Ebay item/scam

20
Posted 18th Jan
A business seller..sold a high value item..buyer received item sent signed for item insured..after 14 days buyer changes mind and would like a refund and returned item..when opened package was completely different item received not worth 5% of sold item..paypal refunded buyer...what should Seller do in this case?? As paypal say item received via tracking so automatically refunds the buyer..hope it makes sense..

Police Action Fraud dont do anything aswell.
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The buyer should contact PayPal or eBay but I don’t know why they’d expect a refund if they sent something different and PayPal had sided with seller??
Edited by: "choccie32" 18th Jan
there seem to be a few steps missing.

if return opened via ebay then upon receiving the item the seller can refund a proportion of the price depending on the condition.
paypal refund suggests that seller didn't follow refund process properly?
In these cases I always wonder how eBay decide which party is being truthful.
I once sold mint limited edition Xbox controller for £50 .. buyer claimed faulty weeks after receiving it .. asked for return which eBay granted .. so they got refund .. the controller was not as I had sent it .. it was well used & had food stuff in the buttons .. I complained to eBay about their decision to refund buyer and provided images of controller.. to my surprise eBay recredited me the £50 & I got to keep the controller which I cleaned & sold again ..
Statute legislation indicates the "burden of proof" is on the trader to show its loss (on the assumption the consumer is the party that would suffer the most detrement). It is near-impossible for a business to credibly meet this requirement, so as per consumer legislation: the consumer is the beneficial party.
However typically in similar circumstances but not involving ebay/PayPal the trader may choose to simply not refund or only part refund, possibly inviting the buyer to initiate legal action if the buyer wishes to continue with (assumed fraudulent) recovery.
The difference with a PayPal / ebay transaction is that those two organisations have a holier-than-god approach, have the trader by the personals and will typically side with the buyer and auto-refund the buyer at the trader's expense regardless of protest by the trader.
That scenario is a typical result of the trader wishing to use those platforms as a means of trade, where the trader will not be permitted to use those platforms until the ebay/PP t&c have been accepted by the trader, and so by definition the trader has agreed to stuff itself.
How much was the item, can you afford the loss?

If someone did that to me and I had their details I would try to recover through small claims.
I don't know if they do this as it's never happened to me but one thing they could check is the proof of postings and check if the weight of the item was the same on both jouneys. This wouldn't really help though if they've sent a broke version of the same item or something that weighs the same. I'm not sure how they'd decide who is telling the truth in that scenario.
samosa19/01/2020 00:29

How much was the item, can you afford the loss?If someone did that to me …How much was the item, can you afford the loss?If someone did that to me and I had their details I would try to recover through small claims.


The seller wasn't at fault, the buyer was. Seller was refunded. All is well and buyer learns a lesson
samosa19/01/2020 00:29

How much was the item, can you afford the loss?If someone did that to me …How much was the item, can you afford the loss?If someone did that to me and I had their details I would try to recover through small claims.


Not clear how you would expect the business to be able to reasonably show that the item returned was not the item originally sent. Most businesses are unlikely to want to fund expensive legal action on the assumption the business holds the burden of proof responsibility and would have to credibly explain to the legal system why one organisation has already sided with the buyer but was somehow not correct in doing so.
Hmm, initially I thought this was from the point of view of a seller selling an item - then the buyer has returned a different item, hoping to keep the original item AND obtain a refund too - but I'm not sure now, having read it again - and the "what should buyer do" part...

Now, if I 'think' I know what you're saying/asking:


As the buyer, you purchased an item. Then changed your mind and returned it. The "Seller" has reported the item as not being the original item they sent and Paypal? have ruled in their favour. For starters; from the sellers POV; I would've thought the reversal was done via Ebay, not Paypal. Just as an aside, why do people seem to jump to Paypal BEFORE Ebay? If you bought the item on Ebay; and have an issue; you try them first - then move on to Paypal if the first avenue is unsatisfactory. The platform you purchase through is Ebay. Paypal is just the payment method. They are two separate entities.

Anyway, clarification would be useful please. If you are the buyer, have returned an item and the seller is claiming it is not the original item, speak to Ebay. How was the item returned to the seller? Was it through a proper returns process or just packaged up and banged back to them with no warning?

It is more often the case that Ebay will side with a buyer as long as proper procedure were followed. Not always though. Perhaps; as a respected business; the seller was able to show this wasn't the case and; as the buyer has yet to offer an alternative (i.e. make a refutable complaint) then a ruling was made. As a buyer, how do you prove that the item you returned was THE item and not a brick? Or that the item YOU returned wasn't intercepted during transit and substituted?

