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    fixed line connection sytem as well or totally internet based system

    This is old news, but worth a revisit in light of Ransomware hitting the world last week , BT wants to get rid of fixed line connection (which still allows one to connect to the internet using a modem which does 28.8 kbits connection optionally).
    .
    But do you know that fixed line connection is more secure than your broadband connection?
    .
    Since fixed line is not internet based therefore one does not get the hacking, malware, ransomware by virtual of not connected to the internet unless you open a modem data connection. This allows landline verbal communication even when the internet is down or when your ISP , mobile phone company network is down. As a benefit for example , in cyber warefare, the enemy could disrupt your internet but unable to destroy your fixed line connection easily? (As can be seen from the Ransomware as an illustration, computers had to be switched off and discsonnected from networks.)

    49 Comments

    what are you trying to say?
    BT aren't getting rid of analogue phone lines.

    Yes, you are less likely to be hacked, ransomware, malware, virus etc etc when not connected to the internet. What has that go to do with analogue connections?

    What?

    > This is old news, but worth a revisit in light of Ransomware hitting the world last week , BT wants to get rid of fixed line connection (which still allows one to connect to the internet using a modem which does 28.8 kbits connection optionally).

    What's the relevance between ransomware and how you physically connect to the internet? Why does BT want to get rid of landlines? Why do you write specifically 28.8k?


    > But do you know that fixed line connection is more secure than your broadband connection?

    None of this makes sense. A broadband connection is a fast connection, regardless of the medium through which it connects. Most people's broadband connections connect via fixed-line.



    > Since fixed line is not internet based therefore one does not get the hacking, malware, ransomware by virtual of not connected to the internet unless you open a modem data connection.

    Fixed-line is not internet based because no connection is internet-based. You connect your router to your provider's local access point. Your provider connects you to the internet. None of how you connect has any baring on how likely you are to be hacked, to suffer malware, ransomware, or etc. This is What Hi-Fi HDMI cable review levels of BS.



    > This allows landline verbal communication even when the internet is down or when your ISP , mobile phone company network is down.

    This is the only accurate point in your post, although I struggle to see how it's in any way relevant.


    > As a benefit for example , in cyber warefare, the enemy could disrupt your internet but unable to destroy your fixed line connection easily?

    Why would they want to destroy your fixed line, even if they could? There's literally no benefit to a cyber criminal in having you offline. They can't do anything to your computer if you're offline. A cyber criminal wanting you offline would be like a mugger wanting you to stay in.



    -----

    Your post illustrates exactly why the NHS wound up in the position it's in now. When people talk absolute nonsense like that, you end up with the 'boy cried wolf' situation, where serious warnings (like the ones issued repeatedly over the past few years through legit publications by respected specialists) end up being ignored.
    Edited by: "dxx" 14th May

    Original Poster

    japes

    what are you trying to say?BT aren't getting rid of analogue phone … what are you trying to say?BT aren't getting rid of analogue phone lines.Yes, you are less likely to be hacked, ransomware, malware, virus etc etc when not connected to the internet. What has that go to do with analogue connections?



    dxx

    What? This is old news, but worth a revisit in light of Ransomware … What?> This is old news, but worth a revisit in light of Ransomware hitting the world last week , BT wants to get rid of fixed line connection (which still allows one to connect to the internet using a modem which does 28.8 kbits connection optionally).What's the relevance between ransomware and how you physically connect to the internet? Why does BT want to get rid of landlines? Why do you write specifically 28.8k?> But do you know that fixed line connection is more secure than your broadband connection?None of this makes sense. A broadband connection is a fast connection, regardless of the medium through which it connects. Most people's broadband connections connect via fixed-line. > Since fixed line is not internet based therefore one does not get the hacking, malware, ransomware by virtual of not connected to the internet unless you open a modem data connection.Fixed-line is not internet based because no connection is internet-based. You connect your router to your provider's local access point. Your provider connects you to the internet. None of how you connect has any baring on how likely you are to be hacked, to suffer malware, ransomware, or etc. This is What Hi-Fi HDMI cable review levels of BS.> This allows landline verbal communication even when the internet is down or when your ISP , mobile phone company network is down.This is the only accurate point in your post, although I struggle to see how it's in any way relevant.> As a benefit for example , in cyber warefare, the enemy could disrupt your internet but unable to destroy your fixed line connection easily? Why would they want to destroy your fixed line, even if they could? There's literally no benefit to a cyber criminal in having you offline. They can't do anything to your computer if you're offline. A cyber criminal wanting you offline would be like a mugger wanting you to stay in. -----Your post illustrates exactly why the NHS wound up in the position it's in now. When people talk absolute nonsense like that, you end up with the 'boy cried wolf' situation, where serious warnings (like the ones issued repeatedly over the past few years through legit publications by respected specialists) end up being ignored.


