Furloughing/sick pay

23
Posted 18th Apr
My Dad has been told by his doctor to take off 12 weeks from work as he's deemed a high risk patient. Doc surgery isn't providing a sick note, but a letter template that they ask us to fill in and send directly to his employer. His employer is stating that they cannot furlough my dad as it doesn't apply to him and that he'll need to take 12 weeks off as sick on sick pay. I'm not sure if this is right so just double checking, have they given my Dad the correct info?

Thanks in advance.
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Littlemunckin18/04/2020 21:10

Absolutely! It's Saturday night & i'm currently working ridiculous hours …Absolutely! It's Saturday night & i'm currently working ridiculous hours trying to make sure a few hundred furloughed staff are actually paid. I'm shattered so apologies for not correctly phrasing my response...



Totally agree. It is 90% people earning £9-£10 per hour that are supporting all this stuff. Whilst we have the £30k earners sitting back at home trying book as many supermarket delivery slots as possible & making use of amazon buying stuff they really do not need.
Littlemunckin18/04/2020 20:34

Yes he's entitled to furlough as a shielding patient. Employers aren't …Yes he's entitled to furlough as a shielding patient. Employers aren't particularly confident with furlough at the moment but HMRC confirms it on their website. I hope that helps!


Employer decision to furlough or not. From gov dot uk PAYE info page dated 17 April 2020:
"Employers are also entitled to furlough employees who are being shielded or off on long-term sick leave. It is up to employers to decide whether to furlough these employees."
gov.uk/gui…eme
23 Comments
Yes he's entitled to furlough as a shielding patient. Employers aren't particularly confident with furlough at the moment but HMRC confirms it on their website. I hope that helps!
Littlemunckin18/04/2020 20:34

Yes he's entitled to furlough as a shielding patient. Employers aren't …Yes he's entitled to furlough as a shielding patient. Employers aren't particularly confident with furlough at the moment but HMRC confirms it on their website. I hope that helps!


Employer decision to furlough or not. From gov dot uk PAYE info page dated 17 April 2020:
"Employers are also entitled to furlough employees who are being shielded or off on long-term sick leave. It is up to employers to decide whether to furlough these employees."
gov.uk/gui…eme
Silly employer. Furloughing staff costs them no money at all other than the upfront costs that are rebated by the Government.
Littlemunckin18/04/2020 20:34

Yes he's entitled to furlough as a shielding patient. Employers aren't …Yes he's entitled to furlough as a shielding patient. Employers aren't particularly confident with furlough at the moment but HMRC confirms it on their website. I hope that helps!


Sadly incorrect, It's up to his employer if they want to furlough him or not. As above, His employer are rather silly, They can easily claim it back.
Edited by: ".MUFC." 18th Apr
.MUFC.18/04/2020 20:52

Sadly incorrect, It's up to his employer if they want to furlough him or …Sadly incorrect, It's up to his employer if they want to furlough him or not. As above, His employer are rather silly, They can easily claim it back.


As i said, he is "entitled" to furlough. Employers who don't when there are genuine reasons are being downright cruel as far as i'm concerned
Queue dull debate of difference between application of "entitled" and "eligible".
AndyRoyd18/04/2020 21:03

Queue dull debate of difference between application of "entitled" and …Queue dull debate of difference between application of "entitled" and "eligible".


Absolutely! It's Saturday night & i'm currently working ridiculous hours trying to make sure a few hundred furloughed staff are actually paid. I'm shattered so apologies for not correctly phrasing my response...
Littlemunckin18/04/2020 20:58

As i said, he is "entitled" to furlough. Employers who don't when there …As i said, he is "entitled" to furlough. Employers who don't when there are genuine reasons are being downright cruel as far as i'm concerned


But he might be financially better off on sick pay.

If I were furloughed I would only receive 80% of my wages. If I were off sick I would receive 100% of my wages (now the first 4 days are included).

But from an employers point of view. They may reopen their business in 3 weeks time and furloughed workers will be expected to return to work and government support will be stopped. The OPs dad wouldn't be able to return to work so would have to be put on sick leave anyway.
The company are probably just sticking to their normal contracts of employment. So if you are not available for work due to sickness then sick pay rules apply.
If that is morally the right thing to do is another matter.
Littlemunckin18/04/2020 21:10

Absolutely! It's Saturday night & i'm currently working ridiculous hours …Absolutely! It's Saturday night & i'm currently working ridiculous hours trying to make sure a few hundred furloughed staff are actually paid. I'm shattered so apologies for not correctly phrasing my response...


Which kinda indicates it would be more productive to not spend any time on a deal site, but your efforts and opinion are still respected.
GAVINLEWISHUKD18/04/2020 21:11

But he might be financially better off on sick pay.If I were furloughed I …But he might be financially better off on sick pay.If I were furloughed I would only receive 80% of my wages. If I were off sick I would receive 100% of my wages (now the first 4 days are included).But from an employers point of view. They may reopen their business in 3 weeks time and furloughed workers will be expected to return to work and government support will be stopped. The OPs dad wouldn't be able to return to work so would have to be put on sick leave anyway.The company are probably just sticking to their normal contracts of employment. So if you are not available for work due to sickness then sick pay rules apply. If that is morally the right thing to do is another matter.