As you said Paypal 'refunded' seller, this would suggest the buyer did receive a refund. Then it was reversed. This could also suggest that the buyer did indeed report to Ebay - who ruled against them and re-credited the seller. Who did what first???

Please do return, OP and perhaps elaborate further on a few points, i.e. are you (or someone you know) the seller OR the buyer? What sort of item? Tech/Jewellery/clothing etc? When saying "completely different item" are we talking brick instead of games console or old busted laptop instead of new laptop? Same item - just an inferior one? As you said "not worth 5%" then I'm guessing the latter scenario.

Being the buyer:

DID YOU: request to return the item to the seller through proper methods?
DID THEY: agree to accept the return and process the refund to you?
HOW DID: the seller report the "wrong item returned" to you? Did they show/say what they received?
DID: Ebay or Paypal reverse the refund? If Paypal, what was Ebay's ruling - if any?
DID YOU: report to Ebay AFTER the "wrong item returned" message?

If the answer to the last question is "No" then you need to contact Ebay ASAP. Ask them what you can do as you are now without an item, or the money you paid for said item. See what the reply is and take it from there. If that is not satisfactory and they say "case closed" then move to Paypal and reiterate your dilemma. After that, it's probably game-over but I've seen others suggest a campaign on social media etc. (if the seller is a high-profile company) to 'muddy the name' as it were. It has been known to garner results...

Regards, Phsy.
Phsycronix19/01/2020 12:59

Hmm, initially I thought this was from the point of view of a seller …Hmm, initially I thought this was from the point of view of a seller selling an item - then the buyer has returned a different item, hoping to keep the original item AND obtain a refund too - but I'm not sure now, having read it again - and the "what should buyer do" part...Now, if I 'think' I know what you're saying/asking:As the buyer, you purchased an item. Then changed your mind and returned it. The "Seller" has reported the item as not being the original item they sent and Paypal? have ruled in their favour. For starters; from the sellers POV; I would've thought the reversal was done via Ebay, not Paypal. Just as an aside, why do people seem to jump to Paypal BEFORE Ebay? If you bought the item on Ebay; and have an issue; you try them first - then move on to Paypal if the first avenue is unsatisfactory. The platform you purchase through is Ebay. Paypal is just the payment method. They are two separate entities.Anyway, clarification would be useful please. If you are the buyer, have returned an item and the seller is claiming it is not the original item, speak to Ebay. How was the item returned to the seller? Was it through a proper returns process or just packaged up and banged back to them with no warning?It is more often the case that Ebay will side with a buyer as long as proper procedure were followed. Not always though. Perhaps; as a respected business; the seller was able to show this wasn't the case and; as the buyer has yet to offer an alternative (i.e. make a refutable complaint) then a ruling was made. As a buyer, how do you prove that the item you returned was THE item and not a brick? Or that the item YOU returned wasn't intercepted during transit and substituted?As you said Paypal 'refunded' seller, this would suggest the buyer did receive a refund. Then it was reversed. This could also suggest that the buyer did indeed report to Ebay - who ruled against them and re-credited the seller. Who did what first???Please do return, OP and perhaps elaborate further on a few points, i.e. are you (or someone you know) the seller OR the buyer? What sort of item? Tech/Jewellery/clothing etc? When saying "completely different item" are we talking brick instead of games console or old busted laptop instead of new laptop? Same item - just an inferior one? As you said "not worth 5%" then I'm guessing the latter scenario.Being the buyer:DID YOU: request to return the item to the seller through proper methods?DID THEY: agree to accept the return and process the refund to you?HOW DID: the seller report the "wrong item returned" to you? Did they show/say what they received?DID: Ebay or Paypal reverse the refund? If Paypal, what was Ebay's ruling - if any?DID YOU: report to Ebay AFTER the "wrong item returned" message?If the answer to the last question is "No" then you need to contact Ebay ASAP. Ask them what you can do as you are now without an item, or the money you paid for said item. See what the reply is and take it from there. If that is not satisfactory and they say "case closed" then move to Paypal and reiterate your dilemma. After that, it's probably game-over but I've seen others suggest a campaign on social media etc. (if the seller is a high-profile company) to 'muddy the name' as it were. It has been known to garner results...Regards, Phsy.


Sorry edited main post now
SulemanIsmail19/01/2020 13:27

Sorry edited main post now



I'm sorry too. Still confused, even with the edit.

Question: ARE YOU THE BUYER OR THE SELLER?