    Nothing, they are not connected, that's the point, fixed line or analogue is not "the internet" so it is independent and can be working when the internet is down.

    Oh my days.. X)

    japes

    what are you trying to say?BT aren't getting rid of analogue phone … what are you trying to say?BT aren't getting rid of analogue phone lines.Yes, you are less likely to be hacked, ransomware, malware, virus etc etc when not connected to the internet. What has that go to do with analogue connections?

    dxx

    What? This is old news, but worth a revisit in light of Ransomware … What?> This is old news, but worth a revisit in light of Ransomware hitting the world last week , BT wants to get rid of fixed line connection (which still allows one to connect to the internet using a modem which does 28.8 kbits connection optionally).What's the relevance between ransomware and how you physically connect to the internet? Why does BT want to get rid of landlines? Why do you write specifically 28.8k?> But do you know that fixed line connection is more secure than your broadband connection?None of this makes sense. A broadband connection is a fast connection, regardless of the medium through which it connects. Most people's broadband connections connect via fixed-line. > Since fixed line is not internet based therefore one does not get the hacking, malware, ransomware by virtual of not connected to the internet unless you open a modem data connection.Fixed-line is not internet based because no connection is internet-based. You connect your router to your provider's local access point. Your provider connects you to the internet. None of how you connect has any baring on how likely you are to be hacked, to suffer malware, ransomware, or etc. This is What Hi-Fi HDMI cable review levels of BS.> This allows landline verbal communication even when the internet is down or when your ISP , mobile phone company network is down.This is the only accurate point in your post, although I struggle to see how it's in any way relevant.> As a benefit for example , in cyber warefare, the enemy could disrupt your internet but unable to destroy your fixed line connection easily? Why would they want to destroy your fixed line, even if they could? There's literally no benefit to a cyber criminal in having you offline. They can't do anything to your computer if you're offline. A cyber criminal wanting you offline would be like a mugger wanting you to stay in. -----Your post illustrates exactly why the NHS wound up in the position it's in now. When people talk absolute nonsense like that, you end up with the 'boy cried wolf' situation, where serious warnings (like the ones issued repeatedly over the past few years through legit publications by respected specialists) end up being ignored.



    Why do you think this is useful, important, or relevant to digital security? Are you basically just talking about going back to 56k when your broadband connection drops?

    Pretty sure they mean they're dropping/dropped Dial up internet. Bad news if you're rocking on a Dreamcast but makes no difference to the average user. Not sure why anyone would want a 56kbit connection but I guess some old school types might want to check up on Prestel or a BBS. Internet wise I doubt this is an issue as BT broadband is only slightly faster than dial up anyway

    The information provided by the OP is somewhat inaqurate.

    Original Poster

    dxx

    Why do you think this is useful, important, or relevant to digital … Why do you think this is useful, important, or relevant to digital security? Are you basically just talking about going back to 56k when your broadband connection drops?


    My point is fixed line is a vital alternative mode of communications and we as a nation needs to keep it rather than going totally internet.

    Original Poster

    ukez

    The information provided by the OP is somewhat inaqurate.


    This is old news from 2015 when annoucement of intention was made by BT. It was discussed widely then whether we still needed fixed line or eliminate it altogether going into the future. Mine is a general question here to test understanding or misunderstaning of the possible demise of the BT analogue lines. As demonstrated by you, clearly, it is easy to misunderstand, just like last week when randomware blew up, it was a disaster, obviously it is better to undertand whys and wherefores prior to a disaster than being wise after a disaster.

    splender

    My point is fixed line is a vital alternative mode of communications and … My point is fixed line is a vital alternative mode of communications and we as a nation needs to keep it rather than going totally internet.



    No idea what your are talking about

    splender

    My point is fixed line is a vital alternative mode of communications and … My point is fixed line is a vital alternative mode of communications and we as a nation needs to keep it rather than going totally internet.



