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    Gordon Brown and Lockerbie

    Interesting that Gordon Brown did not want the Lockerbie bomber to die in jail, whilst his own Justice Minister ( and therefore presumably Gordon himself) was quite prepared to see Ronnie Biggs suffer that fate. Seems it's OK if you are convicted of murdering hundreds, but if you dare commit a train robbery and subsequently escape to Brazil whilst sticking 2 fingers up at the police & the establishment....well thats just totally unforgiveable isn't it!!! What a bunch of...well you know what they are as well as I do.

    39 Comments

    So if your loved one was rotting in a Libyan prison and returning the lockerbie bomber in exchange......you telling me you wouldnt want that and that you would leave your loved one to rot? :?

    Original Poster

    You miss my point. I'm not passing judgement on the decision to send him back to Libya. I'm taking issue with the glaring double standards involved when comparing the overall seriousness of the 2 crimes. What the hell has exchange of prisoners got to do with anything anyway??

    melanie789;6182046

    You miss my point. I'm not passing judgement on the decision to send him … You miss my point. I'm not passing judgement on the decision to send him back to Libya. I'm taking issue with the glaring double standards involved when comparing the overall seriousness of the 2 crimes. What the hell has exchange of prisoners got to do with anything anyway??



    You cant compare the overall seriousness as they are both entirely different crimes and circumstances surrounding them.....

    The recent prisoner exchange agreement between the UK and Libya that was signed? and the fact that the Lockerbie Bomber was central to being included in that agreement?

    Please, no offence, but if you want some serious debate rather than lowering the tone to antagonism, at least do some research first rather than trying to focus on some abstract point of view

    StevenA2000_uk;6182070

    You cant compare the overall seriousness as they are both entirely … You cant compare the overall seriousness as they are both entirely different crimes and circumstances surrounding them.....The recent prisoner exchange agreement between the UK and Libya that was signed? and the fact that the Lockerbie Bomber was central to being included in that agreement?Please, no offence, but if you want some serious debate rather than lowering the tone to antagonism, at least do some research first rather than trying to focus on some abstract point of view



    Wasn't that to due with oil? (not that I believe in it all)

    StevenA2000_uk;6182070

    You cant compare the overall seriousness as they are both entirely … You cant compare the overall seriousness as they are both entirely different crimes and circumstances surrounding them.....The recent prisoner exchange agreement between the UK and Libya that was signed? and the fact that the Lockerbie Bomber was central to being included in that agreement?Please, no offence, but if you want some serious debate rather than lowering the tone to antagonism, at least do some research first rather than trying to focus on some abstract point of view



    you do know that the prisoner transfer agreement wasn't why he was sent home?

    In fact this was rejected by kenny mccaskill and he was sent home not as part of any exchange but on compassionate grounds so I don't think your initial point of what happensd when your relative gets released from a lybian jail bears any relevance to the op's point.

    Met-Cast;6182090

    Wasn't that to due with oil? (not that I believe in it all)



    scotland have enough oil was nothing to do with oil

    tho i do agree that he shouldnt have been released he shoulda died in jail

    From what I've heard he was innocent anyway and his appeal of the conviction may have opened yet another can of worms for this pathetic government so they were more than happy to get rid of him.

    ps kenny mccaskill should be sacked over this hs comments "even tho he showed NO remmorse over the killing of hundreds" we have to show compassion for a dying man



    bullchit

    mittu1;6182168

    From what I've heard he was innocent anyway and his appeal of the … From what I've heard he was innocent anyway and his appeal of the conviction may have opened yet another can of worms for this pathetic government so they more than happy to get rid of him.



    aggree the appeal would have cost millions but woulda stll resulted in inital verdict

    jamstaruk1972;6182175

    ps kenny mccaskill should be sacked over this hs comments "even tho he … ps kenny mccaskill should be sacked over this hs comments "even tho he showed NO remmorse over the killing of hundreds" we have to show compassion for a dying man bullchit



    to be honest though mccaskill didn't have much option but to release him, he was just following what he was bound by scots law to do.

    jamstaruk1972;6182143

    scotland have enough oil was nothing to do with oiltho i do agree that he … scotland have enough oil was nothing to do with oiltho i do agree that he shouldnt have been released he shoulda died in jail



    What was the sunday times all about?

