eBay case, item lost during delivery

49
Found 5th Feb
Hi, I recently sold a watch on eBay but it seems to have been lost somehow but the story seems a bit fishy. It all could be genuine from what I’ve heard about couriers but I’d like to know what you guys think of it.

i sold a watch and sent it via courier (parcel2go/Hermes) tracked but not signed for, it was marked as “delivered to outbuilding” on Friday (2nd feb) but I got an email on Saturday asked where the item was even though I sent the tracking number through as soon as it was posted. He claimed the tracking didn’t work but messaged me a day after it was delivered and has flooded me with emails in a single day.

i have since opened a case with the courier who are investigating. Just today the buyer has opened a dispute with eBay.
here are the email still in reverse order:

BUYER:

Cool we will leave it till Monday.

YOU:

I understand that but also somebody has my parcel if you know what I mean.

parcel2go.com/tra…ing

PGXXXXXXXXX

BUYER:

That’s fine but I don’t have the item I paid for and the tracking number you put on the page does not work. ?

YOU:

No signature is required. Listen up mate, I’ve lost out here and somebody has the parcel so no refund will be given until I’ve heard from the courier.

BUYER:

Ok so I’ll wait till Monday. You still didn’t answer the question. Did you get it posted so it needed to be signed for.

YOU:

It’s the weekend so I don’t know yet

BUYER:

How long did they say it would take to find out.

YOU:

I obviously want to know where it is too, we’ll know more once I hear from the courier.

BUYER:

I am a patient person but I would want to know where it is. And did it need to be signed for.

YOU:

Please be patient, Hermes will be investigating as to where it was delivered and I have lost out here so would also like to here what Hermes has to say.

BUYER:

Hi have you heard anything back. If you don’t I would like my money back please.

YOU:

I’m waiting to hear back from the courier as to where exactly he put it.

BUYER:

I have checked with the neighbors both sides and nothing and they are good people.

YOU:

Ok I will contact the courier and find out exactly where they put it.

BUYER:

There is no where to hide it.

YOU:

Have you checked the shed or and any other place in the garden because it’s definitely been delivered.

BUYER:

I have had no item delivered to my house.

YOU:

Hi, the tracking says that it was delivered yesterday.

02/02/2018 - 15:41 Delivered to Outbuilding
02/02/2018 - 09:22 Courier Received
02/02/2018 - 06:05 Manifested for Delivery
02/02/2018 - 06:02 Out For Delivery To Courier
02/02/2018 - 04:36 Processed at Depot
01/02/2018 - 13:19 Receipt at Hub
29/01/2018 - 18:37 Arrived @ Depot
29/01/2018 - 15:28 Collected from ParcelShop
27/01/2018 - 15:00 Customer Sent via ParcelShop

BUYER:

Hi just wondering why item has not arrived yet.
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49 Comments
Sounds like they are trying it on to me
jpoolfitz4 m ago

Sounds like they are trying it on to me


- A day after delivery they’re wanting a refund rather than actually caring about where it could be
- Saying no delivery has been made to their “house” when tracking says delivered to outbuilding.
- Telling me tracking doesn’t work when it clearly does.

its all looking very dodgy
I think that as he didn’t need to sign for it he has taken it from the place that they left it knowing full well that you can’t prove he has it and is trying it on. Yes it could have been left at the wrong address or stolen from his address but he seems pretty keen to get that refund. I’d say he is definitely trying it on.
XSerenityX2 m ago

I think that as he didn’t need to sign for it he has taken it from the p …I think that as he didn’t need to sign for it he has taken it from the place that they left it knowing full well that you can’t prove he has it and is trying it on. Yes it could have been left at the wrong address or stolen from his address but he seems pretty keen to get that refund. I’d say he is definitely trying it on.


Exactly my thoughts but with eBay being eBay is sellers are left out of pocket. Any suggestions on what to do?
Unfortunatly the deal is, never send a Ebay item out without it being Signed for and Insurance, the Buyer has a right to a refund whether he is a scamer or not.
YouMuppet11 m ago

Exactly my thoughts but with eBay being eBay is sellers are left out of …Exactly my thoughts but with eBay being eBay is sellers are left out of pocket. Any suggestions on what to do?