    So, your argument is that we should keep landlines so we can call and speak to people, in case the Internet (and presumably also mobile network) get taken down by hackers?

    dxx

    So, your argument is that we should keep landlines so we can call and … So, your argument is that we should keep landlines so we can call and speak to people, in case the Internet (and presumably also mobile network) get taken down by hackers?



    I am never quite sure if splender is incredibly clever (but cannot write in complete sentences in English), or English is not his/her first language & this is hindered with comprehension issues.

    Either way, writing in shorter sentences, with just one or two clauses, seems to help everybody else.

    ukez

    The information provided by the OP is somewhat inaqurate.


    As is your spelling,

    Ah, how I miss the wonders of a dial-up connection, the hideously slow speeds, your isp cutting you off mid download and their modems being engaged at peak times and blocking your login from reconnecting because they've drastically oversubscribed for the number of modem racks they've leased. And no-one being able to ring you while you are on line. I also found dial-up far more susceptible to noise on my line than ADSL, to the point that while the adsl was flakey a dial-up connection wouldn't even connect. (my line had an intermittent fault for a few years running, due to water in the junction boxes)


    And then there's the risk of huge phone bills from premium rate number dialling malware, no router providing NAT or firewall protection against inbound connections (other than whatever firewall software you've installed on you PC itself).

    I wish openreach would rip out the copper lines and replace them with glass fibre since it isn't so vulnerable to the weather

    As for the ransomware attacks, one wonders why the network traffic to hospital computers, especially ones installed in specialist equipment like x-ray machines running obsolete copies of windows isn't more filtered and restricted to isolate them from office machines that might get exposed to malware. Maybe the NHS should seek help from the banks and ATM network.


    Edited by: "melted" 14th May

    melted

    Ah, how I miss the wonders of a dial-up connection, the hideously slow … Ah, how I miss the wonders of a dial-up connection, the hideously slow speeds, your isp cutting you off mid download and their modems being engaged at peak times and blocking your login from reconnecting because they've drastically oversubscribed for the number of modem racks they've leased. And no-one being able to ring you while you are on line. I also found dial-up far more susceptible to noise on my line than ADSL, to the point that while the adsl was flakey a dial-up connection wouldn't even connect. (my line had an intermittent fault for a few years running, due to water in the junction boxes)And then there's the risk of huge phone bills from premium rate number dialling malware, no router providing NAT or firewall protection against inbound connections (other than whatever firewall software you've installed on you PC itself).I wish openreach would rip out the copper lines and replace them with glass fibre since it isn't so vulnerable to the weather :)As for the ransomware attacks, one wonders why the network traffic to hospital computers, especially ones installed in specialist equipment like x-ray machines running obsolete copies of windows isn't more filtered and restricted to isolate them from office machines that might get exposed to malware. Maybe the NHS should seek help from the banks and ATM network.



    ​Because unlike an ATM machine, the data from all these Speciaist machines need to be accessed on desktops workstations..... the consultants need to see the x-rays if they're able to give a diagnosis

    Not sure if I'm understanding the OP's thread but here goes

    I'd sooner be without internet than go back to dialup internet whereby you had to wait 3 hours for a complete download of an mp3 in average quality whilst having to use an additional program to stop other programs accessing the internet and yet another program to see if you can speed boost the connection and yet another program to check if there's multiple sites to speed up the download process.

    I have better things to do with my time like going out in the fresh air or if it's raining hard playing or re-playing some of the 1000's of movies/tv shows/albums stored on my server.

    inb4 it was the OP that hacked the NHS

    X)

    I think the OP must have a lorry load of those AOL Dial Up CD's to sell, unlucky for him there's no FS/FT forum on here anymore. Master plan foiled!

    Original Poster

    super_leeds_86

    I think the OP must have a lorry load of those AOL Dial Up CD's to sell, … I think the OP must have a lorry load of those AOL Dial Up CD's to sell, unlucky for him there's no FS/FT forum on here anymore. Master plan foiled!


    You don't need a modem to talk on fixed analogue lines, it has been so since telephone was invented.

    Original Poster

    BillySollox

    inb4 it was the OP that hacked the NHS X)


    You talk on the telephone to anyone with a landline (fixe analogue line), you don't have to exclusively use your phone line to NHS in a massive global hack on the internet.