Apparently an employer can choose to furlough rather than ssp (if enhanced company sick pay isn't paid)
AndyRoyd18/04/2020 21:13

Which kinda indicates it would be more productive to not spend any time on …Which kinda indicates it would be more productive to not spend any time on a deal site, but your efforts and opinion are still respected.


I'm taking a break but cheers for your concern.
Littlemunckin18/04/2020 21:10

Absolutely! It's Saturday night & i'm currently working ridiculous hours …Absolutely! It's Saturday night & i'm currently working ridiculous hours trying to make sure a few hundred furloughed staff are actually paid. I'm shattered so apologies for not correctly phrasing my response...



Totally agree. It is 90% people earning £9-£10 per hour that are supporting all this stuff. Whilst we have the £30k earners sitting back at home trying book as many supermarket delivery slots as possible & making use of amazon buying stuff they really do not need.
Willy_Wonka18/04/2020 21:15

Totally agree. It is 90% people earning £9-£10 per hour that are s …Totally agree. It is 90% people earning £9-£10 per hour that are supporting all this stuff. Whilst we have the £30k earners sitting back at home trying book as many supermarket delivery slots as possible & making use of amazon buying stuff they really do not need.


I'm trying not to complain as i'm in a very fortunate position to still be working & it not being the frontline, but there is no thought for the "behind the scenes" work. The work required to get this scheme up & running is atrocious & i still have my own young family to care for!
Littlemunckin18/04/2020 21:22

I'm trying not to complain as i'm in a very fortunate position to still be …I'm trying not to complain as i'm in a very fortunate position to still be working & it not being the frontline, but there is no thought for the "behind the scenes" work. The work required to get this scheme up & running is atrocious & i still have my own young family to care for!



Well, it is true. Most of the people that are working are the least who can afford to stop working. Whilst we have all of the media complaining about the situation they are in. It is disgraceful.
Littlemunckin18/04/2020 20:34

Yes he's entitled to furlough as a shielding patient. Employers aren't …Yes he's entitled to furlough as a shielding patient. Employers aren't particularly confident with furlough at the moment but HMRC confirms it on their website. I hope that helps!


employers DO NOT need to furlough staff, it is up to the employer to do it if they want
dovidrose2419/04/2020 01:52

employers DO NOT need to furlough staff, it is up to the employer to do it …employers DO NOT need to furlough staff, it is up to the employer to do it if they want


& as i already said to someone else, i specifically stated they are entitled to be furloughed
Littlemunckin19/04/2020 02:02

& as i already said to someone else, i specifically stated they are …& as i already said to someone else, i specifically stated they are entitled to be furloughed


Furlough was about saving jobs so firms don’t go bust, it’s going to cost us all in the long run, self isolation even tho recommend would come under ssp as it’s health reason. You are using the wrong word entitled you mean eligible if the employer wants to go down that route.

So what your working a Saturday night, I’m lucky to get one day off every 2 weeks at the moment, that’s because 15% of staff are abusing the ssp and not turning up, using self isolation as an excuse not to deal with residents who are confirmed with the virus..
Willy_Wonka18/04/2020 21:15

Totally agree. It is 90% people earning £9-£10 per hour that are s …Totally agree. It is 90% people earning £9-£10 per hour that are supporting all this stuff. Whilst we have the £30k earners sitting back at home trying book as many supermarket delivery slots as possible & making use of amazon buying stuff they really do not need.


Not our fault you didn’t listen in school
Bargainhead19/04/2020 05:11

Furlough was about saving jobs so firms don’t go bust, it’s going to cost u …Furlough was about saving jobs so firms don’t go bust, it’s going to cost us all in the long run, self isolation even tho recommend would come under ssp as it’s health reason. You are using the wrong word entitled you mean eligible if the employer wants to go down that route. So what your working a Saturday night, I’m lucky to get one day off every 2 weeks at the moment, that’s because 15% of staff are abusing the ssp and not turning up, using self isolation as an excuse not to deal with residents who are confirmed with the virus..


Entitlement: the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment

So no, you're wrong but don't let facts get in the way eh?

& i can't remember what a day off is but as i said, i'm trying not to complain as i'm lucky to still be in a job.

The SSP / furlough that i quoted is direct from HMRC. I never said it was right, however it is an allowable option.
Littlemunckin19/04/2020 09:15

Entitlement: the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or …Entitlement: the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatmentSo no, you're wrong but don't let facts get in the way eh?& i can't remember what a day off is but as i said, i'm trying not to complain as i'm lucky to still be in a job. The SSP / furlough that i quoted is direct from HMRC. I never said it was right, however it is an allowable option.


An option as you stated so not guaranteed...

I just hope when this is all over and the money needs paying back they don’t expect frontline staff and others who have carried on working and paying tax to cover the ones sat at home on 80% and ssp, but we will...
Bargainhead19/04/2020 09:45

An option as you stated so not guaranteed...I just hope when this is all …An option as you stated so not guaranteed...I just hope when this is all over and the money needs paying back they don’t expect frontline staff and others who have carried on working and paying tax to cover the ones sat at home on 80% and ssp, but we will...


I hope not either. The multi nationals who have effectively been bailed out with furlough, despite having billionaire owners, should pay the lion's share of increased taxes, although we all know that won't happen
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