacted the buyer yet.
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77 Comments
So it looks like the buyer has actually contacted his/her bank and used the direct debit guarantee to get the money back, an interesting scam by the looks of things.

Paypal are a pain in the ass with things like this, they rarely look at your emails correctly and use auto response mails, you can call them but they are almost as useless as with emails.

End of the day, you sold an item, they paid for it, Paypal have not received the money from the buyer due to a chargeback, so in my eyes it is their fault, you pay fees for a reason, and this is one of the reasons. Just keep answering emails by saying the chargeback is nothing to do with you and their beef is with the buyer as you did all that was requested of you, only issue is you can't use your PP account while this is going on.
tinkerbell28

Looks like the dd has bounced. Or been cancelled at the bank. No … Looks like the dd has bounced. Or been cancelled at the bank. No protection for you whatsoever. Cancel the tickets if you can.



I find it very hard how PP can hold the seller liable to this sort of chargeback, surely it is the buyers responsibility.
tinkerbell28

When a dd bounces, either by lack of funds or cancellation. Then this is … When a dd bounces, either by lack of funds or cancellation. Then this is what happens. It's wrong, but that's the way it is. The seller isn't at fault, the buyer is.Still PayPal won't take the hit for a bounced dd, the seller does. It's one thing that's not covered by seller protection, never has been. Unless something has drastically changed. It's all in the small print. Funds in your pp account, don't actually meant cleared funds and can be reversed. If the buyer pays by DD PayPal front the money. If the dd failed, they reverse it.



Shocking isn't it, don't think it would hold up in a court of law though. Just a shame as fighting it would render the PP account useless.
Tell the buyer you have their registered address and will take legal unless they contact you.

What is their feedback rating on ebay?
I would complain to Ebay/Paypal on the basis that they confirmed the receipt of monies by way of showing in your account and on that basis they should be responsible.

Then tell them that as there has been a clear breach of the Law by one party involved in the transaction that you are going to report the matter to the Police.

Make sure you do report it and pass the crime number that you receive on to Paypal, so that they will be aware of an investigation that will take place.

Contact the ticket agency that you purchased the tickets from and perhaps even the venue to alert them to the fraudulent tickets that will be used to access the event.

At this point I would not alert the buyer to the fact that you have called the Police, so that they can have the knock on the door without prior knowledge.
Thing is, if the seller protection does not protect you from this happening, they could take money off you from years ago, pathetic if you ask me.
Sometimes if you push hard enough and keep at it, it becomes costly in terms of time and effort for large companies and become easier to refund small amounts.

I did it last year with Paypal regarding what turned out to be a dodgy buyer and after initially being fobbed off, I pushed and pushed until they eventually relented and refunded money.
I think the first thing to do is pull up the buyers details on ebay and try and contact them to see if it has been cancelled accidentally or to find out what has happened. Second thing to do would be to contact paypal ann state you have the receipt and it has been signed for and see what they say. Third thing see if you can cancel the tickets.
Reading through your story again, you didn't seem to indicate whether you had contacted the buyer since receiving the message from ebay.

I guess there may be instances where mistakes are made and perhaps the buyer is not yet aware of this, so perhaps seeking initial clarification from them is probably the best first step.
reddit

Reading through your story again, you didn't seem to indicate whether you … Reading through your story again, you didn't seem to indicate whether you had contacted the buyer since receiving the message from ebay.I guess there may be instances where mistakes are made and perhaps the buyer is not yet aware of this, so perhaps seeking initial clarification from them is probably the best first step.



"By the way I have not contacted the buyer yet. " - Last line
maybe they dont like people scalping tickets?
reddit

Reading through your story again, you didn't seem to indicate whether you … Reading through your story again, you didn't seem to indicate whether you had contacted the buyer since receiving the message from ebay.I guess there may be instances where mistakes are made and perhaps the buyer is not yet aware of this, so perhaps seeking initial clarification from them is probably the best first step.



this, I've had payments bounce like this, contacted the buyer and they didn't seem to know anything about it, paid again straight away and everything was fine.
tinkerbell28

No they couldn't. This happens when a DD bounces or is cancelled. Which … No they couldn't. This happens when a DD bounces or is cancelled. Which is really rare.....as once people start bouncing dds, they have to pay by card. So PayPal don't front any money, there is no reversal, as there is no risk of bouncing. They get real time authorisations.It takes about 5-10 days dependant for pp to realise a dd has bounced. You are covered for dodgy claims, chargebacks etc. just not bounced payments.



Anyone could cancel a DD saying it was unauthorised from years ago with the DD guarantee.
Are concerts tickets covered on PayPal?
garbage456

Tell the buyer you have their registered address and will take legal … Tell the buyer you have their registered address and will take legal unless they contact you.What is their feedback rating on ebay?