    I don't understand, BT still have fixed lines as long as routers still have connectors you can still plug things in, although good luck now days as tablets and phones are mainly used and are wifi only.

    I think only cretins wouldn't realise that using cables is more secure but the chances of having a international criminal living a few doors down rather then just a freeloader are pretty low.

    melted

    Ah, how I miss the wonders of a dial-up connection, the hideously slow … Ah, how I miss the wonders of a dial-up connection, the hideously slow speeds, your isp cutting you off mid download and their modems being engaged at peak times and blocking your login from reconnecting because they've drastically oversubscribed for the number of modem racks they've leased. And no-one being able to ring you while you are on line. I also found dial-up far more susceptible to noise on my line than ADSL, to the point that while the adsl was flakey a dial-up connection wouldn't even connect. (my line had an intermittent fault for a few years running, due to water in the junction boxes)And then there's the risk of huge phone bills from premium rate number dialling malware, no router providing NAT or firewall protection against inbound connections (other than whatever firewall software you've installed on you PC itself).I wish openreach would rip out the copper lines and replace them with glass fibre since it isn't so vulnerable to the weather :)As for the ransomware attacks, one wonders why the network traffic to hospital computers, especially ones installed in specialist equipment like x-ray machines running obsolete copies of windows isn't more filtered and restricted to isolate them from office machines that might get exposed to malware. Maybe the NHS should seek help from the banks and ATM network.



    Why are hospitals even running Windows, they should be using unix, if they must they could have windows at the front end for a few offices and reception staff but running thru a unix system to have access to records and things, and no system should be on the internet that doesn't need to be, they are perfectly capable of running an internal system independent of the plebs lines, with the amount they wasted on the NHS computer system abd using the stupid government approved vendor lists, they could have connected every hospital in the country with a private fibre network completely separate to BT and bought a better cheaper computer system.

    Error440

    I don't understand, BT still have fixed lines as long as routers still … I don't understand, BT still have fixed lines as long as routers still have connectors you can still plug things in, although good luck now days as tablets and phones are mainly used and are wifi only.I think only cretins wouldn't realise that using cables is more secure but the chances of having a international criminal living a few doors down rather then just a freeloader are pretty low.



    I believe the OP is referring to BT's desire to get rid of OFCOM's requirement for them to provide POTS - the plain old telephone system, and switch subscribers to using VOIP over a broadband connection, which should cut costs.
    No reason it should be less secure either.

    bit-tech.net/new…s/1

    melted

    I believe the OP is referring to BT's desire to get rid of OFCOM's … I believe the OP is referring to BT's desire to get rid of OFCOM's requirement for them to provide POTS - the plain old telephone system, and switch subscribers to using VOIP over a broadband connection, which should cut costs. No reason it should be less secure either.https://www.bit-tech.net/news/bits/2015/06/26/bt-shutter-pots/1



    But is that wireless or over fibre or something? I can't imagine it would be wireless when there's many places in tne countryside that can't get a signal, it would also put them in direct competition with mobiles​ with no 1up over them


    I really haven't got a clue what this thread is about or what connection anything BT does has to do with the NHS hacking.
    Edited by: "Error440" 15th May

    Error440

    But is that wireless or over fibre or something? I can't imagine it would … But is that wireless or over fibre or something? I can't imagine it would be wireless when there's many places in tne countryside that can't get a signal, it would also put them in direct competition with mobiles with no 1up over themI really haven't got a clue what this thread is about or what connection anything BT does has to do with the NHS hacking.




    BT would not be getting rid of the phone lines themselves (although it would make it easier to switch lines to fibre), just discontinuing the old fashioned analogue voice phone service, so all telephone lines would be broadband (adsl/vdsl ot fttp) enabled and customers would be supplied with a voip router to plug their phones into, instead of the current system which converts analogue calls to voip using equipment located at bt exchanges.

    It really does not have anything to do with the NHS hacking at-all, but the OP seems to be trying to suggest that
    switching to voip would make the voice system similarly vulnerable to hacking and that we should stick to POTS.



