Hand Car Wash

60
Found 7th Sep 2017
I've noticed tons of these in several large cities and towns that I've visited in recent times.
What is common between all of them is that they are cheap (commonly £5 and as low as £3.50 at one); staffed by people of possibly non UK citizenship.

Makes me wonder if there is a minimum wage breach going on; dubious taxation; illegal workers; some/all of the above.

If any of that is true, how comes there are so many of these everywhere (at least in larger population centres anyway) - surely the local authorities would be taking an interest?

Don't get me wrong, I fully take advantage of the low pricing, but there is a morality aspect that doesn't sit right with me.
These places must be doing something not quite legal else they wouldn't be able to afford to pay the correct wages and tax based on such low prices.
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Money Laundering operation first, car wash second.
J4GG41 m ago

99% cash in hand.


99.99% ;).
Illegal workers are everywhere, especially in the south east, keeping the economy moving falsely forward that those reaping the rewards want.

it's a case of hear no evil see no evil.

Theres no insurance, no taxes paid, no thought for the local bona fied employer whose business is then undercut with cheap labour.

the UK economy is what also suffers, with money being sent back to Eastern Europe, yet those illegals also then claiming a concoction of benefits and receiving free healthcare for their entire family to top it all up,

Maybe you should think twice next time you want your car washed?
Your 'Outrage du jour' is almost authentic.
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There is 6 just within the 8 or so roads from where I live. They do a good job so I don't know what the problems is?
david_wavid5 m ago

There is 6 just within the 8 or so roads from where I live. They do a good …There is 6 just within the 8 or so roads from where I live. They do a good job so I don't know what the problems is?


If the workers are here legally, then they'll be gone when we exit the EU and/or enforce those new stringent curbs on 'low skill' workers from abroad, i.e. no more cheap car washes

If the workers are here illegally or if there are irregularities with payments and tax then the scale of this should warrant investigation.
Edited by: "Uranus" 7th Sep 2017
Money Laundering operation first, car wash second.
Your 'Outrage du jour' is almost authentic.
I'm guessing that they lease the premises from the owner, and are then self employed thus negating any minimum wage directives.
Edited by: "Dyslexic_Dog" 7th Sep 2017
hmmm - case solved...


They are a phenomenon of modern urban life, springing up as if from nowhere, on the sites of old petrol stations, in supermarket carparks or on disused land — somehow dodging local planning laws.

For as little as £5, they will transform your mud-spattered runabout, with its discarded crisp packets and upholstery covered in crumbs, into a gleaming chariot, pristine inside and out.

There are about 19,000 car-wash operations in Britain now, a vast, unregulated industry, employing up to 200,000 people.

Many are from Eastern Europe, Asia and Africa: some are legal entrants to this country, some not.

Some have been trafficked by gangs, tricked into deals that turn them into victims of a modern form of slavery, operating in plain sight.

Most of the cleaners who wash and polish the vehicles cannot speak English and are easily ignored by motorists in a rush — except for that moment when something happens.

On Sunday, a suspected drink-driver, smashed into five Romanian workers at a car-wash in South-East London after an alleged row as they washed his car.

One man is fighting for his life, another man and a woman were seriously injured and remain in hospital, while two others suffered minor injuries.

The incident has refocused attention on these businesses, few of which adhere to UK employment laws, and the plight of those who work there.

Dawn Frazer, of the Car Wash Advisory Service (CWAS), says only 1,000 hand car-wash businesses observe any regulatory requirements and that many staff are paid below the minimum wage, usually cash in hand. 'They do not know what their rights are,' she says.

'Very often you will find out in some way or another that they are a victim; these are the types of jobs they can actually get. There is an awful lot of organised crime — trafficking and abuse of staff.'

At one car-wash in the car park of a Tesco store in London this week, the Mail and a Romanian interpreter met Stefan (not his real name).

The 27-year-old works from 8am to 6pm every day, earning £40 per shift, but he has worked for less — £25 for 12-hour shifts at other car-washes.

'It is slavery, like 150 years ago,' he says. 'We are asked to clean hundreds of cars each day.

'We are not allowed to smoke or have breaks. Sometimes we are asked to stay for two or three hours' overtime.'

He knows his pay is illegally low but says: 'We have no choice.' His friend Marius, 25, adds: 'It is making a bit of money to send home.'

Both have partners and children in Romania where wages for unskilled workers are barely viable; about £200 a month.

'The clients normally are fine, but in terms of money we are treated as slaves,' says Stefan. 'You do get arguments, people shouting at you if you have your lunch.'