There feedback was 0 and still is 0. I did wonder at first but then I saw that the payment was confirmed and I thought everybody has to start somewhere, plus I got the money. The fact that they got 0 feedback makes me think that they intentionally wanted to scam me or whoever from the go.

I didn't want to contact them straight away as the tickets are e-tickets that can be printed of again (I sent them by post though to be covered by paypal). My gut feeling is that this is a scam and I was thinking or considering, maybe I could print of the tickets and give them to anybody else that I know to use and tell them to get there when the gates open, to void the buyers tickets, rather then the buyer having the tickets for free and leaving me with the bill to pick up. But, maybe that's a bit over the top... and I thought if its a scam and I couldn't cancel tickets this would be my only come back so that this person doesn't fully scam me and I was thinking that if I alerted them maybe they would make sure they get there early.

I was also thinking of emailing the buyer through ebay just to ask if they have received the tickets and not mentioning anything. What do you think, or am I better off just being direct?
Edited by: "jg213" 24th Jul 2012
You have their address... Hunt them down.
I had this on amazon, I gave amazon the proof of delivery (like you a special delivery tracking number) and I won the A-Z case. The buyer did this to me many months after the purchase, probably hoping I'd lose the receipt.
What is the point of emailing the buyer? get the details off ebay and call them, that way you will see if its a working phone number or a random one put down, but calling is a hell of a lot faster then emailing.
littlepinkstarz

What is the point of emailing the buyer? get the details off ebay and … What is the point of emailing the buyer? get the details off ebay and call them, that way you will see if its a working phone number or a random one put down, but calling is a hell of a lot faster then emailing.



okay, I'll try that. I have never tried to call somebody on ebay but it shouldnt be too hard to find their number.
As far as i remember just go onto your ebay then to the item you sold and click the option bit and it should come up with contact details. If it is a scammer they will have not put down a working number which means you can then then report them for having incorrect details.
I've had a look and try of getting the buyer's contact info but I can't find it, it only seems to give me the option to email the buyer. I also went to Customer Support, Searched for "Contact Information" and then I get the below

Here's some information that might help
If the buyer has won your item, you can contact them:

- by email - the buyer's email address is at the end of the 'Item sold' message.
- through the find contact information page. Just enter their user ID and item number and click 'Search'.

When I click "find contact information" it takes me to the normal "Categories View" page.
It will be on your sellers dashboard, under action then click on more action. The option is beside where you see the little icons for payment, dispatch ect
As it a bank chargeback all you need to defend that is proof of postage. Money saving expert has a really good Ebay forum with lots of knowledgeable people.
ring up where you bought them from i.e ticket master and they will cancel those tickets so that when scanned they scan void, hey will re issue you tickets to pick up on the night from the box office.
littlepinkstarz

It will be on your sellers dashboard, under action then click on more … It will be on your sellers dashboard, under action then click on more action. The option is beside where you see the little icons for payment, dispatch ect



Are you talking about this bit?

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4541/scam1py.jpg

Contact Buyer only lets me send the buyer an email. View Order Details just shows me the payment confirmation screen with there address.

Edited by: "jg213" 24th Jul 2012
jg213

okay, I'll try that. I have never tried to call somebody on ebay but it … okay, I'll try that. I have never tried to call somebody on ebay but it shouldnt be too hard to find their number.



you have their name and address.
Next step - directory enquires ... or the p oofs with mustaches
trs020382

ring up where you bought them from i.e ticket master and they will cancel … ring up where you bought them from i.e ticket master and they will cancel those tickets so that when scanned they scan void, hey will re issue you tickets to pick up on the night from the box office.



I'll try that thanks.
okay, I'm going to send this by ebay email to the buyer, does it look reasonable? or should I add more, I'm not sure what angle to take. I'll probably send it by about / around 3 - 3.30pm. I'm off work this week and this is what Im spending my time doing, stressing about this lol not a laughing matter but somethimes the only thing you can do is laugh.

Hello ******

There seems to be a problem with the payment for the items that you bought from me. Paypal have contacted me to inform me that the funds that I received from you for my items have been put on hold and that they are investigating. I would appreciate if you could contact me so that we can talk about this problem.

kind regards

*******
Edited by: "jg213" 24th Jul 2012
Oh, I've also emailed Paypal the tracking number and a quick description of my events. It / Paypal said that the online tracking number wasn't recognised but I think thats just because I just submitted it and probably somebody from Paypal need to manually verify it?
Edited by: "jg213" 24th Jul 2012
Why don't you say something like "if you don't respond by tomorrow morning, I will have to contact tickmaster to void the tickets". This may get him to respond or at least acknowledge the tickets he has might not be usable.
dave_lunt2

Why don't you say something like "if you don't respond by tomorrow … Why don't you say something like "if you don't respond by tomorrow morning, I will have to contact tickmaster to void the tickets". This may get him to respond or at least acknowledge the tickets he has might not be usable.



