Ebay scammers and paypal rules!!!

85
Found 19th Oct 2011
Been on ebay 9 years with 100% feedback until yesterday, sold a faulty iphone 4 stating it was faulty and for spares or repairs, apples online warranty service showed it as still under warranty, so i added this to the description, buyer put in a item not as described claim saying he had spoken to apple on the phone and they told him the phone had been repaired by an unauthorized party and as such the warranty was null and void, he is claiming for a full refund and i will not oblige.

ebay are doing their pretend investigation and my paypal balance is now frozen, i will not refund him as in the advert i stated "faulty, spares or repairs and under condition: for parts only, and i also do not know what he may have done to the phone himself.

he gave me bad feedback "Beware selling useless damaged item already messup don't trust this seller" which makes no sense at all.

Today i received my 2nd ever bad feedback and this time a dispute via paypal, i sent a galaxy s2 also faulty via special delivery on the 30th of September , it was signed for on the 1st of October and as its been 18 days since then i assumed everything was fine, today i am informed that the buyer only received the item today as the address paypal and he provided was a freight holding company and he actually travels back and forth from Bulgaria and collects his parcels that way, this wasn't told to me and i would never have sent it knowing a 3rd party would be involved. He is also requesting a full refund but I 100% know the phone was shipped securely and signed for by an intermediate 17 days ago.

I will not give either of these in my opinion scammers their money back, i believe the 2nd buyer noticed i had been given bad feedback yesterday and thought he would try his luck also.

What i would like is peoples opinions on what is the likely outcome of ebay/paypals investigation, I know they favour the buyer 90% of the time, but in these circumstances i feel that i am totally in the right, I am that pxxxed off with this that i am considering cancelling my debit card in case the decision goes in the buyers way, but with speaking to my bank they reckon that if paypal requests my bank can give them my new card details, which to me sounds totally unnacceptable and downright rude.

your thoughts welcome!

85 Comments

To be fair, you probably won't get much of a say on whether you refund them or not. PayPal have the power to refund on your behalf, and there's nothing you can do about it. If the buyer for the iPhone has opened a PayPal dispute, you'll probably have to cough up and accept the phone back.

The Galaxy S2 case, if it has been signed for at the address provided to you for delivery, I see no reason why they will win the case - as long as you've got the tracking number you should be fine.

When I used to use Ebay/Paypal, (I now use Ebid) my Paypal account was frozen for 6 months! Ebay is too much hassle with too many scammers and too many people requesting refunds via Paypal. I am glad to be away from it and now use Google checkout with my Ebid listings.

Banned

welcome to ebay, sooner or later it gets everyone

under ebay rules you have 45 days to request a refund. what are the second persons reasons?

As for the iphone, you sold it as faulty but under warranty - i dont understand why you didnt get it fixed yourself and then sell it on. As the warranty is void then i agree he should get a refund, but it also depends if you disclosed it had been tampered with before. Either way you will lose anyway and have to refund.

Original Poster

Is ebid any good?, at a quick glance it looks rather amateur.

sprouthater

When I used to use Ebay/Paypal, (I now use Ebid) my Paypal account was … When I used to use Ebay/Paypal, (I now use Ebid) my Paypal account was frozen for 6 months! Ebay is too much hassle with too many scammers and too many people requesting refunds via Paypal. I am glad to be away from it and now use Google checkout with my Ebid listings.


They will refund and just take it out of your account. I had someone claim they did not receive a parcel that I delivered by hand - but did not get a signature. Ebay 'investigated' and gave a full refund.

Original Poster

The second person claims that i sent an empty box lol, and in regards with the iphone i also stated that i had no history or knowledge of the phone as i bought it at a local boot sale. So in my eyes the phone is spares or repair.

littlepinkstarz

under ebay rules you have 45 days to request a refund. what are the … under ebay rules you have 45 days to request a refund. what are the second persons reasons?As for the iphone, you sold it as faulty but under warranty - i dont understand why you didnt get it fixed yourself and then sell it on. As the warranty is void then i agree he should get a refund, but it also depends if you disclosed it had been tampered with before. Either way you will lose anyway and have to refund.