Last night a spokesman for Tesco said that that it operates a franchise system for car-washing services in its carparks.

'It is important to us that everyone associated with Tesco is treated fairly and paid in accordance with the living wage,' he said.

'We are looking seriously into these alleged breaches of the agreed franchise terms.'

While working at another car-wash, in a different part of East London, Stefan was paid for only two days after working five. When he asked for the rest he was threatened with a beating.

He says some of his co-workers became so ill due to the terrible working conditions that they had to cease work: 'It is very cold, wet all day so you are prone to getting ill. You cannot complain, otherwise they will sack you.

Read more: dailymail.co.uk/new…tml
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99% cash in hand.
It really depends how long they spend on your car. I wash my own because I want it done right and quite enjoy doing it.

If there are 4 workers on minimum wage lets say they are all 21-24 to make it simple so that is £7.05*4= £28.20 per hour

They run 2 assembly line systems with 2 on each and can wash a car in 6 minutes(seems about right from what I see) they can do 20 cars per hour at £4 is £80. So now they need to cover their overheads with £51.80 per hour, in an 8 hour day assuming probably 50% downtime they will make £320 and it will cost them £225.20 in wages. So they need to cover their daily overheads with £94.40 per day. Seems like it can be done to me.

The above assumes(probably incorrectly) that the workers all take a wage when one of them is probably the owner who takes profits instead. I also ignored a likely 1 hour unpaid lunch for each of them daily, most likely taken when there is downtime.

The price will vary depending on how long they spend on each car and the location they are in. The owner will make a living but won't be driving around in a BMW.

PS I'm not a CA.
J4GG41 m ago

99% cash in hand.


99.99% ;).
If anyone actually cares gov.uk/gov…ion
Illegal workers are everywhere, especially in the south east, keeping the economy moving falsely forward that those reaping the rewards want.

it's a case of hear no evil see no evil.

Theres no insurance, no taxes paid, no thought for the local bona fied employer whose business is then undercut with cheap labour.

the UK economy is what also suffers, with money being sent back to Eastern Europe, yet those illegals also then claiming a concoction of benefits and receiving free healthcare for their entire family to top it all up,

Maybe you should think twice next time you want your car washed?
coathanger1 m ago

Illegal workers are everywhere, especially in the south east, keeping the …Illegal workers are everywhere, especially in the south east, keeping the economy moving falsely forward that those reaping the rewards want.it's a case of hear no evil see no evil. Theres no insurance, no taxes paid, no thought for the local bona fied employer whose business is then undercut with cheap labour.the UK economy is what also suffers, with money being sent back to Eastern Europe, yet those illegals also then claiming a concoction of benefits and receiving free healthcare for their entire family to top it all up,Maybe you should think twice next time you want your car washed?



Maybe you should think twice before watching the next channel 5 documentary.
CoeK13 m ago

It really depends how long they spend on your car. I wash my own because …It really depends how long they spend on your car. I wash my own because I want it done right and quite enjoy doing it.If there are 4 workers on minimum wage lets say they are all 21-24 to make it simple so that is £7.05*4= £28.20 per hourThey run 2 assembly line systems with 2 on each and can wash a car in 6 minutes(seems about right from what I see) they can do 20 cars per hour at £4 is £80. So now they need to cover their overheads with £51.80 per hour, in an 8 hour day assuming probably 50% downtime they will make £320 and it will cost them £225.20 in wages. So they need to cover their daily overheads with £94.40 per day. Seems like it can be done to me.The above assumes(probably incorrectly) that the workers all take a wage when one of them is probably the owner who takes profits instead. I also ignored a likely 1 hour unpaid lunch for each of them daily, most likely taken when there is downtime.The price will vary depending on how long they spend on each car and the location they are in. The owner will make a living but won't be driving around in a BMW.PS I'm not a CA.


Completely avoiding all the on costs any reputable business would incur.

insurance, business rates, maintenance, inspections and taxation, not then forgetting utilities and supplies etc.
coathanger4 m ago

Completely avoiding all the on costs any reputable business would …Completely avoiding all the on costs any reputable business would incur.insurance, business rates, maintenance, inspections and taxation, not then forgetting utilities and supplies etc.



You understand the word overheads right?

The only thing I did miss out because I have no idea how much it would cost is cleaning consumables. Bulk buying would probably make this very low compared to wages.
Edited by: "CoeK" 7th Sep 2017
CoeK1 m ago

You understand the word overheads right?


You understand you totally missed out the proprietors wedge right
coathanger1 m ago

You understand you totally missed out the proprietors wedge right



Ok so first I missed out the overheads, but I didn't since I mentioned them. Now I have missed out the owners profit except I didn't as I mentioned that too.

