Govt losses Article 50 challenge

207 replies
Found 24th Jan
surprise surprise

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Original Poster

I shall be making sure my local MP acts in accordance to the referendum results from his own constituents. I hope you all do as well.

A lot of Remain MPs will be losing their seats for sure if they fail to obey their constituents wishes.

But will probably comfortably wins an amendment to trigger Article 50 very soon.

And the financial markets start to fall again.

FFS, how many more billions will this cost us?

Should have been done day after vote. Now we have the left wing millionaires telling us we should remain because the millions that have come here contribute soooo much.

So what happens if we have negotiated the best deal possible but the MPs vote against accepting it? As I understand it once article 50 is triggered 2 years later we are out even if the deals have not been agreed.

What's amazing is that the UK government was arguing against a very basic point in our constitution.

Theresa May was in essence trying to bypass the British parliament which is rather terrifying.

As for the vote, it would be nice to have a proper debate drawing on expert analysis and testimony to decide what is best for the UK but it now seems as though the country is too split for that. The economic wellbeing of this nation isn't the top priority for everyone. For some immigration is.

Those two notions are too disparate to live together.

Trump does more in 1 hour as president then UK gov. manages in 6 months!

Brexit means Brexit, but only if MPs vote for it! Most people changes there minds anyway so I doubt a majority of those who voted or of the electorate actually want to pursue Brexit anyway!

What message will get through? How people feel now or the advisory of referendum 6+ months ago!?

Edited by: "groenleader" 24th Jan

Democracy eh?
I don't like the result of the democratic referendum so I'll 'thkeam and thkeam' till I'm sick or get my own way.
Pah!

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

What's amazing is that the UK government was arguing against a very basic … What's amazing is that the UK government was arguing against a very basic point in our constitution. Theresa May was in essence trying to bypass the British parliament which is rather terrifying. As for the vote, it would be nice to have a proper debate drawing on expert analysis and testimony to decide what is best for the UK but it now seems as though the country is too split for that. The economic wellbeing of this nation isn't the top priority for everyone. For some immigration is.Those two notions are too disparate to live together.



The people made their will known, MPs have nothing to do with it. WE HAVE SPOKEN and we will be obeyed if they wish to keep their very gold plated salary/pension and expenses.

"But the court ruled the Scottish Parliament and Welsh and Northern Ireland assemblies did not need a say"

SidSnot

Democracy eh? I don't like the result of the democratic referendum so … Democracy eh? I don't like the result of the democratic referendum so I'll 'thkeam and thkeam' till I'm sick or get my own way.Pah!



You live in a representative democracy. Decisions are made in Parliament. That's all this decision states, and it's blindingly obvious.

Graham1979

The people made their will known, MPs have nothing to do with it. WE HAVE … The people made their will known, MPs have nothing to do with it. WE HAVE SPOKEN and we will be obeyed if they wish to keep their very gold plated salary/pension and expenses.



Graham, nobody is going to feel threatened by your rhetoric. MPs have everything to do with the British constitution.

What's odd is how little about the country you live in that people like you understand. It's quite funny actually.

stuarthanley

"But the court ruled the Scottish Parliament and Welsh and Northern … "But the court ruled the Scottish Parliament and Welsh and Northern Ireland assemblies did not need a say"



Why would they! They have MPs in London, they don't need extra votes or special consideration anymore then any other person! I cant believe that nationalistic Scots women!

And here's me thinking we vote our MP's in to do the public's bidding, not pick and choose what they do depending on their own views.

Who reckons Lab. will follow Corbyns advice to vote with the government and not stand in the way of triggering Article 50?!

They could keep us in AND get rid of Corbyn!

SidSnot

And here's me thinking we vote our MP's in to do the public's bidding, … And here's me thinking we vote our MP's in to do the public's bidding, not pick and choose what they do depending on their own views.


You vote them in to use there discretion as they see fit!

SidSnot

And here's me thinking we vote our MP's in to do the public's bidding, … And here's me thinking we vote our MP's in to do the public's bidding, not pick and choose what they do depending on their own views.



That's a longstanding debate. Do you vote for person simply to communicate your will to parliament (which is further muddied by the fact that an MP could have a small majority in their constituency) or are you electing a person who balances the will of their constituents alongside their own judgment?

Ultimately what you want may not be in your constituency's best interests.

Lib dems already saying they want a referendum on the final deal or they will not vote to support Article 50! Its ransom time!

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

What type of 'man' uses that to attack someone? Utterly disgraceful … What type of 'man' uses that to attack someone? Utterly disgraceful comment.