    Original Poster

    Ronnie Biggs was involved in the biggest robbery of the era, and may, or may not have contributed to the death of the train driver who died several years afterwards. Al-Megrahi was convicted of murdering hundreds at Lockerbie, although whether he actually did it is still open to question. I assume that if it had been up to the English Justice Minister, Al-Magrahi would still have been sent home, so why were they so reluctant to release Biggs until public opinion forced their hand?? It stinks, and it stinks even more if trade agreements are at the bottom of it.

    well it was the scotish parliament (government ) who had the last word dont try and pass the buck onto gordon brown it was a mistake made by the snp and as a crewe lad I would have left biggs in jail, the driver was a crewe man if you didnt know.

    ants97;6182188

    to be honest though mccaskill didn't have much option but to release him, … to be honest though mccaskill didn't have much option but to release him, he was just following what he was bound by scots law to do.



    wasnt bound to do so just had to consider it

    he had the cheek to say that a power higher than anyone (god ) had decided his fate that he would die and so we scots should send him home to die srry dont agree


    more americans suffered than any other country and they should have decided his fate

    and he wouldnt be goig home to die

    melanie789;6182218

    Ronnie Biggs was involved in the biggest robbery of the era, and may, or … Ronnie Biggs was involved in the biggest robbery of the era, and may, or may not have contributed to the death of the train driver who died several years afterwards. Al-Megrahi was convicted of murdering hundreds at Lockerbie, although whether he actually did it is still open to question. I assume that if it had been up to the English Justice Minister, Al-Magrahi would still have been sent home, so why were they so reluctant to release Biggs until public opinion forced their hand?? It stinks, and it stinks even more if trade agreements are at the bottom of it.



    Two different justice systems,

    smp;6182274

    well it was the scotish parliament (government ) who had the last word … well it was the scotish parliament (government ) who had the last word dont try and pass the buck onto gordon brown it was a mistake made by the snp and as a crewe lad I would have left biggs in jail, the driver was a crewe man if you didnt know.



    it wasn't a mistake by the snp, whoever was the justice minister would have been bound by scots law to release him as he apparently met all the criteria that let him be freed on compassionate grounds.

    ants97;6182304

    it wasn't a mistake by the snp, whoever was the justice minister would … it wasn't a mistake by the snp, whoever was the justice minister would have been bound by scots law to release him as he apparently met all the criteria that let him be freed on compassionate grounds.



    Then why did he say it was his decision, He must have had the right to decide one way or the other or there would have been no need for a decision,

    Met-Cast;6182090

    Wasn't that to due with oil? (not that I believe in it all)

    #
    doubtful but wouldnt exclude it as a factor.....

    ants97;6182134

    you do know that the prisoner transfer agreement wasn't why he was sent … you do know that the prisoner transfer agreement wasn't why he was sent home? In fact this was rejected by kenny mccaskill and he was sent home not as part of any exchange but on compassionate grounds so I don't think your initial point of what happensd when your relative gets released from a lybian jail bears any relevance to the op's point.


    Yeah officially thats the story.....but if UK citizens in Libyan jails could be brought home then I'd defo be using him as a bargaining chip......he hasnt got long to live so if I could save any British people then I would......not only does it save UK lives, it also saves the UK tax payer from keeping him in a comfortable cell........if I could get any trade as well then I would......

    tonyg1962;6182315

    Then why did he say it was his decision, He must have had the right to … Then why did he say it was his decision, He must have had the right to decide one way or the other or there would have been no need for a decision,



    he still had to follow the principles of scots law, which he did and as such came to the conclusion he had to be released. I'm convinced anyone in his position that followed the correct procedures and guidelines would have came to the same decision.

    ants97;6182368

    he still had to follow the principles of scots law, which he did and as … he still had to follow the principles of scots law, which he did and as such came to the conclusion he had to be released. I'm convinced anyone in his position that followed the correct procedures and guidelines would have came to the same decision.



    But he didnt say he had no choice,He said it was his decision and his decision alone, so he did have a choice,

    bossyboots;6182381

    Jamstaruk I am also from Glasgow and have read LOADS on this … Jamstaruk I am also from Glasgow and have read LOADS on this subject.......................... There was a lot of talk that if this **** was allowed to die in prison then Scotland and more so Glasgow would have been a target for major terrorist attacks.....................If this **** had of died in his cushy prison cell then ..........he would have been sent home a dead martyr and glasgow/scotland would be targeted for major terrorist attacks................I feel McAskill done THE RIGHT THING in sendin him back. we have got to look AT THE BIGGER PICTURE.



    Wait until Al-Megrahi is given a martyrs funeral and every terorrist knows that even if they get caught at least they will be sent home to a heroic farewell,This may have opened the floodgates,

    bossyboots;6182401

    that is such A RIDICULOUS thing to say. It so obviously wasnt HIS … that is such A RIDICULOUS thing to say. It so obviously wasnt HIS PERSONAL DECISION to send him back ffs.



    His words not mine.

