A buyer has opened a case against me saying the item wasn't received, but my tracking says delivered. They didn't even message me first, just opened a case. I have provided tracking and they said they asked around, but still nothing.
What should I do? I understand eBay will most likely refund the buyer out of their own pocket and also investigate them further as I provided tracking, but do I need to do anything else on the case itself? Or just wait for eBay to step in? I don't want my account to be closed!
What should I do? I understand eBay will most likely refund the buyer out of their own pocket and also investigate them further as I provided tracking, but do I need to do anything else on the case itself? Or just wait for eBay to step in? I don't want my account to be closed!
40 Comments
sorted byIf the buyer opens an ebay case, then they're on their own.
For the case:
Step 2: Wait for the case to get past the 'seller make it right' period (3 working days I think), then contact eBay.
They will close the case in your favour and any negative feedback will be removed as long as the item was delivered within the promised timescale.
is there a picture from your courier with your parcel at the address? (edited)
I've had these muppets say they have delivered my parcels only to find one behind a wheelie bin (no note through the door) and another said delivered and it actually arrived a week later! (edited)
No photo unfortunately. Just a Google maps image! Good idea to ping eBay first though!
Ok thank you 🤠🤠 (edited)
I got the money reimbursed and the buyers got their product - as I believe it was delivered to them - just the RM guy was slow updating the status....
No need to waste your time doing this just escalate when it allows, eBay will close the case in your favour.
I have not lost any challenges to a small number of claimed tracking PoDs based on lack of "physical possession" transferred risk.
Example: courier produces likely accurate "it's been delivered to postcode location" PoD but is unable to show how the parcel legitimately came into my/the recipient's possession.
Most recently was a delivery to a correct postcode and building but communal area (straightforward S75 claim found in my favour in 48hrs) where the courier was correctly unable to satisfy the legal requirements of Consumer Rights Act 2015 Section 29 relating to passing of risk (paraphrasing: courier failed to ensure the delivery location was only accessible to me).
Previous was a doorstep drop+run where parcel lasted less than 2 mins before it was lifted.
Not always clear who funds the refund. I suspect the most recent sub-£5 claim was funded by the card co as the refund does not show on my PP account, which is disappointing as the blatantly arrogant seller may have escaped the £14 PP chargeback fee (I deliberately chose to bypass the farcical PayPal buyer poortection).
Like most protection mechanisms this legislation is likely open to abuse by the consumer however I suspect most consumers would likely take the loss rather than bother claim for a legitimately under-performed delivery.
ebay purchases are eligible for chargeback.
Whether or not the card issuer / bank will accept the claim will depend on the claim's merits.
ebay credit-funded purchases are still eligible for chargeback, but ebay S75 credit purchase protection is likely not possible from Oct 2021 as there is no obvious way to purchase via S75-qualifying credit from that date.
ebay case decisions have no impact on the outcome of a chargeback claim, other than the seller or buyer cannot benefit from both.
For example if ebay found a case in favour of the seller, the buyer could file a chargeback claim and justify that claim to the card issuer / bank.
If the CI/bank found in buyer's favour, the bank would refund the buyer and charge PayPal the CB amount.
PayPal would then charge ebay the CB amount plus its £14 chargeback processing fee;
ebay would then dip the seller for the CB amount plus £14 i.e. it would cost the seller the price of the item+shipping plus £14,
or ebay may choose to take the item+shipping plus £14 on the chin = unlikely.
The £14 fee to the non-performing seller is why as a buyer I would normally bypass a farcical ebay/PP poortection claim and go straight to chargeback, especially if the claim was a non-performing warranty / CRA S9 issue as PayPal poortection does not cover warranty / CRA S9 claims.
It will "be OK" if the courier can show passing of risk as defined by CRA.
If not, buyer can still raise claim regardless of ebay decree rubbish, and if your courier cannot satisfy CRA PoR buyer will win a chargeback claim by default.
No real issue other than hassle as you as the seller can attempt to claim against courier for any non-performance to terms of carriage and/or insurance.
Liking your own comment?
Sold an item on eBay which showed as delivered. The name under the sig was the same as the buyer.
The buyer claimed it wasn't their sig and they never received the item. They opened a case on eBay which was closed in my favour.
A week or 2 later, the case was opened again as the buyer started a chargeback. I gave the evidence I could and despite eBay assuring me I would win, I lost.
eBay hit me for the £14 fee and took the full amount(£70) back from me. They claim they had no choice as the buyer did a chargeback.
