eBay help. Yodel claims item delivered, seller expects me to deal with it.

38
Found 7th Mar
Hi folks

So I bought an item off eBay a few days ago. received a text message earlier off yodel to say item has been delivered. It hasn't. No card in letterbox to say it's been left with neighbours and no sign of item left in a safe place.
I've contacted the seller and they've asked me to contact Yodel.
Frankly I don't want the cost or hassle of calling their premium rate phone line, nor should I have to submit a claim with yodel imho.
Question is who would eBay or PayPal side with in this matter if I submit a claim with them? Will they accept yodels word for it that it's been delivered?
If I'd have known they were using Yodel I'd have used a different seller.
Over the years I've had numerous problems with them. Never had a problem with Royal mail or other couriers, but of the 6 or 7 items with yodel only 2 have been hassle free.
I paid with a debit card through PayPal...does that make a difference?

Appreciate any advice
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It's yodel - check rooftops, bins, gardens, local wasteland, the road, under cars and if they have easy access then the sewers.

They really are just about the worst delivery company, but a few others are close.

As for your issue you'll need the seller to chase yodel, as he has the contract with them I imagine, and the bosses will need to ask what the driver did with your package, the answer will probably be "I threw it in a garden".
38 Comments
Well you could ask for the seller to provide proof of delivery?
A lot depends on what the tracking says. If it says it's been delivered then eBay and Paypal will side with the seller.

As the seller contracted Yodel, they should be chasing it up.

Have you asked the seller for 1. confirmation of the delivery address (you have no idea how many buyers use an old one or incomplete one). 2. the proof of delivery (in case it has a name/signature that you can track down.

Ultimately you need to keep the seller onside, because they hold all the cards.
Based on the info you provided

A contract was created between yourself and a seller and the price included delivery by a method of the sellers choosing. You have not received the goods. The contract has therefore not been fully executed. you are entitled to your money back in full. Presumably you provided accurate address info and have not in any way obstructed delivery or failed to confirm if delivery was received by someone on your behalf

The seller does not 'hold all the cards'. The seller has taken money and failed to deliver. It is the sellers problem.
It's yodel - check rooftops, bins, gardens, local wasteland, the road, under cars and if they have easy access then the sewers.

They really are just about the worst delivery company, but a few others are close.

As for your issue you'll need the seller to chase yodel, as he has the contract with them I imagine, and the bosses will need to ask what the driver did with your package, the answer will probably be "I threw it in a garden".
ccnp14 m ago

Based on the info you providedA contract was created between yourself and …Based on the info you providedA contract was created between yourself and a seller and the price included delivery by a method of the sellers choosing. You have not received the goods. The contract has therefore not been fully executed. you are entitled to your money back in full. Presumably you provided accurate address info and have not in any way obstructed delivery or failed to confirm if delivery was received by someone on your behalfThe seller does not 'hold all the cards'. The seller has taken money and failed to deliver. It is the sellers problem.


Twice now you have commented on a similar post about ebay and both times given incorrect information.

It is NOT the sellers problem.
The seller has posted the item and the item as far as the seller is concerned has been delivered. Ebay/paypal will side with the seller if the tracking information states this.

If the item was lost in transit, and tracking information shows as item not delivered then the buyer contacts the seller for a replacement/refund. If seller refuses then ebay/paypal will side with the buyer as item had not been delivered.

As the OP has said the item is showing as delivered its between the buyer and yodel. Not the seller.
Caroline_199347 m ago

Twice now you have commented on a similar post about ebay and both times …Twice now you have commented on a similar post about ebay and both times given incorrect information. It is NOT the sellers problem. The seller has posted the item and the item as far as the seller is concerned has been delivered. Ebay/paypal will side with the seller if the tracking information states this. If the item was lost in transit, and tracking information shows as item not delivered then the buyer contacts the seller for a replacement/refund. If seller refuses then ebay/paypal will side with the buyer as item had not been delivered. As the OP has said the item is showing as delivered its between the buyer and yodel. Not the seller.