What next? I forgot to mention wages?
Edited by: "CoeK" 7th Sep 2017
Most probably class themselves as "Self employed" all topped up by benefits at a guess.

Never used one & never will.
OldEnglish3 m ago

Most probably class themselves as "Self employed" all topped up by …Most probably class themselves as "Self employed" all topped up by benefits at a guess. Never used one & never will.



Could be self employed and just rent time. Similar to some hairdressers.
CoeK11 m ago

Ok so first I missed out the overheads, but I didn't since I mentioned …Ok so first I missed out the overheads, but I didn't since I mentioned them. Now I have missed out the owners profit except I didn't as I mentioned that too.What next? I forgot to mention wages?


"Probably incorrectly" is what you rightfully said.

Firstly the gangmaster is not going to have a sponge in his hand, he's the one taking one part of the cut doing none of the work.

Where's costings for their accommodation, the taxes and insurance of that accommodation, the rates etc?

Your wage costs completely ignores NI and Holiday entitlement, all adding further costs for reputable businesss. How about training costs? How about uniform or personal protective equipment? How about the administration costs all reputable businesses incur to maintain records etc? It goes on..
Not really to fussed to be honest, they do a grand job on my vehicle for a fraction of the price I would pay doing it myself.

Most of the workers don't speak english, they do understand me when I ask for my air freshener tho.
CoeK10 m ago

Could be self employed and just rent time. Similar to some hairdressers.


There must be at least 10 blokes at the one closest to me & they're all sitting in a hut at 6am in the morning, waiting to start washing cars. Can't see how they can make enough to survive.
Edited by: "OldEnglish" 7th Sep 2017
coathanger34 m ago

"Probably incorrectly" is what you rightfully said.Firstly the gangmaster …"Probably incorrectly" is what you rightfully said.Firstly the gangmaster is not going to have a sponge in his hand, he's the one taking one part of the cut doing none of the work. Where's costings for their accommodation, the taxes and insurance of that accommodation, the rates etc? Your wage costs completely ignores NI and Holiday entitlement, all adding further costs for reputable businesss. How about training costs? How about uniform or personal protective equipment? How about the administration costs all reputable businesses incur to maintain records etc? It goes on..


You really need to go and google what overheads are.

When a business makes as little money as a car wash the person who owns it probably works for himself.

Rent is an overhead.
Rates is an overhead.
Uniform probably not supplied but overhead.
Training almost negligible but overhead.
liability insurance is an overhead.
Admin is an overhead but how much admin will it really require? The owner will do that themselves.
NI will need to be added to the wages, would be about £40 per employee per week. so £160 a week, or £120 if you assume the owner is a worker.
I don't know what you mean by accommodation, why would a car wash pay for an employees accommodation.
OldEnglish31 m ago

There must be at least 10 blokes at the one closest to me & they're all …There must be at least 10 blokes at the one closest to me & they're all sitting in a hut at 6am in the morning, waiting to start washing cars. Can't see how they can make enough to survive.



Maybe they are dead and nobody noticed.
Reminds me of the guy who used to run between cars at traffic lights trying to clean windscreens. I often wonder where he is buried
CoeK6 m ago

You really need to go and google what overheads are.When a business makes …You really need to go and google what overheads are.When a business makes as little money as a car wash the person who owns it probably works for himself.Rent is an overhead.Rates is an overhead.Uniform probably not supplied but overhead.Training almost negligible but overhead.liability insurance is an overhead.Admin is an overhead but how much admin will it really require? The owner will do that themselves.NI will need to be added to the wages, would be about £40 per employee per week. so £160 a week, or £120 if you assume the owner is a worker.I don't know what you mean by accommodation, why would a car wash pay for an employees accommodation.


...please continue.

How about downtime caused by weather? You mention a 50% operational estimate, have you ever visited a car wash on a rainy day? Are these workers paid per car, or what happens on washout days, or weeks even? Where are those costs factored in?

Put simply, these here today gone tomorrow businesses are not run legitimately.

Apparently you appear to be their accountant.
coathanger1 h, 1 m ago

Illegal workers are everywhere, especially in the south east, keeping the …Illegal workers are everywhere, especially in the south east, keeping the economy moving falsely forward that those reaping the rewards want.it's a case of hear no evil see no evil. Theres no insurance, no taxes paid, no thought for the local bona fied employer whose business is then undercut with cheap labour.the UK economy is what also suffers, with money being sent back to Eastern Europe, yet those illegals also then claiming a concoction of benefits and receiving free healthcare for their entire family to top it all up,Maybe you should think twice next time you want your car washed?