After some back and forth, they refunded me the £14 fee but kept the full amount for the item. No courtesy refund in my case.
It's the first time it's happened in hundreds of sales so not the end of the world. I am surprised I lost out based on reading other people stories regarding situations like this.
And people will still say "I bought this from you and you send me nothing!"
If it is signed for and it says CV19, that means the postman/woman just put it through the door, left it somewhere or with a neighbour. They are still doing this (my last parcel sent said CV19).
If seller('s courier) cannot show legitimate passing of risk, buyer will be able to bypass ebay / PayPal poortection rubbish and file & very likely win a Consumer Rights Act 2015 Section 29 chargeback claim, regardless of whatever drivel ebay may have autonomously decreed.
Seller can then attempt to claim on insurance from the courier, although I suspect most couriers would reject the claim as the courier will cite its likely farcically inadequate PoD as being sufficient.
May not be a scam as parcel might have been stolen by courier or left outside the door where someone has grabbed it, happens quite a few times.
If what you say is true then there would be such type of scams happening all the time. (edited)
New to this process? Do you file a case with the credit card company ? Is a debit cards valid ?
Didn’t know you can do this outside of eBay.
So if I have a package go missing I can go direct through the credit card company ?
I have had a few packages go missing eBay mostly as I’m in a big building in central london, over 40 flats, drivers keep leaving stuff at the entrance of building as the Don’t want to go up stairs or leave at my apartment door sometimes, so many people come & go stuff goes missing often, eBay seem to only require a tracking number to rule in favour of seller ? (edited)
Consumer Rights Act 2015 Section 29 states:
29 Passing of risk...
(2) The goods remain at the trader's risk until they come into the physical possession of —
(a) the consumer...
legislation.gov.uk/ukp…/29
where dumping a package in say a lobby clearly does not satisfy "coming into the physical possession of the consumer" as by default the package is clearly coming into the "possession"(?) of a building accessible to multiple people.
Similarly, a doorstep drop&run delivery leaves the package exposed to passing members of the public regardless of being on the recipient's property.
If the package was placed through the recipient's individual/exclusive letterbox or into the hands of a person in the recipient's personal living space then the passing of risk would be satisfied. The only really questionable case is for HMOs, but it would reasonably be expected for HMOs to have individual letterboxes.
ebay / PayPal farcical poortection cannot override statutory legislation. ebay can autonomously decree whatever if wants but the buyer still has options to resolution via chargeback or S75 and/or legal route of MCOL if the buyer is that way inclined.
Card / bank chargeback opportunities are typically available for 120 days after scheduled delivery which.co.uk/con…T8q
S75 credit unsatisfied CRA S29 purchase protection has stronger clout as it is statutory, although S75 has not been possible for an ebay purchase since about October 2021, unless somebody knows a workaround.
Rm insisting it was delivered at location as per GPS so was at the correct address but I’ve argued that the flat isn’t the correct address as it was still the wrong door number.. im still awaiting the postal review response. I am currently dealing with RM for the customer but I can’t fork out £600 back to the customer especially when Royal Mail couldn’t be bothered to deliver to the right person!
Ok so charge back doesn’t work for eBay items ? When a chargeback happens or use to happen for eBay items before it was stopped , who paid that out ? I guess eBay has to take on the cost if they already ruled in favour of seller
How do you know buyer was refunded?
Wow, so they might have lied and still got a refund.
So the buyer just raises it with the card company and they deal with both shipping company & eBay ?
What is stopping people doing this all the time ? Seems a bit of setup for scammers to take advantage ?
Is it just credit cards that offer the protection or debit same ?
I have a bunch of credit cards & debit, I never put any thought when making a purchase to pick a specific card planning ahead in case of problem with purchase.
Do you recommend one over the other ?
So the bank / card has power over eBay / PayPal ?
How can they be sure the buyer is not a scammer, received item but claiming chargeback.
What about services ? If I go for a massage and the masseuse doesn’t smell good causes me pain which defeats the purpose of the massage can I do a charge back?
( not that I have ever faced this problem lol, just wondering how far the chargeback thing goes ? )
How do good genuine hardworking family business protect against it ?
I remember a guy that ran a small business like an Airbnb platform, he had the website.
he told me he got chargebacks all the time,
weeks after people went on holiday, he was fighting them constantly.