That's a point, but if they are trying to scam me, I would rather let them go to the concert to find out the tickets are void, call me evil but hey, if that's the only re course I might get out of it, (them getting turned away at the door). But maybe you're right, saying that would likely get them to respond than not saying that.

Because they have no feedback I don't have much hope in them not being a scammer, I took a risk in dealing with them as I had the money but it backfired on me. For all I know, thinking about it it could be some sort of fraud going on?

Sorry Tickerbell or anybody how can you tell if it's a chargeback or bounced payment. If it was a chargeback by the buyer, I'm guessing from what is said I could get the money back? but if it's bounced payment I wont be entitles to anything.
Edited by: "jg213" 24th Jul 2012
Its strange maybe paypal transaction but you can usually see the address and phone number. I think you need to phone up paypal and find out whats going on.
~How can this be? Paypal is safe, everyone knows this, it says so on their website......
littlepinkstarz

Its strange maybe paypal transaction but you can usually see the address … Its strange maybe paypal transaction but you can usually see the address and phone number. I think you need to phone up paypal and find out whats going on.



No, it just has their address, their address is confirmed at least.

Its bloody hard to find a contact number on these big sites to speak to them. I'm looking for Paypal number but I want to get out for abit. The sun is calling me lol
Edited by: "jg213" 24th Jul 2012
I wouldn't worry too much if you have provided Paypal with proof of delivery to a confirmed address then you shouldn't lose out.

Payment reversals have happened to me twice, the first was some form of error and after emailing the buyer they made payment again and everything was fine.

The second time was very similar to what is happening with you. I emailed the buyer numerous times with no response. I won my case though as I pointed out very bluntly to Paypal that I had sent the item to a CONFIRMED address, and that the case hadn't been opened due to non receipt thus the buyer had the item (whether or not they had paid for it), and was trying to get a refund. This seemed to do the trick, and I didn't have proof of delivery, I only had proof of postage!
silkymolo

I wouldn't worry too much if you have provided Paypal with proof of … I wouldn't worry too much if you have provided Paypal with proof of delivery to a confirmed address then you shouldn't lose out.Payment reversals have happened to me twice, the first was some form of error and after emailing the buyer they made payment again and everything was fine.The second time was very similar to what is happening with you. I emailed the buyer numerous times with no response. I won my case though as I pointed out very bluntly to Paypal that I had sent the item to a CONFIRMED address, and that the case hadn't been opened due to non receipt thus the buyer had the item (whether or not they had paid for it), and was trying to get a refund. This seemed to do the trick, and I didn't have proof of delivery, I only had proof of postage!



It has been said in this thread at least 2 times, it is not a reversal, it is a direct debit bounceback which is a different matter.
Sorry Tink I did yeah, just because I wrote something about my experience with Paypal and got quite a rude reply (not from you), so thought better of it after writing a second time. Like you quoted me though My email was exactly the same. Paypal never tell you exactly what goes on it's all very hush hush until resolved.

All I know is that I wasn't left out of pocket in a similar situation!
tinkerbell28

Yours sounds like a fraud chargeback. Which is why a pop was enough. If … Yours sounds like a fraud chargeback. Which is why a pop was enough. If the bank claimed unauthorised and you had a pop, to the right address, they do cover you and fight with the bank for their money back.



Fair enough
I sent the buyer an email around 3.15pm earlier today, the buyer still has not responded (I just checked 22.45 before submitting this post). The buyer has not responded to any emails, although to be fair only the last one would be expected to be replied to as the others were telling them when I was going to deliver and providing them with the tracking details and ticket numbers when I sent the items.

Going to the Resolution Centre in Paypal and clicking on the "Cases" option the heading is Unauthorised Payment Details and then lists the transaction details etc. Does that heading imply that the buyers account has been used fraudulently?

I input the Royal Mail Special Delivery on-line tracking number earlier in paypal, which if they check shows that it has been signed for with the paypal/ebay account holders name and signature(if theirs) on the 19/7/12. What I'm wondering is, do you think that I should also scan the Royal mail tracking number receipt to prove when it was posted or do you think that just them checking the tracking number should be enough?



Edited by: "jg213" 24th Jul 2012
You should get their number and call them - you will find out much faster what is going on!

In Ebay click 'Advanced' near top of page to right of 'Search'
On left under 'Members' click 'Find Contact Information'
Enter their username and the item number of the transaction
You will get an email with their details including phone number

Let us know!

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