​what kind of a man spends all his days on a shopping forum having a terrible attitude to others, baits and reports at every opportunity, with a very closed mind to anyone with differing views to his own?

groenleader

Lib dems already saying they want a referendum on the final deal or they … Lib dems already saying they want a referendum on the final deal or they will not vote to support Article 50! Its ransom time!



It really doesn't matter what the Lib Dems want, but don't you want the parliament of the UK to vote on any final deal or is it more important for you to leave the EU and the final deal is of no importance?

groenleader

Lib dems already saying they want a referendum on the final deal or they … Lib dems already saying they want a referendum on the final deal or they will not vote to support Article 50! Its ransom time!


Lib dems are a spent force and can be completely ignored.

123thisisme

Lib dems are a spent force and can be completely ignored.



Not if labour defect, rogue tories, nationalists from NI, Scot and Wales etc. its all to play for, start the chaos engine!

At the end of the day the Govt. will win as they have a majority. Even if some Tory MP's vote against that won't outweigh the number of opposition MP's that will vote in favour. So it all ends up becoming a paper exercise costing millions of taxpayers pounds to demonstrate whatever this weeks version of democracy is.

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

What's amazing is that the UK government was arguing against a very basic … What's amazing is that the UK government was arguing against a very basic point in our constitution. Theresa May was in essence trying to bypass the British parliament which is rather terrifying. As for the vote, it would be nice to have a proper debate drawing on expert analysis and testimony to decide what is best for the UK but it now seems as though the country is too split for that. The economic wellbeing of this nation isn't the top priority for everyone. For some immigration is.Those two notions are too disparate to live together.



I just see her trying to implement what the country has voted on and agreed is the way forward. The decision has already been made, so why do OUR MPs need to vote again? I personally wished to remain. But given the people have spoken, I see no reason for any more voting or delaying. Trigger article 50 like the country has decided. Trust government to negotiate a Brexit deal. Move on. All this uncertainty is what will cripple the economy more than actually cracking on with leaving.

groenleader

Not if labour defect, rogue tories, nationalists from NI, Scot and Wales … Not if labour defect, rogue tories, nationalists from NI, Scot and Wales etc. its all to play for, start the chaos engine!


That's a very big IF.

BagABargain78

[I just see her trying to implement what the country has voted on and … [I just see her trying to implement what the country has voted on and agreed is the way forward. The decision has already been made, so why do OUR MPs need to vote again? I personally wished to remain. But given the people have spoken, I see no reason for any more voting or delaying. Trigger article 50 like the country has decided. Trust government to negotiate a Brexit deal. Move on. All this uncertainty is what will cripple the economy more than actually cracking on with leaving.

Basically its the law, which the supreme court has just clarified. For me as a leave voter I would rather have brexit done lawfully.

End of March is still the deadline.

All this does is goad Remainers into believing they have any hope of retaining Freedom of Movement. It will never happen.

This simply stirs the hornets nest and adds salt into an open wound.

If civil unrest comes about, due to the disappointment inflicted upon Remainers when finally realising it doesn't change a thing, then this judgement is entirely to blame.

BagABargain78

I just see her trying to implement what the country has voted on and … I just see her trying to implement what the country has voted on and agreed is the way forward. The decision has already been made, so why do OUR MPs need to vote again? I personally wished to remain. But given the people have spoken, I see no reason for any more voting or delaying. Trigger article 50 like the country has decided. Trust government to negotiate a Brexit deal. Move on. All this uncertainty is what will cripple the economy more than actually cracking on with leaving.



Because this is the way democracy works in Britain. Not much more to say than that.

As for the uncertainty crippling the economy more than leaving would, than depends entirely on the deal we reach. What people need to realise is that it isn't mutually beneficial for both parties to reach a good deal. Actually there's a number of reasons for the EU to restrict access for financial markets and also deter other nations from leaving the EU.

A bad deal is a very likely possibility and Parliament should have a vote on the terms of it, but that's my opinion. My primary focus is on the economy, not immigration.

coathanger

If civil unrest comes about, due to the disappointment inflicted upon … If civil unrest comes about, due to the disappointment inflicted upon Remainers when finally realising it doesn't change a thing, then this judgement is entirely to blame.

LOL, remainers /civil unrest, haha.

coathanger

End of March is still the deadline.All this does is goad Remainers into … End of March is still the deadline.All this does is goad Remainers into believing they have any hope of retaining Freedom of Movement. It will never happen.This simply stirs the hornets nest and adds salt into an open wound. If civil unrest comes about, due to the disappointment inflicted upon Remainers when finally realising it doesn't change a thing, then this judgement is entirely to blame.