Caroline

It may not feel fair or right but this is really, really, really incredibly basic contract law. It is frequently misunderstood in favour of the cosy sofa surfer opinion you refer to that may feel nicer but is not the legal position that a court would inspect.

Your reference to eBay taking sides is irrelevant. UK law applies

The seller created the contract with the buyer. The seller created the contract with Yodel. The seller has a claim on Yodel for non delivery. Not the buyer. The caveat to that is the one I stated namely that a valid address had been given and that the buyer has checked with all possible recipients at that address. Frequently, this includes the need to use a Paypal verified address where eBay sales are concerned.

The seller has to deliver. The buyer has the legal right to a refund because (s)he has not received the goods.

End of.

This is actually why it is frequently a good idea to specify in an ad that you will use the buyers preferred delivery method and that they should send you the labels. It then becomes the Buyers contract with the delivery company. The seller should then take pictures to show proper packaging and keep a proof of postage. That proof is so the seller can show you have handed it to the courier.

By the by; This is also a good protection for the seller where the goods being shipped are on the uninsured list that couriers have and which is surprisingly long.
Edited by: "ccnp" 7th Mar
ccnp7 m ago

CarolineIt may not feel fair or right but this is really, really, really …CarolineIt may not feel fair or right but this is really, really, really incredibly basic contract law. It is frequently misunderstood in favour of the cosy sofa surfer opinion you refer to that may feel nicer but is not the legal position that a court would inspect. Your reference to eBay taking sides is irrelevant. UK law appliesThe seller created the contract with the buyer. The seller created the contract with Yodel. The seller has a claim on Yodel for non delivery. Not the buyer. The caveat to that is the one I stated namely that a valid address had been given and that the buyer has checked with all possible recipients at that address. Frequently, this includes the need to use a Paypal verified address where eBay sales are concerned.The seller has to deliver. The buyer has the legal right to a refund because (s)he has not received the goods. End of.This is actually why it is frequently a good idea to specify in an ad that you will use the buyers preferred delivery method and that they should send you the labels. It then becomes the Buyers contract with the delivery company. The seller should then take pictures to show proper packaging and keep a proof of postage. That proof is so the seller can show you have handed it to the courier.By the by; This is also a good protection for the seller where the goods being shipped are on the uninsured list that couriers have and which is surprisingly long.




You assume ebay follow any laws but their own. If someone has signed for the item, ebay won't care who. If I was OP I would contact yodel and ask when/where it was delivered.
splatsplatsplat39 m ago

You assume ebay follow any laws but their own. If someone has signed for …You assume ebay follow any laws but their own. If someone has signed for the item, ebay won't care who. If I was OP I would contact yodel and ask when/where it was delivered.



Exactly right. Plenty of folks have had to tell eBay very firmly what the actual position is based on UK law rather than accept their interpretation of their own Ts&Cs. They always back down if you are persistent enough. They dare not incur the wrath of the courts by trying to subjugate UK law to their preferred contractual position, especially when its a UK Consumer who has been on the wrong end of the bargain. UK law loves consumers to an almost unreasonable degree.

Technically, Yodel would be in breach of the Data Protection rules by releasing the signature to the buyer. Only the contracted parties (seller and courier) has a right to that info. The caveat to that would be the seller supplying the buyer with the tracking identifier and the signature is usually visible on the record. Painful process but it's simpler to zealously follow the path of legal righteousness in case you later need to demonstrate to a court that you have been as open, helpful and honest as it is possible to be and that teh seller has not shown a similar attitude.
If you contact yodel and see if they can confirm that they lost it etc. Then u can go back to ebay. Even though they seem to side with seller, but if you have evidence from yodel and you paid by PayPal. They are more help than ebay
Ask Yodel who signed for it, at what address etc.

I have a good app for premium call rates, it’s called WeQ4U - saved me lots of money
Richard_Richard3 h, 57 m ago

It's yodel - check rooftops, bins, gardens, local wasteland, the road, …It's yodel - check rooftops, bins, gardens, local wasteland, the road, under cars and if they have easy access then the sewers.They really are just about the worst delivery company, but a few others are close.As for your issue you'll need the seller to chase yodel, as he has the contract with them I imagine, and the bosses will need to ask what the driver did with your package, the answer will probably be "I threw it in a garden".