    Edited by: "melted" 15th May

    Op what about the servers all the data is stored on does that have to dial up too?
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vNf9jd-Dh6k/TIjusEPR5nI/AAAAAAAAAL4/UVIQdwFhP_g/s1600/simpsons+cisco+systems.png

    Error440

    Why are hospitals even running Windows, they should be using unix, if … Why are hospitals even running Windows, they should be using unix, if they must they could have windows at the front end for a few offices and reception staff but running thru a unix system to have access to records and things, and no system should be on the internet that doesn't need to be, they are perfectly capable of running an internal system independent of the plebs lines, with the amount they wasted on the NHS computer system abd using the stupid government approved vendor lists, they could have connected every hospital in the country with a private fibre network completely separate to BT and bought a better cheaper computer system.



    ^This. Or (my personal preference) Linux instead of Unix. The situation we have now is to a large extent the product of "throwing money at a problem". Thanks New Labour.

    3guesses

    ^This. Or (my personal preference) Linux instead of Unix. The situation … ^This. Or (my personal preference) Linux instead of Unix. The situation we have now is to a large extent the product of "throwing money at a problem". Thanks New Labour.



    Same thing, linux is just the user friendly version, its all the same code, at base level it wouldn't matter which it is as the people using it would be I.T experts and trained for the system, its the people in offices and reception who would need the user friendly one, but most people are so stuck in there ways it would just be easier having a windows front end for them exchanging data to unix systems.

    As far as i am aware alot of hospital equipment is Solaris anyway so why things like x rays were cancelled during the hack I don't understand, maybe they panicked or maybe everything really is windows only now more fools them.

    I would not fully blame nulabour as they are still at it, cash thrown at mates rather then looking for the best deal, probably the case before Blair too. One of my brothers friends is a computer consultant who's worked on government contracts, he did a system that was just over 100k, said he could have done it for 30k and it would have been better if he was allowed to buy what was best for the job instead of being forced to pick things from a list.
    Edited by: "Error440" 16th May

    I've worked in telecoms for a while as a tech/engineer (Vermin>BT>Openreach) and I haven't a clue what the OP is talking about.

    Original Poster

    Paddy_o_furniture

    I've worked in telecoms for a while as a tech/engineer … I've worked in telecoms for a while as a tech/engineer (Vermin>BT>Openreach) and I haven't a clue what the OP is talking about.


    Let me bow to your assumed better expertise, mine is rubbish then. Offer us some explanations that is correct and that you know what you are talking about for others and me to be clued up.

    Edited by: "splender" 16th May

    splender

    Let me bow to your assumed better expertise, mine is rubbish then. Offer … Let me bow to your assumed better expertise, mine is rubbish then. Offer us some explanations that is correct and that you know what you are talking about for others and me to be clued up.



    Ask me a question, in constructed English and I shall try to answer. Your original post is just words jumbled together.

    Right I finally think I have my head round it.
    Broadband is generally delivered in the UK over BT wholesales predominately copper network, (some alminium in there from when the copper price was sky high.) A fixed line telephone line is VERY easy to hack into, there are several points in the network where you could gain access to a end users line and run up high bills, call 999 or generally cause a nuisance for yourself. Some services (not so much these days) identity you via your caller line identification (CLI) which opens up the possibility of fraud etc.

    BT have talked about VOIP for years but as yet no plans to roll it out. Vermin have VOIP ports on their hub, but again the service is not live.

    In short normal phone lines aren't secure, they are easily hacked into and you need very little kit to do so.

    Systems such as the obsolete Ptarmigan WAN is/was secure. It's been superseded by Falcon now in the UK military.
    Edited by: "Paddy_o_furniture" 16th May

    Original Poster

    Paddy_o_furniture

    Right I finally think I have my head round it. Broadband is generally … Right I finally think I have my head round it. Broadband is generally delivered in the UK over BT wholesales predominately copper network, (some alminium in there from when the copper price was sky high.) A fixed line telephone line is VERY easy to hack into, there are several points in the network where you could gain access to a end users line and run up high bills, call 999 or generally cause a nuisance for yourself. Some services (not so much these days) identity you via your caller line identification (CLI) which opens up the possibility of fraud etc.BT have talked about VOIP for years but as yet no plans to roll it out. Vermin have VOIP ports on their hub, but again the service is not live. In short normal phone lines aren't secure, they are easily hacked into and you need very little kit to do so.Systems such as the obsolete Ptarmigan WAN is/was secure. It's been superseded by Falcon now in the UK military.