Edited by: "tragictramp" 19th Oct 2011

tragictramp

The second person claims that i sent an empty box lol


Dosn't the mail service weight it though?

Original Poster

On my special delivery postage receipt the weight is 0.210kg as it was phone only in a basic refurb box, but its hard to prove either way what a parcel should or shouldnt weigh.

alanlukeb1

Dosn't the mail service weight it though?


Original Poster

I was quite willing to let ebay decide the fate of the iphone, but this galaxy s2, i really believe the guy is trying to rip me off, especially using a 3rd party freight company to allegedly store his parcels, I actually rang them today and the assistant/receptionist didnt realise that they provided this service then told me that they have only recently started doing this, she tried connecting me to the person who actually signed for the parcel but he was unavailable so ill call again tomorrow.

Original Poster

I believed this comment in my advert would have made this case quite clear "THE PHONE IS BEING ADVERTISED AS SPARES OR REPAIR AND AS SUCH NO RETURNS WILL BE ACCEPTED!"
Edited by: "tragictramp" 19th Oct 2011

Did you know the apple warranty was void?

Here are my thoughts on your situation.........

"apples online warranty service showed it as still under warranty, so i added this to the description, buyer put in a item not as described claim saying he had spoken to apple on the phone and they told him the phone had been repaired by an unauthorized party and as such the warranty was null and void, he is claiming for a full refund and i will not oblige."

You indicate that he has spoken to Apple over phone and they have told him that the phone had been repaired by an unauthorised party. Does he have this in writing? How could Apple establish this without actually seeing the phone? What's to say that the buyer hasn't tampered with the phone?

Have you ever had the phone repaired by a unauthorised 3rd party?

Do you have a copy of the warranty that you could scan and email across to ebay and or paypal to assist them with there investigation? For example a warranty, receipt or screenshot from the Apple website.

I have had problems with Paypal in the past and if it looks as though it is going the way of the pear, you may wish to take it up with the FSA as Paypal are regulated by them. In the past, one of Paypal's kpi's was the number of complaints the FSA received about Paypal.

I had to go down this route a number of years ago and Paypal compensated me after the FSA got involved.

Edited by: "Grill" 19th Oct 2011

Original Poster

Hi, i have given the imei number to ebay to check the warranty themselves a link of the warranty checking database and a screengrab of apples online warranty status. I also dont know how apple can over the phone tell him that the phone has been repaired by an unauthorised party and certainly didnt do so myself.

Grill

Here are my thoughts on your situation........."apples online warranty … Here are my thoughts on your situation........."apples online warranty service showed it as still under warranty, so i added this to the description, buyer put in a item not as described claim saying he had spoken to apple on the phone and they told him the phone had been repaired by an unauthorized party and as such the warranty was null and void, he is claiming for a full refund and i will not oblige."You indicate that he has spoken to Apple over phone and they have told him that the phone had been repaired by an unauthorised party. Does he have this in writing? How could Apple establish this without actually seeing the phone? What's to say that the buyer hasn't tampered with the phone?Have you ever had the phone repaired by a unauthorised 3rd party?Do you have a copy of the warranty that you could scan and email across to ebay and or paypal to assist them with there investigation? For example a warranty, receipt or screenshot from the Apple website. I have had problems with Paypal in the past and if it looks as though it is going the way of the pear, you ,ay wish to take it up with the FSA as Paypal are regulated by them. In the past, one of Paypal's kpi's was the number of complaints the FSA received about Paypal.I had to go down this route a number of years ago and Paypal compensated me after the FSA got involved.



