Found 24th Feb 2011
Hi, just typed up a Uni presentation on the response of the press to murder and violent crime in the late 19th century.

One question - when referring to the Press do I use a capital 'P' or a lower cased 'p'.

I am normally quite good with grammar but this one is doing my head in. Surely as it is a noun (name of a specific thing) then it should be a capital 'P'?

Thanks for any help.

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I would imagine it can be spelt either way - I myself would probably capitalise it, but since it is describing a collective group of nouns it infact does not need to be capitalised.
Edited by: "tomwatts" 24th Feb 2011

It will be much clearer and more sensible to have a capital letter to distinguish it from an ordinary noun or verb.

P for sure

Lower case, unless it is a newspaper called "The Press". Same for "Uni"

chesso

P for sure



Why? Its not a proper-noun...
Edited by: "jah128" 25th Feb 2011

Original Poster

I've had a look on some online articles and the results are mixed.

The essay title is:
Examine the response of the press to murder and violent crime in the late nineteenth century. To what extent were such crimes considered to threaten the stability of society? In what ways did the press exacerbate existing fears?

The term 'Press' is indeed lower cased so I shall follow that pattern. If the tutor picks up on it then I'll tell her that the module handbook must be wrong too :P

Cheers for your help guys.

Capital P as they are referred to as an entity.

jah128

Lower case, unless it is a newspaper called "The Press". Same for … Lower case, unless it is a newspaper called "The Press". Same for "Uni"Why? Its not a proper-noun...


Just have a look at the OPs first two sentences. Lower case p just looks and feels wrong doesn't it?

Meh. Not really, "Uni" feels more wrong to me, but I think it is probably one of those that is correct/incorrect either way depending on the marker's frame of mind. By the 'rules' of English its not really a proper-noun though, so probably should be lower case...

It might just be that I'm used to York, but if someone writes 'The Press' that refers to the newspaper as opposed to the collective...
Edited by: "jah128" 25th Feb 2011

Yes, 'uni' is the way to go. I wasn't thinking to opt for 'The Press' but 'the Press' to identify as a specific group.

Nope, still going to go for lowercase, 'the journalists', 'the papers' etc. Its not a proper-noun, although I'd concur it is one that sort of works either way...

As I said in #1

Sloth/Mod

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/7/15/0c0dfee9-7797-4e13-bfc8-d1fa31f42d19.jpg

Original Poster

Ignore the grammar in the opening sentence of the OP lol - that was rushed.

When referring to the press I mean the press in general not a specific paper, etc.
Going for lower case although I would have probably used upper case if I didn't realise how it was phrased in the essay title.

Cheers for the input guys - this does seem a tricky one lol

Well I just lost my latest reply but
en.wikipedia.org/wik…oun

I feel that in most sentences where the Press is the subject then it should be a proper noun, also where it is named e.g. the British Press.

Edited by: "chesso" 25th Feb 2011

maximoshark

http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0659250#m_en_gb0659250.024Lower case p according to the Oxford Dictionary.



I would be following the Oxford dictionary to be honest.

chesso

Well i just lost my latest but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_nounI … Well i just lost my latest but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_nounI feel that in most sentences where the Press is the subject then it should be a proper noun, also wher it is named e.g. the British Press.



Hmm. Still don't really agree its a proper-noun, but it does seem one where both are accepted with close to equal weighting. Searching Google Scholar for both 'the press' and 'the British press' seems to bring a fairly equal weighting of results for capitalised and un-capitalised 'Press' [discounting journal titles where small-caps for major words within the title is the preferred form].