    Thanks for that, I think we are talking cross purposes:-
    When was there ever an incident where a terror, vandal, denial of service, virus, malware, fradulent threat in security resulted in thousands of telephones at home or offices not working which are connected to fixed copper telephone lines? In contrast say, to digital devices (including VOIP) connected to the internet?
    However you hack into telephone lines, the phones are not rendered useless like they can through the internet to a PC connected to an IP network. Therefore in a serious outage where one broadband supplier is knocked out or no mobile network, like her standard.co.uk/new…tml, one could at least have a Plan B which is to use fixed line copper analogue telephone lines.
    Another example is, the bottom line, when there is a local power cut for a day or more, the BT landline usually still work when your broadband is out for lack of mains power.






    Edited by: "splender" 17th May

    Error440

    Same thing, linux is just the user friendly version, its all the same … Same thing, linux is just the user friendly version, its all the same code, at base level it wouldn't matter which it is as the people using it would be I.T experts and trained for the system, its the people in offices and reception who would need the user friendly one, but most people are so stuck in there ways it would just be easier having a windows front end for them exchanging data to unix systems.As far as i am aware alot of hospital equipment is Solaris anyway so why things like x rays were cancelled during the hack I don't understand, maybe they panicked or maybe everything really is windows only now more fools them.I would not fully blame nulabour as they are still at it, cash thrown at mates rather then looking for the best deal, probably the case before Blair too. One of my brothers friends is a computer consultant who's worked on government contracts, he did a system that was just over 100k, said he could have done it for 30k and it would have been better if he was allowed to buy what was best for the job instead of being forced to pick things from a list.



    You sort of make my point for me: because there is a sizeable budget available, the more expensive solutions are (incorrectly) deemed to be superior. Had the budget been tighter it would have been necessary to implement better, smarter solutions. Throwing money at problems just leads to lazy/poor solutions. That is what New Labour did around the turn of the millennium, and now every Government of the day is a hotage to that level of inefficient spending.

    “Easy money makes a wild town.” -- C.B. Glasscock (The War of the Copper Kings)

    (BTW yes I know what Linux is - my understanding is that it is better supported on PCs than regular Unixes, but this is not my field of expertise.)

    splender

    Thanks for that, I think we are talking cross purposes:-When was there … Thanks for that, I think we are talking cross purposes:-When was there ever an incident where a terror, vandal, denial of service, virus, malware, fradulent threat in security resulted in thousands of telephones at home or offices not working which are connected to fixed copper telephone lines? In contrast say, to digital devices (including VOIP) connected to the internet?However you hack into telephone lines, the phones are not rendered useless like they can through the internet to a PC connected to an IP network. Therefore in a serious outage where one broadband supplier is knocked out or no mobile network, like her http://www.standard.co.uk/news/techandgadgets/ee-network-down-thousands-of-people-without-internet-after-mobile-phone-4g-internet-crash-a3540046.html, one could at least have a Plan B which is to use fixed line copper analogue telephone lines.Another example is, the bottom line, when there is a local power cut for a day or more, the BT landline usually still work when your broadband is out for lack of mains power.



    Its not tin cans on string the analogue lines still run through IT systems which can be hacked into equally if not easier than any digital system, the NHS problem was not the digital delivery of the system but the security flaws in the outdated software.

    Edited by: "haritori" 17th May

    splender

    When was there ever an incident where a terror, vandal, denial of … When was there ever an incident where a terror, vandal, denial of service, virus, malware, fradulent threat in security resulted in thousands of telephones at home or offices not working which are connected to fixed copper telephone lines? In contrast say, to digital devices (including VOIP) connected to the internet?




    While I was on a fully unbundled service last year, my phone and broadband and that of everyone else using the same ISP in the area spread over a number of exchanges, went down for at least 24 hours, apparently due to a hardware fault in their equipment at one of the exchanges.

    Also I gather some fully unbundled ISPs are a bit lacking in redundancy, so one inadvertently cut fibre optic cable (eg by thieves looking for copper) can take out the telephone and broadband services of a lot of customers.