Firstly, civil unrest ain't gonna happen. If people like you could actually do something, you'd have started closer to home.

Secondly, freedom of movement isn't something all remain voters cling to. Can I be honest? I would like more restrictions on free movement. But I accept that it's good for the economy, it's been good for me and it's the price we pay for the economic benefits.

It's people like you who place free movement above the economy that I don't quite get. The economy is the single most important issue for me, yet you bang on and on about immigration. Why?

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

A bad deal is a very likely possibility and Parliament should have a vote … A bad deal is a very likely possibility and Parliament should have a vote on the terms of it, but that's my opinion. My primary focus is on the economy, not immigration.

I don't think we will get a bad deal although we wont get the best deal. Stands to reason really, the EU are so blinkered that they will put politics before economics, but that's why we should leave.

coathanger

End of March is still the deadline.All this does is goad Remainers into … End of March is still the deadline.All this does is goad Remainers into believing they have any hope of retaining Freedom of Movement. It will never happen.This simply stirs the hornets nest and adds salt into an open wound. If civil unrest comes about, due to the disappointment inflicted upon Remainers when finally realising it doesn't change a thing, then this judgement is entirely to blame.



You ok hun? https://media.giphy.com/media/VByqFZHb1MauA/giphy.gif

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Graham, nobody is going to feel threatened by your rhetoric. MPs have … Graham, nobody is going to feel threatened by your rhetoric. MPs have everything to do with the British constitution.What's odd is how little about the country you live in that people like you understand. It's quite funny actually.



Really? Thanks for your opinion. We the people voted directly in this referendum, nothing more needs to be said, that is the truest form of democracy. Article 50 should have been done by Cameron before he scurried away.

I would love to be a fly on Sturgeon's (miss kranky) wall

We do not have to involve devolved governments

HotEnglishAndWelshDeals

Because this is the way democracy works in Britain. Not much more to say … Because this is the way democracy works in Britain. Not much more to say than that.As for the uncertainty crippling the economy more than leaving would, than depends entirely on the deal we reach. What people need to realise is that it isn't mutually beneficial for both parties to reach a good deal. Actually there's a number of reasons for the EU to restrict access for financial markets and also deter other nations from leaving the EU. A bad deal is a very likely possibility and Parliament should have a vote on the terms of it, but that's my opinion. My primary focus is on the economy, not immigration.



But what's to be gained by voting on each and every detail of the deal? It's not as though Teresa May has much in the way of choice. She's hardly going to actively negotiate a poor deal deliberately. We vote on a deal and say to her "not good enough. Go back and get a better deal". Then what? It's not really up to her! All that will happen is more and more uncertainty, and quite probably a worse brexit than could otherwise been negotiated. We vote a government in to govern. We should let them do just that and not micromanage this rather unique challenge. It's more damaging to do so. I agree with holding government to account in their day to day running. But this is a unique situation where the people directly have spoke. Their wishes should be implemented directly without having to consult with the MPs that the people have also voted in! Makes no sense.

Brilliant news, well done remainers for pushing for this. You have guaranteed a worse deal for Britain.

BagABargain78

But what's to be gained by voting on each and every detail of the deal? … But what's to be gained by voting on each and every detail of the deal? It's not as though Teresa May has much in the way of choice. She's hardly going to actively negotiate a poor deal deliberately. We vote on a deal and say to her "not good enough. Go back and get a better deal". Then what? It's not really up to her! All that will happen is more and more uncertainty, and quite probably a worse brexit than could otherwise been negotiated. We vote a government in to govern. We should let them do just that and not micromanage this rather unique challenge. It's more damaging to do so. I agree with holding government to account in their day to day running. But this is a unique situation where the people directly have spoke. Their wishes should be implemented directly without having to consult with the MPs that the people have also voted in! Makes no sense.



Actually today's decision makes perfect sense because it upholds some of the most basic (and quite frankly easily understandable) aspects of our democracy.

I don't think May will deliberately negotiate a bad deal either. I think her own incompetence and the incompetence of those around her will lead to one. People need to start realising that the EU has far more leverage in these talks and more reasons to give us a bad deal. If you start with that realisation then you realise that the chances of a good deal are slim and that we probably should allow parliament to vote on it.


Graham1979

Really? Thanks for your opinion. We the people voted directly in this … Really? Thanks for your opinion. We the people voted directly in this referendum, nothing more needs to be said, that is the truest form of democracy. Article 50 should have been done by Cameron before he scurried away.



It might be the truest form of democracy, but it's not the British form of democracy Graham. Very basic constitutional points being made here. X)

Asian woman makes a mockery of our democracy eh. If she loves the EU so much why not move there?
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