I can’t be certain but I think if you let him go ahead with his case with Ebay and you provide the tracking evidence to Ebay then Ebay may refund him out of their pocket so you don’t lose out but he is still a winner. Like I said, I can’t be certain but I think that is a strong possibility. Just don’t refund him voluntarily as you did send it and you do have the tracking information.
If the buyer says he has not received it he will be refunded - you cannot prove he has received it!

Lesson - always ship anything you are not prepred to give away on a service requiring a signature.
I had a similar situation, Ebay live chat said that as the item was showing as delivered I was under no obligation to refund. The buyer found the item a few hours later.
Thanks for your suggestions, same as I thought but just checking to see if there was anything possible.
I wont be refunding my myself, I’ll delay it out with eBay as much as possible. The courier insured my parcel but not as much as what I sold the item for, it’s something though I guess.
ScubaDudes2 m ago

I had a similar situation, Ebay live chat said that as the item was …I had a similar situation, Ebay live chat said that as the item was showing as delivered I was under no obligation to refund. The buyer found the item a few hours later.


Really? Was it signed for? Can you give some more info please
I think you can tell they are dodgy with how quick they open a case. I have had this happen a few times. I have sent items non signed and the number on the receipt says delivered to house or neighbour and eBay still side with them.
I do everything signed for now but I don't sell as much cause you have to put the postage so high to cover the scammers and the 10% eBay takes from postage.
YouMuppet9 m ago

Really? Was it signed for? Can you give some more info please


No it wasn't signed for. The buyer opened a case and I uploaded the tracking number.
ScubaDudes35 m ago

No it wasn't signed for. The buyer opened a case and I uploaded the …No it wasn't signed for. The buyer opened a case and I uploaded the tracking number.


But if the tracking says left in outbuilding , that obviously means shed , in some cases a bin . It actually hasn’t been delivered and to cover yourself 100% it really needs to be signed for . You’re tracking proves it wasn’t delivered to the property. But left outside .
yozzman123436 m ago

But if the tracking says left in outbuilding , that obviously means shed , …But if the tracking says left in outbuilding , that obviously means shed , in some cases a bin . It actually hasn’t been delivered and to cover yourself 100% it really needs to be signed for . You’re tracking proves it wasn’t delivered to the property. But left outside .


Agree with this, I have had items left n my recycle bin, even on my doorstep, if it genuinely got stolen by someone I would expect a refund from the seller or courier firm.. always send signed for.
So let me get this right.
You have told him it has been delivered when he is saying it hasn't (informing you there are no outbuildings it could have been left)
He has beyond that checked with his neighbours.
You are complaining to your customer that you didn't insure it for enough and you are going to be out of pocket (what relevance does that have to him?)
Finally, after he has had enough of your antics, you are speculating his intention rather than sticking to facts and going to punish him for what is going on in your own mind.

See good feedback coming your way and glad I am not a customer of yours that has had a delivery go awry. Oh and if he picks up that you are playing him about expect another bill on top - as I would give you notice of placing it in small claims for you not having conformed to the contract formed.
Bertz995th Feb

So let me get this right.You have told him it has been delivered when he …So let me get this right.You have told him it has been delivered when he is saying it hasn't (informing you there are no outbuildings it could have been left)He has beyond that checked with his neighbours.You are complaining to your customer that you didn't insure it for enough and you are going to be out of pocket (what relevance does that have to him?)Finally, after he has had enough of your antics, you are speculating his intention rather than sticking to facts and going to punish him for what is going on in your own mind.See good feedback coming your way and glad I am not a customer of yours that has had a delivery go awry. Oh and if he picks up that you are playing him about expect another bill on top - as I would give you notice of placing it in small claims for you not having conformed to the contract formed.


If you don’t see what the rest of the people see in this thread then you must be easily fooled in life.