Rooftops are a big thing too thepoke.co.uk/2015/11/25/sorry-parcel-roof-rooftop-apology-note-went-viral/
Edited by: "Mechtup" 7th Mar
cmdr_elito7 h, 5 m ago

Well you could ask for the seller to provide proof of delivery?


Have done. Unfortunately it seems they may be based in China, fairly poor English in response and emailed me at 3am. This is going to get messy it seems :-(
Edited by: "wolfee" 7th Mar
Thanks for all the replies. What a mess!
There was somebody home all day and Yodel never showed. Thankfully it was only an inexpensive laptop charger but was for a friend who has paid me for it. Guess I'll have to refund her out of my own pocket and pray that PayPal side with me.
Sellers should clearly state which delivery companies they use. Yodel is a big no no for me. I'd never knowingly use them.
cmdr_elito7 h, 8 m ago

Well you could ask for the seller to provide proof of delivery?


Yodels tracking states it's been delivered. To the seller that's the proof of delivery.
Caroline_19936 h, 23 m ago

Twice now you have commented on a similar post about ebay and both times …Twice now you have commented on a similar post about ebay and both times given incorrect information. It is NOT the sellers problem. The seller has posted the item and the item as far as the seller is concerned has been delivered. Ebay/paypal will side with the seller if the tracking information states this. If the item was lost in transit, and tracking information shows as item not delivered then the buyer contacts the seller for a replacement/refund. If seller refuses then ebay/paypal will side with the buyer as item had not been delivered. As the OP has said the item is showing as delivered its between the buyer and yodel. Not the seller.


But surely the delivery contract is between the seller and the delivery company? The delivery is not my responsibility. I didn't choose this god awful delivery company the seller did...so how is it my responsibility?
What number is Yodel? Use the WeQ4U apk, you won't get charged premium rates. It comes off your inclusive minutes (if you have any). 0844 755 0117 -->>0333 543 4723
33393846-vtJFP.jpg33393846-e3FHm.jpg
Edited by: "RiverDragon8" 7th Mar
wolfee27 m ago

But surely the delivery contract is between the seller and the delivery …But surely the delivery contract is between the seller and the delivery company? The delivery is not my responsibility. I didn't choose this god awful delivery company the seller did...so how is it my responsibility?


Because the item is showing as delivered and if yodel have proof of delivery Then the contract between the seller and yodel as finished. Like i said if the item had been lost in transit or showing as undelivered then the resposibility will lie with the seller.
ccnp6 h, 9 m ago

CarolineIt may not feel fair or right but this is really, really, really …CarolineIt may not feel fair or right but this is really, really, really incredibly basic contract law. It is frequently misunderstood in favour of the cosy sofa surfer opinion you refer to that may feel nicer but is not the legal position that a court would inspect. Your reference to eBay taking sides is irrelevant. UK law appliesThe seller created the contract with the buyer. The seller created the contract with Yodel. The seller has a claim on Yodel for non delivery. Not the buyer. The caveat to that is the one I stated namely that a valid address had been given and that the buyer has checked with all possible recipients at that address. Frequently, this includes the need to use a Paypal verified address where eBay sales are concerned.The seller has to deliver. The buyer has the legal right to a refund because (s)he has not received the goods. End of.This is actually why it is frequently a good idea to specify in an ad that you will use the buyers preferred delivery method and that they should send you the labels. It then becomes the Buyers contract with the delivery company. The seller should then take pictures to show proper packaging and keep a proof of postage. That proof is so the seller can show you have handed it to the courier.By the by; This is also a good protection for the seller where the goods being shipped are on the uninsured list that couriers have and which is surprisingly long.