Can’t be good for someone like that seems a bit one sided
Yeah good comment ? Can’t vote down it’s only up
Don’t get it ? Everyone got refunded lol
I don’t think so dude,
looks like they appealed reversing the decision.
So it was ruled in your favour then it got reversed.
Check your seller account will be minus again for this transaction, look at statement section which shows every transaction.
EBay won’t be out of pocket that’s obvious, it’s you or the buyer. You are covered by your insurance. (edited)
ebay will occasionally self-fund claims to keep either buyer or seller sweet as by otherwise not doing so may jeopardise potential future business with what may a prolific buyer / seller.
It is the nature of the beast.
Multiple Qs in one post but to cover the basics:
can raise chargeback claims against payment methods of credit (card or account), debit card and bank transfers.
Bank transfer chargebacks tend to be limited to unauthorised activity only.
Debit card & credit card chargebacks have time limitation of 120days from (expected) delivery; longer on pre-orders.
Credit card and credit accounts have additional protection if the purchase qualifies for S75 protection where the credit provider becomes jointly liable for the purchase with the supplier, where the minimum S75 qualifiers are typically:
direct payment to merchant;
(each) individual item cost over £100 with at least 1p paid via credit;
purchase by primary credit accountholder.
PayPal purchases have poortection applying to exclusively two scenarios and nothing more: "Item Not Received" and "Significantly Not as Described" for up to 180 days.
Quick order of protection benefits:
Obvious benefit to pay for any item qualifying for S75 via credit card / account, although consider it has likely not been possible to qualify for S75 for ebay purchase since ebay introduced its "managed payments" or equivalent rubbish around October 2021.
Second preference, and for individual items less than £100: PayPal, but noting PayPal Pootection offers no warranty support nor-equivalent, so for example PP will not assist if the item you purchase packs up in month two after purchase, but you could raise a chargeback claim (up to 120 days after product receipt) if the purchase was funded by a card (hint: consider negs of using PayPal balances to fund purchases).
Bank transfer absolutely last resort, and only if you are comfortable with a reckless purchase, although why?
All above supplement whatever consumer / legal options are available, although limited if the supplier is not UK based, unless S75 applies.
The masseuse example:
any issue would reasonably be stated/discussed at the time of service. If no agreement was obtained from that discussion the customer could consider chargeback or other redress such as LBA+MCOL. As for all chargeback claims, the customer would need to credibly show why the chargeback claim was legitimate.
I honestly doubt they do that unless you have been in communication with a buyer or seller that confirmed this after you got your refund.
First time I hear someone stating both sides got a refund as seller is supposed to get refund from insurance.
Nothing stopping the seller claiming insurance if above is true (edited)
Many posts on this forum about ebay directly funding solution without clawback from the opposing seller, buyer or payment mechanism.
There was a thread on here early
20002020 about a £300 courtesy ebay refund, originating from a 30min YT vid about a professional ebay seller couple who shifted a new headlight, buyer posted glowing FB, then some time later bounced it back for a refund saying it was physically damaged on receipt, resulting in auto-refund and obvsly seller not happy taking the hit.V long story but ebay eventually made courtesy full refund to the out-of-pocket seller.
At least two YT vids tell the story.
First 30min YT vid sets out what happened & the original ebay farcical policy response: v=g2dAa-afItU
Second vid at 1hr+ mentions the ebay apology letter and courtesy refund more than once, but most concisely between 19m45s and 15:58 v=miJwqkAM1NE (edited)
That is early 2000, I’m not sure if that is still happening in 2021. Hopefully someone that heard from other party can verify
Apologies: 2020 not 2000
Corrected previous typo!
...and this year is 2022 not 2021...
Even though I have escalated it to RM Postal Review the buyer now saying I should refund him even though eBay have closed the case in my favour.. as it delivered. This is a signed for item that is valued at £600 (edited)
CRA Section 29 states the sender holds the risk until the goods come into the possession of the consumer.
Delivery to a building will generally not satisfy that passing of risk unless the consumer has sole access to the building.
That legislation applies to "traders" but will likely be accepted as applying to other transactions; certainly a card payment chargeback would likely be successful against a contested delivery to multi-occupancy building, and for a genuine £600 claim I imagine most (non)recipients would consider MCOL if there was no chargeback route.