Thanks for your feedback
YouMuppet17 m ago

If you don’t see what the rest of the people see in this thread then you m …If you don’t see what the rest of the people see in this thread then you must be easily fooled in life.Thanks for your feedback


You are welcome - your contract and conforming to it is built on facts and what you can prove - not speculating.

Negative input normally results in negative output and I have pushed (whilst you might find harshly) the lack of empathy and customer service skills you have been demonstrating to your client and precisely playing devils advocate if a genuine client of yours (must say glad I am not) could throw back from your communications.

To me foolish would be sending goods not insured for the appropriate value, incompetent is complaining to your customer about being foolish and not once apologising for the state you may have put a genuine customer into but assuming the worst of them.

We all live and learn though - just some have to do it the hard way.
Google maps his house, see if there's anything that could be an "outbuilding" or not.
Report buyer, this will prevent bad feedback - also the courier states delivered & that's good enough as for as eBay are concerned, just another trier! I report every lost missing item when using Royal Mail regardless of cost even if it's a 99p item, these scum are then watched & every item is tracked unannounced & they are on a watch list & will be prosecuted
How much did the watch sell for - more or less than £750? If less, eBay's guidance is that you should probably be protected based on what you've said, though I could see delivery to an 'outbuilding; rather than the resident being a possible point of contention. Link

FWIW though, I find myself agreeing with much of what Beertz99 says here. You need to appreciate that the responsibility to fulfil the sale rests with the seller until such time that delivery is completed. Parcels can and do go missing from time to time, and underinsuring it was unwise - insurance is there to protect the seller, not the buyer, so you're assuming that risk yourself. With certain couriers, Hermes being one of the more common, anecdotal reports suggest that there's the occasional rogue delivery contractor who'll deliberately misdeliver items in favour of their own convenience, or even in more extreme circumstances take an item for themselves. Alternatively, if you've not used a service requiring physical signature, theft of an item left unattended is also possible - again, a risk for the seller, not the buyer, unless they've explicitly consented to that.

The attitude that you've demonstrated in your conversation with the buyer isn't really appropriate IMO - I'd expect any seller from whom I purchased be starting from a position of assuming the integrity of the buyer and being sensitive towards their concerns, bearing in mind the above re potential risks with certain couriers. Don't completely drop any scepticism of course, but you shouldn't immediately assume that they're at fault.
Edited by: "Illusionary" 6th Feb
We had a problem in our area of delivery drivers leaving items in wheely bins .
It happened a few times too myself and a few neighbours over a few years .
And then a idiot driver left my neighbours new £1350 Mac book pro in a bin with No signature.
I was in also in at the time . After I conversation he decided to ring Very say where is my laptop ?
He obviously had it . After lots of phone calls from Very and Courier company ringing him . Very finally credited his account £1350 ( free mac book pro ) . As they couldn’t prove it had been delivered. And the courier firm told Very is was left in a bin .
After this incident none of us seemed too have items left in bins from then on , which I think is a disgraceful thing to do and a I agreed with my neighbour doing what he done .
By the way how much was the watch worth . As if it was worth over £250 I would of added £12 P&P and sent special delivery and everyone is covered then .
"Listen up mate"

Are you Ray Winstone ?
YouMuppet9 h, 44 m ago

If you don’t see what the rest of the people see in this thread then you m …If you don’t see what the rest of the people see in this thread then you must be easily fooled in life.Thanks for your feedback



to be honest I am with that poster, if something was delivered to me and it wasn't in the out building I would open a cases as soon as possible. It may not be seen by the seller as the right thing to do but there is no way of finding out what happened to the item. someone could have picked it up, the driver could have had it away you never know and if it was your money you had paid you probably would have done the same. Not everyone wants to get one over on you plenty do but if I had any doubt about paying for something that did not arrive I would be doing the same.