Edited by: "tragictramp" 19th Oct 2011

Original Poster

well anyway, do paypal have the right to request that my bank gives them my new card details if i cancel it and get a new one, and do my bank have the authority to allow this?

tragictramp

I believed this comment in my advert would have made this case quite … I believed this comment in my advert would have made this case quite clear "THE PHONE IS BEING ADVERTISED AS SPARES OR REPAIR AND AS SUCH NO RETURNS WILL BE ACCEPTED!"



Was it listed in the not working, Faulty category?

Otherwise those words mean nothing.

Original Poster

yes, was Item condition: For parts or not working

buyer has also come up with if i give him £146 and let him keep the phone he will get apple to replace it for a new one lol
this is the item number 290620522722 if anyone fancies a gander, and excuse my ebay name i changed it in anger today lol

shauneco

Was it listed in the not working, Faulty category?Otherwise those words … Was it listed in the not working, Faulty category?Otherwise those words mean nothing.




Edited by: "tragictramp" 19th Oct 2011

Well may be the warranty would be void as the phone might be blocked, i,e reported lost or stolen etc..

I think you've described it well etc.. but not as described would be hard to prove either way and sadly they generally side with the buyer.

I can't see how they would go against you as in your advert it says it all - but then again it is ebay - so they will probably favour the buyer

Original Poster

I can accept ebay might side with the buyer on this phone, but i will not accept the galaxy s2 was not in the box, especially when it was signed for 17 days ago, the buyer of this phone has actually gone on record in our paypal dispute stating that anyone could have handled the parcel after signature as it was sent to a holding company without informing me, especially since he now tells me he travels back and forth to bulgaria, i was never informed a 3rd party would have been involved or i would never have sent it.


shauneco

Well may be the warranty would be void as the phone might be blocked, i,e … Well may be the warranty would be void as the phone might be blocked, i,e reported lost or stolen etc..I think you've described it well etc.. but not as described would be hard to prove either way and sadly they generally side with the buyer.


PayPal/eBay nearly always ends cases in favour of the buyer. Even if you keep refusing, and even though you said no refunds, if they send it back to you and show the receipt to PayPal then they will receive a refund. If you have canceled your card associated with PayPal then they will have a debt collector hassle you, plus make you pay extra.

Original Poster

If they do favour the buyer, will he have to prove its been sent back before they try and take their payment back? I can accept this, ill just pay apple the money to replace it myself but only if i know im getting the phone back.

Ladeda

PayPal/eBay nearly always ends cases in favour of the buyer. Even if you … PayPal/eBay nearly always ends cases in favour of the buyer. Even if you keep refusing, and even though you said no refunds, if they send it back to you and show the receipt to PayPal then they will receive a refund. If you have canceled your card associated with PayPal then they will have a debt collector hassle you, plus make you pay extra.


In my two experiences, both times eBay told the buyer to return the item to me using recorded delivery and they were refunded automatically. Just make sure that the weight feels right before opening it, because they could send an empty box and still get a refund, provided they have a receipt/record number!

Edited by: "Ladeda" 19th Oct 2011

No refunds means nothing on ebay, and even if you change your bank details paypal still knows where you live and will want any money you owe them back.

For the second case, maybe ask the buyer if the packaging was tampered with in any way, and that you will be sure to get the police involved and will get them to contact him asap, oh and that the phone will be getting blocked and barred - and see how they react to that, some people with the mention of this seem to find the items extremely fast. Looking at his feedback he seems to be a dealer and trying it on.

For the iphone, the problem lies you listed it with warranty so most people will think its an easy fix, you can fight against it by saying it was listed as faulty, but the fault seems to be it is blacklisted perhaps.

Original Poster

Ill film the opening of the box if it is returned.