    I can also recall reading a news item some years ago about an exchange being broke into and an ISPs LLU equipment being ripped out and stolen, cutting off their customers, although I can't recall if they carried telephone service, or were just ADSL.
    Edited by: "melted" 17th May

    splender

    Thanks for that, I think we are talking cross purposes:-When was there … Thanks for that, I think we are talking cross purposes:-When was there ever an incident where a terror, vandal, denial of service, virus, malware, fradulent threat in security resulted in thousands of telephones at home or offices not working which are connected to fixed copper telephone lines? In contrast say, to digital devices (including VOIP) connected to the internet?However you hack into telephone lines, the phones are not rendered useless like they can through the internet to a PC connected to an IP network. Therefore in a serious outage where one broadband supplier is knocked out or no mobile network, like her http://www.standard.co.uk/news/techandgadgets/ee-network-down-thousands-of-people-without-internet-after-mobile-phone-4g-internet-crash-a3540046.html, one could at least have a Plan B which is to use fixed line copper analogue telephone lines.Another example is, the bottom line, when there is a local power cut for a day or more, the BT landline usually still work when your broadband is out for lack of mains power.



    Trunk cables carry 1000's of lines before they filter their way down to Primary Connection Points (PCP) the little green boxes. Burn out one of them, you'll take 800+ subs out and I've seen it happen. Burn out an exchange and you'll cripple a small city. Fixed line telephone lines would be an easy target for an "enemy" to disrupt.

    3guesses

    You sort of make my point for me: because there is a sizeable budget … You sort of make my point for me: because there is a sizeable budget available, the more expensive solutions are (incorrectly) deemed to be superior. Had the budget been tighter it would have been necessary to implement better, smarter solutions. Throwing money at problems just leads to lazy/poor solutions. That is what New Labour did around the turn of the millennium, and now every Government of the day is a hotage to that level of inefficient spending.




    The Labour government had to throw money as you put it at the NHS because waiting times were totally unacceptable making patients conditions more serious and difficult and expensive to treat and people were needlessly dying. That's not good for the economy either.

    The problem is that their computer systems and everything else have been neglected for the last 7 years and money diverted to and wasted on the ill conceived top down reform.

    Edited by: "melted" 17th May

    3guesses

    You sort of make my point for me: because there is a sizeable budget … You sort of make my point for me: because there is a sizeable budget available, the more expensive solutions are (incorrectly) deemed to be superior. Had the budget been tighter it would have been necessary to implement better, smarter solutions. Throwing money at problems just leads to lazy/poor solutions. That is what New Labour did around the turn of the millennium, and now every Government of the day is a hotage to that level of inefficient spending.“Easy money makes a wild town.” -- C.B. Glasscock (The War of the Copper Kings)(BTW yes I know what Linux is - my understanding is that it is better supported on PCs than regular Unixes, but this is not my field of expertise.)



    Its not lazy its just selfish its all about preferential treatment to some fat cats and the offers of incentives such as holiday vouchers for signing up a set number of windows licences​ means no one on the ground, none of the hired experts having any inclination to challenge it.

    melted

    The Labour government had to throw money as you put it at the NHS because … The Labour government had to throw money as you put it at the NHS because waiting times were totally unacceptable making patients conditions more serious and difficult and expensive to treat and people were needlessly dying. That's not good for the economy either.The problem is that their computer systems and everything else have been neglected for the last 7 years and money diverted to and wasted on the ill conceived top down reform.



    Rubbish neglected has nothing to do with it, there's been servers running perfectly happily without a hitch for over 30 years in some instances, the idea that things need upgrading all the time is a fallacy to make money out of people, a well run efficient system doesn't need to be state of the art or superpowered infact with each leep in power comes a complete waste of it in the form of style over substance GUIs and more unnecessary junk. The biggest threat to any system is external, it doesn't even need to be hacked but the constant piling on of new unnecessary software and trying to stretch a system to be a jack of all trades and master of none. We have a nasty habbit now of not bothering to train people for the computer systems they are using and instead giving them more "user friendly" i.e home PC like systems that simply were never designed for the job.

    I dare say a old scsi bunch of computers running unix devoted solely to holding patients records would be ten times more efficient then the hodgepodge of computers the NHS has all connected to each other and seemingly all on the internet as well.

    Unix was invented for things like the NHS, it has the flexibility to be used to create customised O.S for anything, and will run forever without a hitch providing the hardware doesn't fail and its protected from outside interference, unlike some other OS that will stuff​ themselves every so often no matter what as they are badly written and have a lousy self destructive filing and partitioning system.
    Edited by: "Error440" 17th May
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