If yodel have proof that the item has been delivered then in uk law and in courts that is proof of delivery. The contract with yodel or Any other delivery company ends once the item has been delivered.
First, check the tracking on your order page in Ebay. Second if it is showing as delivered, have another good look around outside also have you actually checked with your neighbours? If still no luck re-contact your seller, be polite, remember Yodel are telling him it's been delivered. Ask him to contact Yodel as they are saying they will only deal with the sender of the parcel. Ask if he can find out where they delivered the parcel to as there was no card left. Hopefully he'll help, experienced sellers know they have to deal with the courier not the buyer so wondering if your seller is new? If worse comes to worse and he won't help open a case anyway, it will be found in sellers favour but if you appeal there is a likelihood of Ebay refunding you from their own bank balance.
One last thing, check your delivery address in paypal is correct, you'll be surprised how many buyers forget to update or change it. Also take a few minutes to read through Ebays 'how to buy' sections and buyer 'help' sections.
Caroline_199321 m ago

If yodel have proof that the item has been delivered then in uk law and in …If yodel have proof that the item has been delivered then in uk law and in courts that is proof of delivery. The contract with yodel or Any other delivery company ends once the item has been delivered.



Oh dear oh dear oh dear. Simple contractual facts. Last post on this one. You will have to sally forth again again on another thread when someone repeats the simple facts of contract law.

The buyer has a contract that includes delivery. The OP has clearly stated that IT WASN'T DELIVERED. Which means the Seller has not completed the contract.

The seller's separate problem is then that the Delivery company has not fulfilled its contract with the seller. It may say it has. But it hasn't. The onus is on the delivery company to prove deliver, not to simply say it has delivered.

A signature from an unidentified individual is not proof of delivery. A photo of the house and recipient holding the parcel would be proof. But then again, without exercising a reasonable (man on the Clapham omnibus) amount of care in verifying the identity behind the signature, the delivery company cannot demonstrate fulfillment of the contract.

eBay may like to think it can overrule UK law but the UK courts have a different, and binding, view.
Caroline_19934 h, 7 m ago

If yodel have proof that the item has been delivered then in uk law and in …If yodel have proof that the item has been delivered then in uk law and in courts that is proof of delivery. The contract with yodel or Any other delivery company ends once the item has been delivered.


How can they have proof when it hasn't been delivered? If they have proof that somebody has signed for it, it wasn't at the address it was meant to go to. I guess what this comes down to is it's my word against a delivery driver. We all know how rubbish their drivers are...how can that be!!? As I said earlier..sellers should specify which companies they are using to post items, that way we can make a choice. I had no idea they were going to use yodel, I wouldn't have ordered if I I'd have known.
Tell the seller Yodel won't deal with you as you're not their customer. The seller paid them so they will only deal with them.

That said, if the tracking says delivered you won't get far with eBay either. Signature isn't required unless the item was worth over £750.
wolfee5 h, 23 m ago

Yodels tracking states it's been delivered. To the seller that's the …Yodels tracking states it's been delivered. To the seller that's the proof of delivery.


A tracking scan is not proof of delivery, a signature is proof of delivery.
wolfee41 m ago

How can they have proof when it hasn't been delivered? If they have …How can they have proof when it hasn't been delivered? If they have proof that somebody has signed for it, it wasn't at the address it was meant to go to. I guess what this comes down to is it's my word against a delivery driver. We all know how rubbish their drivers are...how can that be!!? As I said earlier..sellers should specify which companies they are using to post items, that way we can make a choice. I had no idea they were going to use yodel, I wouldn't have ordered if I I'd have known.


Or just get cctv. Then playback the video at the delivery scan time.
cmdr_elito1 h, 31 m ago

A tracking scan is not proof of delivery, a signature is proof of delivery.


eBay/Paypal don't require a signature to consider the item delivered. Signature is required only if the value of the item is over £750.
All they need to confirm delivery is a tracking showing a status of delivered or equivalent at the address shown as delivery address in the order.
They won't be interested in anything else. Yodel could have left the actual package anywhere but what counts for eBay is the tracking. Unfortunately.

This really needs to be taken up with the courier.
I would ;

1/ politely request the seller provides a signature to prove delivery has been made.

2/ if signature is either unknown or not forthcoming then eBay need notified of the situation via a non-receipt claim

3/ if the seller is un-coperative then claim should be escalated when able.