Couriers are a nightmare if you don't sign for it, we live in a small street with 19 houses, we are at number 10 courier said they left a sky box one of the expensive ones with us a few years ago but they hadn't. I called the courier and 10 minutes after the tracking said it had been delivered and they said it had been delivered to number 19, went to 19 and card through the door to say it was behind the hedge, they didn't even have a hedge!
The problem with tracked delivery is it only says it was delivered, not to who and where. I had this happen to me, turned up a few days later as postman had delivered it down the street by mistake...
As long as the tracking says it has been delivered, you should be good. I was in a similar situation myself, i sent 2nd class without signed for. Buyer claimed he hadn’t received the item but the tracking clearly said it had been delivered. I contacted ebay, gave them the tracking number and they closed the case, buyer hasn’t replied since
Thanks for everyone’s input, I can see both views where it may or may not be a genuine incident.
Like I said in my first post, it may be true but it sent a few alarm bells ringing because I’ve had something like this happen before (signed for) so I’m now wary of scammers and there tricks.

Looking at my some of my responses now do look a bit harsh but they were responded to right after receiving them so emotions were high at that point, if I left it a bit then maybe they would’ve have been worded differently but I can’t go back from that now.

after all that I do think it’s a false claim just by the way they went about this but that’s my opionion of course.
Since this, the original eBay listing has been removed by eBay (auction ended last week) as it was anonymously reported for being not genuine, but as it’s “lost” there’s no way to prove anything now. Just want this over with now.
Contact Hermes etc and get them to confirm in email that it was delivered if you can then go to ebay with the evidence. I had this from a courier saying he had posted the thing through my door. Which is impossible as I have a secure think on it so people can’t stir through so no way it would fit. Ebay took buyers side at first. Till I got the evidence that the parcel had been lost by courier so they knew I wasn’t telling porkys
dorey6916 m ago

Contact Hermes etc and get them to confirm in email that it was delivered …Contact Hermes etc and get them to confirm in email that it was delivered if you can then go to ebay with the evidence. I had this from a courier saying he had posted the thing through my door. Which is impossible as I have a secure think on it so people can’t stir through so no way it would fit. Ebay took buyers side at first. Till I got the evidence that the parcel had been lost by courier so they knew I wasn’t telling porkys


As soon as sent the parcel I attached the tracking info to the eBay order for the buyer to keep track of its whereabouts so eBay has it already. The buyer claims it doesn’t work but eBay can see for themselves that it does.
YouMuppet30 m ago

As soon as sent the parcel I attached the tracking info to the eBay order …As soon as sent the parcel I attached the tracking info to the eBay order for the buyer to keep track of its whereabouts so eBay has it already. The buyer claims it doesn’t work but eBay can see for themselves that it does.


I am only trying to help but you seem stuck on same point

Issue: Buyer is saying he has problem accessing tracking information

your thought: I can and ebay can see so his issue.

my thought: resolve issue - here customer, not sure why it is not working for you but have taken a screenshot of what hermes website is showing me.

must just be me being foolish again
Edited by: "Bertz99" 6th Feb
Bertz996th Feb

I am only trying to help but you seem stuck on same point Issue: Buyer is …I am only trying to help but you seem stuck on same point Issue: Buyer is saying he has problem accessing tracking informationyour thought: I can and ebay can see so his issue.my thought: resolve issue - here customer, not sure why it is not working for you but have taken a screenshot of what hermes website is showing me.must just be me being foolish again


I have showed him what the tracking info shows
Hermes have been nothing but trouble lately in my experience, an item posted to us last week vanished into thin air, over the last few days 3 separate packages (but coming together) from debenhams have been out for delivery on 2 occasions before getting to us, tracking shows delivery has been attempted but no one in, how odd as our sofa is about 4 foot from the front door, not only this the tracking shows that the packages being delivered the courier attempted deliver of three parcels for example one was 7pm another 7.20pm and the other at 8.05pm, now I know a courier would have delivered (or attempted to deliver as claimed) all 3 together. Thankfully they arrived today when the regular reliable driver returned from holidays.
Call there bluff say your gettin the police to also check it as its theft ,he mite back down
If it's any consolation - when I was giving you the opposing view and feeling smug in myself that whilst I had an issue with receiving damaged goods at least I had a seller, whilst not knowing what he was doing, was at least polite and taking full responsibility. Justice a few days on I get an email off him complaining how its going to cost him, the stress he can't bare and how can be possibly resolve the process of arranging collection.