Ladeda

In my two experiences, both times eBay told the buyer to return the item … In my two experiences, both times eBay told the buyer to return the item to me using recorded delivery and they were refunded automatically. Just make sure that the weight feels right before opening it, because they could send an empty box and still get a refund, provided they have a receipt/record number!


and here http://feedback.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=geec1975&ftab=AllFeedback
google there name loads of scammer beware comments and all when he buys phones LOL!
I guess this guy got it right asweel " *
Reply by geec1975 (04-Sep-09 06:17):
what a prat complete liar and a con man scammer DO NOT TRUST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Edited by: "alanlukeb1" 19th Oct 2011

Ladeda

In my two experiences, both times eBay told the buyer to return the item … In my two experiences, both times eBay told the buyer to return the item to me using recorded delivery and they were refunded automatically. Just make sure that the weight feels right before opening it, because they could send an empty box and still get a refund, provided they have a receipt/record number!



If the phone or empty box whatever the case may be, is sent by recorded delivery and the vendor refuses to sign, Paypal could potentially rule in the buyers favor because the buyer will be able to prove that he/she has followed Paypal's rules.

If a buyer returns an empty box, what protection is there in place for the vendor?

I think you will find the answer is ZERO.

Some of Paypal's rules are ridiculous.
Edited by: "Grill" 19th Oct 2011

I beleive the iphone scammer is selling the phones on at a profit he/she has bought alot of phones and said they didn't turn up/ not as described. There is a alot of evidnece on a quick google of it and he/she has private feedback.

yeah looking at what the iphone guy is buying hes getting an awful lot of iphones, if you get it back id check the security numbers on both the phones and tell them they have a security mark on them and you will be checking that.

littlepinkstarz

yeah looking at what the iphone guy is buying hes getting an awful lot of … yeah looking at what the iphone guy is buying hes getting an awful lot of iphones, if you get it back id check the security numbers on both the phones and tell them they have a security mark on them and you will be checking that.


yep buying an awful lot of phones, paypal are fouls for allowing this scammer to do this.

Grill

If the phone or empty box whatever the case may be, is sent by recorded … If the phone or empty box whatever the case may be, is sent by recorded delivery and the vendor refuses to sign, Paypal could potentially rule in the buyers favor because the buyer will be able to prove that he/she has followed Paypal's rules.If a buyer returns an empty box, what protection is there in place for the vendor?I think you will find the answer is ZERO.Some of Paypal's rules are ridiculous.


Yeah I would suspect PayPal would still rule in the buyer's favour, they're that bad. Still if I got sent an empty box I would keep it wrapped up and take photos.

You have all the evidence you need to prove this ebayer is scam artist. What is he hiding behind his private feedback? You could also try contacting some of the other ebay members who have had their hands burnt by "hira_world (private)".
Edited by: "Grill" 19th Oct 2011

Id be more concerned with getting another phone back or something thats been tampered with. On the grounds its was listed correctly as faulty the op should win, however its paypal, so if you lose i would appeal.

Grill

You have all the evidence you need to prove this ebayer is scam artist. … You have all the evidence you need to prove this ebayer is scam artist. Surely, What is he hiding behind with his private feedback? You could also try contacting some of the other ebay members who have had their hands burnt by "hira_world (private)".



Im assuming its because he is a dealer and leaving alot of negs for the sellers.

Original Poster

is their any evidence of hiraworld claiming any items have not arrived before? the private feedback restricts me from seeing anything.

Beware don't trust this seller selling used phone when describe brand new phone Buyer: Member id hira_world (private) 03-Sep-09 08:16
■Reply by geec1975 (04-Sep-09 06:17):
what a prat complete liar and a con man scammer DO NOT TRUST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- -- Private

Beware not trustworthy not willing to send the item two weeks no response Buyer: Member ID hira_world (private) 24-Mar-11 22:51
Nokia 5800 XpressMusic Mobile Phone (#170614015978) £25.00

Not impress with the service requested so many times regarding for correct code Buyer: hira_world (private) 08-Apr-09 04:53
Unlocking Codes For Vodafone Handsets (#260371139353) GBP 2.99

if you go on goofbay you can see what they have bought recently and then you can view the sellers feedback and his comments.
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