Entitled to overtime to be included in your holiday pay

24
Found 20th Aug 2017
I'm not going to put all the details down, but a recent court ruling on 31 July has reaffirmed that VOLUNTARY overtime worked, assuming it's not very sporadic, should be factored into the first 4 weeks of your holiday pay.

To reaffirm this ruling, ACAS haved updated their guidance. m.acas.org.uk/ind…109


So, hopefully your employer is doing this already, but unlikely, and if they are, superb. If they are not, technically you can take them to tribunal which can go back 24 months (i.e. 8 week's holiday pay) and factor your underpayments.

If for example you regularly work 10 hours a week overtime over and above a 40 hour week, you have likely just been paid 40 hours for each holiday week. Under the new rules you are affectively being underpaid 10 hours for each holiday period (this ruling is limited to the first 4 weeks of holidays), so over 24 months you may have been underpaid almost 2 months wages in this example.

Worth looking into.

For more info, just Google holiday pay, overtime ruling 2017 etc.

And you can point out to your employer the ACAS link above which now says 'volintary' overtime must be included.
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Literally every single person that I know that is in a management role of some kind does not receive a penny of overtime, despite regularly doing well over their contracted weekly hours.
I'm talking in excess of a hundred people in different organisations across the UK.

Are you saying that all of these people can technically take some kind of legal action against their employers?

EDIT: I think majority opted out of the working time directive, and not necessarily because they wanted to do that.
Edited by: "Bestard" 20th Aug 2017
Destard7 m ago

Literally every single person that I know that is in a management role of …Literally every single person that I know that is in a management role of some kind does not receive a penny of overtime, despite regularly doing well over their contracted weekly hours.I'm talking in excess of a hundred people in different organisations across the UK.Are you saying that all of these people can technically take some kind of legal action against their employers?EDIT: I think majority opted out of the working time directive, and not necessarily because they wanted to do that.


If you bothered reading the article you could answer your own question.
shadey127 m ago

If you bothered reading the article you could answer your own question.


I'm sorry, you sound annoyed like you've lost an arguement somewhere else or something?
Original Poster
Destard19 m ago

Literally every single person that I know that is in a management role of …Literally every single person that I know that is in a management role of some kind does not receive a penny of overtime, despite regularly doing well over their contracted weekly hours.I'm talking in excess of a hundred people in different organisations across the UK.Are you saying that all of these people can technically take some kind of legal action against their employers?EDIT: I think majority opted out of the working time directive, and not necessarily because they wanted to do that.




I would be fairly sure that they have not recorded their overtime and have not been paid for it through their employers systems and as such would not be eligible.

ACAS would give guidance.

And for clarity I am not saying anything other than speak to ACAS or your company HR etc.
Destard5 m ago

I'm sorry, you sound annoyed like you've lost an arguement somewhere else …I'm sorry, you sound annoyed like you've lost an arguement somewhere else or something?

You have some very strange ideas destard.
Merely pointing out the obvious, like on the other thread, only trying to help you understand (if you didn't quote me or ask obvious questions, I wouldn't respond)
Original Poster
Destard20 m ago

Literally every single person that I know that is in a management role of …Literally every single person that I know that is in a management role of some kind does not receive a penny of overtime, despite regularly doing well over their contracted weekly hours.I'm talking in excess of a hundred people in different organisations across the UK.Are you saying that all of these people can technically take some kind of legal action against their employers?EDIT: I think majority opted out of the working time directive, and not necessarily because they wanted to do that.


Also, I do not believe opting out of the working time directive is relivant to this recent ruling.
It had recently always been one twelfth of the previous twice weeks wages, but unscrupulous bosses have put their own slew on this rules for their own benefit. Now they have cleared this up perhaps HRC departments will realise that they too week be owed monies and not be so righteous at screwing the masses for every penny they can.
Employees are an asset.
Original Poster
mrty10 m ago

It had recently always been one twelfth of the previous twice weeks wages, …It had recently always been one twelfth of the previous twice weeks wages, but unscrupulous bosses have put their own slew on this rules for their own benefit. Now they have cleared this up perhaps HRC departments will realise that they too week be owed monies and not be so righteous at screwing the masses for every penny they can. Employees are an asset.


It has never been clear, historically voluntary overtime need not be applied to full time workers, this is what's changed.
Anyway the point to take away is to check if you are being treated fairly.
My own organisation has within it's employment t&cs that the first hour of overtime on a normal working day is unpaid.
Original Poster
Destard16 m ago

My own organisation has within it's employment t&cs that the first hour of …My own organisation has within it's employment t&cs that the first hour of overtime on a normal working day is unpaid.