I'm now thinking you're the seller? You need to contact Ebay if so. They are your FIRST point of contact, being seller OR buyer. They will have to look into the case.
Ok. So we need to get some things straight here. If you are the "Seller" :

The buyer more than likely wasn't 'refunded' by Paypal per-se. They were refunded via Ebay as they would've instigated the return through their account. Then, as a result Paypal's payment is reversed. This should ONLY happen when the seller agrees the refund AFTER receiving the returned goods. Now, why a seller would process a refund on a return that is NOT the item they sent is a bit 'perplexing' really. Equally perplexing would be doing a refund BEFORE getting the item back!

To clear up any confusion:

Q1) Are you the SELLER?
Q2) Did you receive notification of the return from the buyer?
Q3) Did you receive the item - then process the refund - OR:
Q4) Did you process the refund prior to the items return?

Depending on your answers, and if the buyer did everything correctly (i.e. followed the returns procedure which you would agree to) then you have a problem on your hands and think you may be Scooby-dooed."
Call PayPal if you've been defrauded as the seller. Get them to initiate an investigation. Closed and decided cases can be reopened despite what they claim and reversed depending on the circumstances. Log in to PayPal and go through the contact us options for a unique reference number. Then when you get through to options keep saying advisor (I think it is) over to get put through to a person.

Been a while since I had to call, stopped using ebay due to similar issues, just not worth the hassle anymore.
Still no update from the OP?

As Marcellus said so aptly: "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."
Phsycronix22/01/2020 10:32

Still no update from the OP?As Marcellus said so aptly: "Something is …Still no update from the OP?As Marcellus said so aptly: "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark."


Had to go through Action Fraud..as ebay and Paypal cant do anything.
SulemanIsmail23/01/2020 08:43

Had to go through Action Fraud..as ebay and Paypal cant do anything.



I thought you said (and I quote) : "Police Action Fraud don't do anything as well." ?

Also, your apparent reluctance all the way through this to answer the very basic, most simplistic of questions has me quite perplexed. I'm still not sure which side of the fence you are on? Not to worry.

If you do indeed have an issue - I hope you can get a satisfactory result.

All the best, Phsy.
I assume the poster is the buyer and trying to find out what will happen? This happened to me once and i just contacted the local police station as to me it was theft, judging by the messages i got from the buyer they did actually do something . I also got a full refund from ebay once i gave the crime number. Action Fraud is pretty pointless.
Edited by: "Azwipe" 23rd Jan
Azwipe23/01/2020 11:02

I assume the poster is the buyer and trying to find out what will happen? …I assume the poster is the buyer and trying to find out what will happen? This happened to me once and i just contacted the local police station as to me it was theft, judging by the messages i got from the buyer they did actually do something . I also got a full refund from ebay once i gave the crime number. Action Fraud is pretty pointless.



Not sure if the OP was actually the buyer they would be contacting "Action Fraud" when he has had his refund? After editing their initial post, the situation sort of switched. OP is asking - what should "seller" do.

As OP won't confirm for sure if they are the buyer OR the seller - it's hard to tell...

This is how it reads:

Seller sells item
Buyer buys item
Buyer changes mind - wants refund
Buyer returns different item than they received (usually a scam)
Seller receives 'different' item - yet strangely refunds buyer (or apparently Paypal does?)
Seller now without money - and has a different item to that which they sold
Seller presumably complains to either Ebay or Paypal - who dismiss based on evidence from buyer?

So OP (who I assume now is the "seller") is asking what they can do.

If they were the buyer of the original item, they have already won by getting the item, and their money back so I don't think they would be pursuing anything further. Unless they are trying to find out if the seller can still get the money back from them and want to preempt this - in which case we would be assisting someone in defrauding a seller.

Are you confused now? I know I am!
Edited by: "Phsycronix" 23rd Jan
Phsycronix23/01/2020 11:18

Not sure if the OP was actually the buyer they would be contacting "Action …Not sure if the OP was actually the buyer they would be contacting "Action Fraud" when he has had his refund? After editing their initial post, the situation sort of switched. OP is asking - what should "seller" do.As OP won't confirm for sure if they are the buyer OR the seller - it's hard to tell... This is how it reads:Seller sells itemBuyer buys itemBuyer changes mind - wants refundBuyer returns different item than they received (usually a scam)Seller receives 'different' item - yet strangely refunds buyer (or apparently Paypal does?)Seller now without money - and has a different item to that which they soldSeller presumably complains to either Ebay or Paypal - who dismiss based on evidence from buyer?So OP (who I assume now is the "seller") is asking what they can do.If they were the buyer of the original item, they have already won by getting the item, and their money back so I don't think they would be pursuing anything further. Unless they are trying to find out if the seller can still get the money back from them and want to preempt this - in which case we would be assisting someone in defrauding a seller.Are you confused now? I know I am!


I just assumed from the op's lack of willingness to confirm what part they play in this drama it is the latter
This op really needs to confirm if they are the seller or buyer
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