I haven't been quite as mr angry on him as I could have been but tried to follow illusionary's eloquent example in explaining these aren't my issues.
Edited by: "Bertz99" 7th Feb
yozzman12346th Feb

We had a problem in our area of delivery drivers leaving items in wheely …We had a problem in our area of delivery drivers leaving items in wheely bins . It happened a few times too myself and a few neighbours over a few years . And then a idiot driver left my neighbours new £1350 Mac book pro in a bin with No signature. I was in also in at the time . After I conversation he decided to ring Very say where is my laptop ? He obviously had it . After lots of phone calls from Very and Courier company ringing him . Very finally credited his account £1350 ( free mac book pro ) . As they couldn’t prove it had been delivered. And the courier firm told Very is was left in a bin . After this incident none of us seemed too have items left in bins from then on , which I think is a disgraceful thing to do and a I agreed with my neighbour doing what he done . By the way how much was the watch worth . As if it was worth over £250 I would of added £12 P&P and sent special delivery and everyone is covered then .


Seriously?! So you recommend and condone defrauding a third party for the poor service of your local courier?

Are you the OP's buyer?
YouMuppet6th Feb

I have showed him what the tracking info shows



Add the tracking to the case and any info you have from Hermes. If they confirm with the driver it was delivered and where, add that info to the case. Ebay don't need a signature, as long as the tracking is official and shows delivery is made, they'll close the case in your favour. Buyer is most likely trying it on and you can probably go through feedback he's left for other sellers to confirm
thenormalone2 h, 1 m ago

Add the tracking to the case and any info you have from Hermes. If they …Add the tracking to the case and any info you have from Hermes. If they confirm with the driver it was delivered and where, add that info to the case. Ebay don't need a signature, as long as the tracking is official and shows delivery is made, they'll close the case in your favour. Buyer is most likely trying it on and you can probably go through feedback he's left for other sellers to confirm


Quoting the Consumer Rights Act (previously the distance selling regulations and prior to that sales of goods act):

"Delivery rights
The retailer is responsible for goods until they are in your physical possession, or in the possession of someone appointed by you to accept them.

This means that retailers are liable for the service provided by the couriers they employ - the delivery firm is not liable. "

Ebay only provide a framework for adherence to legislation - have had the situation as you describe and have had a case reopened on challenging - buyer here would challenge the proof of his signature onus is on seller to prove.

Joe Lycett's moon countdown idea is along the same lines > this
decanay3 h, 27 m ago

Seriously?! So you recommend and condone defrauding a third party for the …Seriously?! So you recommend and condone defrauding a third party for the poor service of your local courier? Are you the OP's buyer?


Up chuck kino ou salaha
yozzman123445 m ago

Up chuck kino ou salaha


Say again? A simple yes or no will suffice
I never send buyers tracking information as I think with any dodgy buyer you are giving them the temptation to claim item not received when they can track the item themselves and see it says it was left somewhere etc.

My most recent experience,buyer contacts me asking where their parcel is as they have been away for the weekend and the slip through the door told them it was left in the porch,buyer says they don't have their parcel and they don't have a porch.

I look on Google maps and I think the courier is classing it as a porch as their front door is kind of set back under a make shift "porch".

Anyway,to cut a long story short the buyer opens a claim and I add tracking saying delivered and buyer lost the claim.

I don't know if it's any different using Hermes via parcel2go but Hermes are now supposed to take pictures of items delivered that are left outside so you could ask Hermes on live chat for a picture of where the parcel was left.

Because the last scan is showing as delivered in my case Hermes told me to make a claim from them the buyer would have to sign a form they emailed me stating they don't have said parcel and it mentions the Police,as if a dodgy buyer is going to sign that !!
Update: eBay was happy with what they saw from the tracking info and closed the dispute in my favour.
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