    Kenny MacAskill said today that the release of the Lockerbie bomber "was my decision and my decision alone,"

    bossyboots;6182446

    BASED ON WHAT IS THE BEST THING ALL … BASED ON WHAT IS THE BEST THING ALL ROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the consequences of him dying in that jail here would have been horrendous for Scotland and the UK



    Yes but it was still his desicion no one elses,I am not saying he was right or wrong simply stating the fact that he made the decision,

    tonyg1962;6182386

    But he didnt say he had no choice,He said it was his decision and his … But he didnt say he had no choice,He said it was his decision and his decision alone, so he did have a choice,



    I didn't say he never had a choice but anyone that followed the same guidelines and procedures that he had to as bound by scots law I feel would have came to the very same conclusion.

    bossyboots;6182381

    Jamstaruk I am also from Glasgow and have read LOADS on this … Jamstaruk I am also from Glasgow and have read LOADS on this subject.......................... There was a lot of talk that if this **** was allowed to die in prison then Scotland and more so Glasgow would have been a target for major terrorist attacks.....................If this **** had of died in his cushy prison cell then ..........he would have been sent home a dead martyr and glasgow/scotland would be targeted for major terrorist attacks................I feel McAskill done THE RIGHT THING in sendin him back. we have got to look AT THE BIGGER PICTURE.



    load of chit you never give in to blackmail if this was the case attacks would have already have happened

    tonyg1962;6182386

    But he didnt say he had no choice,He said it was his decision and his … But he didnt say he had no choice,He said it was his decision and his decision alone, so he did have a choice,



    +1 tho he did say i higher power than him had decided the bombers punishment by making him terminally ill

    bossyboots;6182620

    Nothing was going to happen to this country as long as He was still here. … Nothing was going to happen to this country as long as He was still here. Do you know of anything to the contrary???



    actually are there no other people from libya in scotland???????? so they wouldnt attack scotland while he was here ??

    i seen the house in newton mearns where hs family stayed in (at our expense i might add) his family shouldnt have even been allowed in this country imo

    only contact should have been occassional phone call

    who paid for the police to protect it ???it wasnt

    your average cop drives down road once a week ,y should his wife just have occassional phone call ??????????


    because he was found guilty of the bombing end off

    Banned

    Met-Cast;6182090

    Wasn't that to due with oil? (not that I believe in it all)



    Basically, yes.

    bossyboots;6182787

    But if your complaining of the cost of police to protect his wifes … But if your complaining of the cost of police to protect his wifes home.........THEN WHY ARE YOU NOT COMPLAINING OF COST TO US OF KEEPING HIM IN THAT PRISON???????????????????????? you dont seem to have a proper balance here in your argument!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    i was complaining about ALL the costs to keep him in SCOTLAND including PRISON

    i personally would rather see all people convicted of murder given the death sentance

    To take just one stat "£40,000: THE average annual cost of keeping a prisoner in jail" - thats nearly one and a half times the average UK salary, and who picks up the bill? People like you and me.


    you can times that cost by at least x10 for keeping him in prison

    bossyboots;6182846

    I hear what you are saying, but sometimes money and costs are irrelevant … I hear what you are saying, but sometimes money and costs are irrelevant when it comes to what could have happened if he was kept here to die. Thankfully we will never ever find that out. Politics is a biggie for dividing people and their opinions and we have to respect each others - though sometimes that is difficult!!!!Lets agree to disagree and also lets be thankful that we do have that privilege! Am off to bed now and so goodnight to everyone!



    no honest people could agree with your comments

    so lets not stick up to bullies,terrorists,and criminals INCASE they come back and get you???


    suppose saves us having armed forces and police

    i also have to point out that the glasgow airport attack would PROBABLY never have happened had the pm not have been scottish

    bossyboots;6182914

    suppose the terrorist attacks that happened the same week in London … suppose the terrorist attacks that happened the same week in London wouldnt have happened if the Queen werent erm...English????



    you're making the scottish sound like a bunch of cowards

    Banned

    jamstaruk1972;6182828

    i was complaining about ALL the costs to keep him in SCOTLAND including … i was complaining about ALL the costs to keep him in SCOTLAND including PRISONi personally would rather see all people convicted of murder given the death sentance To take just one stat "£40,000: THE average annual cost of keeping a prisoner in jail" - thats nearly one and a half times the average UK salary, and who picks up the bill? People like you and me.you can times that cost by at least x10 for keeping him in prison



    It costs more to execute someone than it does to keep them in prison for the rest of their lives.

    As for the cost. it doesn't actually cost the taxpayer that much for each prisoner as such as most of the £40k goes on staffing, security, repairs etc. If 100 prisoners were executed the prisons wouldn't spend £4 million less as there would still be other prisoners requiring staff and security.

    Banned

    bossyboots;6182516

    And I was so sick of the constant Oh Gordon Brown is making no comment on … And I was so sick of the constant Oh Gordon Brown is making no comment on the release of this prisoner....................well Scotland voted for independence..........thats what we got.................we werent looking for any comment from him................The right decision was made. I live a 15 min drive from where this monster was caged and god forbid the consequences if an announcement had of been made that he had died whilst still in that jail................scotland would have suffered big time



    Can't remember the last time I saw paranoia like this:?

    http://socialwhisper.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/the-end1.jpg

    FilthAndFurry;6183447

    Can't remember the last time I saw paranoia like this:?



    could it be around the millenium?

    Banned

    jasonrat;6183611

    could it be around the millenium?



    http://frmarkdwhite.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/y2k.jpg
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