But they're very good at washing the car. The car wash at the petrol stations don't come close, they leave my wheels dirty still.
coathanger5 m ago

...please continue.How about downtime caused by weather? You mention a 50% …...please continue.How about downtime caused by weather? You mention a 50% operational estimate, have you ever visited a car wash on a rainy day? Are these workers paid per car, or what happens on washout days, or weeks even? Where are those costs factored in?Put simply, these here today gone tomorrow businesses are not run legitimately. Apparently you appear to be their accountant.



50% was an estimate for downtime which I pretty clearly stated. I wash my own car as I also clearly stated. They aren't paid by car unless they are self employed. On days where they don't work they wont be paid, I would assume zero hours contracts. Unfortunetly overhead costs will be due regardless.

I'm not their accountant no, I'm not a CA which I clearly stated(there is a theme going on here)

Put simply you can't claim one way or the other what these businesses are as you can't even read half of what I type and the other half you don't understand.

I have to say my opinion was never high but it couldn't get lower now.
J4GG45 m ago

But they're very good at washing the car. The car wash at the petrol …But they're very good at washing the car. The car wash at the petrol stations don't come close, they leave my wheels dirty still.



They are better than those car washes at the petrol station, but not by much.
Lol so call the cops/immigration and tell them how to do their job.
Predikuesi37 m ago

Reminds me of the guy who used to run between cars at traffic lights …Reminds me of the guy who used to run between cars at traffic lights trying to clean windscreens. I often wonder where he is buried


Did he used to say "tips only guvnor"?
"Don't get me wrong, I fully take advantage of the low pricing, but there is a morality aspect that doesn't sit right with me."

Well I'd say your morals are over-ridden by penny pinching. In which case why even ask about it?
Edited by: "Oneday77" 7th Sep 2017
Oneday776 h, 35 m ago

"Don't get me wrong, I fully take advantage of the low pricing, but there …"Don't get me wrong, I fully take advantage of the low pricing, but there is a morality aspect that doesn't sit right with me."Well I'd say your morals are over-ridden by penny pionching. In which case why even ask about it?


What he means is, he doesn't mind if someone sleeps rough under a bridge & gets beaten with a big stick if they show up for work 5mins late.


As long as his alloys are spotless & he could eat his dinner off his bonnet.
Edited by: "OldEnglish" 7th Sep 2017
Oneday779 m ago

"Don't get me wrong, I fully take advantage of the low pricing, but there …"Don't get me wrong, I fully take advantage of the low pricing, but there is a morality aspect that doesn't sit right with me."Well I'd say your morals are over-ridden by penny pionching. In which case why even ask about it?


Purely to trigger responses like the one below and hope that they generate an entirely irrelevant and divisive discussion.


coathanger1 h, 54 m ago

Illegal workers are everywhere, especially in the south east, keeping the …Illegal workers are everywhere, especially in the south east, keeping the economy moving falsely forward that those reaping the rewards want.it's a case of hear no evil see no evil. Theres no insurance, no taxes paid, no thought for the local bona fied employer whose business is then undercut with cheap labour.the UK economy is what also suffers, with money being sent back to Eastern Europe, yet those illegals also then claiming a concoction of benefits and receiving free healthcare for their entire family to top it all up,Maybe you should think twice next time you want your car washed?

Don't worry, Brexit will take care of this.
I just wonder why the government haven't already moved to take action against things like this that are entirely within it's control, like non-EU immigration?
At least it keeps our police and immigration staff gainfully employed, paying tax and preparing for all the illegals they may have to report in the future,

getwestlondon.co.uk/new…717
Cr0m9 m ago

Don't worry, Brexit will take care of this. I just wonder why the …Don't worry, Brexit will take care of this. I just wonder why the government haven't already moved to take action against things like this that are entirely within it's control, like non-EU immigration?


Try googling immigration staff raid ________.
Have fun.
dailymail.co.uk/new…tml

Some of these people are forced to work..

I also know of some more recent cases in Nottingham. Just like prostitution if a demand exists then bad people will exploit others.
You can either finance those bad people getting your car washed for £3.50 or you can check out a car wash or use an older more established one.. What ever happened to Bob a job.
Edited by: "Dawsy" 7th Sep 2017
Dawsy4 m ago

What ever happened to Bob a job.


Bob was undercut by Lazlo is the impression I get from these type of threads.
shadey1215 m ago

Try googling immigration staff raid ________.Have fun.



I don't see how that will help, apparently these outfits are everywhere, just read the posts above.
Why haven't the government done anything about it?
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