I'd personally still stick to lower-case as I consider it a synonym for both journalists and newspapers, as opposed to a proper-noun collective, but I think its fair to say either form is generally acceptable!
Edited by: "jah128" 25th Feb 2011

jah128

Hmm. Still don't really agree its a proper-noun, but it does seem one … Hmm. Still don't really agree its a proper-noun, but it does seem one where both are accepted with close to equal weighting. Searching Google Scholar for both 'the press' and 'the British press' seems to bring a fairly equal weighting of results for capitalised and un-capitalised 'Press' [discounting journal titles where small-caps for major words within the title is the preferred form].I'd personally still stick to lower-case as I consider it a synonym for both journalists and newspapers, as opposed to a proper-noun collective, but I think its fair to say either form is generally acceptable!



I think that's about the long and short of it!

Original Poster

chesso

I think that's about the long and short of it!



Lower case 'p' would be the correct way of writing it. Same goes for "uni" - you don't even write 'university' with a capital unless referring to a particular one (e.g. University of Somewhere)

p.s. if the essay title uses lowercase, then that should say it all really
Edited by: "oldmanhouse" 25th Feb 2011

is it only me thats gor a headache after reading all that

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff69/KTQ_Sue/Stupid%20stuff/stress/stressreductionkit.jpg

I would say capital P as you are referring to a group of people, if that makes sense

nikkib123

I would say capital P as you are referring to a group of people, if that … I would say capital P as you are referring to a group of people, if that makes sense



It does, I referred to them as an entity, prob not the best word - but more of an organisation like the Police, the Government etc.

Banned

Collective noun therefore P

csiman

Collective noun therefore P



Really intrigued as to where this idea that collective nouns or groups of people are capitalised; I certainly was not taught that they were, and in general the Oxford Dictionary and sites such as the BBC seem to agree with my thoughts. You would generally use 'the police', 'the government' etc. An exception might be 'the Metropolitan Police' where the name is itself a proper noun, but when simply refering to a generic group, I don't see why it should be capitalised?

If you were referring to a group of builders you wouldn't say 'the Builders', so why would you capitalise police or press?
Edited by: "jah128" 25th Feb 2011

Original Poster

jah128

Really intrigued as to where this idea that collective nouns or groups of … Really intrigued as to where this idea that collective nouns or groups of people are capitalised; I certainly was not taught that they were, and in general the Oxford Dictionary and sites such as the BBC seem to agree with my thoughts. You would generally use 'the police', 'the government' etc. An exception might be 'the Metropolitan Police' where the name is itself a proper noun, but when simply refering to a generic group, I don't see why it should be capitalised?If you were referring to a group of builders you wouldn't say 'the Builders', so why would you capitalise police or press?



Looking into it even more you seem to be correct.

A proper noun or proper name is a noun representing a unique entity (such as London, Jupiter, John Hunter, or Toyota), as distinguished from a common noun, which describes a class of entities (such as city, planet, person or corporation)

Banned

jah128

Really intrigued as to where this idea that collective nouns or groups of … Really intrigued as to where this idea that collective nouns or groups of people are capitalised; I certainly was not taught that they were, and in general the Oxford Dictionary and sites such as the BBC seem to agree with my thoughts. You would generally use 'the police', 'the government' etc. An exception might be 'the Metropolitan Police' where the name is itself a proper noun, but when simply refering to a generic group, I don't see why it should be capitalised?If you were referring to a group of builders you wouldn't say 'the Builders', so why would you capitalise police or press?



OOOPS! I did mean a small 'p'

Banned

csiman

Collective noun therefore P



So if I'm referring to the people saying it should be a capital letter, do I call them 'Idiots' because that's a collective noun too?

Lower case. Ignore the 'helper'.

Banned

FilthAndFurry

So if I'm referring to the people saying it should be a capital letter, … So if I'm referring to the people saying it should be a capital letter, do I call them 'Idiots' because that's a collective noun too?Lower case. Ignore the 'helper'.


moral of this story is to read the whole thread to stop yourself looking rather foolish

irony galore at the 'helper' comment oO
Edited by: "csiman" 26th Feb 2011

Banned

If ever in doubt just refer to a source that you know will be correct. Google a sentence and refer to the quality essays, newspaper articles etc.


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