4/ contact eBay and notify them again of the situation, as they may side with the seller, automated process may (and probably will) side with the seller as it shows as delivered so contacting them via telephone is the most successful in this situation, as they have the ability to over-rule the automated resolution decision.
Simple contact ebay by phone and state you have have not received the item.
Then do what they say about claiming.
They find in buyers favour most of the time.
A buyer made a claim against me- Royal Mail said delivered.Even when I sent it Royal Mail next day berfore 13.00pm.
Delivered and signed for. Ebay still found in their favour.
bigwheels42 m ago

Simple contact ebay by phone and state you have have not received the …Simple contact ebay by phone and state you have have not received the item.Then do what they say about claiming.They find in buyers favour most of the time.A buyer made a claim against me- Royal Mail said delivered.Even when I sent it Royal Mail next day berfore 13.00pm.Delivered and signed for. Ebay still found in their favour.


Probably because RM don't show the delivery address in the online tracking. You should have uploaded the receipt which shows house number and postcode along with the tracking.
hearts221 h, 22 m ago

Probably because RM don't show the delivery address in the online …Probably because RM don't show the delivery address in the online tracking. You should have uploaded the receipt which shows house number and postcode along with the tracking.


I jumped through the hoops but still lost out..
I got my own back had 2 deliveries late in a week 1 was only 2 mins after 13.00pm .
still claimed and got postage back.
Also I claim if no signature on delivery.
Got feedback on ebay for around 5 items last year but no signature from Royal Mail.
I spoke to RM customer service to complain, the lady I spoke to said if no signature then we can’t prove it’s been delivered. So please claim as lost item.She said all this after I said I know it’s arrived cos I have feedback.
so lost out on 1 £30.00 item But gained over £200.00 on delivered items plus £200.00 for claims.
Sent off my driving licence first class signed for, no signature. Got licence back. Them claimed £20.00 comp plus postage.
Their rules.
Seems yodel delivered it to the wrong address...wrong street even! Was left in somebody's porch.
Thankfully a lovely old lady managed to track us down and bought it round earlier this evening. Nobody signed for it, unless the delivery man did?
Still unsure from comments whether I'd have lost my money had the lady decided to keep it or been unable to find us.
Seems unfair if eBay sides with the seller in this matter. Don't get me wrong I can see it from the sellers point of view too....but ultimately it should be the seller that guarantees delivery, and the seller who should have to chase up lost parcels and proof of delivery, unless they state which company they use and what the terms of delivery are.
Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.
bigwheels2 h, 14 m ago

Simple contact ebay by phone and state you have have not received the …Simple contact ebay by phone and state you have have not received the item.Then do what they say about claiming.They find in buyers favour most of the time.A buyer made a claim against me- Royal Mail said delivered.Even when I sent it Royal Mail next day berfore 13.00pm.Delivered and signed for. Ebay still found in their favour.


Seems harsh! I've always found royal mail to be brilliant. Never had a problem with them.
andynicol3 h, 12 m ago

I would ;1/ politely request the seller provides a signature to prove …I would ;1/ politely request the seller provides a signature to prove delivery has been made.2/ if signature is either unknown or not forthcoming then eBay need notified of the situation via a non-receipt claim3/ if the seller is un-coperative then claim should be escalated when able.4/ contact eBay and notify them again of the situation, as they may side with the seller, automated process may (and probably will) side with the seller as it shows as delivered so contacting them via telephone is the most successful in this situation, as they have the ability to over-rule the automated resolution decision.


Thanks...would have tried all your suggestions but only got as far as number one on your list.... although it wasn't particularly polite 😄. Was livid that the seller tried to make it my responsibility to chase up the proof of delivery...have also recommended that they reconsider their choice of courier
wolfee21 m ago

Seems yodel delivered it to the wrong address...wrong street even! Was …Seems yodel delivered it to the wrong address...wrong street even! Was left in somebody's porch. Thankfully a lovely old lady managed to track us down and bought it round earlier this evening. Nobody signed for it, unless the delivery man did? Still unsure from comments whether I'd have lost my money had the lady decided to keep it or been unable to find us.Seems unfair if eBay sides with the seller in this matter. Don't get me wrong I can see it from the sellers point of view too....but ultimately it should be the seller that guarantees delivery, and the seller who should have to chase up lost parcels and proof of delivery, unless they state which company they use and what the terms of delivery are.Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.