That's possible fine, I'm not sure, but that has very little to do with the calculation of your holiday pay which this recent ruling is about
Destard33 m ago

My own organisation has within it's employment t&cs that the first hour of …My own organisation has within it's employment t&cs that the first hour of overtime on a normal working day is unpaid.


I don't believe that is valid now as new legislation 'Trumps' ( for a better word) pre existing agreements.
my employer has been doing this since the start of the year, i always wondered what the 'average holiday pay' line on my payslip was for in the months i did overtime
Destard1 h, 50 m ago

Literally every single person that I know that is in a management role of …Literally every single person that I know that is in a management role of some kind does not receive a penny of overtime, despite regularly doing well over their contracted weekly hours.I'm talking in excess of a hundred people in different organisations across the UK.Are you saying that all of these people can technically take some kind of legal action against their employers?EDIT: I think majority opted out of the working time directive, and not necessarily because they wanted to do that.


what about when they "work from home" or take time off in lieu? that is what our managers do, every week!
Original Poster
joesmum4 m ago

what about when they "work from home" or take time off in lieu? that is …what about when they "work from home" or take time off in lieu? that is what our managers do, every week!

I would believe if they are paid for their overtime and if it is recorded then it should be factored into holiday pay.

If they are not paid for overtime then it will not be factored into holiday pay as they are voluntary working extra hours for no payment.
If you a manager and you do regular paid overtime it will be factored in your holiday pay. If you are manager but do not get paid overtime just your standard salary unfortunately you are out of luck.
Original Poster
Snoop718 m ago

If you a manager and you do regular paid overtime it will be factored in …If you a manager and you do regular paid overtime it will be factored in your holiday pay. If you are manager but do not get paid overtime just your standard salary unfortunately you are out of luck.


Yep, is that not exactly what I said. But at least the point is clear
Destard19 h, 49 m ago

My own organisation has within it's employment t&cs that the first hour of …My own organisation has within it's employment t&cs that the first hour of overtime on a normal working day is unpaid.


That's fine, as long as it doesn't potentially mean their average hourly pay doesn't take them below the Living Wage.
(though i probably expect no one will be close to it.)

As for Holiday pay averages. It basically means that you should earn on average the same pay as if you had been working.
This should include commission, overtime, regular bonuses, etc.
I never get overtime, and I never expect it. I don't work in a factory, if I started trying to claim my overtime I wouldn't be thought very highly of and would not get ahead in my career.
Original Poster
CoeK7 h, 2 m ago

I never get overtime, and I never expect it. I don't work in a factory, …I never get overtime, and I never expect it. I don't work in a factory, if I started trying to claim my overtime I wouldn't be thought very highly of and would not get ahead in my career.


If you don't ask for it and don't get paid for it then the ruling has no effect on you.
I work 45 hrs per week with up to one hour overtime per day which sometimes can be regular for weeks. They say overtime is mandatory amd overtime is paid time and a half.

Do this apply to me?

TIA
ibblackberry121st Aug

If you don't ask for it and don't get paid for it then the ruling has no …If you don't ask for it and don't get paid for it then the ruling has no effect on you.



I know, I do some of the payroll here unfortunately.

My reply was really meant for the first comment, I should have quoted it.
whoMODStheMODS8 h, 47 m ago

I work 45 hrs per week with up to one hour overtime per day which …I work 45 hrs per week with up to one hour overtime per day which sometimes can be regular for weeks. They say overtime is mandatory amd overtime is paid time and a half. Do this apply to me?TIA



Yes.
Original Poster
whoMODStheMODS23rd Aug

I work 45 hrs per week with up to one hour overtime per day which …I work 45 hrs per week with up to one hour overtime per day which sometimes can be regular for weeks. They say overtime is mandatory amd overtime is paid time and a half. Do this apply to me?TIA


Yes, although if they refused to factor it into your holiday pay, the end result if they didn't budge would be tribunal.

An hour a day, would mean your under paid 20 hours a year approx for your holidays, which would be £75+ gross, it would be your choice as to whether it's worth a tribunal route for that.

I would say it is definitely worth a conversation with your line manager and payroll dept because it affects you and based on recent court cases you are being underpaid.
ibblackberry124th Aug

Yes, although if they refused to factor it into your holiday pay, the end …Yes, although if they refused to factor it into your holiday pay, the end result if they didn't budge would be tribunal.An hour a day, would mean your under paid 20 hours a year approx for your holidays, which would be £75+ gross, it would be your choice as to whether it's worth a tribunal route for that.I would say it is definitely worth a conversation with your line manager and payroll dept because it affects you and based on recent court cases you are being underpaid.


Thanks!
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