Good news!

A signature would have been irrelevant in a dispute with eBay or PayPal.
Unless the item is worth over £750 it's not even required to prove delivery.
All the seller would have had to do is upload a tracking showing delivered and your address and they would have won the case.
Have they even given you the tracking? Not that it matters now anyway.

Good thing you managed to find your item in the end

We got a letter addressed to a care home down the road coming through the door once. Seems pretty evident to me this is not a care home lol.
Yesterday morning they put a letter for our neighbour through the door, EON bill. I put it through his door.

Still amazed at the care home one! They manage to mess up the unthinkable sometimes.
Edited by: "hearts22" 8th Mar
hearts228 m ago

Good news!A signature would have been irrelevant in a dispute with eBay or …Good news!A signature would have been irrelevant in a dispute with eBay or PayPal. Unless the item is worth over £750 it's not even required to prove delivery. All the seller would have had to do is upload a tracking showing delivered and your address and they would have won the case. Have they even given you the tracking? Not that it matters now anyway.Good thing you managed to find your item in the end We got a letter addressed to a care home down the road coming through the door once. Seems pretty evident to me this is not a care home lol.Yesterday morning they put a letter for our neighbour through the door, EON bill. I put it through his door. Still amazed at the care home one! They manage to mess up the unthinkable sometimes.


Thanks ☺ Not heard off the seller since voicing my displeasure at being told I'd have to chase it up. So no idea if they've been provided with a signature somehow.

In future I'll be messaging companies that use "other courier" as a their delivery method to find out who they use. I've said this before, but still got caught out..I'll never use Yodel again.
cmdr_elito11 h, 50 m ago

A tracking scan is not proof of delivery, a signature is proof of delivery.


A signature isn't enough according to ccnp. You need a photo of the house and recipient holding the parcel. If that was true, then it would open a whole new world of scam opportunities.
Yodel are crap!!!! Swear they are a bunch of numpties. I purchased a £1000 pram travel system and no-one was home at my inlaws house. So they they left in front of the door. On a busy street. When my inlaws arrived luckily the items were still there. But the note Yodel left and what was stated on the online tracking sign for part was completely different.

Yodel driver had left it in a 'Safe place' which is what the note said.Safe?

The online tracking displayed that the driver had delivered to a neighbour called Simon.

Both of which were lies.

In my opinion YODEL are a bunch of idiots and some even thieves, who have no care whats so ever about the items they delivery. And to the very few good Yodel drivers: Thank you for being honest.

Rant over.
wolfee19 h, 7 m ago

Thanks...would have tried all your suggestions but only got as far as …Thanks...would have tried all your suggestions but only got as far as number one on your list.... although it wasn't particularly polite 😄. Was livid that the seller tried to make it my responsibility to chase up the proof of delivery...have also recommended that they reconsider their choice of courier



Glad you got your item, but why wouldn't you be polite in your communication with the seller?

They had at that point met there side of the agreement in that they despatched the item in good faith.

Not being polite isn't going to speed up the process, if anything it has the potential to slow the situation down as the seller is now peeved off due to your rudeness...?
andynicol3 h, 15 m ago

Glad you got your item, but why wouldn't you be polite in your …Glad you got your item, but why wouldn't you be polite in your communication with the seller? They had at that point met there side of the agreement in that they despatched the item in good faith.Not being polite isn't going to speed up the process, if anything it has the potential to slow the situation down as the seller is now peeved off due to your rudeness...?


They weren't very helpful. Just basically washed their hands of the matter. They quoted the tracking details, provided a premium rate phone number and told me to sort it out with Yodel. Not good enough imo. I asked them to provide proof of delivery and they just quoted the same thing.

You can say it wasn't the sellers fault and Yodel are to blame, but I wasn't told it was yodel they were using and had no say in delivery method. Sellers choice, seller should deal with them
Edited by: "wolfee" 8th Mar
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